Something to play towards or un-necessary forced time sink

[Clave Dark 5]

I'm torn on this.  I existed and played the game back in the day and lived just fine with gated stuff, but to gate stuff today I'd only be willing to let it be.... stuff I don't care much about.  Like accolades: nice but one can certainly play without them.  Which of course ultimately means it's pointless gating I suppose.  So I guess I don't want gated stuff.

[ShardWarrior]

17 hours ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Do you feel there should be in game goals/rewards created by the devs that players can play towards and helps keep engagement, or do you feel that it's a way devs force players to keep playing by 'locking' content behind gameplay?

In a live game that relies on players playing and more importantly paying longer, yes.  Here, no.

[Xeres]

It depends.  Cosmetic only items I'm not a fan of a steep unlock requirement.  Things that increase the capabilities of my character, yes.  This is to say I am a big fan of the gear treadmill, with the requirement to unlock said gear (or whatever the item(s) is/are which increases your character's capabilities) should be proportional to the strength of the item. 

 

But like was said, there should be multiple avenues to get these items.  Drop and either a crafting requirement or purchasable by in-game currency.  Whether you purchase the item, materials and recipe(s) to craft the items or any other alternative means than just mere RNG while faming for that item to drop.

[Marine X]

I guess I am of 2 Minds on this after having read through all the Posts.

 

I enjoyed it when, through hard work, I achieved something, and was rewarded. I would often switch my Badge Title to show off my new Shiny or wear the Costume Piece for a while. It gave me the feeling that I had accomplished something Meaningful.

I like Homecoming, but it does seem like a lot of people have forgot about how that felt and what it meant to them. It is not the same when you get a Participation Trophy.

 

Homecoming is the version of the game we have. A portion of the Community never played the original game and would not want to have to deal with the way the game originally worked. Others are simply happy with the current situation. I am content with the new normal, I can always find a way to challenge myself, even if there is nothing to commemorate it. I still have Badges to get, can raise the difficulty if I choose, and plenty of things to do.

[Shred Monkey]

The answer to that question depends on what kind of game you're making.   Is this an open world role-playing GAME or an open world role-playing SANDBOX?  At launch it was an RPG, but In it's current state, I would say it's a superhero sandbox.  

 

Games should have power-increasing reward locked behind content gates (and never RL time gates or random loot-box gates).  Aesthetic content such as costumes and customization should be available from level 1 (or behind pay walls because most games do actually need to make money).

 

 

 

[CrudeVileTerror]

@Marine X, I don't think there are many in "no grind camp" who -forgot- the feeling you're describing.

I would suggest we either never experienced it, and never can, because of whatever personal reasons we have,

or

We remember it just fine, and we don't think that it's worthwhile in the grand scheme of things.

[tidge]

19 hours ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Do you feel there should be in game goals/rewards created by the devs that players can play towards and helps keep engagement, or do you feel that it's a way devs force players to keep playing by 'locking' content behind gameplay?

I don't understand why the Homecoming game would implement (more) gates. The game still HAS gates, it's just that without a paywall/micro-transactions they aren't as obvious. A simple example are accolades: each of them still has an element of 'grind' to them, and several of them benefit the character that unlocks them.

 

The situation from my PoV is that the game has grind if you want it (ehem, Incarnate content), and plenty of ways to speed through the various 'grinds'. I can't imagine that any new content wouldn't immediately be exactly like all the other content in the game.

[Omega-202]

43 minutes ago, Marine X said:

It gave me the feeling that I had accomplished something Meaningful.

 

I like Homecoming, but it does seem like a lot of people have forgot about how that felt and what it meant to them. It is not the same when you get a Participation Trophy.

A) You didn't accomplish something meaningful.  It's a videogame.

 

B) I haven't forgotten.  I have just grown up and realized I wasted hour upon hours of my teens and 20's chasing shiny baubles that didn't actually matter, doing videogame tasks I didn't enjoy, all for the dopamine hit you're describing.  

 

The fact that you're denigrating "participation trophies", as if videogame accomplishments are something to be proud of instead, is frightening.  

[Vulpoid]

If you want to play, play.
If you want to leave, leave.
But.... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop worrying about how or why other people are playing or not playing!
There must be 10 or more threads now discussing other player's motivations, Are they leaving?  Are there enough reasons for new players to join? Will people stay?
JUST STOP. PLEASE!

Play the game. Don't play the game.  Whatever.
I suppose I should take my own advice and not read stuff if I don't want to. Or do. Or whatever.
OK. I will go now,

 

[Luminara]

19 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

A) You didn't accomplish something meaningful.  It's a videogame.

 

Unfortunately, you're not empowered to determine what is or isn't meaningful for anyone but yourself.

 

21 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

The fact that you're denigrating "participation trophies", as if videogame accomplishments are something to be proud of instead, is frightening.

 

Leadership skills, the ability to follow directions precisely, commitment to a task, dedication to a group, attention to detail, all things which are considered notable characteristics on a résumé, and it's not rare for people to refer to their accomplishments in video games on their résumés these days, especially considering that they're looking for jobs amongst folk who also grew up playing video games.  We're no longer confined to real world exploits or feats to display our skills and abilities, and it's not considered the same as participation trophies when people feel proud of doing something in a video game.  Leveling up is the participation trophy in Co*.  One doesn't even have to play to accomplish that, just log in, join a team and put someone on follow.  Logging in is the participation trophy in other games, games which have auto-play features or which hand out rewards simply for having the game installed.  Actual accomplishments are something to be proud of, something to be recognized for doing, even if some people scoff, because games have been in the world long enough for that to happen.

 

This is another of those things which you have no jurisdiction to determine the value of for others.  Sorry, but that's life.  Progress, for the better or worse, has made this reality, and we can either recognize it and accept it, or ignore it and be left behind.

[Hero_of_Light]

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

In a live game that relies on players playing and more importantly paying longer, yes.  Here, no.

So players playing more and playing longer doesn't matter in CoH?

 

Maybe it's just me wishing for the game to grow

[Omega-202]

7 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Unfortunately, you're not empowered to determine what is or isn't meaningful for anyone but yourself.

 

 

Leadership skills, the ability to follow directions precisely, commitment to a task, dedication to a group, attention to detail, all things which are considered notable characteristics on a résumé, and it's not rare for people to refer to their accomplishments in video games on their résumés these days, especially considering that they're looking for jobs amongst folk who also grew up playing video games.  We're no longer confined to real world exploits or feats to display our skills and abilities, and it's not considered the same as participation trophies when people feel proud of doing something in a video game.  Leveling up is the participation trophy in Co*.  One doesn't even have to play to accomplish that, just log in, join a team and put someone on follow.  Logging in is the participation trophy in other games, games which have auto-play features or which hand out rewards simply for having the game installed.  Actual accomplishments are something to be proud of, something to be recognized for doing, even if some people scoff, because games have been in the world long enough for that to happen.

 

This is another of those things which you have no jurisdiction to determine the value of for others.  Sorry, but that's life.  Progress, for the better or worse, has made this reality, and we can either recognize it and accept it, or ignore it and be left behind.

I used to believe this, but having seen how it plays out in the real world, it really doesn't shake out like that.  I've worked with recruiters at big firms who told me that people have lost opportunities for putting gaming related items on their resumes, and having been on the interviewer side, there's a pattern of behavior for those people that is predictive of them not working out at the companies I've been at.  If its not a gaming related position, and you don't have more than enough accomplishments outside of gaming to fill your 2 pages, you should reassess your qualifications.  

 

I've long held my tongue on these boards beacuse I like unwinding every few days in game and I feel like most of you are really genuinely good people, but most of you really do seem to be living in a bubble that doesn't reflect the world at large.  It's easy to fall into online enclaves and ech chambers, and it seems like an unsettling number of people here have done so.  

[Hero_of_Light]

8 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

I used to believe this, but having seen how it plays out in the real world, it really doesn't shake out like that.  I've worked with recruiters at big firms who told me that people have lost opportunities for putting gaming related items on their resumes, and having been on the interviewer side, there's a pattern of behavior for those people that is predictive of them not working out at the companies I've been at.  If its not a gaming related position, and you don't have more than enough accomplishments outside of gaming to fill your 2 pages, you should reassess your qualifications.  

 

I've long held my tongue on these boards beacuse I like unwinding every few days in game and I feel like most of you are really genuinely good people, but most of you really do seem to be living in a bubble that doesn't reflect the world at large.  It's easy to fall into online enclaves and ech chambers, and it seems like an unsettling number of people here have done so.  

Having been a manager of a large Verizon retailer, I Don't fully agree.

 

Sure if it's only gaming stuff then I would do a phone interview and ask more questions. 

 

If someone had some that had shown dedication, leadership, or other potential qualities we were looking for and then had the people skills to explain how the gaming related accomplishments would help them on the job, why not concider them?

[Solarverse]

12 hours ago, MTeague said:

It's roleplay-vs-game for my own internal headcanon for each character.

Is that anything like headmovies?
 

 

[ShardWarrior]

29 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

So players playing more and playing longer doesn't matter in CoH?

 

Maybe it's just me wishing for the game to grow

You are assuming grinding for unlocks is the only means for the game to grow.  More actual content, especially for level 50+, is going to do more for longevity than anything else in my opinion.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I was today years old when I learned that some people put videogames on their CV.

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I was today years old when I learned that some people put videogames on their CV.

One legal recruiter my law firm works with said he has a filter set up to autoreject CVs with certain key words.  One of which is "videogame".  

[Darmian]

I've had gaming content on a Resumé/CV.  Just not videogaming content.  Running a convention, bookings, staff management, sponsor wrangling, that sort of malarkey. Ok, it's the accounts side of things and you could argue it's NOT gaming, but it is though LOL.

 

Like many a thing it's all about presentation.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Darmian

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You are assuming grinding for unlocks is the only means for the game to grow.  More actual content, especially for level 50+, is going to do more for longevity than anything else in my opinion.

 

Branching content.  Content which changes depending on which decision the player makes.  Each run could lead to different outcomes, different follow-up missions, different endings.  Do it one way and you're given a certain mission, but one or more other missions are closed off.  Like saving a hostage or letting the bad guys take him/her, which could lead to repelling an assault by the bad guys to reclaim the hostage, or dealing with the repercussions of his/her capture, or a third option which sends you to recover the hostage.

 

A lot of the existing content could be redesigned along branching paths, with the addition of content to create suitable starting, ending or middle points.  Or rewriting parts of existing content and linking it as branches.  It would just take some creativity and proper flagging.

[Darmian]

Just now, Luminara said:

 

Branching content.  Content which changes depending on which decision the player makes.  Each run could lead to different outcomes, different follow-up missions, different endings.  Do it one way and you're given a certain mission, but one or more other missions are closed off.  Like saving a hostage or letting the bad guys take him/her, which could lead to repelling an assault by the bad guys to reclaim the hostage, or dealing with the repercussions of his/her capture, or a third option which sends you to recover the hostage.

 

A lot of the existing content could be redesigned along branching paths, with the addition of content to create suitable starting, ending or middle points.  Or rewriting parts of existing content and linking it as branches.  It would just take some creativity and proper flagging.

Some attempt at this please ^^^

[Omega-202]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Branching content.  Content which changes depending on which decision the player makes.  Each run could lead to different outcomes, different follow-up missions, different endings.  Do it one way and you're given a certain mission, but one or more other missions are closed off.  Like saving a hostage or letting the bad guys take him/her, which could lead to repelling an assault by the bad guys to reclaim the hostage, or dealing with the repercussions of his/her capture, or a third option which sends you to recover the hostage.

 

A lot of the existing content could be redesigned along branching paths, with the addition of content to create suitable starting, ending or middle points.  Or rewriting parts of existing content and linking it as branches.  It would just take some creativity and proper flagging.

All of that is more content.  That's great.  If the resources exist, that should be something to add.  I fully agree.

 

But paper thin "carrot on a stick" mechanics like Hero is proposing is in a whole different realm.  

[Darmian]

Sure, a costume piece or merits or a badge, I like getting that, but for someone who likes to play for story I'm happy to finish an arc and have a think about it, Was that good? Bad? Do I really now want to throw Westin Phipps into the Arachnoid pit in Grandville, or would that sully them since they are obviously superior creatures to him, all that sort of thing.  Good content can be like a good book/movie/radio play/TT RPG, and that's what my little goals are.

 

More content indeed.  From 1 to 50.

 

[Solarverse]

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Branching content.  Content which changes depending on which decision the player makes.  Each run could lead to different outcomes, different follow-up missions, different endings.  Do it one way and you're given a certain mission, but one or more other missions are closed off.  Like saving a hostage or letting the bad guys take him/her, which could lead to repelling an assault by the bad guys to reclaim the hostage, or dealing with the repercussions of his/her capture, or a third option which sends you to recover the hostage.

 

A lot of the existing content could be redesigned along branching paths, with the addition of content to create suitable starting, ending or middle points.  Or rewriting parts of existing content and linking it as branches.  It would just take some creativity and proper flagging.

Kind of like a secret path book. I like this idea.

[Hero_of_Light]

21 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Branching content.  Content which changes depending on which decision the player makes.  Each run could lead to different outcomes, different follow-up missions, different endings.  Do it one way and you're given a certain mission, but one or more other missions are closed off.  Like saving a hostage or letting the bad guys take him/her, which could lead to repelling an assault by the bad guys to reclaim the hostage, or dealing with the repercussions of his/her capture, or a third option which sends you to recover the hostage.

 

A lot of the existing content could be redesigned along branching paths, with the addition of content to create suitable starting, ending or middle points.  Or rewriting parts of existing content and linking it as branches.  It would just take some creativity and proper flagging.

A great example of 'gated' content that I would be totally excited for.

[Hero_of_Light]

20 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

All of that is more content.  That's great.  If the resources exist, that should be something to add.  I fully agree.

 

But paper thin "carrot on a stick" mechanics like Hero is proposing is in a whole different realm.  

I don't think the example I gave of a story arc is that way; neither was my original post.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Hero_of_Light