Placate not causing Hidden?

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

As I  understood it, it just puts you in "hidden" state to the target of the stalker's placate and not into a "hidden" state to other nearby targets.

I am not 100% certain, but I think it does put you in the "hidden" state as that is a "self" status. However... nearby targets who are not placated might still engage with you and cause that hidden state to disappear. 

[UltraAlt]

51 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I am not 100% certain, but I think it does put you in the "hidden" state as that is a "self" status. However... nearby targets who are not placated might still engage with you and cause that hidden state to disappear. 

 Correct. That is the way that I understood it.

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 Correct. That is the way that I understood it.

 

Keep in mind, as discovered in the video, Placate is now an AoE Placate. Not sure of the range, but that helps keep nearby targets off you.

[Vanden]

7 hours ago, Bopper said:

It appears Placate's effect that sets you to hidden (Meter attribute) is being affected by Purple Patch.

 

Bopper’s got it in one; 99.9% chance this is the problem right here. “Hidden” status is governed by the Meter attribute. Placate sets Meter to 100%, but it’s triggered off an enemy. The purple patch reduces the effectiveness of powers used on higher-level targets, so if the effect isn’t flagged to ignore level differences, using Placate on a higher-level enemy will only set Meter to 90% or less. No 100% Meter, no Hidden status.

 

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Keep in mind, as discovered in the video, Placate is now an AoE Placate.

 

Well, you may have discovered it in the video, but others just read the patch notes. <.<

[Solarverse]

10 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

Bopper’s got it in one; 99.9% chance this is the problem right here. “Hidden” status is governed by the Meter attribute. Placate sets Meter to 100%, but it’s triggered off an enemy. The purple patch reduces the effectiveness of powers used on higher-level targets, so if the effect isn’t flagged to ignore level differences, using Placate on a higher-level enemy will only set Meter to 90% or less. No 100% Meter, no Hidden status.

 

 

Well, you may have discovered it in the video, but others just read the patch notes. <.<

 

yeah yeah, rub it in!  🤣

[Cancrusher]

I would suspect you have a toggle going that either creates a taunt effect or damages nearby foes.   This would snap them out of the placate (I think).  Or maybe you're just fighting some things that have resistance to placate?  Just a couple of theories. 

[Troo]

@Cancrusher nope

Energy/Regen Stalker 

 

No toggles or DoT.

[Cancrusher]

Hm... alrighty.  No idea then.  🤷‍♂️

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Cancrusher said:

Hm... alrighty.  No idea then.  🤷‍♂️

 

We figured it out. If you are curious, read the thread and links provided. The mystery has been solved and it is indeed a bug.  🙂

[Cancrusher]

Right on.  I just started playing an electric/energy stalker, so it's something I'll need to know.  Thanks for the link.  🙂👍

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Keep in mind, as discovered in the video, Placate is now an AoE Placate. Not sure of the range, but that helps keep nearby targets off you.

 

I guess it should be pointed out as well that it it will "hide you" and not that you become "hidden".

 

•   Placate  Ranged, Foe Placate, Self Stealth/Hide
  • Allows you to trick a foe to no longer attack you. A Successful Placate will also Hide you. This Hide is very brief, and offers no Defense bonus, but it will allow you to deliver a Critical Hit or an Assassins Blow. However, if you attack a Placated Foe, he will be able to attack you back. 

 

 

[Wavicle]

35 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I guess it should be pointed out as well that it it will "hide you" and not that you become "hidden".

 

•   Placate  Ranged, Foe Placate, Self Stealth/Hide
  • Allows you to trick a foe to no longer attack you. A Successful Placate will also Hide you. This Hide is very brief, and offers no Defense bonus, but it will allow you to deliver a Critical Hit or an Assassins Blow. However, if you attack a Placated Foe, he will be able to attack you back. 

 

 

based on Bopper’s findings, I’m going to do some testing to see if it gives Hidden status when used on lower level mobs but not on higher level mobs.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

based on Bopper’s findings, I’m going to do some testing to see if it gives Hidden status when used on lower level mobs but not on higher level mobs.

It's been tested. Gives Hidden status on anything your level or below. Does not give hidden status anything above your level unless you are level shifted, in which case it works on anything +1 to your level or below.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Solarverse

[Replacement]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I guess it should be pointed out as well that it it will "hide you" and not that you become "hidden".

 

•   Placate  Ranged, Foe Placate, Self Stealth/Hide
  • Allows you to trick a foe to no longer attack you. A Successful Placate will also Hide you. This Hide is very brief, and offers no Defense bonus, but it will allow you to deliver a Critical Hit or an Assassins Blow. However, if you attack a Placated Foe, he will be able to attack you back. 

 

 

 

So, City of Heroes doesn't have a mechanic, per se, to Hide from individual enemies.

 

Hidden is just a flag that tells the game how Assassination (inherent) and Assassin's Strike should work. By itself does nothing to stop someone from punching you (and thus losing Hidden).

 

Placate (the effect) is essentially mez. The affected enemy is just not allowed to target you.*

 

Hide grants Stealth and Hidden 

Placate (the power) grants placate (effect), Hidden, and Stealth (though this last part mostly is just to trigger aura suppression).

 

* I never noticed before this past beta cycle so it may be new, but if you're stealthed when placate's duration runs out, they seem to drop you off their hate list as well.

[UltraAlt]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:25 AM, Replacement said:

So, City of Heroes doesn't have a mechanic, per se, to Hide from individual enemies.

 

Oh, but at least it did.

Placate did hide you from from an individual enemy before the change. I was able to get full assassin strikes on enemies by using pacify on them before using an assassin strike.

I alt jump a lot, but I have several stalkers. I would quite frequently get to the middle of a fight, assassin strike a boss, fight with them until my assassin strike recharged, placate them, and then assassin strike them to finish them off.

But it was/is for a hide short period of time until it wears off. It simply did not grant you hidden status. It was simply a hide until the power's duration wore off.

 

   Placate

Allows you to trick a foe to no longer attack you. A Successful Placate will also Hide you. This Hide is very brief, and offers no Defense bonus, but it will allow you to deliver a Critical Hit or an Assassin's Blade. However, if you attack a Placated Foe, he will be able to attack you back.

 

Now it is AoE. It was single target.

 

 Pacify

Through persuasion or subtle intimidation, you attempt to placate a single target for a short time. If successful, the affected target will no longer attack you. This persists until the effect expires or you attack the target. Unlike other placation effects, this power will not hide you or give any concealment bonuses.

 

"unlike other placation effects" seems to be quite clear.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by UltraAlt

[Troo]

anyone know if this is being addressed or is on a list/road map?

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

anyone know if this is being addressed or is on a list/road map?

Yeah, this bug has been passed along and will be fixed. I did additional research on this topic and found the following details not yet shared:

 

The impacts of this bug are both cosmetic and performance base. The cosmetic bug is the "Hidden" message will only show up if your kMeter is at 1.0 or more, which was the cause for alarm in this bug report. We'd use Placate but not see "Hidden". It turns out, this mostly does not matter as almost every stealth crit effect checks for "if kMeter > 0". So even though we may not have our kMeter reach 1.0 to see "Hidden", our attacks still see that we are "somewhat hidden" and goes ahead with the stealth crit effect anyways. Since VEATs don't have non-hidden crits, they were not impacted and will see absolutely no change to performance with this bug fix, which leads us to Stalkers.

 

What is impacted by this bug: Assassin's Strike and non-crit effects. Assassin's Strike uses redirects that is supposed to check if you are hidden or not. However, instead of first checking to see if kMeter > 0, it checks for if kMeter < 0.9 (which is standard for effects checking for non-hide crits). Because it is checking for kMeter < 0.9, we see Placate against higher level foes causing AS to redirect to the Fast version instead of falling back to the Slow version. The bug fix will correct this behavior. 

 

Of that same nature, the non-hide crits for Stalkers are double-dipping. Placate (from outside of Hide) used against foes that are +2 level or greater will result in your kMeter being set to something between 0 and 0.8. Well, when stealth crit effects check for kMeter > 0 and non-hide crit effects check for kMeter < 0.9, that means both effects will be satisfied. This also means it is possible to get two crits with your attack: the stealth crit (100% of the time) and the non-hide crit (10%-31% of the time). I tested this theory with my energy melee stalker against level 54 Rikti in RWZ. Sure enough, I pulled off a triple Energy Focus crit thanks to Placate.

 

So all that being said, yeah...it's definitely getting fixed. Bugs like that don't live long in this game.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

AS to redirect to the Fast version instead of falling back to the Slow version. The bug fix will correct this behavior.

 

whew.

 

thanks for the additional details.

[Solarverse]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:49 AM, Bopper said:

Yeah, this bug has been passed along and will be fixed. I did additional research on this topic and found the following details not yet shared:

 

The impacts of this bug are both cosmetic and performance base. The cosmetic bug is the "Hidden" message will only show up if your kMeter is at 1.0 or more, which was the cause for alarm in this bug report. We'd use Placate but not see "Hidden". It turns out, this mostly does not matter as almost every stealth crit effect checks for "if kMeter > 0". So even though we may not have our kMeter reach 1.0 to see "Hidden", our attacks still see that we are "somewhat hidden" and goes ahead with the stealth crit effect anyways. Since VEATs don't have non-hidden crits, they were not impacted and will see absolutely no change to performance with this bug fix, which leads us to Stalkers.

 

What is impacted by this bug: Assassin's Strike and non-crit effects. Assassin's Strike uses redirects that is supposed to check if you are hidden or not. However, instead of first checking to see if kMeter > 0, it checks for if kMeter < 0.9 (which is standard for effects checking for non-hide crits). Because it is checking for kMeter < 0.9, we see Placate against higher level foes causing AS to redirect to the Fast version instead of falling back to the Slow version. The bug fix will correct this behavior. 

 

Of that same nature, the non-hide crits for Stalkers are double-dipping. Placate (from outside of Hide) used against foes that are +2 level or greater will result in your kMeter being set to something between 0 and 0.8. Well, when stealth crit effects check for kMeter > 0 and non-hide crit effects check for kMeter < 0.9, that means both effects will be satisfied. This also means it is possible to get two crits with your attack: the stealth crit (100% of the time) and the non-hide crit (10%-31% of the time). I tested this theory with my energy melee stalker against level 54 Rikti in RWZ. Sure enough, I pulled off a triple Energy Focus crit thanks to Placate.

 

So all that being said, yeah...it's definitely getting fixed. Bugs like that don't live long in this game.

 

Fixing a bug that negatively affects a Stalker and catching a possible exploit of a bug with one stone, couldn't ask for much better than that. Nice catch and thank for the update.