Armour T9s

[Steampunkette]

3 minutes ago, siolfir said:

With IOs, you don't need any of these powers. And that's a build choice that everyone can make for themselves. Just like you could take the nukes - which did more damage than they do now when they had crashes - but people were skipping them because they didn't like being useless right after using them.

 

It would make the powers more attractive for less expensive builds or those that focus on other bonuses than +def, +res, and +recharge, and the way the sets are designed (with defense sets getting +def tier 9s and resistance sets getting +res tier 9s) means that you would have to flip the effects to get layered mitigation out of them - which I would prefer - but that still wouldn't make you need them, a concept that I am against in the first place.

 

The only way to make them needed is to nerf the hell out of the sets that they are in.

I mean, granted, you still wouldn't -need- them without the nerfing.

 

What I mean is: You're not actually giving people an alternative in the long run. Unless every one of the T9s can be made Perma through Recharge Slotting and Hasten and such, you're building a Tanker, Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, or Sentinel who loses the ability to defend themself for X amount of time every Y amount of time if they're built around using the T9 power as something they actually -use- for Survivability.

 

Taking these new and crashless Tier 9s would be largely pointless. I mean -maybe- you really need another +Def power to slot that last LotG into, but grab Maneuvers instead and you can also help a team of other players a little bit, at least, rather than just taking Elude to have it.

 

That's the big difference between a Nuke and a T9 Defensive Power. The Nuke only has to be useful once every minute or two to justify taking it because it'll do massive damage to a group. For a Tier 9 to be useful it either needs to replace a bunch of lower tier powers (Freeing up Slots and Power Choices) since it mimics their abilities, or it needs to provide something those other powers do not provide.

 

And a Tier 9 with downtime can do neither of those things, in the end. It's why I love Lightform on my PB. You can make it have no downtime, even if it has a crash, and no longer need all your other toggles to survive.

[tidge]

15 minutes ago, siolfir said:

The only way to make them needed is to nerf the hell out of the sets that they are in.

 

Let's not go there. Except for Regen. Nerf Regen.

[Steampunkette]

20 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

1) Build diversity wouldn't come just through power selection, but also through IO slotting.

 

2) Just because you can't figure out a way to use it, doesn't mean other players won't be able to. 

 

3) You're basing this judgement on...?

 

4) So you don't want a change to a power you don't use in a game mode you don't play.

Great feedback.

 

5) Yeah I like those ideas.

 

6) Nice to hear from someone who actually plays the sets/uses the T9s. 

 

1) Nope. I'm accounting for that. If you don't take Temp Invulnerability to instead take Unstoppable you're still slotting Resistance Sets. And according to you, you -need- all the secondary functions of the rest of the powers. Which are Resistance-based. So you still have to slot them for Resistance. Which means the same sets they're already using. And, heck, Temp Invuln also provides Resistance to Resistance Debuffing so why not take and use it, too? Soooo... >.> Still useless.

 

2) Pointless Insult noted.

 

3) You say they're Essential in PvP. That's -your- term. Your word choice. If it's already Essential why does it need a buff? If it's already something good enough that you -have- to use it, why give it a buff? That's like saying Hasten is Essential so let's make it an Autopower at it's current level of buff. Why? Because it would be stronger and then people wouldn't have to slot for more recharge so they can slot for other stuff! Except they would still be slotting for more recharge 'cause Permahasten's great but you can still go harder to get Permadom or Permalightform or Permawhateverelse. Or just shave off another 5 seconds of self-heal or nuke cooldown or whatever else to increase your overall DPS/HPS/WhateverPS.

 

4) Nah. It's not that I don't PvP. It's that you're being intentionally obfuscatory in that statement. You've made this big long post about how much it'll improve gameplay for PvE when it really doesn't and what you actually want is to make a handful of "Essential Powers" even stronger in a Nice Game Mode. That's just stacking the Meta to stack the Meta, at that point. Why bother? Glad you like the Feedback, though!

 

5) Yup. You would... It just makes the "Essential PvP Powers" flatly stronger, stacking the meta in the way you like it rather than, y'know... making any kind of substantial change.

 

6) Hey, look, another pointless insult!

 

I get it. You want them buffed for PvP because that's the game you like to play and these are the sets you like to play in that game. Cool Beans. I just don't think it's worth the Dev Time required to further stack your preferred powersets in a niche playstyle. The niche of a niche, if you will.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Steampunkette

[siolfir]

10 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

What I mean is: You're not actually giving people an alternative in the long run. Unless every one of the T9s can be made Perma through Recharge Slotting and Hasten and such, you're building a Tanker, Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, or Sentinel who loses the ability to defend themself for X amount of time every Y amount of time if they're built around using the T9 power as something they actually -use- for Survivability.

 

Taking these new and crashless Tier 9s would be largely pointless. I mean -maybe- you really need another +Def power to slot that last LotG into, but grab Maneuvers instead and you can also help a team of other players a little bit, at least, rather than just taking Elude to have it.

 

That's the big difference between a Nuke and a T9 Defensive Power. The Nuke only has to be useful once every minute or two to justify taking it because it'll do massive damage to a group. For a Tier 9 to be useful it either needs to replace a bunch of lower tier powers (Freeing up Slots and Power Choices) since it mimics their abilities, or it needs to provide something those other powers do not provide.

I agree with the big problem being that the tier 9s do something that the rest of the set already does, and would prefer to flip them. Currently they really only provide an "Oh S***" button for heavy debuffs (on resistance sets), cascade failure (for Nin), or high +tohit mobs (SR). I even said that in my posts.

 

But if someone is building on a budget and doesn't stack their build to soft-capped defense and capped resistance, then these powers have a use because the resistance sets will be pushed to caps on everything, Electric Armor also gets all of its Toxic resistance in Power Surge and suddenly has the highest magnitude KB protection in the game, and when it wears off the EMP has -regen and -recovery on the targets; the defense sets get less out of it because it's easier to softcap those but even there Nin and EA get some extra DDR, EA also gets a lot of +hp which isn't available in the rest of the set, there are recovery and movement bonuses... it's not that they provide strictly nothing, it's that the extra things they provide aren't worth the crash. A mid-range build that would want to take these powers to shore up holes can suddenly take them without worrying about having to deal with the toggle drop (and possible hp drop) at the end. A high-end build that's soft-and-hard-capped across the board still won't take them because they don't need them, but they become a viable patch which they currently are not.

 

I was going for a minimal changes approach, because those are a) more likely to occur; and b) far less likely to create backlash from people who like the system how it is. All you have to do is look at the first several pages on the Fly buffs and how people were outraged that Afterburner's +maxspeed was rolled into Fly and another popup tray power was added to see how people will complain about anything even if it's a straight buff.

[America's Angel]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:05 PM, Steampunkette said:

 

1) Nope. I'm accounting for that. If you don't take Temp Invulnerability to instead take Unstoppable you're still slotting Resistance Sets. And according to you, you -need- all the secondary functions of the rest of the powers. Which are Resistance-based. So you still have to slot them for Resistance. Which means the same sets they're already using. And, heck, Temp Invuln also provides Resistance to Resistance Debuffing so why not take and use it, too? Soooo... >.> Still useless.

 

2) Pointless Insult noted.

 

3) You say they're Essential in PvP. That's -your- term. Your word choice. If it's already Essential why does it need a buff? If it's already something good enough that you -have- to use it, why give it a buff? That's like saying Hasten is Essential so let's make it an Autopower at it's current level of buff. Why? Because it would be stronger and then people wouldn't have to slot for more recharge so they can slot for other stuff! Except they would still be slotting for more recharge 'cause Permahasten's great but you can still go harder to get Permadom or Permalightform or Permawhateverelse. Or just shave off another 5 seconds of self-heal or nuke cooldown or whatever else to increase your overall DPS/HPS/WhateverPS.

 

4) Nah. It's not that I don't PvP. It's that you're being intentionally obfuscatory in that statement. You've made this big long post about how much it'll improve gameplay for PvE when it really doesn't and what you actually want is to make a handful of "Essential Powers" even stronger in a Nice Game Mode. That's just stacking the Meta to stack the Meta, at that point. Why bother? Glad you like the Feedback, though!

 

5) Yup. You would... It just makes the "Essential PvP Powers" flatly stronger, stacking the meta in the way you like it rather than, y'know... making any kind of substantial change.

 

6) Hey, look, another pointless insult!

 

I get it. You want them buffed for PvP because that's the game you like to play and these are the sets you like to play in that game. Cool Beans. I just don't think it's worth the Dev Time required to further stack your preferred powersets in a niche playstyle. The niche of a niche, if you will.

 

Invuln isn't meta in PVP. Regen, EA, and Rad Armour are. Invuln is B+ at best, and that is with Unstoppable, a power essential to its survival. Even with the changes in my OP, those other sets would still outclass it. (It would go from a B+ to an A in a land of people playing S.) 

 

As someone who plays Invuln in PVE and PVP, I would find the changes in my OP to Unstoppable useful in both.

Edited May 10, 2021 by America's Angel

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, siolfir said:

I agree with the big problem being that the tier 9s do something that the rest of the set already does, and would prefer to flip them. Currently they really only provide an "Oh S***" button for heavy debuffs (on resistance sets), cascade failure (for Nin), or high +tohit mobs (SR). I even said that in my posts.

 

But if someone is building on a budget and doesn't stack their build to soft-capped defense and capped resistance, then these powers have a use because the resistance sets will be pushed to caps on everything, Electric Armor also gets all of its Toxic resistance in Power Surge and suddenly has the highest magnitude KB protection in the game, and when it wears off the EMP has -regen and -recovery on the targets; the defense sets get less out of it because it's easier to softcap those but even there Nin and EA get some extra DDR, EA also gets a lot of +hp which isn't available in the rest of the set, there are recovery and movement bonuses... it's not that they provide strictly nothing, it's that the extra things they provide aren't worth the crash. A mid-range build that would want to take these powers to shore up holes can suddenly take them without worrying about having to deal with the toggle drop (and possible hp drop) at the end. A high-end build that's soft-and-hard-capped across the board still won't take them because they don't need them, but they become a viable patch which they currently are not.

 

I was going for a minimal changes approach, because those are a) more likely to occur; and b) far less likely to create backlash from people who like the system how it is. All you have to do is look at the first several pages on the Fly buffs and how people were outraged that Afterburner's +maxspeed was rolled into Fly and another popup tray power was added to see how people will complain about anything even if it's a straight buff.

You're at least largely right on the mid-range build thing, yeah. Hadn't really considered the "Mostly SO" Character, in honesty.

 

But even for such players, isn't it still largely useless? You use Unstoppable as your "Oh, Shit!" button and it lasts for a long period of time during which you're unstoppable... and then you get into the next fight and the one after that and the one after that and it crashes without "Crashing" if you catch my drift and you're in the middle of a big fight with a bunch of enemies who are now hitting you -without- Unstoppable on, putting you right back where you were when you hit the button to begin with, only now it's on recharge.

 

I dunno... I feel like they just need to either be redesigned, probably with a shorter duration/cooldown cycle so they maintain similar uptime but don't die right as you're taking Alpha from the fourth pack down the hallway... and become more of a real "Oh Shit!" button? Which would royally suck for PvPers, so we shouldn't -do- that.

 

I feel like especially with the Afterburner, yeah, we need alternate T9s...

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

I get it. You want them buffed for PvP because that's the game you like to play and these are the sets you like to play in that game. Cool Beans. I just don't think it's worth the Dev Time required to further stack your preferred powersets in a niche playstyle. The niche of a niche, if you will.

 

Exactly.  If this whole topic came off as more objective I'd hope the dev team would be open to giving this a listen. 

 

But being a dom player back before all of the changes to the somewhat current pvp I lost the ability to perma lockdown players which if I'm being fair was absolutely garbage.  All you had to do as a dom was survive to domination and then easily run someone out of bfs for the easy win.  So appreciate the complete overhaul to the whole mez mechanic in pvp although I don't like non control AT's having mez mechanics they can just all out proc for stupid damage.  

 

What I find discouraging in pvp is that in its last moments of life it was manageable but somehow while the game was away blasters were made into living gods suited greatly for pvp because they were given even more hp for some reason and all of the survivability afforded them with things like absorb shields.  Blasters were kind of the meta back on live and now they are THE pvp, if you're not playing an ice/plants proc'd out blaster then you're on some "honorable" melee toon with a godmode and burnout.  

 

There's quite a lot wrong with pvp at the moment and vice versa.  It'll take some objectivity if you @America's Angel ever want to see actual changes to encourage people to venture into arenas to get you more bodies to play with.  

Edited April 13, 2021 by Mezmera

[Wavicle]

I want them each to be handled slightly differently so that they don't all feel the same (redundant, I know). But in general, crashes should either be removed or cut in half (like Lightform). If strength and duration need to be altered to make that ok, so be it.

[Razor Cure]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:19 AM, America's Angel said:

T9s in PVE: Useless T9s in PVP: Essential

 

Are they useful in PvP? AN honest question. I have not pvp'd since Live, but I did back there, before and after the big changes from Castle ( I think?).

Prior to the changes, you would see the odd brute running around using Power Surge but it was hardly a super common thing. And hardly required. Sure it made them harder to kill for that period, but totally not unkillable. Even with the mostly maxed resists, scrappers could still (and I assume do) crit you for 'full' damage, blasters hit for some unresistable damage, and fender debuffs are unresistable too.

I did see quite a few SR scrappers, including one who basically never left the hero base without Elude on. And he died a lot, even then (duke it out a bit, till he is feeling unkillable, then pop FoN and floor him).

When the changes hit, most tier9s were way less useful, with all the Diminished Returns. I forget the exact numbers, but I am sure than Power Surge, instead of capping you, would be giving like 5-10% resist instead.

 

Perhaps the T9s got tweaked again? I just cant see them being required, since everyone can get Phase SHift (which basically IS required from what I recall, and the temp one requires no power pick!) and the advantage Ranged ATs.

[Grindingsucks]

23 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Please don't suggest nerfs. 

 

Okay.  But as long as you can build a Tank (pre-incarnate, no less) with numbers like the one you posted, no Tank will ever need (or want) the T-9.

 

 

Quote

 

"This would be OP with incarnates!"

I think you have that the wrong way around. Incarnates make everything OP. Incarnates should not be considered when talking about game balance. (Except alpha, maybe.)

 

"Insps would make this OP."

Again, you got that the wrong way around. Insps (purple ones especially) are insanely OP right now.

 

"What about Shield? It's T9 only has an uptime of 33%"

 

Maybe shield should get some love, too. But One With The Shield has a different duration/recharge to the other T9s listed, so that's a potentially separate conversation.

 

 

 

I mostly agree.  I think the logical thing to do would be to ner... ah, wait.  You don't want to talk about that.  Nevermind.  🤷‍♂️

 

Quote

 

So...how to make T9s useful in PVE?

 

First of, fix the obvious downsides:

• Remove the 20s recovery debuff in Elude(!) Overload, Retsu, and Power Surge
• Remove or reduce the -HP in the Unstoppable and Power Surge crash
• Remove or reduce the -end in the crash of all T9s.
• (Fix the "psy hole" they all have in PVP! Psy Melee players shouldn't have this weird advantage!)

 

 

I could get behind the idea of a minor to moderate reduction to the crash aspects of the T-9's (which, I agree, are too excessive).  I don't think removing them altogether (or even halving them) is a good choice.  Beyond that, I can't see much that would be accomplished by any of this, without adding to the already excessive power creep in the game, although it could improve PvP (I don't know, as I only ever play PvE stuff on CoX).

•  

•  

[Monos King]

3 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

 

Are they useful in PvP? AN honest question. I have not pvp'd since Live, but I did back there, before and after the big changes from Castle ( I think?).

Prior to the changes, you would see the odd brute running around using Power Surge but it was hardly a super common thing. And hardly required. Sure it made them harder to kill for that period, but totally not unkillable. Even with the mostly maxed resists, scrappers could still (and I assume do) crit you for 'full' damage, blasters hit for some unresistable damage, and fender debuffs are unresistable too.

I did see quite a few SR scrappers, including one who basically never left the hero base without Elude on. And he died a lot, even then (duke it out a bit, till he is feeling unkillable, then pop FoN and floor him).

When the changes hit, most tier9s were way less useful, with all the Diminished Returns. I forget the exact numbers, but I am sure than Power Surge, instead of capping you, would be giving like 5-10% resist instead.

 

Perhaps the T9s got tweaked again? I just cant see them being required, since everyone can get Phase SHift (which basically IS required from what I recall, and the temp one requires no power pick!) and the advantage Ranged ATs.

Yeah so the t9s are great in PvP because everyones defensive stats are nerfed, and the t9s are such huge buffs that even nerfed they give a lot of protection. Defense is a bit different in PvP because the PvP Diminishing Return nerfs render defense useless without the PvP unique attribute of Elusivity (the opposite of accuracy). Elude didn't offer elusivity, so it was pretty much useless t9. It now does give elusivity, so it's great in PvP just like Overload, which also is a t9 that gives elusivity.

[Leogunner]

9 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

Exactly.  If this whole topic came off as more objective I'd hope the dev team would be open to giving this a listen. 

 

Eh, are you really willing to look at this more objectively?

 

Objectively, a lot of changes have gone in to make the game *objectively* easier all the way down to level 1 and up to max level but no one wants to consider rebalancing IOs or defense or mez or difficulty sliders, etc.  Objectively, it's okay to suggest changes to give more power (either offensively or defensively) but we are not allowed to touch the max sliders?  Personally, I don't see an issue with having the difficulty better balanced at the base level (+0/x1) so that it accurately scales rather than min/max styles basically hitting the ceiling...but being able to hit that ceiling is defined as "super heroic" so it's "objectively" out of bounds to discuss.

 

On the other hand, I feel it's rather pretentious to consistently push for more and more buffs and conveniences to detract from the game on the premise that some players' time is too valuable.  PvP vs PvE aside, things are probably better to keep the same.

[Grindingsucks]

 

Quote

 

  9 hours ago, Mezmera said:

[...]objective.[...]

 

 

 

I mean... it's possible they might not.  I'm inclined to think that it's actually you that has that particular problem.  Inconceivable?  Well, you do seem to want to build an echo chamber where you'll only receive feedback that agrees with suggested changes in your original post.  For example:

 

 

Quote

 

  6 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I want them each to be handled slightly differently so that they don't all feel the same (redundant, I know). But in general, crashes should either be removed or cut in half (like Lightform). If strength and duration need to be altered to make that ok, so be it.

  

  On 4/12/2021 at 4:44 PM, America's Angel said:

Please don't suggest nerfs. 

 

Okay, I won't suggest nerfs.  But if I have to choose between endorsing your idea in a game already bloated with power creep or simply declining to endorse it and leaving the T-9's, as is- I'll vote for the latter.  Oh, and by the way...

Quote

 

 "Wouldn't this make the sets OP in PVP?"

If paired with Dark Melee/Rad Melee? Quite possibly. But that speaks more to Dark Melee / Rad Melee than the T9s. If testing shows these two attack sets are providing too much mitigation, despite requiring a tohitcheck for their heals, then that's something that can be looked at separately to T9s. There's no reason an EM/EA should suffer because a DM/EA is really survivable.

 

Please don't suggest nerfs.  🤠

 

[Wavicle]

If it goes from a power almost no one takes to a power that some people actually use then it's not a nerf, it's a buff.

[Monos King]

16 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

If it goes from a power almost no one takes to a power that some people actually use then it's not a nerf, it's a buff.

It's possible it could be a utility buff but a potency nerf for an overall performance buff. But becoming more viable in the majority of circumstances doesn't mean more viable for all. 

 

Anyway, my official stance is T9s will never be useful in PvE because of IOs unless they are supplementing something the support set doesn't have much of, like One with the Shield. And I think that because of IOs this is pointless anyway because there is zero need for t9s to make IO'ed characters more powerful because they are already ultimate in power because of IOs. IO's just render the purpose of T9s that aren't OWTS types obsolete. I think their just incompatible with the current game without changed purpose, and that's why we'll literally never find a good state for them. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

[Wavicle]

I agree it's going to be tricky, but it should be attempted anyway.

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

--

 

I'm not the one saying they can't pvp without their godmode without realizing some kind of change may make it different for you so you won't need to rely on it as much in pvp.  

 

They totally redid everything about the mez mechanic to make it easier for you all against characters like mine but all of a sudden I'm supposed to feel bad for you if they have a look at how your t9 plays?  

 

Survive, Adapt.

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Eh, are you really willing to look at this more objectively?

 

Objectively, a lot of changes have gone in to make the game *objectively* easier all the way down to level 1 and up to max level but no one wants to consider rebalancing IOs or defense or mez or difficulty sliders, etc.  Objectively, it's okay to suggest changes to give more power (either offensively or defensively) but we are not allowed to touch the max sliders?  Personally, I don't see an issue with having the difficulty better balanced at the base level (+0/x1) so that it accurately scales rather than min/max styles basically hitting the ceiling...but being able to hit that ceiling is defined as "super heroic" so it's "objectively" out of bounds to discuss.

 

On the other hand, I feel it's rather pretentious to consistently push for more and more buffs and conveniences to detract from the game on the premise that some players' time is too valuable.  PvP vs PvE aside, things are probably better to keep the same.

 

Be it buffs, nerfs or what have you, we all have access to play the same things.  I don't want any dev time wasted on anything but bringing us and our friends new stuff to play with. 

 

Mostly I want more incarnate stuff that was promised when I bought Going Rogue.  I was fine supporting a whole new tutorial area for yet more low level content to do in Praetoria for those that only saw more low level content as new but I did want my cake as well with the full 10 more incarnate levels and corresponding content to come with.  

 

The same things to do just with tweaked powersets is still the same things to do. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Mezmera

[America's Angel]

On 4/13/2021 at 10:53 PM, Grindingsucks said:

I mean... it's possible they might not.  I'm inclined to think that it's actually you that has that particular problem.  Inconceivable?  Well, you do seem to want to build an echo chamber where you'll only receive feedback that agrees with suggested changes in your original post.

 

I'm not looking to build an echo chamber. I welcome being proven wrong. But the feedback I've received has been:

1. This would make armour sets too powerful!
2. This would do nothing for armour sets!
3. I'd rather the devs focus on other stuff.
4. Removing the crashes sounds good.

#1 & #2 cancel each other out. #3 is personal opinion that can apply to any suggestion. Which leaves me with only #4.

 

I'm sure there is a coherent counter-argument to my proposal, I have yet to hear it. And this isn't because my proposal is especially good. But is because most people in this thread aren't actually responding to it. The vast majority of exchanges in here have been:

Angel's OP: I know what you're thinking. "What about X?" Well, luckily there is solution Y.

Poster: What about X, though?

 

My annoyance stems from people raising something my OP already addresses (X), rather than my solution to it (Y).

 

It is frustrating when people want to both argue with you, and yet not respond to what you've written, at the same time. 

 

But I certainly welcome disagreement, it's how you test whether an idea is good or not.

 

 

On 4/14/2021 at 8:14 AM, Mezmera said:

 

I'm not the one saying they can't pvp without their godmode without realizing some kind of change may make it different for you so you won't need to rely on it as much in pvp.  

 

They totally redid everything about the mez mechanic to make it easier for you all against characters like mine but all of a sudden I'm supposed to feel bad for you if they have a look at how your t9 plays?  

 

Survive, Adapt.

 

On my scrapper, these are the average amount of time it takes me to kill the following opponents:

 

Invuln Brute without Unstoppable: 1-2 minutes

Invuln Brute with Unstoppable: 6-7 minutes

Energy Aura Scrapper: 7 minutes

Regen Scrapper: 4-7 minutes

Regen Brute: 7-15 minutes

 

As you can see, an Invuln Brute without unstoppable doesn't need to "learn to play". They are just mathematically, objectively, inferior.

 

 

On 4/14/2021 at 5:28 AM, Monos King said:

It's possible it could be a utility buff but a potency nerf for an overall performance buff. But becoming more viable in the majority of circumstances doesn't mean more viable for all. 

 

Anyway, my official stance is T9s will never be useful in PvE because of IOs unless they are supplementing something the support set doesn't have much of, like One with the Shield. And I think that because of IOs this is pointless anyway because there is zero need for t9s to make IO'ed characters more powerful because they are already ultimate in power because of IOs. IO's just render the purpose of T9s that aren't OWTS types obsolete. I think their just incompatible with the current game without changed purpose, and that's why we'll literally never find a good state for them. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

Removing the crashes would go some way to allow people to prove you wrong. One thing I've learned in my many years with CoH - players are always finding unexpected ways to make powers more useful than they first appear.

 

Also worth remembering, as I mentioned in my OP, that this would be a buff to SO builds/players. (The majority.)

Edited May 10, 2021 by America's Angel

[Myrmidon]

21 hours ago, siolfir said:

 

In that case, I'd say these changes would boost them without changing a huge amount:

• Eliminate all hit point crashes (Unstoppable, Power Surge)
• Powers with a full endurance crash will only crash 50% instead (this is what Strength of Will currently has).
• Remove -recovery from all that have it.
  • Optional: Power Surge can keep the (self) -recovery because it crashes with an EMP, which has a recovery crash in Radiation Emission.
  • Note that I'd rather see the (self) -recovery removed from all forms of EMP.
• Get rid of the endurance crashes in One with the Shield and Strength of Will, or cut them in half (to 30% and 25% respectively) if you have to keep them.

This way the uptime and effect of the powers is not diminished, but the crash becomes easier to deal with and, for Unstoppable, isn't practically a death sentence (I'd include Power Surge there too, but the EMP during the crash has saved me back in issue 8 when I had it on an SO build and hit Build Up just before it dropped).

Here is where we begin.

 

 

[Myrmidon]

20 hours ago, siolfir said:

All you have to do is look at the first several pages on the Fly buffs and how people were outraged that Afterburner's +maxspeed was rolled into Fly and another popup tray power was added to see how people will complain about anything even if it's a straight buff.

Let me assure you that absolutely NO ONE took “The Buffs ruin Flight” in the pool. 

 

 

Ok, now I really want to see changes just to meet the player that will spend multiple pages going on about how changing the Unstoppable crash “ruins the game”.😂

[golstat2003]

The tier 9s should just have their crashes lessened or removed. I do not think any of the other changes the OP posted are needed.

[dangeraaron10]

I'd take Meltdown if I had room for it in my build.  Do I need it?  Not really.  If it had a crash like Unstoppable, I can say with absolute certainty I'd laugh off the concept of it.  I only consider it due to its relatively minor crash.

 

Sky high risk for little to no reward with most of these T9s.  

[Grindingsucks]

2 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

The tier 9s should just have their crashes lessened or removed. I do not think any of the other changes the OP posted are needed.

 

I'm onboard with lessened but not removing it entirely.  Other than that, I agree completely.

[Wavicle]

6 minutes ago, Grindingsucks said:

 

I'm onboard with lessened but not removing it entirely.  Other than that, I agree completely.

I’m thinking some should have it lessened (Unstoppable) while others should have it removed (Elude). But I’m open to the idea that they’ll also have to be nerfed a little bit.