ITF - Enhance the final battle

[krj12]

One of the things about the final battle in ITF, that just doesn't feel right, is that after you kill him the first time - the difficulty goes WAY down.

It becomes almost trivial after that point.

 

Suggestions:

 

1.   Make Romulus almost invincible while any Nictus is alive.  Make his regeneration and defense very high, making it very difficult to take him down.

This would force a new strategy of taking down the Nictus first.  Some teams already do, but most teams I'm on concentrate on Rom. 

Also give the Nicti high AE defense, since some high end teams I've been on have been able to burn down everything at the same time.

 

2.  As you take out Nicti, make Rom more and more offensive.   Make him hit for more, and give him extra abilities.

 

3.  When you take out the last Nicti,  Rom should now be vulnerable,  but will be at Max offensive capability.

 

4.  Maybe jazz up the ambushes.   I haven't paid that much attention to the ambushes, but it feels like it's mostly the Cimerorans.   Add some Council, so that we have to deal with ranged attacks.    Perhaps make any mob groups that we didn't take out along the way on either path could now be triggered to converge on our location.  ( Not all at once, but perhaps every 5-10 seconds ).

 

5.  Give Rom resistance to knockdown.  He does have it in the prior mission, but somehow his Nictus enhanced self is more vulnerable to it.

 

6.  Wish there was some way to get that giant robot involved - perhaps a mini-version of it could spawn and join the fight?

 

One unrelated change:

Make it less likely Rom will run in fear,  I haven't been able to recruit a Tank on every team - and it can be a royal pain tracking him down.

 

[Aurora_Girl]

In before @PeregrineFalcon: 

 

/Jaaaaayrangeeeerrrrr

[Psyonico]

/jranger

[Bill Z Bubba]

Counter-proposal: Solo it so it's not as easy.

[krj12]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Counter-proposal: Solo it so it's not as easy.

/jranger

I prefer teams.

 

[kelika2]

Sounds like it would be easier to get rid of the rezzing part and it completes after the first down

[PeregrineFalcon]

[Aurora_Girl]

5 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 

There's something truly comforting about the inevitable, isn't there?

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

There's something truly comforting about the inevitable, isn't there?

Yes there is.

 

Also, I like that you recognize that I am inevitable.  😄

[Aurora_Girl]

12 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Yes there is.

 

Also, I like that you recognize that I am inevitable.  😄

 

It's less recognition, than a commendation of agreeable dispositions 😉

[Greycat]

What I'd have to ask is "What level are you running it at?" 50? 50 with Incarnates?

 

The reason I ask is that, what's dead simple with an Incarnate'd out 50 could be insanely difficult for people at the *lower* range - in this case, 35 - of the TF. At which point, you have a few options -

 

- Raise the minimum level of the TF. Should be done sparingly, if ever. There's otherwise not good reason to do it with this TF, the rest of it's perfectly handle-able by the rest of the level range.

- Add some difficulty options. I wouldn't mind if this had a "Everyone's got Alpha slotted, give an additional difficulty option" sort of choice.

- ... ok, forgot what else I was thinking of. 😉

 

I wouldn't *mind* seeing different mechanics at the end of TFs, honestly, besides "hit big bag of HP."  You somewhat lean towards something like LR at the end of the MLTF with the towers. Rom's got the rez-and-big-stun going at least. And yes, I wouldn' tmind *all* the TFs to just get a *change* (past, oh, maybe posi) every once in a while to keep it from being predictable. Heck, even make 2-3 versions of the same TF with different ending goals or mechanics, though that's a lot of work.

 

About the only thing I'd immediately say would be problematic in this would be getting the robots involved. Past maybe a blast or something, there's an issue with targeting things over a certain size, as I'm recalling.

[krj12]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

What I'd have to ask is "What level are you running it at?" 50? 50 with Incarnates?

 

The reason I ask is that, what's dead simple with an Incarnate'd out 50 could be insanely difficult for people at the *lower* range - in this case, 35 - of the TF. At which point, you have a few options -

 

- Raise the minimum level of the TF. Should be done sparingly, if ever. There's otherwise not good reason to do it with this TF, the rest of it's perfectly handle-able by the rest of the level range.

- Add some difficulty options. I wouldn't mind if this had a "Everyone's got Alpha slotted, give an additional difficulty option" sort of choice.

- ... ok, forgot what else I was thinking of. 😉

 

I wouldn't *mind* seeing different mechanics at the end of TFs, honestly, besides "hit big bag of HP."  You somewhat lean towards something like LR at the end of the MLTF with the towers. Rom's got the rez-and-big-stun going at least. And yes, I wouldn' tmind *all* the TFs to just get a *change* (past, oh, maybe posi) every once in a while to keep it from being predictable. Heck, even make 2-3 versions of the same TF with different ending goals or mechanics, though that's a lot of work.

 

About the only thing I'd immediately say would be problematic in this would be getting the robots involved. Past maybe a blast or something, there's an issue with targeting things over a certain size, as I'm recalling.

 

You are correct that it would most likely be very difficult at lower levels.  I run at level 54,  and usually end up with a mix of incarnated out folks along with a few lowbies.

Glad to see that at least one person chose to address my post, vs just the usual /jranger.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an "extra difficulty" option for this TF, as well as most of the other TFs that can be run at 50, to avoid the difficulty lower levels/non incarnates might have with it.

The TF "mechanics" in this game, vs what I've seen in other MMOs are somewhat limited, and could use some spicing up.

 

Yeah, the size of the giant robot would be an issue, which is why I proposed a "mini" version, nothing bigger than your usual GM.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by krj12

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, krj12 said:

 

Glad to see that at least one person chose to address my post, vs just the usual /jranger.

 

 

Well, some people have forgotten, or just don't know, what the actual purpose of posting /jranger was to begin with.

 

It actually wasn't specifically saying "no."  There is, perhaps, a touch of irony to someone (besides myself) getting known for posting it, though.

[TheZag]

The crimson prototype is pretty big and can move around so maybe the difficulty targeting large enemies has been solved.

 

As for reworking the fight,  i wouldnt go with require killing the nictus first as this is one of the few bosses with a choice for how to attack.  Maybe change it up a bit depending on which route you choose,  but dont stick a roadblock on one of them.

 

Maybe the robots could drop some orbital bombardment from somewhere  outside the map (but werent we disabling them in the previous mission?).

 

I would like to see more 'do something in a fight or bad things happen'  but i know alot of people are against that.  Move out of the death zone,  close the enemy spawners,  jump in water to remove some DoT,  man the turret to fire some missiles.  Things to distinguish boss fights from other boss fights.  I think the Romulus fight is already distinguishable though.  Id like to see some of the other bosses get a revamp first.

[Triumphant]

/jranger

 

To the OP and to all of the replies to the OP.

 

You guys are right, this is so fun. 

 

Woo.

[TheZag]

thinking about it now,  some of the things i mentioned for different fight mechanics are already a thing in itrials.  thats probably the best place for the more advanced mechanics as the game should ramp up towards the end,  not the beginning.  also probably why i have more fun in itrials compared to regular task forces.

[plainguy]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Well, some people have forgotten, or just don't know, what the actual purpose of posting /jranger was to begin with.

 

It actually wasn't specifically saying "no."  There is, perhaps, a touch of irony to someone (besides myself) getting known for posting it, though.

I take it as a derogatory No

[plainguy]

2 hours ago, TheZag said:

The crimson prototype is pretty big and can move around so maybe the difficulty targeting large enemies has been solved.

 

As for reworking the fight,  i wouldnt go with require killing the nictus first as this is one of the few bosses with a choice for how to attack.  Maybe change it up a bit depending on which route you choose,  but dont stick a roadblock on one of them.

 

Maybe the robots could drop some orbital bombardment from somewhere  outside the map (but werent we disabling them in the previous mission?).

 

I would like to see more 'do something in a fight or bad things happen'  but i know alot of people are against that.  Move out of the death zone,  close the enemy spawners,  jump in water to remove some DoT,  man the turret to fire some missiles.  Things to distinguish boss fights from other boss fights.  I think the Romulus fight is already distinguishable though.  Id like to see some of the other bosses get a revamp first.

Maybe not disabling allows the team to take on the extra fight.
Players options.

[plainguy]

On 10/31/2021 at 6:15 PM, krj12 said:

One of the things about the final battle in ITF, that just doesn't feel right, is that after you kill him the first time - the difficulty goes WAY down.

It becomes almost trivial after that point.

 

Suggestions:

 

1.   Make Romulus almost invincible while any Nictus is alive.  Make his regeneration and defense very high, making it very difficult to take him down.

This would force a new strategy of taking down the Nictus first.  Some teams already do, but most teams I'm on concentrate on Rom. 

Also give the Nicti high AE defense, since some high end teams I've been on have been able to burn down everything at the same time.

 

2.  As you take out Nicti, make Rom more and more offensive.   Make him hit for more, and give him extra abilities.

 

3.  When you take out the last Nicti,  Rom should now be vulnerable,  but will be at Max offensive capability.

 

4.  Maybe jazz up the ambushes.   I haven't paid that much attention to the ambushes, but it feels like it's mostly the Cimerorans.   Add some Council, so that we have to deal with ranged attacks.    Perhaps make any mob groups that we didn't take out along the way on either path could now be triggered to converge on our location.  ( Not all at once, but perhaps every 5-10 seconds ).

 

5.  Give Rom resistance to knockdown.  He does have it in the prior mission, but somehow his Nictus enhanced self is more vulnerable to it.

 

6.  Wish there was some way to get that giant robot involved - perhaps a mini-version of it could spawn and join the fight?

 

One unrelated change:

Make it less likely Rom will run in fear,  I haven't been able to recruit a Tank on every team - and it can be a royal pain tracking him down.

 

Look every suggestion doesn't have to super polished and beta tested out of the box on a private server. 
A suggest neither implies that it must be done, even if 1000 players agree with the suggestion. 

Let also add for analogy. I work in a corporate environment under cyber security and threat intelligence.  The company has been around for over 100 years. There are different people working much longer in certain divisions like Networking, Exchange, Servers. I have also dealt with NUMEROUS outside breaches from third parties.  

I cannot tell you how many times we might say some common sense simple question and get back answers that no one has thought about addressing. Or a question sparks an idea or improvement that might already was in the start of being implemented but now has to be changed because someone just brought up an idea too good not to be dismissed. 

Mind you in these corporate places the It budget is within the 100s of millions. With 100s of people around the world. 
This is free to play, ask for donations monthly to cover the bills, staffed by a hand full of volunteers doing this on their spare time, if not full time 2nd job almost. 

I doubt they have the cycles to also sit around and think of ideas and improvements. But they can sure read what others bring to the table and read how other re-developed the idea/suggestion.

 

[Wobegone]

The Dev team is openly working on new difficulty settings for some content.  My advice is have some patience and see how that plays out.  I agree that most of the TFs are ridiculously easy nowadays, including the ITF, even at max difficulty.  For myself, I'll issue a thumbs up or down depending on the new settings. 

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, plainguy said:

I take it as a derogatory No

 

Which it is not meant to be. 

 

Back on live, JRanger was (briefly) a user who started just posting "no" to everything. Not even things he necessarily disagreed with. There's a little more history to him elsewhere online. Basically he picked up the "There's a forum cartel that doesn't want anything to change and just says no to everything" idea and (along with ... someone else, whose name I don't quite remember) got somewhat aggressive with it, as I'm recalling.

 

So when I /jrangered him, it was tongue in cheek. More "You're being a bit silly with this - are you sure this is what you want to be known for?" than actually malicious or derogatory. I didn't expect it to last more than a few days, a week at the outside. I figured he'd either get the point, talk to me about it, or be annoyed enough to stop and cool off a few days.

 

Instead, people took it, ran with it and just used it instead of "no." Or in many cases, as you put it, a derogatory "no."

 

Frankly, since he's (obviously) not here, and the OP certainly hasn't done anything to warrant that sort of holding up of a mirror - and I can't think of any other thread it's been put up in that does - it shouldn't be getting used. If anything, the most appropriate (in the vein of how it was meant) thing to do right now would be replying to it with a /pfalcon. And if you read the first reply, it should be obvious as to why.

 

Personally, I'd be perfectly happy to see it put back on a "do not use" list. I'm amused that it's remembered still. I'm not in how it's being used.

[PeregrineFalcon]

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

Personally, I'd be perfectly happy to see it put back on a "do not use" list. I'm amused that it's remembered still. I'm not in how it's being used.

I'm sorry to hear that, Greycat. I started using it again because it was a funny meme specific to City of Heroes that only us old-timers remember. And because I really like that gif.

 

Then I kept using it because it's done a good job protecting me from... How do I say this? Forum moderators who are far more sensitive than I am. I'll just put it that way.

 

Previously I'd explain why I thought a suggestion was a bad idea, the OP would respond and generally call me names, then I'd respond and explain why he was wrong, then he'd report my post and I'd get a warning point. I'm guessing that I only get so many warning points before I get banned. So that /jranger gif has done a great job protecting me from an unwarranted ban.

 

If some high-soy snowflake wants to take offense by thinking that it's meant derogatorily that's his/her/furrykind/otherkin's problem, not mine.

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm sorry to hear that, Greycat. I started using it again because it was a funny meme specific to City of Heroes that only us old-timers remember. And because I really like that gif.

 

Then I kept using it because it's done a good job protecting me from... How do I say this? Forum moderators who are far more sensitive than I am. I'll just put it that way.

 

Previously I'd explain why I thought a suggestion was a bad idea, the OP would respond and generally call me names, then I'd respond and explain why he was wrong, then he'd report my post and I'd get a warning point. I'm guessing that I only get so many warning points before I get banned. So that /jranger gif has done a great job protecting me from an unwarranted ban.

 

If some high-soy snowflake wants to take offense by thinking that it's meant derogatorily that's his/her/furrykind/otherkin's problem, not mine.

 

See, the problem with it is - it's being seen as "No, full stop, and not worthy of discussion." Or even - how to put it - an aggressive "no." And if it gets seen that way too much, it could very well end up doing exactly the opposite of what you state you're trying to do and be a reason to get a warning or, eventually, ban. It did, after all, get to that point on live.

 

And I do get that some ideas are just ... no. Just stop. I don't think there should be a requirement or expectation of "having an explanation." Sometimes (generic) you just don't like an idea. Even if it's not something that can be put into words, something just feels like it'd be a bad idea but all you can say is "eh... I don't think it'd be good/it would fit."

 

Personally? I'd like if the forums had a shorthand - other than this, and a little more nuanced. Even if it's GIFs. Say, just using stop lights, with - say - a red with a choice of "Eh, just don't like it," "power creep!/overpowered," "technical reasons," etc, yellow with "not sure" or "don't think it can be done, but would be interested," and green for "yep! Like it" - or have them as the response icons in the corner. Just to give a feel of support (or not) that isn't necessarily needing discussion and won't be taken as just shutting down a discussion.

[Ruin Mage]

I think that changing - enhancing, as it was used here, but still - exisisting content in such a way is something that HC will avoid doing if conversations with the devs is anything to go by. I don't disagree with it - changing anything at its base nature is perhaps not a pleasant idea. Now bugfixing or tweaking odd things is different and I'm all for that.

However, with the occasionally mentioned Challenge Mode coming this could be a possible concept for a Challenge Mode ITF IF CM is proliferated to pre-HC content.

Otherwise, no thanks. 

[Arbegla]

And here I am, remembering begging the devs to not nerf the ITF further, because during the beta for it, LOTS of people couldn't get past Nictus Rommy and his 3 floating buddies. It took showing that it was duo-able with a MM and a Dominator before people really started to realize you can't just jump into the fight and hope to win. The ITF was one of the first Task Forces with an actual mechanic (the three different Nictus, the mass stun on death, and ambushes) which meant you had to actually think about what to do, instead of just face roll on the keyboard and win.

 

Oh how the times have changed.