Prismatic Aether and locked costume items

[Songseven]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

 

Or you know, go by live and let live? Let others enjoy what they like doing too? That's an option too?

 

 

you are implying that i do not?

[Frostbiter]

I could download and run the client and server software but I'd be missing out on the things added here, which has all been pretty damn good so far. Even if I don't always see things exactly the way the devs do. Plus the whole world would be empty. It's just be me and not playing in an empty world is a large reason why people like MMOs, even if they mostly solo in them.

[Ironblade]

12 hours ago, Neiska said:

Submission - a few special cosmetic only rewards that can only be gained by other means.

 

Costume 1 - only obtainable by buying with raw INF. 1 billion. The costume? A top hat, cane, and monocle, like the monopoly guy.

He has a name, you know.  FYI, it's Milburn Pennybags.  (I'm not joking.)

[Black Zot]

11 hours ago, Krimson said:

It's costumes. Not like I'm losing out on something with value. 

 

... yet.  With the currency mechanics for aether implemented, it's only a matter of time before something of value gets locked behind them.

[Excraft]

 

18 hours ago, El D said:

'Does not require a team' does not mean 'not designed around being played by a team'

 

Of course it does.  99.99% of the story content in the game is designed for solo play.  It's just like the comics - heroes had their own titles and teamed up for bigger threats in team up titles.  MMOs don't mean "have to team" or even "expected to team" for much of the content.  It just means you're in a persistent virtual environment with other players.  There's content specifically made to require teams.  The rest can be done solo.  Hell, even WoW and LoTRO don't require a team to do a lot of stuff.  You only need them if you want to raid. 

 

18 hours ago, El D said:

especially so in the case of the primary progression path and vast majority of end game content, which outright requires a team or a league. Aether, being an extension of said end game content, is going to run off of those end game requirements. IE 'to progress in the most ideal fashion, you will need to team up.' That players can choose to solo rather than team for most of the game's content doesn't mean that teaming was never the focus on how the game's content was expected to be played or how it should be played for best progression, and at a certain point as difficulty ramps up (such as iTrials and Hard Mode) the sheer scaling numbers and mechanics will require teaming for success to even be possible.

 

It's a 'massively multiplayer' game, not a 'massively lone wolf with option of teaming up' game. Teaming has always been the default, expected playstyle, with allowances made for solo progression for players that choose not to engage with the game that way. That doesn't mean that they think soloing is bad or wrong, but that it's not the primary way they want the content to be run (which is to be expected for an MMO).

 

Nonsense.  A player can solo from 1 to 50+ without ever joining or needing a team and do just fine on their own.  Yes, iTrials, TFs/SFs are specifically designed for teams.  The majority of the game isn't.  Again, you're misunderstanding or purposefully misrepresenting what the definition of MMO is to fit your warped narrative. 

[El D]

11 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

 

Of course it does.  99.99% of the story content in the game is designed for solo play.  It's just like the comics - heroes had their own titles and teamed up for bigger threats in team up titles.  MMOs don't mean "have to team" or even "expected to team" for much of the content.  It just means you're in a persistent virtual environment with other players.  There's content specifically made to require teams.  The rest can be done solo.  Hell, even WoW and LoTRO don't require a team to do a lot of stuff.  You only need them if you want to raid. 

 

 

Nonsense.  A player can solo from 1 to 50+ without ever joining or needing a team and do just fine on their own.  Yes, iTrials, TFs/SFs are specifically designed for teams.  The majority of the game isn't.  Again, you're misunderstanding or purposefully misrepresenting what the definition of MMO is to fit your warped narrative. 

 

You're right. CoH is not a 'teaming required' game outside of a few select bits of content. If you go back and read my posts, you'll notice that I never said teaming was required outside of those specific bits of content. I emphasized that multiple times. It is, however, a game mechanically designed around teaming, which is a completely different concept.

 

To provide another example (and one actually based around the specifics of the game we're actively discussing), CoH being designed around teaming is the entire basis of the archetype system. That's why Tankers have the innate survivability to herd but not deal high damage or mezz, why Controllers/Defenders can mass mezz/debuff mobs and mass buff other players but lack survivability and damage, and why Scrappers/Blasters deal high damage and survive well but lack team buffs/mezz. They weren't given those specific differences in powerset functions on a whim. Those differences directly enforce the roles each archetype is designed to play on teams and were done specifically to bridge the gaps that the other archetypes had in functionality.

 

Those deliberate 'this is how this archetype plays on a team' design decisions are also what directly informs how well each archetype can inherently solo. That's why Scrappers, for example, have a much easier time soloing content than Defenders or Controllers. The role they were designed to perform on a team inherently alters how well they perform when not playing with one (and how much build work and IO investment is required to break them free of those innate mechanical limitations). The Redside archetypes were deliberately designed to more readily adapt to solo play, but how they perform while soloing is still determined by the roles they were meant to fulfil on teams. A Brute is going to have a much easier time out of the gate than a Corruptor, because a Brute gets the full function of both their powersets on a team or while soloing. Meanwhile, a Corruptor could still get benefits from their secondary while soloing, but the amount of benefit depends on what secondary they picked. Let's hope they didn't pick any of the secondaries with multiple powers designed to only be usable on teammates. After all, it's not like they're a Mastermind, where their primary is built around summoning AI-controlled allies, so their buffing secondary always has something to do.

 

... Nah. Soloing on a character when almost half of their powerset options are designed for buffing allies? Without pets or anything? That'd be silly. Even sillier would be making multiple powersets built primarily around buffing allies and putting them on multiple archetypes in a game not designed around teaming up and having allies.

Edited September 8, 2022 by El D

[PFlux]

Actually, everything going with this "page" has done nothing but frustrate me.  The drop percentage of this new currency on solo missions is ridicules.  The new content general missions being locked at +4 is ridicules, getting 1 shot for over 1500 damage when you have over 50% resistance to the damage type is ridicules.  So I've stopped playing it.  I get enough frustration in real life that I don't need it from my video games.

[Ironblade]

7 hours ago, PFlux said:

The new content general missions being locked at +4 is ridicules, getting 1 shot for over 1500 damage when you have over 50% resistance to the damage type is ridicules.

No idea what you're talking about there.  Nothing is locked at +4 unless you're talking about a 4-star Imperious or Aeon - and that is a 100% optional setting.

[Seed22]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:04 PM, Songseven said:

 

 

you are implying that i do not?

 

On 9/6/2022 at 7:02 PM, Neiska said:

why not just download the client and set it up locally, then do as you wish.

This doesn't look good if that's your version of "live and let live".

 

Not like you could even if you wanted to, break into their house and FORCE em to play in a team sure, but this doesn't look like "live or let live".

Edited September 9, 2022 by Seed22

[arcane]

On alternating weekends I lead a roving gang of bandits that does, in fact, break into homes and force people to do team content at gunpoint. Don’t rule it out.

[InvaderStych]

12 hours ago, Ironblade said:

No idea what you're talking about there.  Nothing is locked at +4 unless you're talking about a 4-star Imperious or Aeon - and that is a 100% optional setting.

 

It was a thing, quite briefly, in beta.  It was rolled back promptly.  There was talk of a +2 minimum, but I don't think that became a thing.  Definitely no longer +4 though, as running +3 for even level groups with iShifts in play works just fine as of this morning.

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

 

This doesn't look good if that's your version of "live and let live".

 

Not like you could even if you wanted to, break into their house and FORCE em to play in a team sure, but this doesn't look like "live or let live".

 

If you are going to quote someone, quote them correctly. I never said that as you suggest. Someone else said that, and I responded to it.

 

Here is a snip of what I actually said.

 

 

I'm not the one telling people to go get their own client, thank you. I hope this was a mis-quote on your part, more than an attempt to suggest I said something that I did not.

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

On alternating weekends I lead a roving gang of bandits that does, in fact, break into homes and force people to do team content at gunpoint. Don’t rule it out.

And on the other weekends, you work at a soup kitchen so it all balances out, right?

 

 

3 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

It was a thing, quite briefly, in beta.  It was rolled back promptly.  There was talk of a +2 minimum, but I don't think that became a thing.  Definitely no longer +4 though, as running +3 for even level groups with iShifts in play works just fine as of this morning.

Ah.  Currently, difficulty setting ramps up with the star rating.  So, 1-star is +1 level (or higher, if you want) and 2-star is +2 (again, higher if you choose).

[InvaderStych]

48 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

Ah.  Currently, difficulty setting ramps up with the star rating.  So, 1-star is +1 level (or higher, if you want) and 2-star is +2 (again, higher if you choose).

 

Correct for HM ITF and ASF.

 

Sister Valeria (and her unlockable/repeatable counterpart) doesn't have ⭐settings, it is just a post-50/Incarnate arc like the arcs in DA.  I assume that's what the other player was complaining about with the description of "new content general missions."

 

🍻

[battlewraith]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

On alternating weekends I lead a roving gang of bandits that does, in fact, break into homes and force people to do team content at gunpoint. Don’t rule it out.

Doesn't sound likely. He'd knock on the door, get yelled at, and then start wildly waving his fingers in the air---frantically looking for the real life ignore button.

[Coyotedancer]

On 9/9/2022 at 1:33 PM, InvaderStych said:

 

Correct for HM ITF and ASF.

 

Sister Valeria (and her unlockable/repeatable counterpart) doesn't have ⭐settings, it is just a post-50/Incarnate arc like the arcs in DA.  I assume that's what the other player was complaining about with the description of "new content general missions."

 

🍻

 

Most likely,

 

In beta, the repeatables were level-locked at +4 until some of us who were testing them pointed out that not everyone likely to run the things would have their full set of iToys and level additions,

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[ForeverLaxx]

5 hours ago, Ironblade said:

And on the other weekends, you work at a soup kitchen so it all balances out, right?

Well of course. The concept of "carbon offsets" work just as well for crimes, right?

[GM Impervium]

Just hid some nonsense arguing. Stay on topic, and make your points clearly, folks.

[Ukase]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:59 PM, Songseven said:

why not just download the client and set it up locally, then do as you wish...

That's a lot easier said than done. 
If there were an executable I could download, and fire it up as easily as HC CoH, I certainly would. Not saying I wouldn't play here, but I'd certainly do that. 

I can't imagine the size of such a file. And, I'm pretty sure no such file exists, but a collection of files. Requiring perhaps a dedicated machine. I've honestly no idea, but I know with certainty it's not that simple. 

[tidge]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:47 AM, arcane said:

On alternating weekends I lead a roving gang of bandits that does, in fact, break into homes and force people to do team content at gunpoint. Don’t rule it out.

[Songseven]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

That's a lot easier said than done. 
If there were an executable I could download, and fire it up as easily as HC CoH, I certainly would. Not saying I wouldn't play here, but I'd certainly do that. 

I can't imagine the size of such a file. And, I'm pretty sure no such file exists, but a collection of files. Requiring perhaps a dedicated machine. I've honestly no idea, but I know with certainty it's not that simple. 

 

i bet..

[brw316]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

That's a lot easier said than done. 
If there were an executable I could download, and fire it up as easily as HC CoH, I certainly would. Not saying I wouldn't play here, but I'd certainly do that. 

I can't imagine the size of such a file. And, I'm pretty sure no such file exists, but a collection of files. Requiring perhaps a dedicated machine. I've honestly no idea, but I know with certainty it's not that simple. 

https://wiki.ourodev.com/view/Volume_2_VMs_%26_Self_Installer

 

This has been around for about 2.5 years. It's an 8GB download that installs and sets up necessary databases with the click of a button once extracted. You can play it perfectly fine with most any machine released in the last 5 years. And, if you want to make changes, there's an entire community dedicated to helping you out.

[Excraft]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:23 PM, El D said:

You're right. CoH is not a 'teaming required' game outside of a few select bits of content. If you go back and read my posts, you'll notice that I never said teaming was required outside of those specific bits of content. I emphasized that multiple times. It is, however, a game mechanically designed around teaming, which is a completely different concept.

 

You're not even seeing how you're contradicting yourself here.

[El D]

On 9/10/2022 at 10:54 PM, Excraft said:

 

You're not even seeing how you're contradicting yourself here.

 

That's an incredibly easy stance to take when you ignore the literal mechanics of the game. If only I'd included any of those in my post. Shame all I wrote were those first five sentences.

 

To shift focus back on-topic to the point of this thread, the logic of 'CoH is a game with content that can be soloed, therefore it was primarily intended to be soloed' doesn't even apply to Prismatic Aether. Let's try anyway, though. Teaming up is optional, so that means any rewards earned by teaming are done so via 'the optional path.' Even when the game forces you to team for certain content/drops, that's still the optional path - because after all, you don't have to team to get them. This means the new End Game currency's intended method of being gained, the one that earns them from solo play, is... buying them from the auction house. Can't even pin that on the HC devs either, as the Summer Blockbuster IOs follow the exact same set up. They only drop via content that requires teaming, but since players don't have to team to get them obviously that's still the optional route and the intended way is to spend in-game money. Does this mean soloing is technically pay to win?

 

Stepping aside from that (and back to the central point of this thread), I can understand why folks have an issue with the introduction of a new currency - starting from nothing and having to build up a new amount of something, especially from such intense content, can easily be frustrating. However, the point was to put everyone on the same starting line. This way nobody could instantly get a massive stockpile of the new shiny, spend them on all the bells and whistles, play with them for a week before getting bored, and then gripe about how the game has no new incentives to offer them for playing. Players who have been playing a long time and have fully kitted-out characters with expensive builds absolutely have an advantage when it comes to gaining Prismatic Aether, but that's a deliberately designed advantage given the placement of the currency. It's an extra to give folks more of a reason to play characters who, as far as prior content/badges/builds go, were otherwise finished. Of course, players who have hoarded mountains of influence also have an advantage to earning Prismatic Aether, but that's a deliberate design decision too. If a player has the influence to shell out for a ton of the new salvage, they are free to spend it that way at the cost of not buying something else with said influence. Which is not insubstantial, given that paying for a significant amount of Prismatic Aether can cost as much if not more a full End Game build at their current market price (20 mil.). At the core of it though, Prismatic Aether was designed to reward prior player investment - in either time, money, or both - and give an extra reason to continue playing at 50+. Whether or not that reason is sufficient, no matter how a player wishes to attain them, is up to individual determination.

 

Also, in-regards to the 'locked costumes' thing, all of these NPC costumes were completely locked beforehand. None of them were available to be earned at all, let alone as permanent options, and the vast majority of them didn't even exist as options. For some of the hologram costumes, they can still be gained as temp. powers from the Halloween Vendors if you're willing to buy Halloween salvage every two weeks (which, for some folks, might absolutely be worth it). That said, I think the 'slippery slope, this bodes poorly' point of view is overstating things. These are 'NPC model replacement' toggles gained solely from gameplay as an end game expansion of another, pre-existing 'also earned via gameplay only' system. It's not like the devs resurrected the Paragon Market and are selling actual Costume Creator options for real money (or even fake in-game money). Besides, none of these were ever going to be default options for players anyway (as the only way for many of them to even be used is as a whole model replacement, since they don't exist as individual pieces), and the vast majority of them are relatively easy to earn once someone has a fifty or two under their belt. Which, given how their specific currency up as an end game loot drop, I'd say is fully intended too.

 

I do think the Deluxe Tier could stand to be lowered cost-wise (as could the Accolade, or at least have every Aether spent on a costume count toward reducing its overall cost for that specific character) but time and data will tell how many players attained those options. Who knows, maybe the Baby New Year missions will offer an earnable discount coupon for the Mini-Mode. That'd actually be an interesting addition to the system. Doing content relevant to the hologram costumes' specific enemy group offering discount drops toward earning their costumes. It'd allow some minor benefit outside of the WST/Hard Mode while still incentivizing folks to run them for actual progression (since the discount is useless without the Prismatic Aether).

Edited September 12, 2022 by El D

[Zhym]

On 9/2/2022 at 3:29 PM, Ukase said:

Honestly, I would give 20 Billion to you, if I could afford to give 20 Billion to everyone that would chime in and want the same.

Thanks, but I wouldn't know what to do with it (other than buy Aether to get mini mode, of course).  And I mean that literally: where do people with that kind of scratch even keep it?  Mail?  Alts that are nothing but inf mules?  Market bids for items that no longer exist?