Right Click > Challenge to Duel

[Ston]

While I know this feature is very unpopular in some other MMO's, something about superheroes sparring with each other around Atlas Park just seems awesome. Maybe I just have troll tendencies, but there is something fun about getting confused during a BAF or by a Succubus and being able to attack teammates. 

 

I could be way wrong, but wouldn't you just be able to put two characters in a 'confused' state where they are flagged as enemies only for each other? I don't know how this would be affected by PVP rules, but I'd imagine powers would use PVE rules since it would be in a PVE setting. I'd also imagine this would be some kind of instance that either player could quit from at any time.

 

I used to PVP a lot during live and one of my favorite things to do would be to sit in that corner of Siren's Call and watch or participate in 1v1 duels. I think this would also add a fun PVP element for players that don't want to use the Arena interface or make a meta-optimized build on Indomitable. 

[MTeague]

I have no objection to such a feature being added as long as I can set it to auto decline any duel offer without ever causing a popup or notifications at all.  And rather than spitting out some kind of auto-deline message to the challenger, having it set to refuse all duels should just GRAY OUT the challenge to duel option for any prospective challengers while they have me targetted. That way they know right up front I ain't interested and would never accept, without any need for tells or other pestering me with repeated challenge offers.

Edited May 27, 2021 by MTeague

[Ston]

8 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I have no objection to such a feature being added as long as I can set it to auto decline any duel offer without ever causing a popup or notifications at all.  And rather than spitting out some kind of auto-deline message to the challenger, having it set to refuse all duels should just GRAY OUT the challenge to duel option for any prospective challengers while they have me targetted. That way they know right up front I ain't interested and would never accept, without any need for tells or other pestering me with repeated challenge offers.

 

 

For sure. I figured the biggest issue with this kind of system would be players griefing others by spamming invites. Some kind of 'Enable dueling' option in settings could probably solve a lot of that. 

[Mezmera]

48 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I have no objection to such a feature being added as long as I can set it to auto decline any duel offer without ever causing a popup or notifications at all.  And rather than spitting out some kind of auto-deline message to the challenger, having it set to refuse all duels should just GRAY OUT the challenge to duel option for any prospective challengers while they have me targetted. That way they know right up front I ain't interested and would never accept, without any need for tells or other pestering me with repeated challenge offers.

 

But what if they come up and smack you with their glove?  Would there be no way to bait you into a duel?  What if they start talking about your momma?

[MTeague]

Just now, Mezmera said:

 

But what if they come up and smack you with their glove?  Would there be no way to bait you into a duel?  What if they start talking about your momma?

I'd ignore them and zone into my next mission. I know, I know, I'm a cheater like that.

[Yomo Kimyata]

What's the problem we are trying to solve?  It seems to me that if two players want to fight, they can go straight to a PvP zone.

[Ston]

2 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

What's the problem we are trying to solve?  It seems to me that if two players want to fight, they can go straight to a PvP zone.

 

It's just a suggestion to add an additional PVP element outside of PVP zones that could be fun for some players. I don't think every suggestion needs to be solving a problem. I mean there are plenty of problems with the current PVP meta that could deter some players from trying it.. but that's a different discussion.  

[Mezmera]

10 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

What's the problem we are trying to solve?  It seems to me that if two players want to fight, they can go straight to a PvP zone.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a brawl just all of a sudden break out in front of me if it's all agreed upon.  It'd be fun to feel the mounting tension in the atmosphere with their big girl chatter and then the gauntlet gets thrown down right in front of Mis Lib.  Hopefully I get some popcorn ready in time for the festivities.  

[Coyotedancer]

It's annoying in Aion and it would be equally annoying here.

[TemporalVileTerror]

This feature already exists.
Little known commands:

/arenalist

/ai $target

 

BAM!  You are now issuing a challenge to duel another player which you have targeted.

Enjoy!

[America's Angel]

I would love this, but I'm a PvPer so I'm biased.

 

I imagine the idea is probably a non-starter, though. It would change how City of Heroes "feels" too much. If there's people PvPing right next to a costume contest/at an RP party/at a Hamidon raid/in the middle of a task force/etc, then the "tone" of the game changes. Suddenly environments that are chill become competitive. (And if there's one thing I've learned promoting PvP events in CoH...it's that the vast vast majority of people playing this game really hate competitive environments.)

 

If you have a free evening, go and spend it in Recluse's Victory on Indomitable. Read the Broadcast channel. And then ask yourself if you want Atlas Park broadcast to be like that 24/7. Because that is what this change would lead to IMO.

Edited May 28, 2021 by America's Angel

[SeraphimKensai]

As an old time retired PvPer this would be interesting for sure. Sadly I don't see it flying as I've never encountered an MMO that offered some form of PvP having such a large portion of the player base despise it so much.

 

I've never understood that but it is what it is.

 

[srmalloy]

17 hours ago, America's Angel said:

And if there's one thing I've learned promoting PvP events in CoH...it's that the vast vast majority of people playing this game really hate competitive environments.

Back in May 2004 when I joined the game, one of the things that recommended it to me was the fact that it didn't have PvP. It got added later, first with the arenas, and then with CoV, but I still avoid it as much as possible, my experience with PvP being that it tends to be populated with people whose only way to validate their "leet skillz" as a gamer is how fast their level-capped combat god with BiS gear can gank characters fresh out of the tutorial area.

Edited May 28, 2021 by srmalloy

[SwitchFade]

I loath pvp.

 

I absolutely do not want to witness it in non pvp zones or ever want to convert non pvp zones in any way to anything pvp.

 

Sorry, no vote 

[golstat2003]

If you right click and send duel to someone, and they accept, then let it teleport them both to the arena setup kiosk in the arena. There you have your duel option, and no one else has to see it. 🙂 

Edited May 28, 2021 by golstat2003

[Ston]

19 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

If you right click and send duel to someone, and they accept, then let it teleport them both to the arena setup kiosk in the arena. There you have your duel option, and no one else has to see it. 🙂 

 

I think that's a great idea. Even better would be if it would teleport you into an arena instance without having to deal with any of the arena ui window. Just you and them loading in a standard map.

[XaoGarrent]

18 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

As an old time retired PvPer this would be interesting for sure. Sadly I don't see it flying as I've never encountered an MMO that offered some form of PvP having such a large portion of the player base despise it so much.

 

I've never understood that but it is what it is.

 

Primarily PvE games that shoehorn in PvP generally have horrible design issues and imbalances due to the game's systems never being designed or balanced for a player versus player experience, thus they attract the sort of people who seek to play games where it's possible to obtain a vastly unfair advantage without cheating, basically. This is ESPECIALLY true of games with RPG mechanics.

 

Most MMOs have large amounts of... Let's just say less than nice people that love abusing whatever is utterly and completely broken and imbalanced in PvP, especially if it allows them to make other players miserable. MMO PvP (and for that matter MOBAs) has always been a magnet for egotistical and childish people who aren't skillful enough for shooters, fighting games, or any other genre where a reasonable degree of fairness is commonly built into the foundation of games at a base level.

 

City of Heroes largely lacks these sorts of people. The same reason you don't run into a lot of griefers in PvE is why so many seem to despise PvP.

 

The original devs were right to largely ignore PvP. Attempts to fix PvP specific imbalances angered PvE players if they were effected by them somehow (and rightfully so), and the PvPers almost universally rejected such changes because so many of them are in it to abuse the really broken stuff.

 

Time and resources are simply better spent elsewhere.

 

_{Disclaimer: Nothing about genres here is universal, only typical. Warframe, a PvE shooter with optional PvP, actually has this exact same problem, and the developers have taken largely the same route of ignoring it for the same reasons listed above.}

Edited May 28, 2021 by XaoGarrent

[Haijinx]

/jranger has refused your duel request.

[GraspingVileTerror]

If a "Challenge to Duel" feature -is- added, then it should be accompanied by an "Ignore all Duel Requests" option.  And it should probably be set to Ignore All by default, in my perspective.  PvPers can opt-in, rather than everyone else having to opt-out.

[Mezmera]

Yes the game was developed as originally a game where you just straight fight npcs.  Lots in this game changed over time, you have the IO system, Incarnates, cross morality teaming.  Then they had to have realized they should at least have some areas for PvP since MMOs are supposed to be somewhat ambitious.  Those that loathe pvp that's fine do your thing but why couldn't there be all avenues of play for anyone that wants to play this game?  

 

My gripe like most is how different powers interact between pve and pvp and how many just cookie cutter pvp builds are only viable.  Make blaster, add proc, go pew pew pretty much sums it up at the moment.  At the sunset they started to revamp the whole thing for better and worse and it seems the worst parts after live have just been so exaggerated to where I kind of enjoyed it to now what's the point if you're not a select few types of toons.  

 

Like AE, PvP is player driven where there'd always be fresh content.  And Just like AE the devs just couldn't wrap their heads around how they wanted to fully implement it.  You could tell though that was the thinking was to be able to stand off a bit from the expectation of adding so much new content and just allow people to create their own experience through AE and PvP.  Both are still in their infancy with their growth stunted thanks to the shut down.  

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mezmera

[America's Angel]

2 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

The original devs were right to largely ignore PvP. Attempts to fix PvP specific imbalances angered PvE players if they were effected by them somehow (and rightfully so), and the PvPers almost universally rejected such changes because so many of them are in it to abuse the really broken stuff.

 

Just wanted to correct this: the reason PvPers largely rejected the live devs changes is because those changes were bad, not because PvPers wanted to "abuse broken stuff". PvPers in CoH have a vested interest in good game balance. Because a well balanced game is a competitive one.

 

You can see this in the beta testing discord - many of the changes PvPers are currently asking for are nerfs to overperforming powers. (Such as the fortunata chance to placate proc.) And many of the changes we've already seen implemented have been nerfs to overperforming powers - every single one being something we asked for.

 

The idea that PvPers just want to "abuse the broken stuff" might apply to other games, but it doesn't here.

Edited May 28, 2021 by America's Angel

[Monos King]

I would be very much for this. Would be great for casual PvP, and another method of giving people exposure to it as well. Being able to PvP from what's essentially their front door would be a good incentive for people that just don't want to go out of their way to incorporate it into their glancing fun time.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Monos King said:

I would be very much for this. Would be great for casual PvP, and another method of giving people exposure to it as well.

 

See, the second part's part of the problem. Some people don't *want* exposure to it. They don't want to be pestered by it, they don't like PVP, they don't want to see it breaking out in the middle of Atlas or while waiting for a mission or whatever. Or even having to wait while the people involved get TP'd to the arena to fight it out and come back - holding up the rest of the team.

 

I'm ... solidly "eh" on it. I'm fine with going to an arena or a zone set up for it. The fights I get into there are with other people expecting to fight, in a zone set up for fighting, and the people who don't want to see it aren't around. I wouldn't argue with being able to get bases "pvp validated/activated" (though it'd restrict a lot of build options in those bases,) or getting more maps - even "pvp echoes" of some zone locations (like the front of city hall in atlas. But this "Click and duel anywhere in the world" ... can't really say I'm for it.

[Greycat]

2 minutes ago, Night said:

Greycat, give the contrarian soapboxing a rest for a while.

 

 

If I have an opinion, I will state it. Whether you like it or not.

[Monos King]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

See, the second part's part of the problem. Some people don't *want* exposure to it.

That's ok. Theoretically there would be the option to opt out or have an auto-decline option. Should work out for everyone.

 

As for the second part with the not wanting to even see it break out...I'm gonna have to put that under a solid "too bad". If other people want to have this kind of thing in the game, and it's not mandatory to partake in or even receive invitations for, I can't see that mattering in the slightest. The game doesn't revolve around anti pvp sentiment. It'd be pretty damn selfish of anyone to attempt to deny what could be a fun addition for others just because they don't want to see it. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Monos King