Focused Feedback: Enhancements

[Glacier Peak]

42 minutes ago, scottocamp said:

 

Booper - this looks *much* more appealing to slot.  But as someone with minimal interest in slotting a travel power, I would still argue if you want folks to use these sets it will be counter-productive to make the first two bonuses "uninspiring".  CoH already has a lot of uninspiring set bonuses for powers much more in need of slotting.  T2 Resist / T4 Sustain / T6 Move/Sustain would however be extremely tempting.  I would certainly want to find a way to work those set bonuses into my build.  A T2/T4/T6 offering has the potential to change how people look at and use travel powers. 

[scottocamp]

38 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

 

Thanks for the laugh!  🙂

 

Just trying to be honest about what it would take for me to four slot a travel power.

[Booper]

1 hour ago, scottocamp said:

I would still argue if you want folks to use these sets it will be counter-productive to make the first two bonuses "uninspiring

I'll take that as a vote for the T2/T4/T5 over the T2/T2/T6? (T2/T4/T6 isn't happening, it's already going over budget)

[scottocamp]

9 minutes ago, Booper said:

I'll take that as a vote for the T2/T4/T5 over the T2/T2/T6? (T2/T4/T6 isn't happening, it's already going over budget)

 

You need a budget increase.  🙂

 

Honestly I would say go for the T2/T2/T6 if there is no option to sweeten the offering.  I think the T6 offers the best chance folks will use all 4 pieces of the set.  But it sure would be nice to make the decision to not use these sets more painful.

[Bionic_Flea]

4 hours ago, Booper said:

• Hypersonic: 2.25% E/N Resist | 1.875% HP | 9% Movement Speed
• Launch: 2.25% S/L Resist | 10% Regen | 2.7% Max End
• Thrust: 2.25% F/C Resist | 2.5% Recovery | 10% Slow Resist
• Warp: 2.25% T/P Resist | 3% End Discount | 7.5% Range

I prefer this breakdown.  Yes, a T6 bonus in the 4th slot is enticing, but honestly can see myself using 2 or 3 slots of these on builds.  I'd have to sit down in Mids for a bit with the final updates to see if I might ever 4 slot a travel power with one of these, regardless of which breakdown you use.  But my gut feeling is that I wouldn't, even with the T6 bonus unless, perhaps, it was a T6 bonus to HP, Defense, Resist, or Recharge and I doubt that would happen.

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I prefer this breakdown.  Yes, a T6 bonus in the 4th slot is enticing, but honestly can see myself using 2 or 3 slots of these on builds.  I'd have to sit down in Mids for a bit with the final updates to see if I might ever 4 slot a travel power with one of these, regardless of which breakdown you use.  But my gut feeling is that I wouldn't, even with the T6 bonus unless, perhaps, it was a T6 bonus to HP, Defense, Resist, or Recharge and I doubt that would happen.

Agreed with the T2, T4, and T5 breakdown as well.

[Dispari]

I definitely like the new proposed set bonus layout more.

[DreadShinobi]

On 11/12/2021 at 11:36 PM, DreadShinobi said:

+move

+move/+endredux

+endredux

+endredux/proc

@Booper I wanted to bring this up again about making the set enhancement values more endurance heavy by putting endredux in the 4th IO. Most of the powers this can be slotted into are endurance heavy if left on in combat, maxing out the endurance reduction would encourage choosing this set for people that like to leave these powers on in combat. 

 

Also I like the 2/2/6, but why are the fly IOs the only one that doesn't give a set bonus that helps your blue bar? Consider replacing the hp set bonus.

[Booper]

23 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

@Booper I wanted to bring this up again about making the set enhancement values more endurance heavy by putting endredux in the 4th IO. Most of the powers this can be slotted into are endurance heavy if left on in combat, maxing out the endurance reduction would encourage choosing this set for people that like to leave these powers on in combat. 

 

Also I like the 2/2/6, but why are the fly IOs the only one that doesn't give a set bonus that helps your blue bar? Consider replacing the hp set bonus.

I did see that proposal, but I won't be making that change. It's a travel set, and the movement speed will be its predominant piece.

 

As for Hypersonic, there are only three endurance/recovery set bonuses while there are four sets. One was going to lose out.  I'm willing to trade the sustains between Hypersonic and Thrust, give Hypersonic the 2.5% recovery and Thrust the 1.875% HP.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Booper said:

I'm willing to trade the sustains between Hypersonic and Thrust, give Hypersonic the 2.5% recovery and Thrust the 1.875% HP.

that change makes sense to me

[Booper]

Thank for the feedback. In the next build the set bonuses will be changed as follows:

 

• Hypersonic: 2.25% E/N Resist | 2.5% Recovery | 9% Movement Speed
• Launch: 2.25% S/L Resist | 10% Regen | 2.7% Max End
• Thrust: 2.25% F/C Resist | 1.875% HP | 10% Slow Resist
• Warp: 2.25% T/P Resist | 3% End Discount | 7.5% Range

[Hew]

13 hours ago, Booper said:

Thank for the feedback. In the next build the set bonuses will be changed as follows:

 

• Hypersonic: 2.25% E/N Resist | 2.5% Recovery | 9% Movement Speed
• Launch: 2.25% S/L Resist | 10% Regen | 2.7% Max End
• Thrust: 2.25% F/C Resist | 1.875% HP | 10% Slow Resist
• Warp: 2.25% T/P Resist | 3% End Discount | 7.5% Range

GUH. I really liked that 4somesome s/l resist in launch at 4. I would have to rethink this, since that extra 2+ s/l is helpful, but I guess the regen and maxend could be good too.

 

The other three are pretty unimpressive. Maybe hyper if you are keen on travel, hard to say.

[SeraphimKensai]

Been spending my lunch break reading through this and I've come to the conclusion that I must be a weirdo, I keep my travel powers on when I fight typically. Maybe it's an old holdover from PvP, maybe I'm just senile and think NPCs are players too, but I like movement when I fight. Much to some people's dismay when I'm jousting NPCs and other people on a pug tell me they are getting dizzy.

 

I see no fault in design of having these IO procs only work when the power is turned on.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Been spending my lunch break reading through this and I've come to the conclusion that I must be a weirdo, I keep my travel powers on when I fight typically. Maybe it's an old holdover from PvP, maybe I'm just senile and think NPCs are players too, but I like movement when I fight. Much to some people's dismay when I'm jousting NPCs and other people on a pug tell me they are getting dizzy.

 

I see no fault in design of having these IO procs only work when the power is turned on.

Same. Well, speeds and flights typically stay on but not typically super jump / mighty leap just because combat jumping is usually enough in that department.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Same. Well, speeds and flights typically stay on but not typically super jump / mighty leap just because combat jumping is usually enough in that department.

I really don’t know how unusual it is. I don’t leave those on in combat because they cost too much endurance and I find going in and out of suppressed movement jarring and irritating.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I really don’t know how unusual it is. I don’t leave those on in combat because they cost too much endurance and I find going in and out of suppressed movement jarring and irritating.

Well, I will turn it off when soloing an AV or pylon, but otherwise, the end cost is built into my builds. But perhaps this is one reason I tend to slot Stamina more and/or pick Cardiac/Vigor/Ageless Core more often than many of you people.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I have a handful of thoughts (I’m traveling and won’t be able to log in for some time, and I also have little/no interest in figuring things out in Beta):

 

1.  Market ramifications.  I think this is probably my greatest core competency here.  The new slow set is welcome, as it addresses some things that haven’t been addressed.  The proc is a welcome addition with an unused damage type.  The set will make cold- and slow- based sets a lot more versatile.  On the flip side it makes sets without secondary characteristics worse in comparison. Adding a new rare slow set will have little effect on conversion or the economy.
 

I appreciate the dev comments that they are aware of power creep.  And the complaints I see about the new travel sets is that there isn’t enough power creep.  I can get 90%+ of optimal travel at level 1 with sprint, athletic run, and a 5k jet pack, so I get that people mostly don’t care about enhancing travel but are looking for those big fat set bonuses.  My vote is please don’t cave and give 10% ranged defense for 2 slotting teleport or whatever.  As is it adds diversity and thats plenty.  As a new rare category, there will be four new categories that you can hit playing rare roulette.  These things are going to pop up all the time, be cheap as hell, and will make converting more annoying.  I can’t do anything about that, but I anticipate with current trends that fewer people will convert goods for other people and that it will take longer to create items of value and therefore they will b3come less common.

 

DSOs seem interesting.  I discussed this in a Market thread, but there are three easy paths going forward.  1.  The new strike force is the only way to get these items.  The ones that match current HOs will mirror current values and trends.  The new types will be extremely rare.  Lvl 53 D/E, for example, will have plenty of bids from me at the market cap.  2.  Devs introduce new types to HOs.  Dozens/Hundreds of HOs enter the system daily.  We get price discovery,some items will be very valuable, some will not.  3.  Devs figure out a way to convert HOs.  Over the long run I suspect 2 is the healthiest and most likely outcome, but I’d like some official word on that.

 

2.  My thoughts on enhancement balance.  This game is, in my opinion, ludicrously overpowered and easy, people like it that way, and they are going to push hard in that direction.  I think valuable new sets are those that add new enhancement abilities (damage to stun sets, for example), or new ideas (damage procs to stun sets).  Adding a new insta-win set, or something that lets you soft cap a blaster at level 17, doesn’t seem like a good idea.  I am *all for* diversification and trade offs, but the vast majority of people are going to choose 4.5% resistance over 6% regeneration.  My point being don’t give people everything they ask for, since im a curmudgeon.

 

just a few thoughts of mine. 

[scottocamp]

23 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I have a handful of thoughts (I’m traveling and won’t be able to log in for some time, and I also have little/no interest in figuring things out in Beta):

 

1.  Market ramifications.  I think this is probably my greatest core competency here.  The new slow set is welcome, as it addresses some things that haven’t been addressed.  The proc is a welcome addition with an unused damage type.  The set will make cold- and slow- based sets a lot more versatile.  On the flip side it makes sets without secondary characteristics worse in comparison. Adding a new rare slow set will have little effect on conversion or the economy.
 

I appreciate the dev comments that they are aware of power creep.  And the complaints I see about the new travel sets is that there isn’t enough power creep.  I can get 90%+ of optimal travel at level 1 with sprint, athletic run, and a 5k jet pack, so I get that people mostly don’t care about enhancing travel but are looking for those big fat set bonuses.  My vote is please don’t cave and give 10% ranged defense for 2 slotting teleport or whatever.  As is it adds diversity and thats plenty.  As a new rare category, there will be four new categories that you can hit playing rare roulette.  These things are going to pop up all the time, be cheap as hell, and will make converting more annoying.  I can’t do anything about that, but I anticipate with current trends that fewer people will convert goods for other people and that it will take longer to create items of value and therefore they will b3come less common.

 

DSOs seem interesting.  I discussed this in a Market thread, but there are three easy paths going forward.  1.  The new strike force is the only way to get these items.  The ones that match current HOs will mirror current values and trends.  The new types will be extremely rare.  Lvl 53 D/E, for example, will have plenty of bids from me at the market cap.  2.  Devs introduce new types to HOs.  Dozens/Hundreds of HOs enter the system daily.  We get price discovery,some items will be very valuable, some will not.  3.  Devs figure out a way to convert HOs.  Over the long run I suspect 2 is the healthiest and most likely outcome, but I’d like some official word on that.

 

2.  My thoughts on enhancement balance.  This game is, in my opinion, ludicrously overpowered and easy, people like it that way, and they are going to push hard in that direction.  I think valuable new sets are those that add new enhancement abilities (damage to stun sets, for example), or new ideas (damage procs to stun sets).  Adding a new insta-win set, or something that lets you soft cap a blaster at level 17, doesn’t seem like a good idea.  I am *all for* diversification and trade offs, but the vast majority of people are going to choose 4.5% resistance over 6% regeneration.  My point being don’t give people everything they ask for, since im a curmudgeon.

 

just a few thoughts of mine. 

 

It is an odd argument / observation to make - you believe the new travel enhancements will be "cheap as hell" (presumably because no one will want to buy or use them).  But please don't make them attractive enough to actually use because I'm a curmudgeon.   The great thing about CoH is that there is a cap on powers and a cap on slots.  So I can't just add a bunch of great bonuses from four-slotting a travel power without also sacrificing great bonuses from not four-slotting something else.  The value of other sets might be lessened by adding great travel power set bonuses but it is not clear to me that there will be any power creep.  It would just be a shift from using great ranged bonuses or great hold bonuses to instead using great travel power bonuses.  The reality is that players are only going to use set bonuses that are decent to excellent.  Adding "uninspiring" set bonuses is simply wasted effort in my opinion.  They will be ignored and as you note - will simply "make converting more annoying".  Why add enhancements just to add annoyance to the game?  The extra hitch with adding travel power bonuses is that many players, myself included, don't value speed or jump height or teleportation range all that much.  I'm clumsy enough moving slowly.  So I'm even less inclined to move slots and excellent bonuses from a ranged power or a hold to a travel power.  Which means the bonuses have to be even more tempting.  Moving four slots from a ranged power to a travel power is likely to make my build less powerful - even if the travel power bonuses are better.  As the bonuses currently stand I doubt I will ever make use of them.   I'm not saying that because I'm trying to make the game easier to play.  I'm just trying to offer honest feedback about what would motivate me to actually ever use these travel enhancement sets.

[Yomo Kimyata]

55 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

  And the complaints I see about the new travel sets is that there isn’t enough power creep.  I can get 90%+ of optimal travel at level 1 with sprint, athletic run, and a 5k jet pack, so I get that people mostly don’t care about enhancing travel but are looking for those big fat set bonuses.  
 

people like it that way, and they are going to push hard in that direction. 

 

just a few thoughts of mine. 

 

2 minutes ago, scottocamp said:

 

It is an odd argument / observation to make - you believe the new travel enhancements will be "cheap as hell" (presumably because no one will want to buy or use them).  But please don't make them attractive enough to actually use because I'm a curmudgeon.   The great thing about CoH is that there is a cap on powers and a cap on slots.  So I can't just add a bunch of great bonuses from four-slotting a travel power without also sacrificing great bonuses from not four-slotting something else.  The value of other sets might be lessened by adding great travel power set bonuses but it is not clear to me that there will be any power creep.  It would just be a shift from using great ranged bonuses or great hold bonuses to instead using great travel power bonuses.  The reality is that players are only going to use set bonuses that are decent to excellent.  Adding "uninspiring" set bonuses is simply wasted effort in my opinion.  They will be ignored and as you note - will simply "make converting more annoying".  Why add enhancements just to add annoyance to the game?  The extra hitch with adding travel power bonuses is that many players, myself included, don't value speed or jump height or teleportation range all that much.  I'm clumsy enough moving slowly.  So I'm even less inclined to move slots and excellent bonuses from a ranged power or a hold to a travel power.  Which means the bonuses have to be even more tempting.  Moving four slots from a ranged power to a travel power is likely to make my build less powerful - even if the travel power bonuses are better.  As the bonuses currently stand I doubt I will ever make use of them.   I'm not saying that because I'm trying to make the game easier to play.  I'm just trying to offer honest feedback about what would motivate me to actually ever use these travel enhancement sets.

I appreciate your validation of my observation that the player base wants things more overpowered!

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 minutes ago, scottocamp said:

 

It is an odd argument / observation to make - you believe the new travel enhancements will be "cheap as hell" (presumably because no one will want to buy or use them). 

With four new rare categories, starting with a random rare you will have roughly a 1 in 9 chance of getting one of the new sets on a convert by rarity.  They will be cheap as hell not because they are useless and there is no demand, but because the supply will be far far greater.

[scottocamp]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I appreciate your validation of my observation that the player base wants things more overpowered!

 

More over-powered has already happened.  I can quite easily completely fill any build with nothing but amazing set bonuses from Winter sets, PvP sets, purple sets, etc.  The question at hand is why slot these new travel power sets instead of say a purple set I already have in my build?   Especially since that purple set is probably in an attack and these sets will be in a jump or teleport power.  These sets are not going to make my builds any more powerful than they already are.  And I'm not hoping for that to happen. 

 

[Sovera]

My own point is that they bonuses are so unappealing (even in the last suggestion) that they might as well not be in the game. It's not me railing against Booper for a lack of imagination or the devs for not allowing better/more useful bonuses, just an observation based on multitude of builds built, on goals that were aimed for, and current sets we already have.

 

If suddenly we had an extra 10 slots to play with I would maybe consider them but it would be niche.

 

Now, well, my point of view is but my own. Others said that they were happy with it. Some even play with their travel powers on? Obviously -someone- will find use for the new sets. I wonder to myself how statistically significant that percentage will be though.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Sovera

[Booper]

Release Candidate 1 Updates:

 

Hypersonic

A rare 4-piece Flying IO set that includes a unique IO that will grant your character a power mod that provides +2.0 fly protection when using the fly power it's slotted in. This set has a level range of 15-50 and its level 50 pre-E.D. enhancement values are 95.4% flying speed and 68.9% endurance reduction.

Fixed description inconsistencies between the recipes and enhancements. They should now match.

• Enhancements:
  • Flying 
  • Endurance Reduction / Flying 
  • Endurance Reduction
  • Flying / +Fly Protection
• Set bonuses:
  • 2-piece: (Small) 2.25% Damage Resistance (Energy/Negative) and 3.75% Mez Resistance (All)
  • 3-piece: (Large) 2.5% Recovery
  • 4-piece: (Huge) 9% Movement Speed

Launch

A rare 4-piece Leaping IO set that includes a unique IO that will grant your character incredible leaping potential while using the jump power it's slotted in. This extra leaping effect will grant your character +8 feet of jump height and +40 feet of maximum jump height for 120s (if click power) or until the jump power is toggled off. This set has a level range of 15-50 and its level 50 pre-E.D. enhancement values are 95.4% jumping speed/height and 68.9% endurance reduction.

• Enhancements:
  • Jumping
  • Endurance Reduction / Jumping 
  • Endurance Reduction
  • Jumping / +Jump Height
• Set bonuses:
  • 2-piece: (Small) 2.25% Damage Resistance (Smash/Lethal) and 3.75% Mez Resistance (All)
  • 3-piece: (Large) 10% Regeneration
  • 4-piece: (Huge) 2.7% Max Endurance

Thrust

A rare 4-piece Running IO set that includes a unique IO that will grant your character extra running speed when using the run power it's slotted in. This extra run speed is 5 mph, can be increased with enhancements and outside strength buffs, does not suppress in combat, and will last for 120s (if click power) or until when the run power is toggled off. This set has a level range of 15-50 and its level 50 pre-E.D. enhancement values are 95.4% running speed and 68.9% endurance reduction.

Fixed description inconsistencies between the recipes and enhancements. They should now match.

Updated the description of Thrust's unique to read as: Grantes a small amount of run speed that will not suppress in combat and can be enhanced.

• Enhancements:
  • Running
  • Endurance Reduction / Running
  • Endurance Reduction
  • Running / +Run Speed
• Set bonuses:
  • 2-piece: (Small) 2.25% Damage Resistance (Fire/Cold) and 3.75% Mez Resistance (All)
  • 3-piece: (Large) 1.875% Max Hit Points
  • 4-piece: (Huge) 10% Slow Resistance

Warp

A rare 4-piece Teleportation IO set that includes a unique IO that will grant your character heightened spatial awareness when using the teleportation power it's slotted in. This extra effect provides a 20% increase to perception radius and will last for 120s. This set has a level range of 15-50 and its level 50 pre-E.D. enhancement values are 53.4% range and 68.9% endurance reduction.

• Enhancements:
  • Range
  • Endurance Reduction / Range
  • Endurance Reduction
  • Range / +Perception
• Set bonuses:
  • 2-piece: (Small) 2.25% Damage Resistance (Psionic/Toxic) and 3.75% Mez Resistance (All)
  • 3-piece: (Large) 3% Endurance Discount
  • 4-piece: (Huge) 7.5% Range

[Wavicle]

These look to me like they will be attractive to people interested in prioritizing travel in their slotting, while not being so good as to make them absolutely essential for anyone else.

 

They are a strong Flavor addition.

 

I might have one or two characters I will use them on.

[Hew]

Launch is actually an amazing option. even downgraded. Just takes some outside-the-meta thinking how to use it.