MassivelyOP Article on City of Heroes 2

[PeregrineFalcon]

11 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

*Watches as the thread devolves into "nuh-uh, your wrong and I am right!" arguments*

A lot of people now days are just determined to stick with their world view no matter how many people tell them they're wrong. It's why I didn't bother to cite a source. He would have just nit-picked it to "prove" it wrong and there is zero chance that he might actually change his mind.

 

*shrug* It is what it is.

[Replacement]

Uh huh, yeah I hate the direction of this thread and will immediately regret keeping it alive, but I want to talk about the premise and I'm not gonna make an account on MassivelyOP for it:

 

Portal Corp as part of the core premise.  As they mention in the article, I would love to see an alternate reality (or, ugh, universe reset).  But to go along with it, I would take the approach of a full set of linked dimensions.

 

Problems this solves:

• You don't need an evil, hostile nation-state a quick boat ride from Paragon, RI if Arachnos/equivalent can be ruling from an alternate version of the city.  Essentially, this is what they tried to move towards with late-game Praetoria, but they undermined it with all the... Praetoria-ness.  And, you know, the whole "we broke it" thing.
• As a connection point of the dimensions, Paragon being the City of Heroes makes more sense.  I don't like how justified the NPC jokes are about not being able to throw something without it hitting a superhero.  We need more justification for the density in this one spot.
• The rest of the "kitchen sink" world can be split up some more between the different realities, ideally with some blurring.  e.g. one dimension can be the wellspring of most magic, so it's rare/non-existent in some other dimensions.  One dimension can have a sentinel-esque (in the X-Men sense) police force and heroics are outlawed, etc.

 

So basically, imagine 3-5 different Paragons that all share a Portal Core Metro line of some sort, with varying degrees of open trade/currently-at-war type situations.  

 

Perhaps more controversially: no straight PvP, no true supervillain players.  Just an alignment system tied into your Contact/story arc access.

 

I figured I'd have a bunch of bullets and bolded headers but... no.  I really just want to decentralize some of the setting.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Replacement
redundant phrasing

[TheZag]

1 hour ago, 0th Power said:

How much XP is the gum worth?

 

Im not exactly sure, but its over nine thousand.

[Zhym]

On 9/17/2021 at 4:19 PM, Greycat said:

Ugh. Already don't like that setup just from the quoted bit. I don't like having Arachnos - a hostile foreign power - *building bases* in Faultline and Siren's (and part of Atlas, apparently) already. It's just ridiculously stupid.  "The villains own half the city" is just that writ large.

 

The only way a "villain" should "own a city" is something... oh, Crey could pull off, where they're a big enough corporation they "own" a large chunk of the economy, have political clout, etc. - enough to influence events and hide things. I mean, if at any point the USSR owned Brooklyn, it wouldn't be tolerated.

 

Don't even have to go into the article after that.

I'd like to see a plot where "villainous" factions—Arachnos, Crey, heck, maybe even the Family if they have the resources—come in and start rebuilding devastated areas of Paragon City.  New Boomtown, brought to you by Arachnos?  Faultline Reborn, a Crey Industries Development?  What happens when an organization with evil goals mounts a PR campaign based on fixing problems that have festered under "heroic" leadership?  Could be some interesting stories there.

 

(Come to that, what is the leadership of Paragon City?  Is there a mayor?  A city council?  Weird that the governance structure of a city of heroes never seems to be mentioned.)

[Glacier Peak]

20 minutes ago, Zhym said:

I'd like to see a plot where "villainous" factions—Arachnos, Crey, heck, maybe even the Family if they have the resources—come in and start rebuilding devastated areas of Paragon City.  New Boomtown, brought to you by Arachnos?  Faultline Reborn, a Crey Industries Development?  What happens when an organization with evil goals mounts a PR campaign based on fixing problems that have festered under "heroic" leadership?  Could be some interesting stories there.

 

(Come to that, what is the leadership of Paragon City?  Is there a mayor?  A city council?  Weird that the governance structure of a city of heroes never seems to be mentioned.)

Paragon City has a Mayor, and they are a fictionally a part of the State of Rhode Island. Assuming the fictional world's government structure matches that of the real world, they would also likely have a city council. In fact, there are numerous missions scattered throughout the Hero side that requires saving city councilors.

 

As for who their current Mayor is, that remains to be seen. In 2005, it was Mayor Morales. The Mayor of Paragon City during the early 20th Century, was Michael James "Spanky" Rabinowitz, who maintained control of the city’s politics for nearly thirty years. Other parts of the in-game like Croatoa, have their own Mayor.

[Zhym]

5 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Paragon City has a Mayor, and they are a fictionally a part of the State of Rhode Island. Assuming the fictional world's government structure matches that of the real world, they would also likely have a city council. In fact, there are numerous missions scattered throughout the Hero side that requires saving city councilors.

 

As for who their current Mayor is, that remains to be seen. In 2005, it was Mayor Morales. The Mayor of Paragon City during the early 20th Century, was Michael James "Spanky" Rabinowitz, who maintained control of the city’s politics for nearly thirty years. Other parts of the in-game like Croatoa, have their own Mayor.

Oh, right!  I've saved the City Council (including one councilman with the on-the-nose name of "Alderman") enough times that you'd think I'd remember.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Zhym

[A Cat]

49 minutes ago, Zhym said:

I'd like to see a plot where "villainous" factions—Arachnos, Crey, heck, maybe even the Family if they have the resources—come in and start rebuilding devastated areas of Paragon City.  New Boomtown, brought to you by Arachnos?  Faultline Reborn, a Crey Industries Development?  What happens when an organization with evil goals mounts a PR campaign based on fixing problems that have festered under "heroic" leadership?  Could be some interesting stories there.

 

(Come to that, what is the leadership of Paragon City?  Is there a mayor?  A city council?  Weird that the governance structure of a city of heroes never seems to be mentioned.)

That could be cool. Reminds me of how the Yakuza engages in disaster relief. 

 

Personally I vote for The Family. They have experience building up places (St. Martial) and irl have done so in St. Martial's irl counterpart Vegas. The only downside is that it kind of retreads the same ground as St. Martial but nobody plays Redside so I think it pans out still. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by A Cat

[0th Power]

8 hours ago, TheZag said:

 

Im not exactly sure, but its over nine thousand.

 

[Ironblade]

10 hours ago, TheZag said:

Im not exactly sure, but its over nine thousand.

 

[BurtHutt]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:01 AM, PeregrineFalcon said:

A lot of people now days are just determined to stick with their world view no matter how many people tell them they're wrong. It's why I didn't bother to cite a source. He would have just nit-picked it to "prove" it wrong and there is zero chance that he might actually change his mind.

 

*shrug* It is what it is.

Or you could actually analyze any provided source and not read the header only. It's not difficult. 

 

Sure, tons of crime is done due to greed but not all. Tons of scenarios out there. Anyone with any credibility would say it's a fairly complex issue.

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

Or you could actually analyze any provided source and not read the header only. It's not difficult.

Nice of you to assume that I haven't done any in-depth research or analysis. That's exactly the kind of arguing in bad faith has convinced me that there's no point in showing you a bunch of proof that you just won't believe anyway. Thanks for proving my point!

 

3 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

Sure, tons of crime is done due to greed but not all. Tons of scenarios out there. Anyone with any credibility would say it's a fairly complex issue.

I didn't say that it wasn't a complex issue. That isn't the statement that I was responding to with my initial post.

[BurtHutt]

19 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Nice of you to assume that I haven't done any in-depth research or analysis. That's exactly the kind of arguing in bad faith has convinced me that there's no point in showing you a bunch of proof that you just won't believe anyway. Thanks for proving my point!

 

I didn't say that it wasn't a complex issue. That isn't the statement that I was responding to with my initial post.

I would be interested in hearing about the in-depth research you've conducted. I'm being serious. 

 

On my behalf, I will say I have done degrees in psychology and criminology and worked in the criminal justice field for 25 years. So, please, enlighten me.

[PeregrineFalcon]

10 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

On my behalf, I will say I have done degrees in psychology and criminology and worked in the criminal justice field for 25 years. So, please, enlighten me.

I've already said that I'm not doing that work so that you can then just refuse to believe me. Trying to impress, or shame, me into doing the work so that you can then come up with some convoluted "gotcha" isn't going to work either.

 

Also, if you really do have a degree in criminology then already you know that what I've said has been proven multiple times by the DoJ. If you don't know that then you're lying about your degree.

.

Edited October 15, 2021 by PeregrineFalcon
typo

[Ironblade]

On 9/20/2021 at 12:50 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Besides, if I do provide a link, instead of reading the information and possibly even changing your mind, you're far more likely to

 

On 9/24/2021 at 1:01 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

A lot of people now days are just determined to stick with their world view no matter how many people tell them they're wrong. It's why I didn't bother to cite a source.

 

40 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Nice of you to assume that I haven't done any in-depth research or analysis. That's exactly the kind of arguing in bad faith has convinced me that there's no point in showing you a bunch of proof that you just won't believe anyway. Thanks for proving my point!

 

9 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I've already said that I'm not doing that work so that you can then just refuse to believe me.

 

Tell us again how you're not going to quote any sources or provide any evidence.  We missed it the first three times.

Ever hear the saying, "Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."?

At this point, you should probably just go quietly.  None of you are looking good in this argument.

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

At this point, you should probably just go quietly.  None of you are looking good in this argument.

Feel free to log in to your moderator account and sanction or ban me then. Otherwise trying to tell me what and where I'm allowed to post is just a waste of your time.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Nice of you to assume that I haven't done any in-depth research or analysis. That's exactly the kind of arguing in bad faith has convinced me that there's no point in showing you a bunch of proof that you just won't believe anyway. Thanks for proving my point!

 

I didn't say that it wasn't a complex issue. That isn't the statement that I was responding to with my initial post.

You haven't. You've just done like in the teaming thread; whined, blah blah passive aggressive blah blah, and that's why I'm right!.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

 

 

 

 

Tell us again how you're not going to quote any sources or provide any evidence.  We missed it the first three times.

Ever hear the saying, "Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."?

At this point, you should probably just go quietly.  None of you are looking good in this argument.

That's called intelligent debate, they're afraid of that. Just let em whine like they always do, they'll learn to shut up eventually.

[Dazl]

Really you necro'd an almost month old thread to just pick a fight? Where was that passion last month?

[Ukase]

On 9/17/2021 at 1:37 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

This is absolutely untrue.

 

Statistical work from criminologists has proven that poor people are far more likely to commit crimes than rich people. Part of it is from wanting money and part of it stems from the same mindset that keeps them poor in the first place.

 

The poor are statistically far more likely to commit violent crimes in addition to being more likely to steal money or resources. It's just that when the rich do commit crimes it's far more likely to make it into the news.

I saw this reply just now. And I see a lot of thumbs down. 

Historically, this may be the first time I agree with what PF is saying here. It is true. Those who are poor are more likely to commit crimes. At least in the US. Why? Because they don't have hope. I'm not saying that their perspective is accurate. I do have hope for them. But many of them don't see any hope for themselves. And their perception is their reality. That's not to broadly stroke ALL poor people with that brush. But statistically, it's true. We can debate as to why it's true, but it has a lot to do with the rich getting richer, and the revenue from the prison industry. 

Consider the algorithms at work in social media. You - the one who detested Trump even before he got into office - your algorithm shows you a certain set of articles and videos. That fellow - yeah - him with the hat - his shows him a completely different set of articles and videos. And that gal over there - all she sees is Lululemon, Margarita recipes and Bongo jeans. 
We all see different things because our algorithms are different. They show us a little bit of what we want to see, and a little bit of what they want us to see - for reasons that escape me, but I speculate it's for ad revenue and political motivations. 

But - this is totally off point, I just wonder why folks would give a thumbs down. Is it because you disagree, or you just don't like that statement? Both? 

[Wobegone]

49 minutes ago, Ukase said:

But - this is totally off point, I just wonder why folks would give a thumbs down. Is it because you disagree, or you just don't like that statement? Both? 

It's not about the statistics for me.  There are obvious links between poverty and crime, including violent crime, which have been studied extensively for decades.  It was the "same mindset that keeps them poor in the first place".  Perhaps I misunderstood, but this seemed to place the blame solely on the criminals.  It's far more complicated than that. 

 

For example, my grandfather was a construction worker who did well in North Dakota and his sons followed him into construction, while his daughters went to college.  My other grandfather was a diesel mechanic and welder.  His sons became mechanics and welders, while my mom went to college and became an adolescent psychologist.  

 

What happens when kids are brought up in a family of drug dealers?  Say the dad is killed or jailed and the mom is a crack user.  What is the statistical likelihood of those kids becoming drug dealers and violent offenders?  Where does the blame start and where does it end?  

 

To be clear, I'm not saying the criminals are blameless.  People are responsible for their own actions.  But generational exposure to violence, alcohol, drugs, and crime are most certainly statistically linked.  

[BurtHutt]

23 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I've already said that I'm not doing that work so that you can then just refuse to believe me. Trying to impress, or shame, me into doing the work so that you can then come up with some convoluted "gotcha" isn't going to work either.

 

Also, if you really do have a degree in criminology then already you know that what I've said has been proven multiple times by the DoJ. If you don't know that then you're lying about your degree.

.

But I thought you'd already done this research and fact finding...?

[BurtHutt]

17 hours ago, Ukase said:

I saw this reply just now. And I see a lot of thumbs down. 

Historically, this may be the first time I agree with what PF is saying here. It is true. Those who are poor are more likely to commit crimes. At least in the US. Why? Because they don't have hope. I'm not saying that their perspective is accurate. I do have hope for them. But many of them don't see any hope for themselves. And their perception is their reality. That's not to broadly stroke ALL poor people with that brush. But statistically, it's true. We can debate as to why it's true, but it has a lot to do with the rich getting richer, and the revenue from the prison industry. 

Consider the algorithms at work in social media. You - the one who detested Trump even before he got into office - your algorithm shows you a certain set of articles and videos. That fellow - yeah - him with the hat - his shows him a completely different set of articles and videos. And that gal over there - all she sees is Lululemon, Margarita recipes and Bongo jeans. 
We all see different things because our algorithms are different. They show us a little bit of what we want to see, and a little bit of what they want us to see - for reasons that escape me, but I speculate it's for ad revenue and political motivations. 

But - this is totally off point, I just wonder why folks would give a thumbs down. Is it because you disagree, or you just don't like that statement? Both? 

There is a correlation between poverty and criminality. Sure. I will also add the poor are also easy targets and vulnerable in many ways. Money and wealth sure gets people out of a lot of trouble and criminal prosecution. 

 

Look at the last U.S. president. I have no doubt many of the rich and powerful got there by hook and by crook.

 

Anyway, I digress. The poor may have more convictions but I am quite certain the rich commit more crimes than noted in stats simply because they get away with it.

[tidge]

On 9/19/2021 at 10:58 PM, Seed22 said:

Saying the word statistical doesnt make it true or smart. Bet you $100mil you can’t tell me the confounding variables around that study. Bet you $500mil you can’t tell me the confidence interval, margin of error, null and alternative hypothesis, sample size, testing period, questions asked…basically I think you just read this off of Facebook.

 

I put odds at 10-to-1 against the notion that this wager was formed without a full consideration of what it means to "bet".

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, tidge said:

I put odds at 10-to-1 against the notion that this wager was formed without a full consideration of what it means to "bet".

Yeah you have to have that on hand! Nobody is going to take your bet if you walk in with those big numbers and no proof lol

[Wavicle]

Most greed based crimes aren't punished, like destroying economies, starting wars of aggression, stealing your employees wages, or cancelling City of Heroes.

Wage theft is massively underreported.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Wavicle