Do you PL in AE?

[Nightmarer 2]

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

AE can be a nice change of pace from the same content that's been available (while the game was running) for years. 

It's not all about the XP. I like it for the vet levels and resulting emp merits. I don't care about the inf. I already have that. I just want the emp merits, and they're low hanging fruit in AE because of the ease in leveling. 

I also find it soothing sometimes just mindlessly doing the Atta cave map while listening to David Bowie on my headphones. It is nice especially after a nasty day.

[Ukase]

I remember a well-intentioned farmer a few months ago. I was on a re-roll of a character, so I knew the powersets, already had the build in mids, and was actually about to go to Faultline AE and PL myself on an alt account. But, curiosity got the best of me, and I figured I might see if this player was any good at farming, at least compared to my own afk-farmer. 

The xp was maybe a touch faster, but I saw the farmer with alt account giving him buffs, so figured him for someone who really didn't understand how to build a farmer for solo work. And, I could be wrong in that assessment. But, the thing that stuck out to me was he/she had told me to get the 2xp buff. I shared with him that I would rather have the inf. I didn't want to be level 25 with only the inf from the sales of whatever dropped. (which to be fair is usually about 4M - enough for level 25 SOs. ) Not that I needed the inf, or that I really wanted it - I wanted to hear why he was pushing the sitters to get it. 

I never did get an explanation, other than he/she felt like if folks were going to sit, they might as well get as much XP as they could. 

There was never a caveat about learning to understand/play your character. There was never a reminder that they wouldn't make any influence using 2xp buff. 
So, I felt like this was poor form. I mean, it's nice enough to offer a spot on your farm, but I think it does a dis-service to newer players. And if you aren't checking to see who's new, then might you be setting someone up for failure? Being level 25 or so, with just a few million from the drops, with no reward merits, no exploration badges, no history of teaming with other folks, you're kind of at a dis-advantage, not really knowing anything about how your character should be played. (unless it's something you've done before - and in that context, no worries from me) 

The only annoying thing I've ever experience from those who get PL'd are their ignorance of where zones outside of Atlas and Pocket D are, and showing up to TFs unslotted because they just left the farm and don't have the funds to get enhancements, and honestly, they wouldn't know if they should slot for endurance or recharge, because they've never learned how much endurance their armor might use.

As someone else mentioned - that has more to do with being an inexperience player than being a sitter. But, because the two were combined, the result is pretty sad. 

[Lyrium]

Very rarely I jump in AE for some levels. I don't care/mind people PL'ing/farming for hours, each one can play the way they want, after all, they pay their own sub...oh wait 🙂 

 

The only thing that disgusts me is people beggin LFG for PL. Jump in whenever someone offers a spot, but dont beg.

[Greycat]

59 minutes ago, roleki said:

 

And this is one of the milder threads on the subject.  On these very forums, I have had someone tell me I would never be able to "woo a woman" (their words) because I PL.

 

Well, running up to a woman and going "WOO!" usually gets anything from an odd look to a call to 911. So, really, not missing out on anything there regardless.

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

Insta-50 characters would generate zero inf*, zero salvage, zero recipes, zero SOs, which means they would not only add nothing to the market or the economy, they'd impose a massive drain on available market resources, driving inflation into an uncontrolled upswing.  My lack of shits to give about what anyone else does ends where IO recipe prices blow past the inf* cap again.

 

It's been a bad idea every time someone's brought it up, it's still a bad idea.

I am not saying its a good idea, but this logic is not wholly sound. 

 

1.  Not generating inf - (a) this is inherently deflationary (b) inf generation by 1-49s is a drop in the ocean compared to 50s.

 

2.  Not generating salvage - salvage is completely fungible.  A lvl 50 spirit thorn and a lvl25 clockwork winder are indistinguishable on the market.  This is a literal non factor.  And 1-49 salvage generation is again a drop in the ocean to what lvl 50s are cranking out.

 

3.  Not generating recipes - again, fungible.  Lvl 50 IOs sold on the market can be bought at any level that IO can exist at.  If the concern is that you end up with fewer 10-30 recipes, then just buy some 20-50 recipes at lvl 20 on the market and convert them or run more Positrons.  Exemped 50s get lower level recipe drops, and I imagine they probably also out pace the supply of natural lowbies.  

 

4.  Zero SOs - what?  who is buying or selling SOs on the market these days?  Is this actually a thing?

 

5.  Increased high value IO demand - yes, probably, but all that's doing is accelerating the demand because you've POSSIBLY lowered the barrier to entry....and about that...

 

6.  Cost of a lvl 50 token - opportunity for a giant inf sink to fight any inflationary trends and to act as a stand in barrier to the leveling process, fighting any inflated demand from the above point.  

 

Most of your points are nonsense or deflationary.  The only possible inflationary factor is the increased demand, which can be countered with a proper price point on the lvl 50 token.

 

I agree its a bad idea, but please use some sound reasoning.  

[Aracknight]

When I found Homecoming, I admit to using farms, MSRs and any other means necessary to rebuild my main, a scrapper from live.  I felt ok with that because while I dont claim to be a master of all scrappers, i knew this one inside and out.

 

When i decided to try to build a tanker version of my ma/sr scrapper, I did the same thing, figuring it wasn't that big a deal.

 

I was wrong.  I had never played a tank, let alone this tank, and although my mids-fu is strong, i didn't know how to  be a tank.  The 1-50 grind is what teaches us how to play a character properly.  My tank was a bAEby, and it shows.  He's survivable as hell but as a Scrapper all i knew about protecting a teammate was to annihilate the bad guys before realizing "oh yeah, im on a team."

 

The bAEby phenomena is real.  A 50 incarnate tank, piloted by a veteran player should know what they are doing.

 

You cant convince me the bAEby phenomena isnt real when 3 members of an ITF who are t3+ incarnated 50s and running shiny forum builds can't find their pancaking way to Cimerora.

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

The 1-50 grind is what teaches us how to play a character properly. 

 

I disagree entirely.

[Akalabeth]

@Ukase

 

I will share my thoughts on the 2xp thing.  When you sit on someone farms they get less Inf.  Saying you want to get inf instead of xp is the same as "give me free inf" because you are getting part of what they should.

 

I really don't understand why people level the beggars just like I don't understand why someone who says in LFG "ned 10m influance pls" actually gets people sending it to them.

[Erratic1]

4 hours ago, Krimson said:

If you are running endless radio missions, you are farming. If you run Unai Kemen missions and don't finish them, you are farming. Maria Jenkins all day? Farming. iTrial train? Farming. Any activity that is repeated ad nauseum is pretty much farming. Only some types are more acceptable than others. If I run endless radio missions, and go out of my way to pick Council? Fine. If I put the EXACT SAME Council on the Dreck Map in AE so I can spend an hour on one thing instead of multiple things, all of a sudden it is Badwrongfun. 

 

I would go so far as to include running endless TFs on the list.

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

In one of the last discussions on this topic, I seem to remember someone (apologies as I do not remember who specifically) had suggested that the level 50 tokens be consumable on use and earned/unlocked through "normal", non-farming game play.  Personally, I think that idea has merit. 

The problem here is having the game engine recognize "'normal', non-farming game play".  As I recall, the devs said they would love to nerf AFK farming but had not found a way to reliably do so that would not inadvertently catch people who were not AFK farming.

 

How do we define 'non-farming gameplay'?  There are plenty of ways to farm without setting foot in AE.  The Dreck map used to be a favorite.  The warwolf and Axis America maps were also popular.  How many times can I run one before it's 'farming'?  What if I run all three of them back-to-back, then do that again.  Will the game recognize that as farming?  How about if I run the weekly strike target 10 times during the week - but on different characters each time?  What if I have multiple accounts?

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

The problem here is having the game engine recognize "'normal', non-farming game play". 

 

Not difficult at all.  The tokens could require a series of defeat and/or achievement badges as part of the requirement.  You cannot achieve things like TF Commander or defeat badges inside AE farms. 

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

Not difficult at all.  The tokens could require a series of defeat and/or achievement badges as part of the requirement.  You cannot achieve things like TF Commander or defeat badges inside AE farms. 

And yet, as I specifically pointed out, you can massively farm without setting foot in AE.

Defeat badges?  Okay, let me run the Dreck map six times.  So, unless you're defining 'non-farming gameplay' as anything outside of AE, it just isn't that easy for the game to measure it.

[Saikochoro]

I use it because even on live I didn’t care for story arcs or the slog to 50. I get my enjoyment by making tons of different characters and seeing them at the max potential from my point of view. 
 

It honestly doesn’t matter why people use it. Only that people do use it, and at least part of the reason is for farming. 
 

The real answer is that people need to stop trying to dictate how others play. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Aracknight said:

The 1-50 grind is what teaches us how to play a character properly.

 

If you need 50 levels of normal grinding to figure out how to play a character... ANY character... in THIS game, there's absolutely zero help for you.

 

This shit is NOT rocket surgery.

 

Yes, I PL alts with a fire farmer on my 2nd account often. I was doing the full 1 to 50 and now I'll generally do it whenever I get bored with a specific level range. I only farm to PL my alts. All the rest of my inf comes from selling all worthwhile garbage on AH for 111 inf and the rest to the store in my base. I can fully kit out a new alt at any time at buy now prices on the AH living/playing this way.

 

Edit typos.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Troo]

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I disagree entirely.

 

"entirely"? Really?

Just because I'm an expert level Stalker doesn't mean I know all the ins and out of another AT I've never played. Do I need to grind 1-50, probably not.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

This shit is NOT rocket surgery.

 

Troo, but there is a bit of a learning curve for many powersets and definitely for some ATs. (I just don't get Dominators and the perma-dom requirement)

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Troo

[Aracknight]

Perhaps "expertly" would be a better word than "properly."

[SeraphimKensai]

12 hours ago, Akalabeth said:

The problem I have is the begging all day and night especially on weekends for someone to level them.  If you wanna level your own characters that's fine, but I doubt a majority actually do that with second accounts. 

 

"it defeats the purpose of sitting" is what I've heard.

I personally don't like the begging in LFG and such myself. As you mentioned there's ignore, but I try to save ignore for the true assholes of the game and don't use it sparingly. I end up just willing myself to immediately forget that I saw their begging. That said in this day and age as long as someone has updated their PC in say the last 10 years and they aren't using a Chromebook or have internet from Hughs.net then they can reasonably dual box at a minimum.

 

I find myself using my three accounts to have an afk farmer work maps, a lowbie in the map to get xp and recipe drops, while playing content on another character, and just alt tab as I zone out of missions to reset the map. It took me literally about 8-10 hours to lvl up my first fire farmer solo in the AE from lvl 1-50, and slot it.  I used that toon to level up a farmer one each of the other 2 accounts, and then made some off the wall farmers like blasters and a team of MM's just to play around with it. But having a farm map running in the background while I run the Freakolympics or Dr. Quarterfield or something has gotten me about a third of the lvl 50s I had back on live. I don't really anticipate getting back up to 382 lvl 50s, but I've passively put a good dent back into it, while getting a ton of influence, salvage, and IO recipes to fuel my marketing desires

 

I'm probably a bit of an outlier though when trying to consider your typical CoX gamer, but farming yourself alts is not a lot of work, and fairly lucrative, and doesn't make me feel like a leech. That said the player base will do what they want regarding farming.

 

That said there's some really great story arcs on the AE that aren't farms, and then you have @Linea's missions for when you really want to test a build's mettle.

[Ironblade]

33 minutes ago, Troo said:

"entirely"? Really?

Just because I'm an expert level Stalker doesn't mean I know all the ins and out of another AT I've never played. Do I need to grind 1-50, probably not.

 

Troo, but there is a bit of a learning curve for many powersets and definitely for some ATs. (I just don't get Dominators and the perma-dom requirement)

There was marvelous quote back on live.  I don't recall who it was from.

 

Playing two different scrapper powersets is like the difference between playing tennis and playing racquetball.

Playing two different defender powersets is like the difference between playing hockey and playing piano.

[Ukase]

5 hours ago, Akalabeth said:

@Ukase

 

I will share my thoughts on the 2xp thing.  When you sit on someone farms they get less Inf.  Saying you want to get inf instead of xp is the same as "give me free inf" because you are getting part of what they should.

 

I really don't understand why people level the beggars just like I don't understand why someone who says in LFG "ned 10m influance pls" actually gets people sending it to them.

For me, the reason they sometimes get it is because they generally want to buy enhancements. I would rather team with someone that had begged for and gotten the inf for enhancements than the player who doesn't have enhancements. I realize that's probably rewarding bad behavior, but it's not like it's real money. 

[Troo]

I agree with the many folks who said level 50 tokens could be a bad idea. (their individual reasoning aside)

We can acknowledge though, that many folks wanna skip levels. I could be agreeable to a vehicle for this IF somehow, even comically, it is earned.

I have said before a lower level token might be better. Level ~40 seems reasonable while still being a tad inconvenient (this isn't Christmas).

It also would still require activities from levels ~40 through 50 to keep the wheels turning.

 

 

I'll start another topic with details that can be debated and ridiculed.

[ShardWarrior]

4 hours ago, Ironblade said:

And yet, as I specifically pointed out, you can massively farm without setting foot in AE.

Defeat badges?  Okay, let me run the Dreck map six times.  So, unless you're defining 'non-farming gameplay' as anything outside of AE, it just isn't that easy for the game to measure it.

 

If you have run the Dreck map six times, you have at least played the character which is a common complaint about farming.  It all depends on what blend of badges would be required to unlock the token.  The suggestion was offering a solution to the usual rant that the game is polluted by these mythical AE babies, who are fully decked out incarnates and yet do not know how to play. 

 

Sure, badges can be farmed, however if we are talking about things like accolades and such that require a few different badges, those need at least some level of player participation to complete.  Unless you want to suggest that these mythical AE babies are soloing all the content required to obtain accolades, which does not make them inexperienced players anymore. 

 

The idea has some merit in my opinion.  You are more than welcome to disagree.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

"entirely"? Really?

Just because I'm an expert level Stalker doesn't mean I know all the ins and out of another AT I've never played. Do I need to grind 1-50, probably not.

 

Yes, I do disagree with the comment.  In my opinion, this game simply is not that difficult to master, regardless of AT. 

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

Most of your points are nonsense or deflationary.  The only possible inflationary factor is the increased demand, which can be countered with a proper price point on the lvl 50 token.

 

I agree its a bad idea, but please use some sound reasoning.  

 

Farming or normal leveling: character generates his/her own supply of inf*; character receives salvage, common IO recipes and SOs as drops, which can be sold for inf*; character receives IO set recipes, which can be crafted/crafted + converted/crafted + sold on AH/sold without crafting on AH/retained for personal use.  Regardless of inf* generation via defeats or sales, the salvage and IO set recipes which the character adds to the AH, or keeps for personal use, helps mitigate inflation.  Supply maintains pace with demand, pricing structure remains stable.  Very low inflation.

 

Instant level 50: character generates no inf*; character receives no salvage, common IO recipes or SOs to sell; character receives no IO set recipes for crafting/conversion/direct AH sale/personal use.  Compounding absolute lack of inf* is an immediate and urgent need for enhancements.  AH stock of valued recipes and enhancements, such as purples, LotG Def/+Global Rchg and 3% +Def IOs, is diminished when these insta-50 characters go shopping with currency handed down from another character, increasing prices.  AH stock of "junk" recipes and enhancements, such as sniper sets, diminishes as players attempt to use converters to compensate for shortfall, increasing prices.  Very high inflation.

 

I can't make it any plainer without crayons.

[Troo]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

I can't make it any plainer without crayons.

 

 poppycock

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

Farming or normal leveling: character generates his/her own supply of inf*; character receives salvage, common IO recipes and SOs as drops, which can be sold for inf*; character receives IO set recipes, which can be crafted/crafted + converted/crafted + sold on AH/sold without crafting on AH/retained for personal use.  Regardless of inf* generation via defeats or sales, the salvage and IO set recipes which the character adds to the AH, or keeps for personal use, helps mitigate inflation.  Supply maintains pace with demand, pricing structure remains stable.  Very low inflation.

 

Instant level 50: character generates no inf*; character receives no salvage, common IO recipes or SOs to sell; character receives no IO set recipes for crafting/conversion/direct AH sale/personal use.  Compounding absolute lack of inf* is an immediate and urgent need for enhancements.  AH stock of valued recipes and enhancements, such as purples, LotG Def/+Global Rchg and 3% +Def IOs, is diminished when these insta-50 characters go shopping with currency handed down from another character, increasing prices.  AH stock of "junk" recipes and enhancements, such as sniper sets, diminishes as players attempt to use converters to compensate for shortfall, increasing prices.  Very high inflation.

 

I can't make it any plainer without crayons.

1) And that player who then hits 50 is doing what?  Deleting all drops from that day forward? No, they are selling those drops to fund the next character.  So instead of generating meager and inefficient drops as a lowbie leveling, they're cranking out high levels of productivity to dump on the market.  Front loaded production vs back loaded production. Still same amount of drops generated, or likely more.

 

2) As mentioned, you can limit the number of flooded 50s via a cost to the insta-50 coin.  You don't just end up with millions of new 50s if you have to pay 500 mil for the token.  Solvable issue with just a modicum of effort.

 

You are so far off base its worrisome.