Mechanics that make sense in real life and P&P RPGs, but don't work in video games

[Sunsette]

Non-binary state mezzing would require a lot more careful balancing and tweaking of numbers than we ever got, since 'death spirals' are a known issue in games that have heavy debuffing. But it would be nice. 

[Blackfeather]

...I like how status effects currently work. 😐

[Herotu]

Communication. You can chat to whole maps - you can't do that in pen and paper games.

With VOIP you can talk to anybody on any map.

 

That might not be a bad thing, but when you think about how cool it might be to have to send a message via a courier, then wait. It's like life before mobile phones!

[InvaderStych]

11 hours ago, Lockpick said:

Ice Cream > Pie > Cookies > Cake.

 

How much recharge do I need to run this gapless?

[DoctorDitko]

I like how a level 1 hero can toggle on an inherent power (Sprint et al.) and do a standing broad jump over a 2-lane highway. I can't think of a GM that would let you do that, and I know Real Life 1.0* doesn't!

 

 

* Talk about a game in need of a balancing pass! And don't get me started on the enforced permadeath!

[RikOz]

9 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

I like how a level 1 hero can toggle on an inherent power (Sprint et al.) and do a standing broad jump over a 2-lane highway. I can't think of a GM that would let you do that, and I know Real Life 1.0* doesn't!

Heh - when the live game shut down and I went back to WoW, my first several days back were spent being extremely frustrated every time my character (on a horse!) couldn't clear a waist-high picket fence!

[biostem]

11 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

How much recharge do I need to run this gapless?

Just hope that you don't have the "lactose intolerance" debuff on you at the time...

[Techwright]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:28 PM, Lockpick said:

 

I can't really disagree with this logic.  I may actually have to go Pie > Cookies > Cake.  Hmm, if you add Ice Cream to the mix though it is more like Ice Cream > Pie > Cookies > Cake.

 

Donuts, my good man/woman/small furry creature from Alpha Centauri, your list needs donuts.  😋  (And personally, most cookies would rank higher on my list, assuming they're fresh and not some cold, hard biscuit-in-a-box kind of stuff)

[Sunsette]

To go back to the topic question (since I think we're kinda discussing the opposite with the mez) -- meta-narrative mechanics: FATE Points, Force Points, Destiny Points, Action Points, Hero Points, etc. do not translate well to MMOs at all. 

[biostem]

A flashlight that only works for about 30 secs at a time, but can recharge indefinitely once switched off...

[Eldyem]

20 hours ago, biostem said:

A flashlight that only works for about 30 secs at a time, but can recharge indefinitely once switched off...

 

To be fair, I have one of those shake weight-esque flashlights and this is genuinely what it feels like to use it in real life.

[biostem]

15 minutes ago, Eldyem said:

To be fair, I have one of those shake weight-esque flashlights and this is genuinely what it feels like to use it in real life.

Now I'm imagining Gordon Freeman headbanging in order to recharge his flashlight...

[Naraka]

On 6/28/2021 at 8:11 AM, Shred Monkey said:

I would argue that control powers don't really translate very well to non-turned base games.   If you don't overlap your controls to perma-lockdown a combatant from the fight, the enemy just hits you the instant they recover, usually with their biggest attack.   Given that NPC attacks have cooldowns and they have large gaps in their attack chains, it's not uncommon that a knockdown that took an enemy out of the fight for 3 seconds did almost nothing at all since the enemy just got up and immediately used all the attacks that came off cooldown while it was down.   If the enemy is missing 75%+ of the time, the odds that any incoming damage was mitigated by a knockdown is even more unlikely.   And if you do have a setup to perma-lockdown enemies from a fight,.. well that's just as broken in the other direction, although most games accept this as being OK to make up for the lack of mitigation when you do not perma-lockdown an opponent.

 

CoH has implemented many patches and attempts to fine-tune the way controls function with varying degrees of success.  But I still feel that despite the fact that controls are a staples part of the superhero genre and P&P RPGs, they really fail to be a significant part of this game outside of a few highly specialized examples.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

You don't have to perma-lockdown a foe for it to make a difference.  In many cases, like Guildwars 2, using stuns/knockdowns opens a foe up for more damage to the point you're literally *waiting* for the period that you can stun a boss to unload on it because any other time is more dangerous and more prone to failure since you have to be attacking and not running around trying not to die and that's not even mentioning the various gears/traits that increase damage against foes that are locked down.  In Blade and Soul, they have specific classes that utilize control as a class feature to provide utility to a team, specifically the Destroyer and Blade Dancer (unsure of what else they have since I haven't played in years) who can literally hold a foe (hold as in grab them and choke them in the air) and they have traits that give anyone who attacks their choked target chi-return, extra damage and then there is the aerial launch that renders a foe helpless in the air which is the only time you can use certain aerial attacks and buffs.  Then, they usually time the use of these features to coincide with certain boss attack patterns so as to bypass certain AI attacks.

 

The problem in CoH is the whole "missing 75% of the time" part.  In any other game, standing still in a group of enemies is actually dangerous.  In most non-turn based games, a tank has to actually *work* to do their job and use mechanics to dodge and block attacks rather than it being mostly automatic.

 

And if perma-lockdown is broken, how is 95% dodge rate not?

[kiramon]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:34 PM, Sunsette said:

 

It still is, it's just not a role-per-se, which tbh I think has largely been for the best. CC is *incredibly* important in Mythic Dungeons in WoW, for example, but DPS and Heals both are likely to carry CC while tanks basically never do or have a very limited capacity for them. Generally while control is incredibly important for dealing with groups (that is to say, crowds), sooner or later virtually all games have hard bosses that include a patchwerk phase -- go ham DPS as hard as you can without anyone dying. And controllers in CoX have always been in an awkward situation with those in the form of AVs and giant monsters.

No it’s not. 19+ You don’t CC, except maybe an inspiring mob or two. Outside of that your most important CC is interrupt, followed by abilities that help kite. 
 

😕

 

EQ2 was fairly good with mezzing originally but fell into a DPS trap too. Illusionists were super fun at launch, using haste buffs, mana restoration and aoe mezzing things. They still do a little of it but its not like it used to be 

[Sunsette]

2 hours ago, kiramon said:

No it’s not. 19+ You don’t CC, except maybe an inspiring mob or two. Outside of that your most important CC is interrupt, followed by abilities that help kite. 
 

😕

 

EQ2 was fairly good with mezzing originally but fell into a DPS trap too. Illusionists were super fun at launch, using haste buffs, mana restoration and aoe mezzing things. They still do a little of it but its not like it used to be 

 

I wasn't really thinking about polymorph, etc. but stuns/slows/roots, which do fit the fast pace of high key mythic+ much better (though I do think it could be slowed down a tad; I know where you're coming from). 

[oedipus_tex]

Wound systems. To this day I have seen that work well in only two games. 

• Gemstone III/IV
• Dragonrealms

 

Both of these games are ancient text based games created by the Simutronics corporaton (and oddly enough both are still around). Both were at their most popular in the late 90s and very early 2000s as part of AOL subscription services. Dragonrealms is an indirect sequel to Gemstone, and builds on the wound system created for that game.

 

In these games, although you have hit points, when you take damage, it's to a hand, leg, arm, or somewhere else. Take too much damage on a vital body part? Well, you're insta-dead. This system ties into an elaborate healing and resurrection system that is far more complex than any graphical MMO. Healers (called "Empaths") cannot heal you directly with a spell, instead they must transfer your wounds to themselves and then use magic to heal themselves. Part of the art of playing an Empath is transferring wounds safely so you don't take too much damage on a vital body part and literally die from overhealing.

 

I don't know that that could ever work in a graphical game. I'm not sure it entirely works in Gemstoneor or Dragonrealms for that matter. But those game's entire combat experience is built around that, and critical-ly hitting your opponents without being critical-ed back.

[Luminara]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:50 AM, RikOz said:

What are some "game mechanics" that never (or rarely) work in video games, even though they work just fine in real life and in pencil & paper games like D&D?

 

I can get naked IRL.  I can describe myself stripping down to my birthday suit in a tabletop game.  But in video games, I can't seem to get all of my clothes off, no matter what I do.  I have to get someone else to undress me (nude mods).

[Hew]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:01 PM, SwitchFade said:

Cake.

 

Cake never works, because pie>cake.

 

Discuss.

Llama would disagree, as he? first destroys the universe with too much cake, and then too much pie.

 

[Luminara]

6 minutes ago, Hew said:

Llama would disagree, as he? first destroys the universe with too much cake, and then too much pie.

 

 

And now we have a universe with this.

 

I wonder if that could be done with cheesecake...

[Arbegla]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

I can get naked IRL.  I can describe myself stripping down to my birthday suit in a tabletop game.  But in video games, I can't seem to get all of my clothes off, no matter what I do.  I have to get someone else to undress me (nude mods).

 

Something about indecent exposure comes to mind. And M rated games.

[kiramon]

On 7/1/2021 at 12:48 PM, Luminara said:

 

I can get naked IRL.  I can describe myself stripping down to my birthday suit in a tabletop game.  But in video games, I can't seem to get all of my clothes off, no matter what I do.  I have to get someone else to undress me (nude mods).

But but Conan games!!