Masterminds have wanted changes for years now.

[eldriyth]

What do we get instead? Bards. Can the devs actually listen to half of their player base? Everybody I knew that played a MM was excited to see some love in this update and has now lost all hope. We won't be seeing another page until next year so yeah.. fun.

[arcane]

8 hours ago, eldriyth said:

Everybody I knew that played a MM

Ok but who do you really know that likes MM’s

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Ok but who do you really know that likes MM’s

Uhm... I do. I know people that like MMs and I love MMs. (And I've said so on other threads previously.)

 

I read your comment as a blanket 'no one likes MMs', and so it seems you think no one plays MMs. And that would obviously be wrong. I see as many MMs running around when I play as I see Tankers.

[Faelia]

Agreed but it'll be like pulling teeth with these devs.

[Greycat]

Yeah, this small, volunteer staff should do what we pay them to do, not what they want or can do! Swear if this keeps up we should take our $0 somewhere else!

[lemming]

I'm predicting this "suggestion" thread is going to be binned.  I guess it's more a feedback, but needs constructiveness.

 

Changes happen due to a bunch of different factors.   Ease of coding, coolness, and playibility are parts if it, community asking for it can spark it and sometimes it goes in a different direction.

 

I think this patch shows a lot of work, and quality wise, I see it ranking higher than a lot of paid work I've had a non-pleasure to QA

[TheZag]

MMs havent received any new powersets but the henchmen recharge time reduction has been very helpful.  I dont recall any new control sets yet either,  so control is just as due as henchmen.

 

The fact that we get updates at all from an unpaid team on free servers is amazing.

 

 

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Uhm... I do. I know people that like MMs and I love MMs. (And I've said so on other threads previously.)

 

I read your comment as a blanket 'no one likes MMs', and so it seems you think no one plays MMs. And that would obviously be wrong. I see as many MMs running around when I play as I see Tankers.

Obviously any implication that *no one* plays or likes *anything* is a healthy blend of sarcasm and hyperbole with a grain of truth. So calm thine tits 🙂 

[Rudra]

Sarcasm doesn't translate well to text. Was just responding about my interpretation of the post.

[blue4333]

Agreed. The pet cast time changes were a step in the right direction but the Devs should have gone ahead and adjusted the T1 and T2 pets to match the Mastermind's level while they were looking at fixing the cast times.

 

I guess whatever changes they make now is just depending on what kind of character concepts they or their friends would like to play in game. 

 

In my time lurking in suggestions, I don't think I've seen a Symphonic Control set but way more threads/posts asking about adding the Musical Notes FX to Sonic Blast and Sonic Resonance.

[Clave Dark 5]

I figure someone on staff was a huge fan of the recent Dr. Strange movie, ha ha.

 

Still, I'm looking forward to digging my old Mercs/Nature MM out of mothballs to see how the rifle changes work out.

[Ruin Mage]

Oh boy, more "devs do what we say or you STINK."

Entitlement is stored in the keyboard.

[The_Warpact]

Well in the OP defense I will say I thought there was supposed to be MM fixes/changes coming and was disappointed to not see anything. But, not to that dramatic level.

 

The approach is all wrong though, you'll get no sympathy from the people OP.

Although, there is a poster in the general beta section that had some good suggestions. On stuff that would have been better.

 

I would have rather seen more powerset proliferation, fixes, or content other than some of the stuff(vet rewards nerf specifically and new currency for costumes).

 

People have been asking for MM fixes (Mercs), more proliferation/new stuff for awhile. So I can understand that frustration, but, the drama and approach of that post...yeah not so much.

[Ruin Mage]

Were the MM fixes/changes talked about promised in a specific time frame? That'd be my first question.

"Would have been better." In their opinion, sure.

[JasperStone]

On 7/15/2022 at 10:02 AM, arcane said:

Ok but who do you really know that likes MM’s

I do.

Have a few where I can control every single one.

The rest work as a group.

 

[eldriyth]

2 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

Oh boy, more "devs do what we say or you STINK."

Entitlement is stored in the keyboard.

You use entitled incorrectly as this is something multiple people have wanted. Not just me. The problem with these "community" mmorpgs is there is no community aside from what the dev's version of the game is. We are not talking months here we are talking years with no direction to fix and add-on to the fantasy of masterminds.  Yeah, the recharge reduction was a cool change, but that's all we've gotten. Where are the new pets? Where is cutomizing your pet's looks?  Where is a lot of the stuff that people have wanted like fixes to the mercenary set?  I don't hate the devs so stop putting words in my mouth. I am however disappointed in them. To inhale some hopium here: Page 4 did have a couple of mercenary tweaks due to smashing/lethal being changed into fire/aoe on certain things. Hopefully we see some hot fixes to at least buff the pet's levels.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, eldriyth said:

We are not talking months here we are talking years with no direction to fix and add-on to the fantasy of masterminds.

7 years shut down plus a couple years of volunteers trying to address the plethora of bugs the game still has. Yep, been years alright. Been higher priorities too. And this from a MM player.

 

3 hours ago, eldriyth said:

Where is cutomizing your pet's looks? 

They have said they were looking at that. Odds are, it is not a priority and they have already stated they won't use that other server's version of it.

 

3 hours ago, eldriyth said:

Where is a lot of the stuff that people have wanted like fixes to the mercenary set? 

You must not have read the notes. There are fixes for the mercenary set. Including the powers the pets in the set use. Not just changing damage types.

[lemming]

3 hours ago, eldriyth said:

I don't hate the devs so stop putting words in my mouth. I am however disappointed in them.

 

[eldriyth]

On 7/17/2022 at 11:35 AM, lemming said:

 

I admit this actually made me chuckle.  I don't hate the developers of homecoming. Disappointed in them is nowhere near as bad. Example:  I do despise the idiots in charge of WoW and refunded my DF pre-order epic version due to certain political reasons that I won't explain here. Catastrophically monstrous difference.

[biostem]

On 7/15/2022 at 3:26 AM, eldriyth said:

What do we get instead? Bards. Can the devs actually listen to half of their player base? Everybody I knew that played a MM was excited to see some love in this update and has now lost all hope. We won't be seeing another page until next year so yeah.. fun.

Volunteer?

[Kal5]

8 hours ago, biostem said:

Volunteer?

Sure thing!
I have increased the damage of all Merc summon ranged attacks by 20%
If we could get these in the next build, and start beta testing to make sure everything works that would be awesome.

"Volunteer?" is not a valid excuse and does not address the problem.
 

Mercs have been hugely underpowered for years now. Everyone knows it. We have exacting data.
It's dumb that it has not undergone a simple damage buff, and instead we have waited for over a year for a MM revamp that is not in sight anywhere.

A simple +20% damage buff would solve many of the problems and make the set not painful to play, and not force new players into different concepts and reduce choice.

Years of disappointing new players by telling them to not play Mercs as a first character, because they would hate CoH and struggle if they did.

Homecoming has an overthinking problem.
We don't need things re-engineered.
Just buff outlier weak sets.
Done.


Bonus:Mastermind Pets.Assault.Flamethrower.txt
Power devs forgot Robotics flamethrower cast time during the "Stuff over 4 sec gets looked at" phase for page 3.
I fixed that too, and brought it in line with assault rile flamethrower cast times.
The first buff actually makes Assault bot *weaker* by a huge amount. This is know, and nothing has been done. Again, for years. Bots players have to work to avoid using the first buff on the Assault.
Down from 6.333 sec to 2.333

.Mastermind Pets.Soldier.ASMG Heavy Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Soldier.ASMG Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Medic.SMG Heavy Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Medic.SMG Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Medic.Frag Grenade.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.Slug.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.M30 Grenade.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.LRM Rocket.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.Full Auto.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.Flamethrower.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Commando.Buckshot.txtMastermind Pets.Spec Ops.SCAR Snipe.txtMastermind Pets.Spec Ops.SCAR Heavy Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Spec Ops.SCAR Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Soldier.Assault Rifle Heavy Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Soldier.Assault Rifle Burst.txtMastermind Pets.Soldier.Assault Rifle Auto Fire.txt

Edited July 21, 2022 by Kal5

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Kal5 said:

"Volunteer?" is not a valid excuse and does not address the problem.

It may not address the problem with Mercenaries, but it is a valid excuse. Volunteer as in volunteer team devoting their free time is a good reason. With the stack of improvements and content they have provided? It's impressive what they did. And they have an entire community to appease. And lots of old bugs from Live to fix.

 

18 minutes ago, Kal5 said:

It's dumb that it has not undergone a simple damage buff, and instead we have waited for over a year for a MM revamp that is not in sight anywhere.

I'm confused by this. Did the devs say they were going to work on this and get it done any time soon? (I haven't heard anything like that.)

 

19 minutes ago, Kal5 said:

make the set not painful to play, and not force new players into different concepts and reduce choice.

I don't find Mercenaries painful to play. And I've played every MM primary set. Further, how are new players forced into any specific concepts or have their choices reduced? They have all the same choices as back on Live, and a few more.

 

20 minutes ago, Kal5 said:

Years of disappointing new players by telling them to not play Mercs as a first character, because they would hate CoH and struggle if they did.

I am not aware of any new players being told not play Mercenaries. And Mercenaries as a primary does not struggle any more than any other MM primary set I have tried in any of the content I have tried with them.

 

22 minutes ago, Kal5 said:

Homecoming has an overthinking problem.
We don't need things re-engineered.

It is things being re-engineered that made Knock Down possible with a higher magnitude than .9. It is things being re-engineered that got players the increased difficulty challenge settings on some TFs/SFs that they have been asking for "for years".

 

Further, Mercenaries got looked at and updated in this upcoming Page 4. There is an entry in the patch notes speciifcally about Mercenaries and the changes to their powers that were made. Have you tested these new changes? Do you know if they changed or improved Mercenaries as a power set? Because so far your comments make it seem like you haven't bothered reading the patch notes.

[Kal5]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

It may not address the problem with Mercenaries, but it is a valid excuse.

Well, I just volunteered, and did the work.
 

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I'm confused by this. Did the devs say they were going to work on this and get it done any time soon? (I haven't heard anything like that.)

I didn't say "soon".
But a set can be adjusted before then, and should be if there will be a year+ wait.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I don't find Mercenaries painful to play. And I've played every MM primary set. Further, how are new players forced into any specific concepts or have their choices reduced? They have all the same choices as back on Live, and a few more.

 

Check the published DPS data for both single and AoE damage. Mercs is the lowest for both.
Masterminds can be very frustrating for very new players, they have the highest stat among AT that do not make it to high level per last published server AT stats, and Mercs is the lowest performing set for the Mastermind AT.
All of that is documented.

It is very likely we could lose a player if they play a Mercs as a first character.
 

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Further, Mercenaries got looked at and updated in this upcoming Page 4. There is an entry in the patch notes speciifcally about Mercenaries and the changes to their powers that were made. Have you tested these new changes? Do you know if they changed or improved Mercenaries as a power set? Because so far your comments make it seem like you haven't bothered reading the patch notes.

I read the patch notes. Too much.

"Properly displays assault rifle when shooting" is not a buff.
"Soldiers now have the correct powers assigned and revoked per upgrade" is not a buff.

On your point of the great missions and content, I totally agree, Homecoming has done amazing work.
I am referring to overthink on changing powersets with new mechanics that get pushed back repeatedly, or worked on then unused; when a simple numeric adjustment will do.

 

---

But my point stands:
Mercs could use a +20% damage buff to make them middling and remotely comparable to other sets.
Too much work? I just did the work above.

Disagree?
Ok ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited July 21, 2022 by Kal5

[Rudra]

So the DoT duration being sped up and the different power selections (by virtue of actually getting their correct attacks like whatever ASMG Heavy Burst is) don't create the improvement you want?  You've tested this and can tell us for sure that the pets using different attacks than they do now does not help them?

 

Edit: If not, maybe give it a chance to see what it does? Or since it is still in Beta, go make comments on its feedback request forum? It isn't live yet, so who knows.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add the missing "now". And to correct grammatical error.

[Kal5]

No, they are still by far the outlier lowest damage MM set. Swapping similar powers around does not change that.
Yes tested, hardly any difference.

These were power "fixes" from intended, so a "bug". Not actual power adjustments to change and balance mercs compared to other sets, and I have repeatedly gotten the response that any MM balancing will not be done till other things happen, and now that has likely moved to page 5 at least.
So I highly doubt any further MM changes will be considered - and the set will continue to be unreasonably bad for likely another year instead of getting a simple adjustment.

But good point, I should give it a try mentioning it again on beta anyway, since it was something that was technically touched.
Not much to lose.