issue 26 Patch Notes for May 30th, 2019

[Saikochoro]

if 3 people out of 4 million disagree'd with the rest, would you say that part of the population disagree's?

 

Inventing false hyperbolic statistics to try to prove your point doesn’t help anything. It is clear that only part of the population supports the change.

[larrymcg421]

To try and clarify what I'm getting, here is what DFB offered on live:

 

Level 1-20: 100%

 

 

And now the numbers after Double XP option and DFB nerfing...

 

Level <=10: 200%

Level 11: 196%

Level 12: 192%

Level 13: 186%

Level 14: 180%

Level 15: 172%

Level 16: 162%

Level 17: 152%

Level 18: 138%

Level 19: 120%

Level >= 20: 100%

 

DFB is better now than before the Devs made any changes.

[Frakk]

Okay, but your missing the point of the hyperbolic question.

 

A very minor change is being blown out of proportion by a very small amount of people.

[jubakumbi]

Okay, but your missing the point of the hyperbolic question.

 

A very minor change is being blown out of proportion by a very small amount of people.

 

This _is_ still an MMO, right?

Every Single Change will be blown out of proportion, until there is either no game or no players.

:)

 

IMO, the drama means even less, because the drama llamas can run thier own servers, so why bring the drama, go make your own special tower and play in it.

[Captain Fabulous]

But we have certainly been forced out of it.

 

I recall you being a fun, engaging poster years ago, assuming it's the same person.

I hope that will continue, but your posts on this subject make me consider that might not happen.

 

No one is forcing you to do a damn thing.

 

If such a minor change like this at this 'stage of the game' really upsets you, then the changes that will surely get implemented, now that the retail entitiy does not have to be fed, the modding based on the vocal players might just blow your mind in over the next year.

Seriously.

 

Anyone throwing shade, getting upset, whatever term you like, over such an actual minor change, is going to be in for one hell of a ride, IMO.

Change averse players need to just run thier own servers, IMO.

 

Yes, I'm the same guy. I have no problem with change when it's rational and clearly needed. Change for the sake of change, or because someone has an agenda, is rarely ever good change. Such is the case here.

 

DFB didn't need to be changed. It was fine the way it was. XP naturally trailed off once you passed 20, which made it tedious to continue to do. With double XP one could easily get to 22 within an hour or so and in a position of having a nice selection of powers and ready to move into more enjoyable content. Nerfing it makes no sense, and accomplishes nothing. Not a single poster in favor of the change has provided even one legitimate reason why it needed to be changed, and no, "I hate seeing DFB in LFG chat" doesn't count.

 

It's not going to get people to start slogging thru low level TFs that take 2+ hours. It's not going to get people to slog thru low level story content where you're lucky to get half a level of XP in an hour of spending more time running from one end of King's Row to the other than you do fighting. All it's going to do is push people into doing 5-10 more runs of DFB than they had to do yesterday, and all for absolutely NO GOOD REASON. DFB requests in LFG chat aren't going to lessen. The ability to find people to team with in KR and SC isn't going to increase. People choose the path of least resistance, which in this case will be to continue playing DFB until they get to 22, exactly as they did before. The only thing that will change is that it will now take more runs, and more time to get there than it did yesterday.

 

This is not a change worth supporting, as it solves no problem, and accomplishes nothing.

 

And if the nerf is as minor as you claim, then why bother doing it all? Just leave it as it was. Don't fix what isn't broken. The original devs put DFB into the game for a reason -- as a fast lane to SOs for those that choose to take it.

[Saikochoro]

Okay, but your missing the point of the hyperbolic question.

 

A very minor change is being blown out of proportion by a very small amount of people.

 

The point is you don’t know how big each portion of the population is. There are many opinions not even expressed from the people that don’t post. Your assumption is that those who support vastly outnumber those who don’t. However, that is only an assumption. Therefore, the hyperbolic question serves no purpose but to falsely lead the narrative.

[PirateCrew]

I would prefer a way for players to reach level 22 quickly, if they choose, without resorting to what would typically be considered "PL services" or "multiboxing".  Various solutions would be pleasing to me.  Examples would include anything in the range from:

 

Re-adjust the DFB XP curve to only degrade from level 20-22, rather than from 10-20.  This seems the easiest to implement, and still preserves the idea of requiring some gameplay to initialize an alt to the point where real testing and slotting can begin.

 

to...

 

Create a badge for having a certain number of alts above level 22 (perhaps 10 or 20), which then enables a free "boost character to 22" option in the P2W vendor.  If this badge was per-archetype, that's fine too, with a reasonably-lowered number to match it (perhaps 2 or 3).

 

 

If some alternative to the early levels is being worked (but not yet public), I wish the DFB XP change would have been delayed until that solution was ready.

 

 

[jubakumbi]

And if the nerf is as minor as you claim, then why bother doing it all? Just leave it as it was. Don't fix what isn't broken. The original devs put DFB into the game for a reason -- as a fast lane to SOs for those that choose to take it.

 

Why do they have to justify a damn thing to you or anyone else?

Play on the server or don't, it really is just that simple.

 

This last line also shows me a great deal.

This game is no longer run by the original development team and there is no reason, at all, to follow anything they did at this point.

In point of fact, the original team made some _terrible_ choices from any objective PoV.

This code is now it's own entity to be toyed with as this team chooses.

 

Will they do things you don't like?

Obviously.

 

You have the power to not encounter anything this team, or any of the the others putting up servers, changes to the game.

 

Not a single team needs to justify anything they do with any of these servers to anyone.

 

The entire idea that these people are ours to command and dictate to is simply erroneous.

 

You can still get your SOs just fine from DFB, you simply have to run a couple more to hit 22, that's what I'll do anyway.

 

But this entire idea that any of these people have to justify anything to any of us is BS, IMO.

[Abraxus]

Yup.  All of the above!

[Saikochoro]

I would prefer a way for players to reach level 22 quickly, if they choose, without resorting to what would typically be considered "PL services" or "multiboxing".  Various solutions would be pleasing to me.  Examples would include anything in the range from:

 

Re-adjust the DFB XP curve to only degrade from level 20-22, rather than from 10-20.  This seems the easiest to implement, and still preserves the idea of requiring some gameplay to initialize an alt to the point where real testing and slotting can begin.

 

to...

 

Create a badge for having a certain number of alts above level 22 (perhaps 10 or 20), which then enables a free "boost character to 22" option in the P2W vendor.  If this badge was per-archetype, that's fine too, with a reasonably-lowered number to match it (perhaps 2 or 3).

 

 

If some alternative to the early levels is being worked (but not yet public), I wish the DFB XP change would have been delayed until that solution was ready.

 

I think a P2W boost to level 22 would be raged against honestly. The same people who have issues with power leveling would most certainly have an issue with this.

 

I personally wouldn’t mind as that would help me with all the alts I want to get into the mid levels.  Though 2-3 per AT wouldn’t be enough haha. I probably wouldn’t make any tanks. But I’d have like 15 brutes.

 

No people will just have to adapt. The devs have made their decision even if not everyone agrees.  There will always be those who disagree with any choice that is made. It can make for some good discussions, but it is rarely ever game breaking for anyone.

[Kistulot]

Might I suggest Pine Mids... that will tell you all you need to know about how powers will perform.

 

Please consider that this is only useful for how it will perform numerically, not how it will feel.

 

Experimenting with ACTUALLY using it is way more valuable.

 

 

[WanderingAries]

+1M to a seriously unexpected list of accomplishments.

[Captain Fabulous]

And if the nerf is as minor as you claim, then why bother doing it all? Just leave it as it was. Don't fix what isn't broken. The original devs put DFB into the game for a reason -- as a fast lane to SOs for those that choose to take it.

 

Why do they have to justify a damn thing to you or anyone else?

Play on the server or don't, it really is just that simple.

 

This last line also shows me a great deal.

This game is no longer run by the original development team and there is no reason, at all, to follow anything they did at this point.

In point of fact, the original team made some _terrible_ choices from any objective PoV.

This code is now it's own entity to be toyed with as this team chooses.

 

Will they do things you don't like?

Obviously.

 

You have the power to not encounter anything this team, or any of the the others putting up servers, changes to the game.

 

Not a single team needs to justify anything they do with any of these servers to anyone.

 

The entire idea that these people are ours to command and dictate to is simply erroneous.

 

You can still get your SOs just fine from DFB, you simply have to run a couple more to hit 22, that's what I'll do anyway.

 

But this entire idea that any of these people have to justify anything to any of us is BS, IMO.

 

One ad hominem attack after another, and still can't provide a single coherent point as to why this nerf was needed. My work here is done. And no, I won't get off your lawn. Make me.

[VanValdenburg]

Before the change it was way quicker to get to lvl10.

So either XP will decrease from lvl2.

Or you simply reduced the XP overall.

 

btw. thank you for all your work :)

 

[tatmia]

Loving the -KB change. Unlike the Private Server poster, I like to work with my teammates tactics and not having to deal with that very-longtime aspect is what kept me from rolling many /Storms and such.

 

-KB for storm didn’t change.  What changed was how immob powers interact with  knockdown/up/back. 

 

Most immob (tentacles being one exception) already stopped the Knockback.  What this change does - instead of stopping the Knockback, it now allows it but changes it to knockdown (the part I missed originally). 

 

This is a very good thing but will have no impact on storm defenders/MM/controllers unless they use an immob.

 

Ah, thank you Tatmia.  I read that in the patch notes and against my best intensions I overreacted and was all like..."Oh noez.  Mah Stormz, lmao."  I thank you for your kindness and clarity. :D

 

While I wasn’t upset, I also misunderstood it at first until someone else clarified it for me.  CoX community helping each other out.

[larrymcg421]

And if the nerf is as minor as you claim, then why bother doing it all? Just leave it as it was. Don't fix what isn't broken. The original devs put DFB into the game for a reason -- as a fast lane to SOs for those that choose to take it.

 

Why do they have to justify a damn thing to you or anyone else?

Play on the server or don't, it really is just that simple.

 

This last line also shows me a great deal.

This game is no longer run by the original development team and there is no reason, at all, to follow anything they did at this point.

In point of fact, the original team made some _terrible_ choices from any objective PoV.

This code is now it's own entity to be toyed with as this team chooses.

 

Will they do things you don't like?

Obviously.

 

You have the power to not encounter anything this team, or any of the the others putting up servers, changes to the game.

 

Not a single team needs to justify anything they do with any of these servers to anyone.

 

The entire idea that these people are ours to command and dictate to is simply erroneous.

 

You can still get your SOs just fine from DFB, you simply have to run a couple more to hit 22, that's what I'll do anyway.

 

But this entire idea that any of these people have to justify anything to any of us is BS, IMO.

 

One ad hominem attack after another, and still can't provide a single coherent point as to why this nerf was needed. My work here is done. And no, I won't get off your lawn. Make me.

 

Still haven't seen a coherent argument from one of the complainers about why this change hurt DFB so bad when DFB now can still level you faster than it did before the devs changed one line of code.

[Punch2Face]

The craziest thing about all of these complaints is that the nerf to DFB was very minor. In fact, with the double XP option available, the nerf of 50% just means DFB grants same XP it did before the team added that option. This is really only a nerf to people who only started playing DFB after that option was added.

 

I don't think their graph they made up of the exp gain changes is accurate at all.  I just did 3 full DFB runs with a double exp booster and I got BARELY over 3 levels (and by barely I mean like 1 bubble more) from 10-13.  That's not a 2-8% nerf like the graph says.  That's like a 60%+ nerf.  Not saying I'm for or against the changes; I'm still relatively new.  But I will say that the graph that was posted explaining the change in the exp gain curve is wrong.  And very wrong.

[Flashtoo]

Hey all, huge hugs and you're welcome for the graphical changes :) I'm really happy you're so pleased with them!

 

 

If you've got someone doing this kind of thing now,  any chance they can look at the impervium katana skin for dual blades? It currently seems to be missing all its texturing.

 

I looked at this and it appears that the issue might be that the model used for Dual Blades is pointed at the wrong texture file, specifically the one that's used for the blade of the normal katana. The texture obviously exists (as seen on the model used for Katana and Ninja Blade), it's just a question of getting the game to see it - there's nothing for the texture artists themselves to do; it's fixing a pointer in the model itself that needs to happen for this to be fixed.

 

About make up that needs fixing. Would you consider making a SECOND version of those that does NOT include lip coloring, some time in the future? I rarely want the same color on the lips as I do on the eyes.

 

Those textures would be trivially easy to create and the question just becomes 'Can we add new color masks to the menus yet.' When the answer is yes, I can do that.

[IAmTheRad]

So, uh, how do I enable the PhysX quality physics?

[StarseedWarrior]

Wow thank you homecoming team, I greatly appreciate you guys, what a massive update, doing this out of your free time and everything, I hope you guys stay passionate your truly amazing people thank you again for giving us a chance to play cox again and making it even better.

[Knightward]

It might be odd of me to say, but all the back and forth about DFB makes me nostalgic.  I wondered if Homecoming could truly feel like the CoH of old, but it's clear now that it does.  DOOOOOOOOOOOM has returned.

[Datjusticebro]

Hey I know that I didn't get on the bandwagon sooner, but the changes to the DFB seem to have effected many in a way that they want to quit the server, or find something else to do, and the hype of getting 5 billion alts to 50 seems to be what they're after.

 

Now, this isn't to say that people like this sometimes are MMO butterflies, (guilty myself of a little bit of flitting between MMO's), but perhaps we should keep the playerbase strong rather than having it dwindle out to the hardcore players before it really takes off.

 

More people = more groups, more groups=more content that you want to play. I would run 1-2 DFB, run around and do radio missions, and then jump back into DFB's to do my 50 character, and I have only one (altaholism hurts). But more than anything, I wanted to get back into DFB for two reasons,

 

1: my character was optimized for the level 1-10 content that was available there, and I knew how to build my spec for that content. I had maneuvers and assault, a healing skill, and an aoe damage skill. I liked farming this content because I knew how to play it, knew how to deal with it, and knew that I could lead if I was stuck at the forefront, and could assist newbies in their endeavors to know what the game was like.

 

2: I liked the playerbase when people start out on their character and they're like WTF is this!? I can do an electric/fire scrapper and blow mobs up! Neat, but I want to do a Rad/fire, so let me make an alt RQ and i'll BRB in the next round or two. It was fun to see the iterations of fledgeling heroes bud up, without making a new character myself.

 

Something that I think that the devs might want to take a look into is a scale sortof like this:

 

 

DFB EXP

Levels 1-10 Lvl 15-20 Lvl20+                                        EXP Bonus

-------------                                                                100%

                -----------                                                  75%

                              -------------------------------------  50%

 

DIB (Drowning in blood) EXP

Levels 15-25 Lvl 26-35  Lvl35+                                        EXP Bonus

-------------                                                                100%

                -----------                                                  75%

                              -------------------------------------  50%

 

 

(Insert Level 25 TF here (because I don't know of one)) EXP

Levels 25-45 Lvl 46-48 Lvl48+                                        EXP Bonus

-------------                                                                100%

                -----------                                                  75%

                              -------------------------------------  50%

 

(Insert Level 45 TF here (because I don't know of one)) EXP

Levels 45-50                                                                EXP Bonus

-------------                                                                100%

 

 

Incarnate trials should have a better reward system than farming the merits on a mothership run, yes, so that needs to be BUFFED rather than nerfing something as well.

 

We're trying to play the game our way, but also add a little variety, and it would be awesome to go with one group through something (like anything) like DFB all the way from 1-50 if at all possible.

 

There was a system in Dark Age of Camelot that did this called 'instance dungeons' where if you got in with a group, it scaled the exp, mob difficulty, and rewards with the group size, but you got a BASE of 100% increased experience. This was when it was limping along to help boost the character base, and it did for a very very long time.

 

People want to play their way, and so this might be a good suggestion to mitigate some of the people who want to roll 50 alts, and also get rid of a few key issues:

 

1: DFB spam sucks

2: People only running DFB, it's boring. we get it.

3: We want variety!

4: we want to play the game our way, and get EXP in our own way, because let's just face it, most of the playerbase is either millenial or wants to relive their glory days of having 30 level 50 toons and being able to PL based on the situation and what their SG needs at the time for Endgame Content.

5: it still won't limit the people that want to do the story missions, (which I am currently doing and getting a kick in the pants out of, I love the storytelling aspect of this game, don't change.)

 

 

 

 

TLDR: at least look at my table and it makes the rest of the block of text make sense.

[Primantis]

I’m happy about DFB. God I hate running as a level 5 for 5-6 runs to get to 22 with every character with every other option just being inefficient in comparison...

 

The DFB nerf is foolish at best and highly counterproductive at worst.

*snip't*

 

It also sets a Dangerous precendent for other, long-running massively efficient XP/Inf farm TF's & trials like ITF. Especially since as far as i can find, this was a full-on stealth nerf to the Trial SPECIFICALLY to stop the "DFB to 20, -REDACTED- to 35. ITF 35-50" Loop a lot of us have been doing to power up alts.

 

 

 

This is frankly my biggest concern at this point. The DFB nerf itself isn't that big of a deal to me. It is what it implies. I am fully expecting a nerf to Veteran level rewards at this point, and god knows what else. Timers on all PI portal missions too? They are catering to the whiners and nerf herders, that's what worries me.

 

But I shall continue to play and enjoy the game the best I can.

[JayboH]

Yep those nerfs weren't needed or wanted.

 

'Play other stuff or else.'

 

Terrible logic.

[Crysis]

So you're mad they took the "I win" aspect out of the game. You're upset because they made it still WAY more rewarding than Live ever was. You don't like playing with people who have strategies for playing together and want to do what you want to do when you want to do it regardless of how it affects others... got it. Well have fun on your private server. I have no desire to play in your sandbox seems like it's just an "I win" server which would get old real fast.

 

Actually, I said exactly what I meant.  I’m highly disappointed.  Mad would mean I’m a bit emotional over a game mechanic.  Which I’m not.

 

I don’t like playing with anyone who attempts to force me to play “their way or the highway.”  Which is basically what you just outlined here and in a few other posts in this thread.  I have the highway model well within my grasp (as does everyone).  And I get you don’t want an “I win” button, nor do you prefer to level quickly.  That’s fine, I’ve no intention nor desire to prevent you from playing however you wish.  I once leveled a blaster wayyyyyy back in like issue 5 days from 1-50 totally solo and via missions (not street sweeping) just to prove to myself I could when everyone was complaining that blasters were far too squishy to survive.  It was darn annoying at times, and almost all of this was pre-IO, but I did it.  Because I wanted to play my way....not teamed with controllers and defenders as most blasters were told to do.  Your tone indicates a level of superior condemnation that I want to play that way, but its interesting to me how little I care how YOU prefer to play.  In fact, I hope that your preferred play style remains fully available to you.

 

But regardless of your beliefs, I remain very disappointed in this change.  Not the change itself, but in the precedent that it represents.  Once again, years after being mothballed, the game is available to play.  And once again, there’s a chorus of players who really insist that the game only be played however they believe it must be played.  Forced teaming, forced soloing, I shouldn’t have to go into a PVP zone to earn a PVP badge/drops/whatever, Regen is too strong nerf them, Burn needs to be changed, put a timer on the wolf mission, etc etc etc.  I’d really hoped this mentality was left in mothballs.

 

Judging by your post....it appears its alive and well.  For what reasons I can’t fathom.  Other than a deep seated need to impose one players’ will on that of the entire population in the name of balance of powers, time, effort or just egos. 

 

Interesting lesson in psychology.