Improve Leadership: Assault

[biostem]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:57 PM, BrandX said:

However, past that one power, does one really need any other from the set other than a desire for them?

While not "needed", I do find tactics extremely useful when you don't have any +PER natively in your primary or secondary.  It's also great if you want to lead a team, through tougher content, (particularly when leading a PUG).

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 8/3/2022 at 5:29 PM, biostem said:

I get what you're saying, but the issue is that 15% to *base* damage is not the same as 15% to "final" damage.  When I look at the damage my character is dealing, I'm thinking in terms of what is splashing against the enemy, not the earliest pre-enhancement value.  It'd be like a casino saying they were going to double your money if you won, but were only actually referring to your original bet, and not the final value if there was some 10:1 odds in play or something...

 

All damage buffs be they from fury or buildup or any other source work the same way. It's not misleading, it's functioning as designed and as it always has.

 

Big no vote from me on the topic. There's been too much power creep. We don't need more.

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It's not misleading, it's functioning as designed

I'm not disputing that it doesn't "function as designed", but the 2 pieces of your statement are not mutually exclusive.  Saying that a power grants an X% damage buff does not, for the layman, equate to seeing the final damage number being X% higher.

[Rudra]

Then answer a few questions for me please.

 

1)Why should Assault get to work differently than any other power in the game?

2)What is to stop people from demanding that every damage buff in the game be changed to match Assault if this were to be done?

3)The game is already plenty easy. To the point that players are demanding that the game be made harder. Which resulted in the new difficulty settings that are being proliferated. Why should we make the game easier?

 

Assault grants its full 10-15% damage buff. If the layman does not understand that, then the text of the power can be changed to present how the power works in clearer terms.

[Uun]

Here's a thought in a different direction. Assault has resistance to taunt and placate, but no protection to either. Granted there are very few mobs that taunt, but there are quite a few that placate (CoT, Arachnos, IDF). What about adding placate protection? This would be consistent with Tactics, which provides confuse resistance and protection but only fear resistance.

[Luminara]

37 minutes ago, Uun said:

Here's a thought in a different direction. Assault has resistance to taunt and placate, but no protection to either. Granted there are very few mobs that taunt, but there are quite a few that placate (CoT, Arachnos, IDF). What about adding placate protection? This would be consistent with Tactics, which provides confuse resistance and protection but only fear resistance.

 

Would that...

 

Wait for it.

 

WAIT FOR IT.

 

Spoiler

Placate the people who believe it needs a buff?

 

Yes.  Yes, I did.

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:31 AM, Sovera said:

I remember testing this with a Tanker (which gets a bigger version of Assault). Turning it on, hitting something. Turning it off, hitting something. 4% damage difference.

 

Your test was flawed. Go retest with unslotted brawl and no other damage buffs. Then you'll see Assault functioning exactly as described and exactly as all damage buffs have functioned in this game for almost 20 years.

 

For everyone else confused by the way damage works in this game, all damage buffs are added together and then applied.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Damage

 

[Frozen Burn]

We already become uber in this game.  People already complain that the game is "too easy" so there is no need to buff Assault to make it that much easier for us. 

 

HOWEVER, the Taunt Resistance it provides is broken and does need fixing.  It used to be that if Assault was running, you would not be affected by Black Scorpion's taunt in MLTF - now, you are affected even if multiple Assaults are running.  Fixing this would also provide more usefulness for this feature now that Crey Juggernauts taunt too.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Your test was flawed. Go retest with unslotted brawl and no other damage buffs. Then you'll see Assault functioning exactly as described and exactly as all damage buffs have functioned in this game for almost 20 years.

 

For everyone else confused by the way damage works in this game, all damage buffs are added together and then applied.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Damage

 

 

I dont use Brawl. Most of the time Brawl isn't even slotted. Is your test along the lines of 'Well yes, it's only 4% with a slotted skill, BUT, if you happen to use unslotted skills in your rotation then it's 15%'? Because we are back to technically correct.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Sovera said:

I dont use Brawl. Most of the time Brawl isn't even slotted. Is your test along the lines of 'Well yes, it's only 4% with a slotted skill, BUT, if you happen to use unslotted skills in your rotation then it's 15%'? Because we are back to technically correct.

 

I'll put it another way. Assault is always buffing every attack by exactly the % it states in CoD for each AT. You deciding that it doesn't because you want to mislead others on how damage buffs work in this game is not the game's fault nor is it a rational reason to rework how damage buffs function nor even a rational reason for changing the power description of every damage buff in the game to explain how damage buffs work.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'll put it another way. Assault is always buffing every attack by exactly the % it states in CoD for each AT. You deciding that it doesn't because you want to mislead others on how damage buffs work in this game is not the game's fault nor is it a rational reason to rework how damage buffs function nor even a rational reason for changing the power description of every damage buff in the game to explain how damage buffs work.

 

So I'm wrong because I state how much it buffs an attack? That's pretty convoluted. And you're right because it 'always buffs by 15%' when it does 4%? And I'm doing it because I want to purposefully mislead others?

 

I'll drop this before I say something I can't get back.

[arcane]

Assault seems fine to me. I find myself taking it on many builds for just the self buff, and that’s only 1/8th of its effects!

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

So I'm wrong because I state how much it buffs an attack? That's pretty convoluted. And you're right because it 'always buffs by 15%' when it does 4%? And I'm doing it because I want to purposefully mislead others?

 

I'll drop this before I say something I can't get back.

That’s how every damage buff in the game has worked since forever so it’s just an extremely weird point to make. Do you come here to make the same point about every other damage buff in the game? Doesn’t seem like it.

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Sovera said:

So I'm wrong because I state how much it buffs an attack? That's pretty convoluted. And you're right because it 'always buffs by 15%' when it does 4%? And I'm doing it because I want to purposefully mislead others?

 

I'll drop this before I say something I can't get back.

 

Are you stating that assault on a tank does not provide a 15% damage buff? Yes, you are. And you are wrong. Watch your combat monitor and you'll see it listed quite plainly.

 

I know where you're getting the lessened value from and yes it is absolutely misleading to bring it up in those terms.

 

I have an attack that does 100 damage. I slot enhancements totalling 95% and now that attack does 195 damage. I turn on assault for its 15% and now that attack does 210 damage but that's only 7.14% more damage than the attack was doing with just my enhancements!!! IT'S ALL A LIE!!!!

 

And it gets worse! I just hit buildup for another 80% damage buff and I'm only doing 290 damage! That's only 27.586% more damage than I was doing with enhancements and assault!!!!

 

REWORK EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

Edited August 6, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

That’s how every damage buff in the game has worked since forever so it’s just an extremely weird point to make. Do you come here to make the same point about every other damage buff in the game? Doesn’t seem like it.

 

I'm not even the OP. I don't even use Assault and haven't since realizing how much of a small boost it was. I'm not even in this thread asking for a buff to Assault, lol. I was adding my two cents and said what I said that the buff is not as large as it says in the can but it does affect everyone in the team (possibly league) and that should be a consideration when asking for buffs BUT saying it gives 15% is misleading.

 

At this point the conversation is 'but 15% is huge when multiplied by 8!' and what? I should stick to technical correctness? I would rather stick to factualness unless it is common to use unslotted skills where the 15% comes into play, but since its not then what the heck is the use of that bit of trivia?

 

 

Are any of you wrong? Absolutely not. Damage is additive and the skill gives 15% of it. Does this mislead any player not deeper into the math happening under the hood? Yes, yes it does. This is the sort of logic that allowed Tic Tacs to be presented as sugar free.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

Does this mislead any player not deeper into the math happening under the hood? Yes, yes it does.

 

Does it actually matter? Is it any more misleading than how tohit works? Or how confused folks are about the base incarnate critter tohit buff vs how the softcap works? Or how endurance reduction functions on the backend?

 

Those that want to learn, will. Those that don't, won't. Asking for changes to a power due to one's ignorance of the game isn't a great place from which to start and intentionally feeding that ignorance is kinda mean.

[Akisan]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

Here's a thought in a different direction. Assault has resistance to taunt and placate, but no protection to either. Granted there are very few mobs that taunt, but there are quite a few that placate (CoT, Arachnos, IDF). What about adding placate protection? This would be consistent with Tactics, which provides confuse resistance and protection but only fear resistance.

 

These would be great, or, at least bumping the resistance to 100% (half duration) would be nice.  2/3 duration on Taunt and Placate (current values) is usually more than enough time for a squishy to get roughed up.

[Rudra]

8 hours ago, Uun said:

Here's a thought in a different direction. Assault has resistance to taunt and placate, but no protection to either. Granted there are very few mobs that taunt, but there are quite a few that placate (CoT, Arachnos, IDF). What about adding placate protection? This would be consistent with Tactics, which provides confuse resistance and protection but only fear resistance.

Tactics is a gated power. You need to have either Maneuvers or Assault to get it. Assault should not be compared to Tactics. (Though I am still in favor of converting the resistance to protection....)

[TheZag]

I guess just change the description of assault to 'increases your damage by 15% of its unenhanced value'.  The power stays exactly the same but will be more clear as to what it does (and always did). 

 

[srmalloy]

20 hours ago, biostem said:

I'm not disputing that it doesn't "function as designed", but the 2 pieces of your statement are not mutually exclusive.  Saying that a power grants an X% damage buff does not, for the layman, equate to seeing the final damage number being X% higher.

That you, or T. C. Mits, do not understand the mechanics of damage buffs as they have existed for the duration of the game does not mean that they are wrong, broken, and must be changed immediately to fit how you believe they should work.

 

(for those who don't recognize the reference, 'T. C. Mits' is a really old usage, an acronym for 'The Celebrated Man in the Street')

[Burk]

Technically the Description of Assault doesn't say anything about "15%". It says "While this power is active, you and your nearby teammates deal more damage and are resistant to Taunt and Placate". In the original version of CoH, that was all the information we were given. Now we have the Detailed Info, but that information is presented in such a way that you need to have some understanding of how stuff works. All powers that buff damage have their damage bonus listed the same way in the Detailed Info and you are expected to understand that they add together instead of multiply.