Rant & Rave - Page 2 is out

[ninja surprise]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:01 PM, Taboo said:

Afterburner was formerly a toggle, it is now a 30 sec power with a 60 sec recharge. (why is the one minute recharge necessary?.. PvP is the only thing I can think of)

Afterburner had defense removed, added to another power, which will never have the same level of defense available in combat.

 

I really wish they'd given the new Afterburner a new name because it's a different power.

They buffed Fly to be the same speed as old Fly + Afterburner (so combined two toggles into one) and then tacked on this new Afterburner that is a pure but low duration speed boost to make you go even faster. They should have called it "Turbo Boost" or "Nitrous" like that.

 

On 4/21/2021 at 8:48 AM, Grindingsucks said:

But help me understand why invisibility or afterburner are less usable/effective now- because I just don't get it.  🤔  

 

Old Afterburner could act like a Personal Force Field: Only affect self with high defense for blasting through a map in relative safety. New Afterburner can't do that at all. Evasive Maneuvers does it a little, but not as well as old AB did. (That's what Taboo refers to above)

 

I like being able to run Hover and Fly at the same time for speed and maneuverability, but haven't used Evasive Maneuvers enough yet to see if it's worth taking.

[BjorJlen]

42 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

You should give a character with a snipe a whirl it is a fun power to use, but I do agree it's much less fun reducing the range on it since you were likely just blasting a runner and it was great to be like "Oh where do you think you are going?!". 

 

   I just might... Just haven't really gotten around to it as there are other good powers to choose from, though it does make me wonder why rifles and such have the same range as pistols (besides game balance mechanics I mean). Just curious...

 

Peace...

[tidge]

Frankly: I was Well Aware of the upcoming changes to Scrapper/Stalker Snipes, both in %proc rates, Range changes, %crit changes.

 

It wasn't explicitly spelled out in the discussions I followed that Blaster snipes were going to be touched at all... so when the claim was made in a post subsequent to mine that ALL snipes were buffed... I was genuinely curious as to what I missed. Folk who make epic pronouncements and link to the patch thread (which I have read) but include a broad statement that there is a buff to a power where I am seeing some subtractions... I asked what I was missing.

 

I fully expected to get either

• a response detailing how across Blaster primaries there was some re-jiggering and that explains the loss in range for (fast) snipes, or
• a flat out admission that the poster was wrong (ALL snipes DID NOT get a Buff) , and possibly edit the original post with the incorrect statement.

I've been wrong about some things here, I've admitted it, I've made corrections to incorrect posts. It's not that big a deal to walk back an exaggerated statement, nor is it the end of the world to correct your own mistake without trying to blame the audience for reading what was written.

[Mezmera]

15 minutes ago, tidge said:

Frankly: I was Well Aware of the upcoming changes to Scrapper/Stalker Snipes, both in %proc rates, Range changes, %crit changes.

 

It wasn't explicitly spelled out in the discussions I followed that Blaster snipes were going to be touched at all... so when the claim was made in a post subsequent to mine that ALL snipes were buffed... I was genuinely curious as to what I missed. Folk who make epic pronouncements and link to the patch thread (which I have read) but include a broad statement that there is a buff to a power where I am seeing some subtractions... I asked what I was missing.

 

I fully expected to get either

• a response detailing how across Blaster primaries there was some re-jiggering and that explains the loss in range for (fast) snipes, or
• a flat out admission that the poster was wrong (ALL snipes DID NOT get a Buff) , and possibly edit the original post with the incorrect statement.

I've been wrong about some things here, I've admitted it, I've made corrections to incorrect posts. It's not that big a deal to walk back an exaggerated statement, nor is it the end of the world to correct your own mistake without trying to blame the audience for reading what was written.

 

To me it looks like fast snipe range may have been an issue to address more so something to do with PvP than anything in game that would seem unfair to snipe a npc running away from you.  They're solidifying it into the strong ranged blast that it is and mostly being used as, it does break the immersion now to have to move from your spot to snipe a runner.  

 

The melee snipers it seemed to be a wash, changing front loaded damage and lowering proc rates to allow for more crit chances at lower damage and less range.  

Edited April 23, 2021 by Mezmera

[tidge]

Just now, Mezmera said:

 

To me it looks like fast snipe range may have been an issue to address more so something to do with PvP than anything in game that would seem unfair to snipe a npc running away from you.  They're solidifying it into the strong ranged blast that it is and mostly being used as, it does break the immersion now to have to move from your spot to snipe a runner. 

 

I fully admit to only casually following PVP discussions, and typically it will be in the Suggestions forum.

 

Fo anyone that doesn't want to go back to page 1, my specific annoyance extends past just the loss of the range... it is that NPC snipers (with their full range) can hit me with their (extended) ranged attacks, and when they do, I can no longer 'slow snipe' them back (at the same range), without waiting for some time period to expire. To be even more specific, I was taking fire from an enemy sniper that had run from his original group location and was sniping me from the middle of a different group (that was not aggroed). This was Council, I can only imagine how frustrating Nemesis is going to be.

 

I can think of all sorts of reasons to rationalize the game acting this way, but I don't like it... and the circumstance of mob aggro (see just above) break whatever illusion that could justify the game mechanics for me. YMMV.

[America's Angel]

23 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

The melee snipers it seemed to be a wash, changing front loaded damage and lowering proc rates to allow for more crit chances at lower damage and less range.  

 

Proc rate and base damage haven't been lowered in scrapper snipes.

[Mezmera]

36 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

Proc rate and base damage haven't been lowered in scrapper snipes.

 

•   Snipe Powers
  • Fast (in-combat) snipes have had their ranges normalized to 80ft (and 100ft for Psi)
    • Slow snipes are unaffected and retain their increased range
  • Scrapper & Stalker epic snipes only: Internal cooldown reduced from 24s to 12s
    • The internal cooldown is only used for PPM calculations, the actual power cooldown is still 24s

 

Pretty sure this was a thing they discussed in that first build on beta and since there wasn't the level of opposition to it then I'd assumed it flew in under the radar and maybe got left off the newer patch notes.  But PPM was getting cut drastically.  

[Bopper]

20 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

•   Snipe Powers
  • Fast (in-combat) snipes have had their ranges normalized to 80ft (and 100ft for Psi)
    • Slow snipes are unaffected and retain their increased range
  • Scrapper & Stalker epic snipes only: Internal cooldown reduced from 24s to 12s
    • The internal cooldown is only used for PPM calculations, the actual power cooldown is still 24s

 

Pretty sure this was a thing they discussed in that first build on beta and since there wasn't the level of opposition to it then I'd assumed it flew in under the radar and maybe got left off the newer patch notes.  But PPM was getting cut drastically.  

It was discussed. It was reverted in Build 4

 

[America's Angel]

  

6 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

•   Snipe Powers
  • Fast (in-combat) snipes have had their ranges normalized to 80ft (and 100ft for Psi)
    • Slow snipes are unaffected and retain their increased range
  • Scrapper & Stalker epic snipes only: Internal cooldown reduced from 24s to 12s
    • The internal cooldown is only used for PPM calculations, the actual power cooldown is still 24s

 

Pretty sure this was a thing they discussed in that first build on beta and since there wasn't the level of opposition to it then I'd assumed it flew in under the radar and maybe got left off the newer patch notes.  But PPM was getting cut drastically.  

 

Yeah we discussed it loads in testing. There was huge pushback to it, so it got removed.

 

That's why you don't see this in the CoD entry for the scrapper snipes anymore:

 

(On beta this was set to "Recharge Power in 12 sec" for a reduced proc rate. Now it's gone.)

[Mezmera]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:37 PM, Uruare said:

Bingo, but it's such a trivial issue that I can't see it as something to pout over.   It seems to be working as it should now in point of fact, and to have been malfunctioning before.

 

I honestly haven't been able to feel a difference on my scrapper yet anyway since the snipe isn't part of her standard attack chain.  It's an opener or a parting shot at something that's trying to run as I use it.    I immediately noticed that the crit numbers were smaller off of it, and then I proceeded directly into not worrying about it because it's supposed to crit more often now anyway, plus be fixed on the back-end to run the numbers it was supposed to in the first place.

 

It superficially feels like a small nerf because moar numbers moar better, but it isn't.   It's a molehill in a mountain of goodies.

 

Okay but their intent was to reduce the abusive damage of melee snipes so you don't just roll back a change to damage from proc'ing if it's not being accounted for elsewhere @Bopper like @Uruare is pointing out.  Overall it's a wash for the meleers snipe so meh.  

[America's Angel]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:56 PM, Mezmera said:

Okay but their intent was to reduce the abusive damage of melee snipes so you don't just roll back a change to damage from proc'ing if it's not being accounted for elsewhere @Bopper like @Uruare is pointing out.  Overall it's a wash for the meleers snipe so meh.  

 

I'm not sure why Uruare is seeing lower damage on their crits. The only reason I can think of is that they were using Zapp.

 

Prior to this update, Zapp was was erroneously using the slow snipe damage for the quick snipe attack. That has been fixed so it is now balanced with the other scrapper snipes.

Edited May 10, 2021 by America's Angel

[Mezmera]

4 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Obviously a bugfix isn't a nerf.

 

Sure but if they ever fix Bonfire make sure to relay that message to those players and tell them that their power was built off of Rise of the Phoenix and thus does crazy knockback and with a stupid enhancements it permanently knocks them back in place.  There's lots of powers that react in ways unintended and lowering that is still a nerf, bug fix or not.

 

It's trivial. 

 

And again I reiterate they wanted to lower the damage output of melee snipes so if they removed their original idea of lowering PPM they did it elsewhere.   

 

And again it's trivial.  

[Monos King]

In effort to avoid a continuous beating on one's behalf and to return to form, I'll just say it's better to acknowledge these potential misconceptions rather than argue about them. It's important to consider what others might mean rather than concentrate on what you mean so as to avoid confusion. Someone that did mean that blaster snipes were buffed could've easily framed things exactly the way you did - in an attempt to convey the total universality of the buffs - so Tidges confusion is justified. It's understandable, sometimes we arent on the same page.

 

No need to argue guys. Let's stay on topic.

[Uruare]

46 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

I'm not sure why Uruare is seeing lower damage on their crits. The only reason I can think of is that they were using Zapp.

 

Prior to this update, Zapp was was erroneously using the slow snipe damage for the quick snipe attack. That has been fixed so it is now balanced with the other scrapper snipes.

 

Obviously a bugfix isn't a nerf.

 

(And, again, the other "nerfs" to scrapper snipes that you're complaining about? They don't exist. See for yourself:  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/archetype.html?at=scrapper)

 

Bingo.  My scrapper was toodling around with Zapp.   I'm not even vaguely fussed up over it being bug fixed either.   Isn't like it's had a serious effect on anything I do anyway even if it were an intentional nerf rather than a bug fix.

 

S'all good as far as I'm concerned.

[Bopper]

25 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Sure but if they ever fix Bonfire make sure to relay that message to those players and tell them that their power was built off of Rise of the Phoenix and thus does crazy knockback and with a stupid enhancements it permanently knocks them back in place.  There's lots of powers that react in ways unintended and lowering that is still a nerf, bug fix or not.

 

It's trivial. 

 

And again I reiterate they wanted to lower the damage output of melee snipes so if they removed their original idea of lowering PPM they did it elsewhere.   

 

And again it's trivial.  

 

I will take full responsibility for Zapp and Mace Beam's bugs being fixed. During my Christmas break when I was updating Mids Reborn to have all of Issue 27 updated, I was adding a feature to Mids that would allow you to adjust your +To-Hit with a slider, that way you can see what your boosted damage would be in fast snipe form (for scrappers/stalkers, this is a base of 1.75 scale damage that could ramp up to 2.3 scale damage).

 

When updating Mids with these updates and features, I couldn't help but notice major issues with the effects of the Epic Snipes. One of them was the fact Scrapper's Zapp was doing 4.2 scale damage on their fast verions crits, however that crit chance was set to 5% on all enemies and did not increase with the Scrapper ATOs.

 

I made a bug report and passed my findings along (I forgot what was wrong with Mace Beam, but I believe my final words for the bug report were: "Mace Beam is so broken, it just needs a reset of everything", anyways back to Zapp). So now, the power works as intended. To compare the performance we can look at average damage for Zapp's crits:

 

Page 1: 5% chance for 4.2 scale damage.

Page 2: 10% chance against non-minions for 1.75-2.3 scale damage. With the passive ATO, this increases to 16% chance. With the proc ATO firing, this increases to 66% chance.

 

I won't do any major math for all the variables so I'll keep it simple:

5% of 4.2 is +0.21 scale damage on average

16% of 1.75 is +0.28 scale damage on average

 

So you could say, this is a 33.3% buff to the average crit damage bonus, if we were to assume you have the Supreme Scrapper's Strike global bonus, and you have no +To-Hit buffs.

 

If you capped your fast snipe to the 2.3 scale limit, you'll have:

16% of 2.3 is +0.368 scale on average (75% more than old Zapp).

[Mezmera]

29 minutes ago, Bopper said:

 

I will take full responsibility for Zapp and Mace Beam's bugs being fixed. During my Christmas break when I was updating Mids Reborn to have all of Issue 27 updated, I was adding a feature to Mids that would allow you to adjust your +To-Hit with a slider, that way you can see what your boosted damage would be in fast snipe form (for scrappers/stalkers, this is a base of 1.75 scale damage that could ramp up to 2.3 scale damage).

 

When updating Mids with these updates and features, I couldn't help but notice major issues with the effects of the Epic Snipes. One of them was the fact Scrapper's Zapp was doing 4.2 scale damage on their fast verions crits, however that crit chance was set to 5% on all enemies and did not increase with the Scrapper ATOs.

 

I made a bug report and passed my findings along (I forgot what was wrong with Mace Beam, but I believe my final words for the bug report were: "Mace Beam is so broken, it just needs a reset of everything", anyways back to Zapp). So now, the power works as intended. To compare the performance we can look at average damage for Zapp's crits:

 

Page 1: 5% chance for 4.2 scale damage.

Page 2: 10% chance against non-minions for 1.75-2.3 scale damage. With the passive ATO, this increases to 16% chance. With the proc ATO firing, this increases to 66% chance.

 

I won't do any major math for all the variables so I'll keep it simple:

5% of 4.2 is +0.21 scale damage on average

16% of 1.75 is +0.28 scale damage on average

 

So you could say, this is a 33.3% buff to the average crit damage bonus, if we were to assume you have the Supreme Scrapper's Strike global bonus, and you have no +To-Hit buffs.

 

If you capped your fast snipe to the 2.3 scale limit, you'll have:

16% of 2.3 is +0.368 scale on average (75% more than old Zapp).

 

Okay good and all and you helped fix something doing 4.2 crit damage scale on fast snipe to 2.3 max scale.  That is a reduction of almost half the potential crit damage that wasn't supposed to be.  

 

I'd pay no mind to something I can crit 5% more or a smidge better when you're losing half of the crit damage scale.  But it likely works out in the end over time so great, you had them fix it to what it was supposed to do.  

 

I'm not sure how scrappers play but when my stalker has her goodies ready to fire I'm using the attacks in the primary that benefit most from them and synergize with the rest, usually the AS or AoE attack, snipe is for runners and filler extreme damage blasts.  

 

I'm not arguing there wasn't a bug fix necessary but trying to say all melee snipes were better than before is not exactly accurate.  A few now have better odds to crit at half the additional crit damage. 

 

Fixed thanks!

Edited April 23, 2021 by Mezmera

[Bopper]

13 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Okay good and all and you helped fix something doing 4.2 crit damage scale on fast snipe to 2.3 max scale.  That is a reduction of half the potential crit damage that wasn't supposed to be.  

 

I'd pay no mind to something I can crit 5% more or a smidge better when you're losing half of the crit damage scale.  But it likely works out in the end over time so great, you had them fix it to what it was supposed to do.  

 

I'm not sure how scrappers play but when my stalker has her goodies ready to fire I'm using the attacks in the primary that benefit most from them and synergize with the rest, usually the AS or AoE attack, snipe is for runners and filler extreme damage blasts.  

 

I'm not arguing there wasn't a bug fix necessary but trying to say all melee snipes were better than before is not exactly accurate.  A few now have better odds to crit at half the additional crit damage. 

 

Fixed thanks!

I forgot to include the impact on slow snipe. The slow snipe had a 5% chance to crit 1.78 scale. Now it can crit 10%-16% of the time for 1.78 scale.

[Tachstar]

[DrInfernus]

I’ve got no rants about the latest patch. I see nothing to get upset about and plenty of stuff to like. 
 

I do want to have a rant and rave, though. 
 

I get to play my favourite game again - for free - within a thriving community of like-minded people and skilful players, the vast majority of which enhance my experience of the game. I am able to do that because of the efforts and dedication of the Homecoming team who gave me back my online home. Yes, there are other private servers, but it’s here where the community is. What they have built here, or rebuilt, is special. 
 

So if I want to rant and rave about anything, it’s the fact that their work is subjected to rants and raves. A few years ago, we had cause to rant and rave. We were ranting and raving about the actual death of our game; about the total abandonment by NCSoft of not only City of Heroes, but the CoH community, and long before its time. Compared to that, who cares if your scrapper snipes don’t have as much range as they once did, your rune of protection is available a little less, or you have to do a few respecs? 
 

I haven’t liked everything the devs have done - and haven’t done (Sentinels being left out on a limb and seemingly abandoned, for example) - but I won’t be ranting or raving about any of it. I’ll just continue to play the game I love with nothing but absolute gratitude to those who have resurrected it and continue to try to improve it. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by DrInfernus

[BjorJlen]

5 hours ago, DrInfernus said:

I’ve got no rants about the latest patch. I see nothing to get upset about and plenty of stuff to like. 
 

I do want to have a rant and rave, though. 
 

I get to play my favourite game again - for free - within a thriving community of like-minded people and skilful players, the vast majority of which enhance my of the game. I am able to do that because of the efforts and dedication of the Homecoming team who gave me back my online home. Yes, there are other private servers, but it’s here where the community is. What they have built here, or rebuilt, is special. 
 

So if I want to rant and rave about anything, it’s the fact that their work is subjected to rants and raves. A few years ago, we had cause to rant and rave. We were ranting and raving about the actual death of our game; about the total abandonment by NCSoft of not only City of Heroes, but the CoH community, and long before its time. Compared to that, who cares if your scrapper snipes don’t have as much range as they once did, your rune of protection is available a little less, or you have to do a few respecs? 
 

I haven’t liked everything the devs have done - and haven’t done (Sentinels being left out on a limb and seemingly abandoned, for example) - but I won’t be ranting or raving about any of it. I’ll just continue to play the game I love with nothing but absolute gratitude to those who have resurrected it and continue to try to improve it. 

 

   Amen brother...! 👍 It's not a perfect world; sometimes we forget that. And it's like my good ol' father used to say way back when... Get up, get over it, and get going...

And always try to help others along the way...

 

Peace...

[Taboo]

On 4/25/2021 at 6:27 AM, DrInfernus said:

So if I want to rant and rave about anything, it’s the fact that their work is subjected to rants and raves.

 

I get what you are saying and we all appreciate being able to play and the overall efforts of Homecoming. That said, they have clearly indicated they listen to what the community is saying and take action in part based on what is being said. If we like something we should speak up, the opposite is also at play. That's how the HC team has set the table we enjoy.

[Taboo]

I ran the Who Will Die arcs over the weekend.

 

A couple notes

1. Stances are pretty fun.
2. Combat Jumping + Super Jump doesn't feel right. Not sure if there is more control while going faster but it just didn't feel right. I stopped using both at the same time. Wish that wasn't the case.
3. Power sets are feeling a bit herky jerky rather than being buttery smooth. Not sure if this is fiddling with animation times but some sets are noticeably less smooth. Hard to describe.
4. Thumb tacks are a nice addition.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Taboo

[srmalloy]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:11 PM, tidge said:

my specific annoyance extends past just the loss of the range... it is that NPC snipers (with their full range) can hit me with their (extended) ranged attacks, and when they do, I can no longer 'slow snipe' them back (at the same range), without waiting for some time period to expire. To be even more specific, I was taking fire from an enemy sniper that had run from his original group location and was sniping me from the middle of a different group (that was not aggroed). This was Council, I can only imagine how frustrating Nemesis is going to be.

This is one of the issues I have with fast snipe ranges being cut; having snipers -- or any other long-ranged mob (I haven't tested it on HC, but back on Live, Malta Gunslingers could hit my AR/EM Blaster at the range limit for Snipe+Boost Range) attack, even if they don't hit, and cut a significant chunk out of my range gnaws at me -- particularly since snipes, fast or slow, still give the temporary range boost, so where I could hang at range with a fast snipe in the rotation to use the range increase on other attacks while the snipe recharged, now I have to get into the same base range as my other attacks to use the fast snipe, making the range boost from snipes functionally useless unless I can get the snipe back up inside the window of the range increase. And even then, to take advantage of it means that I have to be shifting in and out, wasting some of the up time on the range increase on moving.