Squishies Epic Armors grant 3 Mag Protection?

[Apparition]

5 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

That's reasonable in cost. I didn't look at the P2W vendor because I looked in the Auction House first. It should probably be removed from the auction house, actually. It sounds like it was something that you could buy there but was moved to P2W.

 

But I'll note that it still doesn't grant any mezz protection, even from that description. Which was stated it did. At less than a million a pop, if it granted mezz protection people would be paying for 8 hours of protection on squishies in a heartbeat.

 

Mez protection is in Defense Amplifier from the P2W vendor, not Survival.

[Hyperstrike]

And I apologize.

It's the Defense amp that provides the Mez protection.

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Defense_Amplifier

Also available from P2W.

This is what I get for following up on legitimate argument with a flubbed factoid in it.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Hyperstrike

[Monos King]

2 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

Mez protection is in Defense Amplifier from the P2W vendor, not Survival.

@arthurh35353 Ooooh that ones my bad, I mispoke. Definitely defense amplifer. What's your global, I'll send you 10m to purchase the right ones.

[AerialAssault]

Literally what they're for. If you don't have one on hand, that's very much a You problem.

[arthurh35353]

16 minutes ago, Monos King said:

 

Do this for your sake!!

Actually, I finally found it. And I was looking for a good while.

 

And good heavens is that expensive. 2.5 million per hour? I'll need to mule my farmer Brute tank just to have enough hours on my squishy characters to be worth it.

 

So it already exists, its just expensive. So that's saying it's doable and desired, but having *less* protection in your epic armors is somehow bad, other than the need to make squishies pay for something that the non-squishies get for free. So they can't afford the expensive IOs.

 

I'm not actually understanding why the negativity against +3 mag protection in armors then.

Edited November 21, 2020 by arthurh35353

[Monos King]

13 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

So it already exists, its just expensive. So that's saying it's doable and desired, but having *less* protection in your epic armors is somehow bad, other than the need to make squishies pay for something that the non-squishies get for free. So they can't afford the expensive IOs.

Well, to that I direct you to what I said before about means of dealing with mez. Like I said, there are strengths and weaknesses to playing certain ATs. To make a long story short, you aren't entitled to any degree of mez protection playing a squishy because that's one of their attributes with their role in mind, and even so you can still receive protection from various different sources. It's up to you to invest in them, and making it essentially guaranteed in the form of armor is both too strong when paired with some of the other means available, and really just not appropriate to begin with. At the end of the day, you're a squishy, not a tank. Don't know what else to say but that.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Monos King
Typo

[Vanden]

43 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

And good heavens is that expensive. 2.5 million per hour? I'll need to mule my farmer Brute tank just to have enough hours on my squishy characters to be worth it.

The price goes up as your character levels up.

 

And just to point it out, because I don't think anyone has yet, every Blaster secondary gets some minor protection to at least one kind of mez in i27 (a few already have that much).

Edited November 21, 2020 by Vanden

[Monos King]

20 minutes ago, Vanden said:

And just to point it out, because I don't think anyone has yet, every Blaster secondary gets some minor protection to at least one kind of mez in i27 (a few already have that much).

Most do, yeah. Devices, mental, electricity, and temporal are the only ones that do not get some type of mez prot. Blasters get all that going for them, and defenders do too in the form of their AoE toggle protections.

[America's Angel]

Adding stun protection to Acrobatics would be a good idea IMO.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

So it already exists, its just expensive. So that's saying it's doable and desired, but having *less* protection in your epic armors is somehow bad, other than the need to make squishies pay for something that the non-squishies get for free. So they can't afford the expensive IOs.

The "non squishies" have to get into melee range in order to do anything. Which is why they have mez protection built into their armors.  Level one, then turn off (or don't click) your mez protection - that really *would* be a problem.

 

The squishier sorts have other means to deal with mezzers before they get mezzed, or to mitigate it.

[Doomguide2005]

Meh, guess I don't really care one way or another.  I generally deal with it through any of a gazillion ways the game now provides.  Pretty much the only time it gets annoying or frustrating is when solo (and I solo plenty, but rarely is it frustrating).  I'm not in any footrace where finishing slightly slower might ruin my fun.  Teaming for 'squishies' is the best solution by far.  Packs of us are anything but squishy.

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, AerialAssault said:

Literally what they're for. If you don't have one on hand, that's very much a You problem.

Okay, not to pick on just you as others have made this point, but this argument I find kind of silly.  Does this mean that since break frees exist that melee AT's don't need mez protection either?  Defense inspirations also exist, so maybe we should get rid of all defensive powers too?  Healing inspirations exist so I guess we don't need any healing or regen powers in the game?  Etc. etc.

 

As to the original idea I'd be for it or something similar, as that rubicon has already been breached.  At this point it is just a matter of if you have the influence to spend to get comprehensive mez protection (through P2W vendor) or being forced to pick clarion as your incarnate.   

 

Something even more on point, Controllers already have something close to this very suggestion (Indomitable Will in psi epic pool).  So why not give at least one similar option to at least one of the epic pools to defenders, corrupters, and blasters?  Why do only controllers get it?

[Monos King]

13 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Something even more on point, Controllers already have something close to this very suggestion (Indomitable Will in psi epic pool).  So why not give at least one similar option to at least one of the epic pools to defenders, corrupters, and blasters?  Why do only controllers get it?

This is actually the first counter suggestion I made, and I believe it would work fine.

14 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Does this mean that since break frees exist that melee AT's don't need mez protection either?

No. It's been stated previously, but ranged ATs have their own means of defending against mez via the nature of their play styles, which melee classes do not. Much much more importantly, melee ATs act as tanks. It would not do for them to be getting mezzed without great effort or power on the enemies end, and thus they have a permanent source of protection. Inspirations are a convenience to help fill in for the intended weaknesses of an AT or build, which is why he stated break frees to be there for the OPs usage.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

Okay, not to pick on just you as others have made this point, but this argument I find kind of silly.  Does this mean that since break frees exist that melee AT's don't need mez protection either?  Defense inspirations also exist, so maybe we should get rid of all defensive powers too?  Healing inspirations exist so I guess we don't need any healing or regen powers in the game?  Etc. etc.

"One person choked while drinking a glass of water, so everyone in the world is drowning?"

 

I'll just say "no," "read my last post," and "this is a ridiculous counter-nonargument."

 

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

  At this point it is just a matter of if you have the influence to spend to get comprehensive mez protection (through P2W vendor) or being forced to pick clarion as your incarnate.  

I play plenty of squishies. I'm never "forced" to pick Clarion, or spend ridiculous amounts on a build. I don't generally do "builds" as it is.

 

The mez issue for squishies is not that bad. If it were, it would have been addressed more comprehensively over the near decade the game had a dedicated dev staff on live, beyond "you can combine three enhancements into one of another type."

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Actually, I finally found it. And I was looking for a good while.

 

And good heavens is that expensive. 2.5 million per hour? I'll need to mule my farmer Brute tank just to have enough hours on my squishy characters to be worth it.

 

So it already exists, its just expensive. So that's saying it's doable and desired, but having *less* protection in your epic armors is somehow bad, other than the need to make squishies pay for something that the non-squishies get for free. So they can't afford the expensive IOs.

 

I'm not actually understanding why the negativity against +3 mag protection in armors then.

If you're playing around at lowbie levels, it's cheaper to fill up to a full 8 hours at very low levels.
If you've waited into your 20's or early 30's, it's more expensive.

But a bit of judiciously vague, indifferent marketing can easily net you plenty of inf for that.

[arthurh35353]

37 minutes ago, Greycat said:

The mez issue for squishies is not that bad. If it were, it would have been addressed more comprehensively over the near decade the game had a dedicated dev staff on live, beyond "you can combine three enhancements into one of another type."

That's an interesting turn of phrase. "Not that bad." But to me that indicates it is a level of "bad" and that people do see an issue with it. It just varies from leveraging tools to spending INF sinks to counter it.

 

The biggest argument against it that I'm hearing 'it's already handled in annoying ways already'.

[Greycat]

35 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

That's an interesting turn of phrase. "Not that bad." But to me that indicates it is a level of "bad" and that people do see an issue with it. It just varies from leveraging tools to spending INF sinks to counter it.

Only if you intend to be ultra-picky on semantics.

[Force Redux]

I play mostly squishies since Beta, break frees are pretty common. P2W makes it even easier to avoid the insps you don't want on favor of the ones you do. Being mezzed is only an occasional inconvenience, IMO, not a chronic one. 

 

Would it be game breaking to add mezz? No. But the ATs are balanced around things like ranged vs. Melee, protection vs. not protection... It's the whole reason for being with the Sentinel, for example, which is the middle ground for Blasters and Scrappers. Gives up range and damage for increased protection...

Edited November 22, 2020 by Force Redux

[Hyperstrike]

50 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

That's an interesting turn of phrase. "Not that bad." But to me that indicates it is a level of "bad" and that people do see an issue with it. It just varies from leveraging tools to spending INF sinks to counter it.

 

The biggest argument against it that I'm hearing 'it's already handled in annoying ways already'.

No.  The argument you're hearing is "You ALREADY have Mez-reduction/avoidance tools.  USE THEM."
The only argument against that which we've heard is "I don't WANNA!"

[Hyperstrike]

2 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

I play mostly squishies since Beta, break frees are pretty common. P2W makes it even easier to avoid the insps you don't want on favor of the ones you do. Being mezzed is only an occasional inconvenience, IMO, not a chronic one.

Additionally, there are macros that can be built to convert other inspies into BFs.

[Hyperstrike]

54 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

That's an interesting turn of phrase. "Not that bad." But to me that indicates it is a level of "bad"

In the same way that not paying attention to a chess game and missing both check and mate is "bad".

Yes, it SUCKS at times.  But whose fault is it?

[AerialAssault]

2 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Okay, not to pick on just you as others have made this point, but this argument I find kind of silly.  Does this mean that since break frees exist that melee AT's don't need mez protection either?  Defense inspirations also exist, so maybe we should get rid of all defensive powers too?  Healing inspirations exist so I guess we don't need any healing or regen powers in the game?  Etc. etc.

 

 

Maybe it's just me but I'm against making changes to the game because some people are either too lazy or ignorant to change their playstyle to the circumstances presented to them.

[Riverdusk]

37 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

 

The biggest argument against it that I'm hearing 'it's already handled in annoying ways already'.

Pretty much, or in expensive or limiting ways.  The P2W vendor power is kind of an example of the worst most non-eglaritarian way of dealing with the whole issue.  For some they'll consider the price a huge expensive burden, for others it is a drop in the bucket.   Pay some influence and you have full comprehensive mez protection that actually even beats out some armor sets (as it also gives confuse, fear, and knockback protection that some armor sets are missing).

 

As I stated before the whole mez issue has basically been dealt with already, we've crossed that rubicon.  It is already readily available to all (also as an incarnate choice, and somewhat available in more limited form through some pool power choices).  It is also already an option for controllers in one of their epic pools.   So, we're just debating having that option added in an epic pool choice for those AT's currently missing it.   Not seeing the big deal myself, although I probably would model it on indomitable will so that it takes a separate power choice.  For those that feel "mez isn't a big deal" can simply choose to not waste a power pick on it.  I wouldn't necessarily always take it myself, but it'd be nice to have another option.

 

 

[Riverdusk]

11 minutes ago, AerialAssault said:

Maybe it's just me but I'm against making changes to the game because some people are either too lazy or ignorant to change their playstyle to the circumstances presented to them.

Okay, not sure what that has to do with what you quoted I said.  The personal degradations are also just wonderful.  🙄 

 

 

[AerialAssault]

7 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Okay, not sure what that has to do with what you quoted I said.  The personal degradations are also just wonderful.  🙄 

 

 

I don't see how it is anything less than lazy or ignorant to not use the tools given to the player to avoid the situation of being CC'd, especially when the tool in question, Break Free, is a core part of the gameplay. Hell, you have to actually pay for the privilege of not receiving them.

 

So, excuse my tone, but what I see is not a problem with the game, but a problem with someone's playstyle. Unless hard numbers can be found that show that yes, actually the AT's in question do need Mez Protection, I can't really see how the proposed change is necessary.