What's Your Opinion on Edgelords/Edgier Characters?

[_Kai_]

9 hours ago, teamtr said:

EDIT: All this talk about magical girl anime is bringing back memories. Have you guys watched Revolutionary Girl Utena? You should watch that if you haven't. My favorite anime of all time, hands-down.

If only we got series story with movie designs, alas....

[Blackbird71]

19 hours ago, Triumphant said:

I don't really know what the definition of the phrase is.  To me, it sounds like someone trying to make a character like Frank Castle/The Punisher, but they just come off sounding like an moody teenager with superpowers.  🤷‍♂️

That's pretty much it, yes.

[Triumphant]

I guess, after reading the replies in this topic, it could be said that the "Edgelord" is merely one more trope in a genre that is perhaps the tropiest of all genres.  Comic books are often an inherently ridiculous medium, so perhaps it's unfair of us to view characters with melodramatic, over-the-top personalities with contempt.

 

Hopefully, we can bring something new and interesting to these old tropes when we do use them- or at least not overrepresent one particular trope, so that it doesn't become ubiquitous to the point of blandness.  Cat-girls come to mind here, more than Edgelords (for me, at least), as I see so many of them in-game and they often have a fairly generic personality and appearance that I have seen a thousand, thousand times in numerous anime.

 

On the other hand, I have played my share of batman/superman/spiderman/captain america clones, which are perhaps as regurgitated in the American Comic scene as cat-girls are in the manga, so who am I to judge?  Whatever one plays, if they play the part with dedication and skill, that is worth appreciating (and acknowledging). 

[Crystal Dragon]

*plops into a comfy chair and settles right in.* Alright, so dark/edgelord styled characters eh? I can't say I have a whole lot to say about them as a character concept, but I can say I've had a lot of experiences with them over the years. Tragic character backgrounds tend to temper a type of attitude and sometimes it goes a bit further than it really has to, just to push the point that HEY this character has a bad ass story, yall should check ME out. *shakes their head and shrugs.* I kind of treat every character the same on introductions, give them a chance to impress, or create an impression of themselves on mine as one would greet others and create a positive or negative impression during that introductory meetup. 

 

I knew players of Drizzt Do'rden, Wolverine, Leon S Kennedy, Allucard, the original Brom Stokers version of Dracula to name just a few. The only one out of the bunch that was played over the top, was Leon, and Allucard, but Allucard was generally overplayed when he was "Unleashed" anyway by Hellsing in the series, so it really fit in and made sense of the character concept as a whole. I rather enjoy darker characters, hell, can even say they draw me out like a moth to flame, they just fascinate the hell out of me as a player, but most of my characters tend to be dancing on the edges of dark and hero/sage types, simply cause it fits me, and my many personalities. (_{And yes I said many. D.I.D. is something I live with, and I allow my alters their freedom to roll what they feel most attuned to which has me *peers at their roster and sighs heavily* at about 20 characters now?)} 

 

As long as the character doesn't godmode, or break others lore and backstories, I have zero issues with dark and edgelord characters, as long as they play respectful of others character creations and backstories too. 

[GraspingVileTerror]

Not to discount any of the other impactful contributions from other community members in this thread, but I just want to express special kudos to three of you:
 
@teamtr:  Thank you for this thread.  Thank you!
@TwoDee:  Might I be able to do anything to encourage you to post more often?  On a few occasions now you've been able to encapsulate thoughts I've had much more efficiently than I could (particularly some key points in that recruitment thread from June).  More, please.
@Kelri Irris:  Big round of applause for you too!
  
My personal view is kind of a combination of the three of yours.  I think if I were to try to add anything further, then I might be crossing the line in to "overshare" territory.  I'll do it, but only if enough people actually want to see that sort of thing.

[TwoDee]

13 hours ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

Might I be able to do anything to encourage you to post more often?  On a few occasions now you've been able to encapsulate thoughts I've had much more efficiently than I could (particularly some key points in that recruitment thread from June).  More, please.

 

Me having things to say is contingent on the level of discourse of the forums!  I can't exactly pull incisive hot takes out of my ass, I need proper foreplay to go off on my screeds 😉

[GraspingVileTerror]

Not sure if scathing takedown of existing content on the forums at large  . . . 

[Arctique]

There's nothing really wrong with dark/edgy/angsty characters and concepts themselves, with the right player they can be fantastic. A lot of the stigma of "Edgelord" characters comes less from the character themselves, but the how and why their player presents them. I always saw it as primarily being a craving for attention, and lack of self awareness that separates an Edgelord from somebody that just wants to RP a darker character theme. An edgelord is typically just following what they feel is "really cool and badass" and think it will get others to look at them and go "wow, they're really cool and badass!"

 

But to be honest, I don't think there's anything really wrong with that either, as a lot of the time these more edgelord-y characters are just young and/or less experienced roleplayers. Not all the time, all generalizations are false after all, but I've found that to be the most common, especially when myself and just about everyone I know behaved the same sort of way when they were young and new to the idea of roleplaying. I almost see it as a rite of passage at this point, for roleplayers to go through that attention seeking edgelord phase when they first start out. With that in mind, when I see an "edgelord" character I try not to think "Ugh how annoying, /ignore" or go out of my way to avoid them.

 

Nobody improves at roleplaying by getting ignored and excluded.

 

If we're talking the other definitions of "edgelord" that aren't exclusive to roleplayers however, like people that try to be intentionally offensive and controversial? That kind can go far, FAR away and not come back.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:14 AM, TwoDee said:

anyone who tells you that their character is 'truly original' just has too much of an ego or too little self-awareness to tell you what inspirations they brought in

 

I mean okay, fair. But can you please show me the other sexy lightbulb man from the mirror dimension?

 

Hops on the back of a Shulkie-as-Mad Scientiest inspired character and they vault away into the sunset.

[TombTyrant]

[skoryy]

On 8/6/2021 at 1:14 PM, TwoDee said:

I finish by linking a story from the New Praetorians Initiative Discord about one of the most fun exchanges I've ever had in City of Heroes, and it was because I pulled myself out of that 'I don't like what the community doesn't like' mindset long enough to really let an Edgelord player pull out all the stops to perform edginess at me.

 

First off, Actionette must meet Corpse Candle some day and just unload with Doctor Who references.

 

But yeah, having the right character for the moment helps when you're being treated to a full blown theatrical production like that.  Wish I had been there.  😆

[Uruare]

I like characters with relatively serious-toned concepts and backstories.   I don't concern myself overmuch with pigeonholes such as 'edgelord'; frankly, I'm only vaguely confident that I know what one is by definition.   

 

Suffice to say that I vastly prefer X-Men to Power Puff Girls.    I like grit in my fantasy and I like realistic topics, and takes on topics, rather than cartoonified unrealism.

 

I prefer content that is made for mature audiences, and I don't mean porny.   No punches pulled, no censorship given, no apologies made stuff happening and no hiding from the full-fat consequences that follow.

That doesn't, in my mind at least, mean 'edgy' at all.   I just really hate saturday morning cartoon motifs where there aren't any real consequences for anything, nobody's ever seriously affected, nothing meaningful ever changes and none of the characters are ever at risk of being changed by their experiences.

 

Avatar: The Last Airbender = good, in my book.   The characters change, grow, learn things, get scared, overcome fears and are heavily affected in very plausible ways by their experiences.   Overall, still very light-hearted and not what I'd call edgy/edgelordy fiction on the whole, but very much ticking all the most important boxes for characterization and development.

 

So, I really don't mind an edgelord character... provided that's part of their development and not the static be-all, end-all never-changes state of that character.    

 

It seems like a transitional state to me; a character that's having a tough time dealing or understanding or whatever is facing internal struggles, isn't coping well, behaves in a manner I'd call edgy.    People don't usually stay in that mode forever.  Might be there for years or for an otherwise long while, but not forever.

 

I want to see characters be affected by their own choices.  I want to see the consequences of their circumstances have a lasting effect on them whether those effects are positive, negative or circumstantial mixes thereof.  

 

That's the realism and verisimilitude I value and desire.  I'm not interested in characters, for myself or otherwise, that seem to me like they belong in a saturday morning cartoon that basically resets at the end of every episode.

[chase]

1 hour ago, Uruare said:

I like characters with relatively serious-toned concepts and backstories.   I don't concern myself overmuch with pigeonholes such as 'edgelord'; frankly, I'm only vaguely confident that I know what one is by definition.   

 

That's a good position to have.   The term can be ambiguous or overused, (like "mary-sue") and adopted to mean anything that's beyond your tastes in a particular direction.   I have to admit I looked up urban dictionary when the question came up, as I had my own understanding based on how I'd seen it used online, but wasn't sure it was being used correctly, and you can even see there that various posters draw slightly different extremes.

Someone very much into the "powerpuff girls" type of superheroing might very well draw the limit of what they see as "edgelord" differently than what someone who's a fan of... say... "Invincible."  

For what its worth, I wouldn't take what you describe there as "edgelord" at all, but I don't pretend to be the norm.   I consider "edgelord" to be a negative player attribute, not a negative player-character attribute.   I have no issues RP'ing encounters with a character that's dark and edgy and provoking to the point of dysfunction with my character,  but I have little patience for a PLAYER who seems hellbent on doing the same to other players and just shields his behavior from criticism saying he's "roleplaying."

[Chrono-Bot]

They can be really weird to play with. I had one tell my character it was better she die when I was like 'remember the flower patch also gives you more stamina!'

[RickmanUK]

To me it depends on the Intention of the character.

"Dark and Edgy" is fine for a concept and fine to play as/though.

If it's used as an excuse to do things that are generally over the top and "EVIL!" then.. maybe just think of an actual reason why a less edgy person would do this thing... and consider if you want to play though it properly with the consequences or if you jut want it because it's "Cool".

I tend to respect the former more than the latter.

 

Edgelords tend to be used as an excuse. Like playing as a Chaotic Neutral in DnD.

There is nothing wrong with the ascetic and that, there can be something wrong with playing them for the wrong reasons.

 

Edit to Clarify: If your playing an Edgelord to explore the Darker side of things and look into the consequences of those actions.. Then your all good. If your playing them to be a douchebag... You can be a douchebag as anyone/anything.

Edited September 20, 2021 by RickmanUK
Clarity

[Ruin Mage]

At the end of the day, a person will play what they want to play.

The stereotypical edgelord is often fun (either in trolling or in seriousness usually) for the person.

They can be fun to bounce off of, or entirely taxing to deal with. 

[MHertz]

I generally mock the tragic darkity dark orphany death doom backstories, but that's because in my superhero bios, I tend to mock everything. My only goal, like Roger Rabbit, is to make people laugh. I have one character who clearly wants to have a tragic backstory. This is Skyvixen:

 

Quote

 Jillian Channing's almost-tragic backstory is full of the usual heartbreaking calamities that most heroes have. She wasn't an orphan, but she once met somebody who knew one. Her parents weren't killed in any kind of tragic accident for which she swore revenge, but they were kind of mean, a little bit. They wouldn't let Jillian have more than $100,000 in plastic surgery or buy her that Bugatti she always wanted, or let her list her career path as "take selfies on Instagram." That's tragic, right? So she decided to show the world what she could do, and at the same time build up her social media brand and maybe launch a line of fragrances and hair products. She became Skyvixen, defender of the unkempt masses who do not have the money for mousse or personal trainers. As long as the masses look good on camera.  

 

And I have a dark/dark Defender who can't figure out how to be dark, Carmen Astra:

Quote

 

Carmen Astra doesn't think of herself as a superheroine. She thinks of herself as a gritty reboot of the original. The old Carmen was too saccharine, too polite, and never got into trouble. The new Carmen wears clothes her mother wouldn't approve of and wears darker clothing and far too much mascara. The old Carmen liked soppy things like kittens and unicorns and Orlando Bloom. The new Carmen likes bats and black lace and kittens and ... wait, uh ... DARK kittens that ... man, being goth is hard.

 

 

When it comes to RPing with people, I generally don't like any RPer who feels the need to be at center stage, with a spotlight, for every single interaction. Your backstory may be dark and gritty and "real," whatever that means in a world where alien meteors turn ordinary citizens into jelly people of doom, but that doesn't mean your character's personal tragedy makes you the Main Character in everyone else's story. I didn't sign on to be a cameo in your Darkity Dark Drama starring You. Or, for that matter, to be a cameo in a Sob Story Drama starring You. I got over that when I was 9. Remember how there was always that one kid who wanted to be an Alien That Nobody Understood and would run away, so all the other kids would chase him and try to make him feel better? Yeah, don't be that. It's my opinion that we should plan our RP backstories so it can integrate with that of other players, so we can sometimes be a cameo in their piece.

[Optimum_Man]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:05 PM, Krimson said:

Dark and Edgy was great when I was 14 and consuming Elric novels like air. At 49... The grimdorks don't impress.

People think Elric is edgy? Man I always thought he was like a tragic figure but I never thought of him as edgy. Now his WoW copycat Arthas? Edgelord all the way.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Optimum_Man

[Darmian]

Spent enough damn time (I.E. too much) in the company of Cam Vamps back in the day. Characters are never Edgelords. Players are.

[tidge]

9 hours ago, Optimum_Man said:

People think Elric is edgy? Man I always thought he was like a tragic figure but I never thought of him as ashy. Now his WoW copycat Arthas? Edgelord all the way.

 

I also never really thought of Elric as 'edgy', except in the context of him being a physical weakling, aligned with chaos, with a soul-sucking sword. At a meta level, all of Melniboné was a sort edgelord spin on Tolkien's faerie.

 

Yyrkoon was the Edgelord.

[Triumphant]

I tend to be more opinionated about RP when playing in a different setting.  But the super-hero genre lends itself to tropy archetypes and over-the-top personalities so, in this case, I think any flavor of edgelord (or any other trope) can pretty much fit in just fine.

[Paragon Vanguard]

"Edgelord"? Wow...hate these labels. Don't take offense, it doesn't mean people are wrong, it is simply my opinion. Once you put a label on a toon, then you are simply playing other people's concepts. None of my characters are precisely this or that, they are like people. Their moods change, their ideas can change, and their personalities grow. I feel like when people label their toons, they force the rp. Adults do not force themselves like that. Really good people can do really bad things, really bad people can be heroic at times, it is all situational. This may well be the reason I am finding rp characters to be more teenagery than adult. "Edgy" people in rl, to me, always just come off as fake. As if they are trying to be something, instead of just being. 
The best thing to do is decide what motivates and what drives the character. Don't label them. Let others label them, and you may find different people have different labels for the same toon.  
Just my opinion, as I said, and I do think it is a good discussion, even where we do not agree. I like seeing how people think on rp. Thanks for the thread! 🙂

[Siouxsie]

On 10/27/2021 at 1:25 AM, Optimum_Man said:

People think Elric is edgy? Man I always thought he was like a tragic figure but I never thought of him as edgy. Now his WoW copycat Arthas? Edgelord all the way.

 

I've never read the Elric stuff, only encountered him through copy-cats.  They were all much worse than Arthas, and my opinion of his story isn't very high.  If the source isn't edgy then it's just more evidence that it is all about presentation.

[Coyotedancer]

Having read pretty much the entire lot, I'd say El is more of an angst-puppy than anything..,

 

That aside, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what being an edgelord character actually entails. Honestly? It sounds like a term that's fallen into the same category as the typical use of "Mary Sue". That is to say, short-hand for darn near any character that the reviewer doesn't like, doesn't approve or really wishes would be written out of a particular story in favor of something they like more.  

[Optimum_Man]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:15 PM, Coyotedancer said:

Having read pretty much the entire lot, I'd say El is more of an angst-puppy than anything..,

 

That aside, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what being an edgelord character actually entails. Honestly? It sounds like a term that's fallen into the same category as the typical use of "Mary Sue". That is to say, short-hand for darn near any character that the reviewer doesn't like, doesn't approve or really wishes would be written out of a particular story in favor of something they like more.  

Both terms signify poor to non existent character development. Like the God Mode character archetype, all three are simply a matter of poor storytelling. While they may be overpowered like the other two, and Edgelord may also engage in acts that are morally dubious or even evil, but aren’t characterized as a villain. And unlike Villains who had a clear path from normal person to Villain, Edgelords were probably always intended to either be Heroes or antiheros. Think bad boy 9000. The key is in the details and depends on how they’re written. How did the character go to this point? Were they always like this? What are their weaknesses? Do they have any? Some characters that are most certainly Edgelords  just work because they’re well written and have had time to develop as characters. Spawn is an example of that.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Optimum_Man