Evasive Maneuvers speed suppression on Hover

[RogueWolf]

I'm one of these guys who goes to Pocket D first thing to turn off speed buffs. So I have a love-hate relationship with the new flight pool.

 

I'd love to keep Evasive Maneuvers on my flyers during a mission for the -fly resist without the constant stop-go-stop-go trying to navigate tight corners at 40-freakin MPH like I'm on a roller coaster. Hover+Swift was more than fine. Any IO set bonsues I got were small enough to be no big deal. But as it is now, I keep Swift unslotted because every little bit that can slow me down helps.

 

Ideally I'd want to ask Null to make it so that the EM speed buff applies only to FLY, not Hover.

 

Sidebar: I feel the same way about Incarnate/Musculature tbh. I'd prefer going the Radial branch for the other bonuses beyond dmg, but the run speed buff that I can't shut off drives me insane. Why is that even in there?

Edited July 15, 2021 by RogueWolf

[Outrider_01]

You can run Hover/Fly/Evasive all at the same time, you stop on a dime and ask for change.  Speed with cornering of Fast and the Furious plus the status protection of Evasive.  Don't even glide around corners.

[RogueWolf]

I have no idea what you just said.  I'm guessing that you like the speed, so cool. That's why I'm suggesting it as an option in Null for those who don't.

 

The original devs put speed suppression Null the Gull for a reason. When you move too fast it is hard for a lot of people to navigate. They overshoot targets. The motion is jerky and frustrating. That much speed is just not needed between mobs.

[arcane]

The devs put suppression on Speed Boost and only Speed Boost because (1) players couldn’t control if someone else boosted them combined with (2) it really makes you zoom around.

 

I would say neither (1) or (2) is a problem here because Hover is no zoom zoom power, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on (2) and try to imagine you Hovering too quickly to control. Still, because (1) is a nonissue here and you are free to detoggle any power causing you problems, I’d have to say this won’t happen. Null is a clunky way of fixing the game’s most persistently annoying predicaments, and this doesn’t meet the high standard necessary to justify a Null option.

[Apparition]

18 hours ago, RogueWolf said:

Sidebar: I feel the same way about Incarnate/Musculature tbh. I'd prefer going the Radial branch for the other bonuses beyond dmg, but the run speed buff that I can't shut off drives me insane. Why is that even in there?

 

 

Some of us find the speed buff in Musculature Radial and Agility Radial helpful.  Most of my characters take Agility Radial Alpha instead of Agility Core Alpha for it. 

[RogueWolf]

It's always bizarre what people argue against as "not a problem" and then you give unreasonable workarounds that don't solve the complaint. Do the devs actually read this forum, or am I only talking to people who don't give a crap about their fellow players concerns? Replies like those above are why most people probably don't even bother with their feedback.

 

The Evasive Maneuvers has a very useful -fly and -immobilize protect now. I want to keep it toggled on for that reason. But the downside is that it makes hover way to flipping fast. No, it's not game breaking, but it's extremely aggravating. I know I wasn't the only one who raised this concern in the focused feedback thread at the time.

 

But some people like going that fast indoors (for reasons I will never understand, but God love you).  So it should be an option. Null seems the ideal solution. I would definitely describe it as "persistently annoying" to the same level as most of the other things that Null resolves.

Edited July 15, 2021 by RogueWolf

[arcane]

22 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

It's always bizarre what people argue against as "not a problem" and then you give unreasonable workarounds that don't solve the complaint. Do the devs actually read this forum, or am I only talking to people who don't give a crap about their fellow players concerns? Replies like those above are why most people probably don't even bother with their feedback.

 

The Evasive Maneuvers has a very useful -fly and -immobilize protect now. I want to keep it toggled on for that reason. But the downside is that it makes hover way to flipping fast. No, it's not game breaking, but it's extremely aggravating. I know I wasn't the only one who raised this concern in the focused feedback thread at the time.

 

But some people like going that fast indoors (for reasons I will never understand, but God love you).  So it should be an option. Null seems the ideal solution. I would definitely describe it as "persistently annoying" to the same level as most of the other things that Null resolves.

Null is for stuff that can’t be resolved any other way, and the devs are justifiably reluctant to just throw new features at Null over just any ole problem. Every other power-suppressing feature in Null’s options had literally no other way for players to address the problem because it was 100% out of their control. This literally does not meet that standard because it’s you liking one effect of one of your own toggles but not another. There are tons of scenarios that fit that description, and every single one of them has a solution fully within the player’s control: if you don’t like a toggle’s effectS, you can turn it off.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

 

Some of us find the speed buff in Musculature Radial and Agility Radial helpful.  Most of my characters take Agility Radial Alpha instead of Agility Core Alpha for it. 

Speaking of liking things selectively, I’d consider Agility Radial (or Core?) if not for that pesky proc-rate-ruining recharge enhancement. But of course the solution here is not for a bird to max out my proc rates; no, unfortunately, how this works is I just don’t pick the power I have a problem with.

Edited July 15, 2021 by arcane

[RogueWolf]

29 minutes ago, arcane said:

 if you don’t like a toggle’s effectS, you can turn it off.

 

Which causes me to lose point in taking taking the power in the first place. Yeah that's an awesome workaround. Thanks.

 

Again... I am NOT the only weirdo who raised this as a concern during focused feedback. A lot of people do not like the speed boost. Fine, don't use Null to fix it. It still seems ideal to me, and I can't help but question your assumption about it's purpose and dev motivation for wanting to use him or not, but whatever.

 

In the blind hope that this suggestion is actually making it to the GMs and I'm not wasting my time... I'd like to be able to keep this power toggled on for the benefits without having the very aggravating speed boost along with it. I am hoping there is some way to address it.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, RogueWolf said:

 

Which causes me to lose point in taking taking the power in the first place. Yeah that's an awesome workaround. Thanks.

Well, yeah, exactly, one would wonder why you would pick a power you don’t want the boosts from. 

[RogueWolf]

BECAUSE OF THE -FLY PROTECT!!!!!

[Super Atom]

I'm thoroughly confused, are you saying 36 MPH is too hard to control in maps? That's only 3 higher than having sprint on.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, RogueWolf said:

BECAUSE OF THE -FLY PROTECT!!!!!

One of its multiple boosts, yes, I got that. Great LotG slot too. But it sounds like your con is so overwhelmingly frustrating to you that the power is an overall loser on your pro-con analysis, IMO.

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I'm thoroughly confused, are you saying 36 MPH is too hard to control in maps? That's only 3 higher than having sprint on.

I was running Mystic Flight once instead of Super Speed on a Speed TF and my teammates all made fun of me 😞 

[RogueWolf]

6 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I'm thoroughly confused, are you saying 36 MPH is too hard to control in maps? That's only 3 higher than having sprint on.

 

I don't have sprint on during combat either for the same reason. I actually told Kins to NOT drop speed boost on my melee toons before Null back in the day.

 

 It's not impossible to control but it's aggravating in a lot of situations. So call it a quality of life suggestion.

[Outrider_01]

9 hours ago, RogueWolf said:

I have no idea what you just said.  I'm guessing that you like the speed, so cool. That's why I'm suggesting it as an option in Null for those who don't.

I have no idea what you are saying.

 

Is it drift?  Its litterly stops on a dime now, flight doesn't keep moving if you have the other 2 toggles running.

 

Is it because you can't compensate?  Sure, ok, that makes sense.  But the speed is negligble if you just take your finger off the E key and learn to compensate so your movement isn't face first into the wall.  Flight now is easier to comepensate over SB, simply because your character stops so quickly.

[Replacement]

Folks... you guys are really starting to show why other communities think this one is exclusive and hostile.

 

RogueWolf's suggestion doesn't impact you in any way, so what is the point of posting multiple times about how unnecessary it is?  It's not your place to decide what the devs think is worthy of their time, so the only meaningful commentary is either developmental roadblocks or explaining repercussions it could have. 

 

You're good people, I know it from other threads.  Take a sec to assess what you're accomplishing here?

[Bopper]

Arcane already stated this but I will reiterate it. Null the Gull is for handling inconveniences outside the control of a player, such as having someone buff you with speed boost, someone teleporting you, someone buffing you with Mystic Fortune, etc. All of those scenarios are to prevent somebody else putting your character into a state you don't wish to be in.

 

In this case, the state you're in is your choice. Much like when I am in Granite Armor it is my choice. Sure, I don't like being debuffed and I don't like being slow and unable to jump, but I choose to accept something I don't want for something I do want (Resistance, Defense and mez protection). Your example is slightly different as many find the speed to be a benefit, not a detriment, but nonetheless the point is the same: you choose to use the power for better or worse (+Fly, protections vs. Fly too fast). The fact it is your choice to be in that state is the reason why it is something Null the Gull would not be populated with.

 

On the other hand,, you do bring up a point that I think could be actionable. If you feel as though you need to turn off Evasive Maneuvers periodically strictly for slowing yourself down, you could make an argument for having EvMa be a 0s recharge so that you can maintain instant control on when you do and do not want the extra flight speed. Currently, the 10s recharge (iirc) would cause you to reconsider turning it off in fear of it not being available again when you need it. It's not much, but it's something to consider. 

[arcane]

12 hours ago, Replacement said:

It's not your place to decide what the devs think is worthy of their time

Nobody does this because nobody has to. Devs post here with the players and have in some form since ‘04. It is not hard to extrapolate some of their stances from their own catalog of statements. I don’t have quotes on hand at the moment but I’m positive Null being an undesirable last resort fix is not something I just made up.

[RogueWolf]

Wow. So the concession of the 7337 player base is shut up and cope and learn to play better.

 

As I said...so don't use Null to fix it. Maybe there is another way.

 

Though none of these arguments is very compelling as to why you can't use Null. Every response could have been equally applied to players having to deal with speed boost buff from Kins or not wanting to have to click accept on mystic fortune all the time. You keep forgetting where you are in the portal jockey badge? Use a spreadsheet. Don't like group fly working as designed?  Cope and learn to play better. Everything has a workaround. Everything is a "choice." That is not a solution to the problem.

 

Evasive maneuvers on hover is NOT negligible to everyone. It's worth repeating that I was NOT the only idiot who complained about this during beta. It is an annoying side effect of an otherwise very useful power and not an unreasonable request of the GMs to consider. Hopefully they have. 

[arcane]

If *this* inconvenience meets the Null threshold, thousands of others do too. Sounds downright awful.

 

And way to make it blatantly obvious you didn’t read or comprehend a single one of the responses. Being speed boosted by someone else without your own consent is a choice to the same extent turning a toggle on/off is a choice? Maybe if you’re one of those 2+2=5 types.

Edited July 18, 2021 by arcane

[RageusQuitus2]

11 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

Though none of these arguments is very compelling as to why you can't use Null

Coding time my friend.  Realize you are having a tough time with this but alot of arguments come to coding time vs better than nothing.  So is it perfect no.  Is it better than nothing?  Fuck yes!

[Outrider_01]

Still trying to understand what the entire issue is for the OP.  Can you dumb it down for me

 

Drift ? Flight, half the reason I hated it.

 

Speed and stop on a dime ? Thank you hover stacking and evasive.

 

Literally from what I gather, OP likes hover Speed which stops on a dime.  Is it the tiny +Speed that evasive gives, that is the problem. 

 

Because like hover, Flight stops on a dime with Evasive and the other factor is the tiny boost it gives to Speed, as flight was so slow I hated it without heavy slot investment.

[Zepp]

I have a toon with Hover+Evasive which gives me around 55 flight in and out of combat. Really smooth, and if I need to travel excessive distances I can hit TP. I really enjoy the lack of speed suppression during combat and just wish I could get a tad bit more speed out of it without sacrificing so much...

[TheZag]

I dont enjoy having the extra flight control so i turn off combat jumping when i fly so i can understand his complaint.

 

Having evasive maneuvers at a 0 second cooldown could solve some of his issues if used with binds to turn it off when a movement key is pressed and on when its released.