Supergroups...isn't it time for a change?

[Snarky]

I remember the SG cap at 75 on live, and the tightness that caused.  kick, kick, boot to the head.  The relative freedom of 150 max SG membership was truly amazing.

 

Now, lets freaking get real. 

 

1) Why the ....  erm.  Why can we not have a higher SG cap?  

 

2) Why can we not belong to more than one SG?  Has anybody read superhero comics?  There was this guy...um, Sta...Stanley?...no  it will come to me.  Anyways, he wrote these great stories where the Heroes (and Villains!) belonged to multiple groups!  Whole different comic series where the same hero would show up in various DIFFERENT super groups.  

 

It is time folks.  Get some freedom for these Supers so they can get some teaming going on.  Socializing.  You know, MULTIPLAYER  (it is the second M in MMORPG)

 

 

[Apparition]

The SG cap was already raised from 150 to 300 over a year ago.  Not sure if it's possible to raise higher.

 

Everyone I know (including myself), has their own individual SG.  We just use in-game global channels and a couple of Discord servers to keep together.

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, Apparition said:

The SG cap was already raised from 150 to 300 over a year ago.  Not sure if it's possible to raise higher.

 

Everyone I know (including myself), has their own individual SG.  We just use in-game global channels and a couple of Discord servers to keep together.

THis is exactly what I mean.  If we could have 5 Supergroups that would solve so many awkward teaming issues.  You have your storage base SG, you have 4 other SGs.  I belong to a good SG.  I would love to be wove into the fabric of a couple more.  That would allow me to be in a Dark themed SG, another huge 'pro' SG, a Redside exclusive SG, maybe even an RP SG, all on my main.  Busy busy busy!  

 

As it is I am happy with the main SG.  I wish I had access to the storage base, and there is no way to join a newer SG leaders group no matter how much I want to support them/check it out

 

[Techwright]

I suspect this is where "Coalition" can be used.  I've not really heard it mentioned in Homecoming, though I've had no need to look into it either.   Link your SG (or your solo SG) to other SG's by mutual agreement and recruit via the Coalition channel.  I believe this allows you to access their bases as well.  True, you'll not be able to change SG names on the fly, but we've enough costume spaces that there's probably room for Coalition uniforms.

[Snarky]

7 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I suspect this is where "Coalition" can be used.  I've not really heard it mentioned in Homecoming, though I've had no need to look into it either.   Link your SG (or your solo SG) to other SG's by mutual agreement and recruit via the Coalition channel.  I believe this allows you to access their bases as well.  True, you'll not be able to change SG names on the fly, but we've enough costume spaces that there's probably room for Coalition uniforms.

With all due respect, if I thought "coalition" was a successful implementation of the concept I would not have brought up possible solutions.

 

Coalition is not something I chose.  It is the SG leaders choice and that choice is not infinite either (unless things have changed mightily) I doubt they would want to coalie with my personal SG, my Dark themed SG, some new player forming a redside SG, and a RP SG i am involved with.  along with coalitioning like that for each of the 300 members of the SG...

[Coyotedancer]

'Worth noting... there are also limits on the number of groups you can form a coalition with. It's fairly limited. 

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Why can we not belong to more than one SG?

 

Alts.

[Shenanigunner]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

Everyone I know (including myself), has their own individual SG.  We just use in-game global channels and a couple of Discord servers to keep together.

 

This. There just aren't any real advantages to SGing any more, except for a few close-knit teaming groups and the like. No more need to find and coddle and urge members to build Prestige so you can get another med-porter, and such. Not to mention universal access to other bases with passcodes.

 

When everyone can build a Super base, no one will be Super any more. As someone sorta put it.

 

I guess if you don't have time and patience to fit out one room with all the useful stuff, no matter how messily, joining an existing SG is a good idea.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Alts.

again, trying to be respectful. If I thought alts was a valid solution I would not be raising the issue.  I am aware of the possibility of alts.

 

I am a serial monogamist when it comes to the game.  After running a dozen or so concepts to 50 I will find one I like and stay on it for a month to the better part of a year.  Currently on a Dark/Dark Brute.  Over 100 vet levels, over 1100 badges.  Lot of work yet to do, in my mind.

 

1) The capability to broaden the network of reliable players (good SGs) I can team with will enhance play experience.  

 

2) It is super-genre canon that characters solo, form SGs, join other SGs, and belong to multiple SGs.

 

So far feedback is

1) "Use coalition channels."  Okay, to take that argument further we do not need SGs.  We can create global channels.  

2) Alt.  Okay, so i am saying I like this character so much I want to play it as much as possible, with as many groups as possible.  And your suggestion is I should stop playing it and do something else?

 

 

 

[Shenanigunner]

 

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

Okay, so i am saying I like this character so much I want to play it as much as possible, with as many groups as possible.  And your suggestion is I should stop playing it and do something else?

 

Have a self-SG for all the convenience, and write entry macros for every group you are told a passcode.

 

If SGs are still a useful way to team and such, given the massive number of options now, I think it's escaped most players. You can team 12 hours a day without an SG, or whole passel of SGs, to drive it.

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Alt.  Okay, so i am saying I like this character so much I want to play it as much as possible, with as many groups as possible.  And your suggestion is I should stop playing it and do something else?

 

No.  Make the same character, power-level it up if you prefer, enroll the new one in a different SG.  Rinse, repeat as necessary to play the same character across multiple SGs.

 

The only real difference, then, is the name.

[MTeague]

Among the first things I do on rolling up a lvl 1 alt is /altinvite them to my personal SG, specifically so I don't get SG invites from other players.

 

I'm skittish on "guilds", like other MMO's have. 

I did that for eight years in a raiding guild in World of Warcraft.  And four years before that in EverQuest. 

I do have very fond memories from both games and I get seriously nostalgic for each of them.  I really enjoyed my time with both guilds. 

But it eventually broke me, how much I was scheduling my life around it. 

 

Now I play games on my terms or not at all.  No alliances, no expectations, no nothing.  If people are doing something that  looks fun, I'll join. If not, I won't, and no amount of tells or "c'mon man, we really need you" will move me.  I know, with CoH, this is probably the one MMO where I could relax my guard, because no one is ever needed the way some roles are needed in other MMO's. But it's reached a certain amount of "Never Again".  Even if that's entirely a "me issue."

 

[Greycat]

21 minutes ago, Snarky said:

again, trying to be respectful. If I thought alts was a valid solution I would not be raising the issue.  I am aware of the possibility of alts.

 

I am a serial monogamist when it comes to the game.  After running a dozen or so concepts to 50 I will find one I like and stay on it for a month to the better part of a year.  Currently on a Dark/Dark Brute.  Over 100 vet levels, over 1100 badges.  Lot of work yet to do, in my mind.

 

1) The capability to broaden the network of reliable players (good SGs) I can team with will enhance play experience.  

 

2) It is super-genre canon that characters solo, form SGs, join other SGs, and belong to multiple SGs.

 

So far feedback is

1) "Use coalition channels."  Okay, to take that argument further we do not need SGs.  We can create global channels.  

2) Alt.  Okay, so i am saying I like this character so much I want to play it as much as possible, with as many groups as possible.  And your suggestion is I should stop playing it and do something else?

 

With respect, this sounds like a mostly "you" issue.

 

For your points:

1. Broadening the network. That's what friends lists (local and global) and coalitions are *for.* This is not something that would only suddenly unlock with having one character able to be in multiple SGs.

 

2. Again - coalition covers that.

 

And your feedback feedback?

 

1. No, that is nothing close to what is being said. You have to fold, spindle and mutilate the argument to make it say anything close to "we do not need SGs."

 

2. Not if you make the alt another version of the same character. I've done this to play the same character on multiple servers, or play the same character at different points in their career, or, yes, to be in different groups. I've even had it be the same characters with or without certain powers in the same SG (warshade for one, dual pistols for another version, for instance.)

 

All that said, I'm not necessarily *against* the idea, I just don't think it's all that needed - and shudder at what could be broken with trying to do it.

[Snarky]

56 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

1. No, that is nothing close to what is being said. You have to fold, spindle and mutilate the argument to make it say anything close to "we do not need SGs."

 

2. Not if you make the alt another version of the same character. I've done this to play the same character on multiple servers, or play the same character at different points in their career, or, yes, to be in different groups. I've even had it be the same characters with or without certain powers in the same SG (warshade for one, dual pistols for another version, for instance.)

 

All that said, I'm not necessarily *against* the idea, I just don't think it's all that needed - and shudder at what could be broken with trying to do it.

Your point 1... In my thought processes I am using Reductio ad Absurdum.  By showing the response to my request for multiple SGs  "you have coalition channels" leads to a ludicrous conclusion when taken to extremes "We have chat channels so you do not need an SG"  

 

Your final point is one that has been dancing in my head.  The current team on Homecoming has been very careful and deliberate.  I am given to understand the coding on CoH is not the most logical, perfect, nor clean beast that has ever wandered into a CPU.  I can understand if there are coding limitations that would be a truly valid concern.

 

Still, I believe the issue is one that deserves more than a "use a chat channel" or "get an alt" response.  As far as being dedicated to one character i would put myself near the middle of the pack.  That is a statistic I completely made up, yet I think it might be arguably near.  there are many who have every badge.  I have 2/3rds on my top character.  When you are this tied into running one character you want to have as many options as possible.  I see the topic of more SG flexibility as both a need and an opportunity.  If it requires tons of effort or will break the game, well, that is that.  

 

The ability to be enmeshed in more than one SG (see who is on and quickly coordinate with them being the bulk of this in my mind... which brings up a semi SG possibility...Super Teams???) A Super Team concept might look like having an SG window and SG chat, but no SG Base.  The group would exist to continue a Hero/Villains long term goals.  This would facilitate RP Groups, long term teams level crawling over months together, and other social cliques.

[Greycat]

29 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Your point 1... In my thought processes I am using Reductio ad Absurdum.  By showing the response to my request for multiple SGs  "you have coalition channels" leads to a ludicrous conclusion when taken to extremes "We have chat channels so you do not need an SG"  

 

<snip>

 

The ability to be enmeshed in more than one SG (see who is on and quickly coordinate with them being the bulk of this in my mind... which brings up a semi SG possibility...Super Teams???) A Super Team concept might look like having an SG window and SG chat, but no SG Base.  The group would exist to continue a Hero/Villains long term goals.  This would facilitate RP Groups, long term teams level crawling over months together, and other social cliques.

 

(Not ignoring the points in the middle, just snipping to the most relevant for space.)

 

See, for that first point, though, an SG is more than chat channels. Between base, storage and utility, they serve a greater function. It would carry more weight if this were still some of the *very* early issues where an SG *was* pretty much just a group... and chat channel.

 

"Ah, but wouldn't that be what being in multiple groups would allow!" as an obvious response - to which I say, yes... and which we get with coalitions. Access to each others bases. Dedicated chat in the coalition channel. And if there's to be a central hub, a central base/group can be created and coalitioned to all the others. So the tools are pretty much there.

 

 

As for the super *team* concept - which, honestly, sounds like what I mentioned above with "early issue supergroups," I think that would possibly work (technical limits aside, which I don't know) with existing technology, fitting between coalition and SG on an individual level, yes.  It would, I think, be seen primarily as an RP vehicle - but I could see it being used with something like the classic hero project characters, too.

 

(I think part of the problem with your original post is the way you framed it - because all of the tools for what you mention already exist. The way it sounds above sounds different, at least to me. But that's what this forum is for - refinement, arguing, etc. to get the best out of an idea, as far as I'm concerned.)

[DoctorDitko]

I forget his name, but there was a comics hero -- I'm thinking the Badger? -- who was a member of, guest-starred in, or fought every single damn supergroup there was.* And another guy -- he might have been a more serious take on Die Fleidermaus? -- who founded 3 or 4 Supergroups, and whose protege made a few of his own.

 

So how about a way to have Guest Stars? More intimate than a coalition, more permanent than a league.

Or, maybe, something groups can do like the old annual -- dammit, I just can't remember names -- Liberty League and Golden Age Liberty Society team-ups. I used to love those. (At least I think I did.)

 

Anyway, I would love to have a way for groups to affiliate more closely than Coalitions. "Why, yes, sir, I even trust your team with our storage bins!"

 

And those animal-inspired guys were definitely members of multiple groups simultaneously.

 

* Or at least, those the publisher thought needed a boost in circulation.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by DoctorDitko

[Snarky]

To pick up a name being bandied about for making the game better "Star Teams"  (referring to 5 person teams better concentrated to make content interesting: although I think it is interesting as is) and I suppose we are talking about a lot more than 5 in most cases.

 

But yes Greycat what I am interested in more than storage (I have a storage base SG, and having one or two toons not in it is not an inconvenience, throw them a few hundred mil and be done with it.  My main only generates revenue.  What does it need with storage...?)  anyways, more important by far than storage is the Grouping, semi permanent like a SG that allows a network tailor made for that toon.  Yes coalitions are great.  But as a lowly serf in a big SG I do not control the coalitions of who we associate with.  Again, i see this as a way to get better connected to a few groups that really meet one individual and/or toons needs.  A main SG can be great!  But the flexibility to add some side groups that you fit in well with is not an unworthy concept to explore.  All Tanker Group?  I still remember the Tanker Tuesday peeps from live.  I never joined (I Brute lol) But wouldnt it be great if they had a Star Team where they could see if their peeps were online and shout out in Star Team chat?  Or, again, a RP group, or a Dark Themed Group, or The League of Calamitous Intent?  Having these connections outside a SG would deepen the interest in the toon and increase the ability to consistently find teams that work well together.  In my opinion.

[agentx5]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

With respect, this sounds like a mostly "you" issue.

 

For your points:

1. Broadening the network. That's what friends lists (local and global) and coalitions are *for.* This is not something that would only suddenly unlock with having one character able to be in multiple SGs.

 

2. Again - coalition covers that.

 

And your feedback feedback?

 

1. No, that is nothing close to what is being said. You have to fold, spindle and mutilate the argument to make it say anything close to "we do not need SGs."

 

2. Not if you make the alt another version of the same character. I've done this to play the same character on multiple servers, or play the same character at different points in their career, or, yes, to be in different groups. I've even had it be the same characters with or without certain powers in the same SG (warshade for one, dual pistols for another version, for instance.)

 

All that said, I'm not necessarily *against* the idea, I just don't think it's all that needed - and shudder at what could be broken with trying to do it.

 

 

I think raising the global friend cap would be FAR more effective.  I'm always regretting having to remove good people I met in other server shards in order to make room for a maxed-out list.  It sucks.

[Andreah]

I agree it would be cool if we could join, say, up to five supergroups on a single character, and then pick from them for the one I wish to represent my character as being in at any given time.

 

It might also be cool to implement some sort of global channel variation, that is belonged to by characters and not globals, and is limited to a single server.

 

Maybe allow Supergroups to invite non-member characters to their chat channels. 

 

All this sounds very messy and unlikely, software- and effort-wise. But we can dream. 🙂

 

[Clave Dark 5]

SGs.  I was never a big joiner of them to start with (my weird hours seem to dictate that I never have long term friends in the game), and I haven't bothered to try and form my own either, haven't seen the need.

 

I'd be open to seeing some changes come down the pike to expand what they are or might be able to do to make them fun again and worth joining.  And I am awed by the base builder community.

[cranebump]

I actually kinda miss the way SGs used to be done. Contributing to Prestige was a tangible method of gaining rank. Huge bases had to be earned. And since I suck at base design, it was nice to contribute to the project so the pros could shine (and I could take advantage of their shineyness).

 

Anyhoo, all good. Its nice we we can have a storage facility (or “lair”), and these incredible bases for free.  As for using the comics as a justification for being in multiple SGs, I can’t recall characters that were in several at once. Do recall characters who cycled through various ones at points in their careers. Seems like EVERYONE was an Avenger at least once. As far as being in multiples at the same time in our game? Doesn’t seem like a burning need, due to already mentioned socialization tools (Discord and so on).

Edited March 28, 2021 by cranebump

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, cranebump said:

 As for using the comics as a justification for being in multiple SGs, I can’t recall characters that were in several at once. Do recall characters who cycled through various ones at points in their careers. Seems like EVERYONE was an Avenger at least once. As far as being in multiples at the same time in our game? Doesn’t seem like a burning need, due to already mentioned socialization tools (Discord and so on).

Sorry you never got to read a lot of comics.  There were many "crossover" events, and an uncountable number of "appearing in" because Comics are basically a giant Soap Opera looking for more drama and interest all the time.

 

 

[cranebump]

On 3/28/2021 at 9:09 AM, Snarky said:

Sorry you never got to read a lot of comics.  There were many "crossover" events, and an uncountable number of "appearing in" because Comics are basically a giant Soap Opera looking for more drama and interest all the time.

 

 

Thanks for attempting to explain how comic stories work, but I have read a LOT of comics. LOTS. Like, since I was 10 back in the 70s lots. So, I understand what a crossover is, thanks.*

 

But here’s the deal:  a crossover event or guest-starring role does not require your character to be in multiple super groups. Your character can “cross over” via coalition mode. You can “guest star” by showing up (every mission arc you run is a guest starring role, isn’t it?). Everything you want to do can be accomplished by other means, unless your goal is to have your toon walking around with multiple SG tags for everyone to see. I like the thinking here, but my character’s personal history isn’t a reason to modify the entire game for something not in demand, or which can be accomplished by other means. Means which others have already and readily provided.

 

*if you’ll refer back to my original comment, it was about concurrent SG membership. For example, Luke Cage was a Defender and an Avenger. When was he both at the same time? While it was common to see members of various groups interact, concurrent membership wasn’t something I recall seeing a lot of. Guest appearances? All the time. But that’s a different thing.

Edited March 30, 2021 by cranebump

[Excraft]

22 hours ago, Snarky said:

If we could have 5 Supergroups that would solve so many awkward teaming issues. 

 

What awkward teaming issues?  Finding people to team with is near effortless in this game.  I could see raising or even removing the coalition limit so you'd have more groups in the coalition chat,  but beyond that it's not necessary to belong to many supergroups.  Sounds to me like this is a solution looking for a problem or someone trying to get around the base storage limitations again.

 

 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

 

What awkward teaming issues?  Finding people to team with is near effortless in this game.  I could see raising or even removing the coalition limit so you'd have more groups in the coalition chat,  but beyond that it's not necessary to belong to many supergroups.  Sounds to me like this is a solution looking for a problem or someone trying to get around the base storage limitations again.

 

 

The coalition change would not solve the issue (not the solution I am trying to cram in, but what I perceive to be the issue) that i want to address. I have discussed this above.

 

I have also discussed above that a solution to the issue may not include base storage access to any SG besides your main group.

 

The issue that I am looking at is how to create groups, Super Groups, that have a bond.  Not a friends list, not a coalition that your character (unless head of the SG) has no control over and is limited by nature.

 

The Super Groups, Star Teams, Super Teams, call them what you will, would ideally be long term groups that form in game.  Not account wide, but character specific.  In this way a Ice Dom might belong to their "main SG" and also Super Teams 1) Dominators of Rogue Isles 2) Ice Guild of Paragon 3) League of Calamitous Intent 4) Friday night levelling crawl 5) TF Saturday Excelsior

 

THis would allow for more of a connection to other players in the game, better teaming due to knowing the people on your team.  Yes, it is easy to team on Excelsior.  No, it is not always pleasant.  Yes, it is a LOT more pleasant when you have run with the peeps regularly.  Kapeesh?