Focused Feedback: Fiery Aura Revamp

[Sovera]

9 minutes ago, tabbycat1 said:

Is this where i voice my displeasure with the changes, specifically the cast time increase to burn?

 

Yes, backed by numbers preferably.

[Meknomancer]

 You can ignite the ground beneath you, freeing yourself from Immobilization effects. What happens to fire armours immob portion which i'm assuming was the original intention of the power? Will we be waiting 45 seconds to free ourselves from a web nade?

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, Meknomancer said:

 You can ignite the ground beneath you, freeing yourself from Immobilization effects. What happens to fire armours immob portion which i'm assuming was the original intention of the power? Will we be waiting 45 seconds to free ourselves from a web nade?

 

 No? The recharge has been reverted.

[Meknomancer]

Yup i was chatting in game and just trying to make a point. Just suggesting that the only form of immob prot on an armr set be changed so drastically seems ridiculous.

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, Meknomancer said:

Yup i was chatting in game and just trying to make a point. Just suggesting that the only form of immob prot on an armr set be changed so drastically seems ridiculous.

 

Yeah, but without putting too much emphasis into it it's also a point made in bad faith. This mythical scenario implies the build has zero recharge slotted (it's Burn, it's an AoE, people will want it slotted for recharge), no global recharge, no Hasten, and the immobilize protection lasts 1:40 minutes anyway so even in that scenario Burn would be back before the immobilization protection had worn off.

[Meknomancer]

Aw why bring math into it. Now i can't argue.

[BrandX]

2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Yeah, but without putting too much emphasis into it it's also a point made in bad faith. This mythical scenario implies the build has zero recharge slotted (it's Burn, it's an AoE, people will want it slotted for recharge), no global recharge, no Hasten, and the immobilize protection lasts 1:40 minutes anyway so even in that scenario Burn would be back before the immobilization protection had worn off.

 

Is it 1:40?  I thought it was 1:20 (2 minutes) myself.  And lets be honest, how many Fire Tankers, don't take Combat Jumping?  I have it on my Fire/Axe Tanker for no other reason to slot Kismet, LotG and the two +Resist IOs.  My Tanker has Weave, but that's one slotted at level 50 with a LotG.  She has one +3% Defense IO, but that's more a matter of 4 slotted Gladiator's Armor (KB Resist being one of the set bonuses and grabbing some Psi/Tox Resist).  Really, I just went with the idea of Max Resists and Recharge that Healing Flames.

 

Have to say, if they're going to take down the damage tho, I wish they'd do a bit more on survival than 100% Regen that can't be enhanced (not sure if I'd have the slots to enhance tho).  Does it feel like a good trade off?  I wouldn't be able to tell myself.

[Sovera]

4 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Is it 1:40?  I thought it was 1:20 (2 minutes) myself.  And lets be honest, how many Fire Tankers, don't take Combat Jumping?  I have it on my Fire/Axe Tanker for no other reason to slot Kismet, LotG and the two +Resist IOs.  My Tanker has Weave, but that's one slotted at level 50 with a LotG.  She has one +3% Defense IO, but that's more a matter of 4 slotted Gladiator's Armor (KB Resist being one of the set bonuses and grabbing some Psi/Tox Resist).  Really, I just went with the idea of Max Resists and Recharge that Healing Flames.

 

Have to say, if they're going to take down the damage tho, I wish they'd do a bit more on survival than 100% Regen that can't be enhanced (not sure if I'd have the slots to enhance tho).  Does it feel like a good trade off?  I wouldn't be able to tell myself.

 

I just peeked at the detailed info instead of checking City of Data, but

 

 

 

And yeah, there are some bits and bobs that add both QoL and a bit more survival (max HP from new Consume marry well with more regen from Temp Protection), but it's still not a bastion of survival.

 

As I tested above Burn still adds decent AoE and goes well with poor/late AoE sets, and Fiery Embrace adds a nice chunk of ST damage. But the set has degraded from 'squishy but the offense based armor'. At this point both Stone Armor or Bio will add more ST and Rad Armor adds more AoE (but Fire Armor still bridges the gap by doing both).

 

 

Beta testing isn't over though so let us wait for the next round (do wish we had a bit of communication going but I can understand the devs growing jaded and cynical when they try).

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

I just peeked at the detailed info instead of checking City of Data, but

 

 

 

And yeah, there are some bits and bobs that add both QoL and a bit more survival (max HP from new Consume marry well with more regen from Temp Protection), but it's still not a bastion of survival.

 

As I tested above Burn still adds decent AoE and goes well with poor/late AoE sets, and Fiery Embrace adds a nice chunk of ST damage. But the set has degraded from 'squishy but the offense based armor'. At this point both Stone Armor or Bio will add more ST and Rad Armor adds more AoE (but Fire Armor still bridges the gap by doing both).

 

 

Beta testing isn't over though so let us wait for the next round (do wish we had a bit of communication going but I can understand the devs growing jaded and cynical when they try).

 

Copying my Fire/Axe over now (get to test both) but I'll have to be honest, I didn't build my Fire/Axe Tanker for optimizing her ST DPS (like I usually do) and built her to see if she could Tank with Max Resists and lots of recharge 😛  So, I'd like my Burn to help my ST. 🙂

Edited October 7, 2022 by BrandX

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Copying my Fire/Axe over now (get to test both) but I'll have to be honest, I didn't build my Fire/Axe Tanker for optimizing her ST DPS (like I usually do) and build her to see if she could Tank with Max Resists and lots of recharge 😛  So, I'd like my Burn to help my ST. 🙂

 

Preach it. Adding Burn to the rotation can many times help to sub a weaker attack or even fix rotations that have gaps such as EM. I'm not condoning it, but I do understand the desire for an AoE to remain for AoE uses.

 

So far we have an obvious knob to increase ST damage so we will have to wait and see what the devs want to try. At worst they just might decide it's fine as is but that's speculation and pessimism rolled into one.

[BrandX]

Phoenix Rising.  I'll be honest, never made a fire armor character without it.  I love the animation 🙂  Now, this may be the bit of added survival, in so much if things start to go south, I can trigger it.  Always thought rez's having high recharge wasn't the best idea, even if FA's can nuke, but even now, would it be that bad to lower this recharge down to 180 seconds from it's 300 seconds?  240 seconds?

 

Burn...on my Tanker...I can't comment on.  Didn't test it on my Ice/Fire Brute.

 

Consume...I like the change.  My Fire/Axe tank is weak on HP and Consume as currently slotted, puts my Tanker to Scrapper caps 😛  If I'm willing to sacrifice the current slotting which is for the recharge bonus and Energy/Negative Resist, I may be willing to go Accurate Healing Set for more HP.  However, we don't get that option.  If the power does healing effects and takes healing sets and has an accuracy component, please allow us to use Accurate Healing Sets.

 

Temperature Protection...as I always say...needs more Cold Resist 😛  Other than that, regen gives more survival for my Fire Armor, so should help me stay standing a little longer while I wait for HF to recharge.  So all good there.

 

Healing Flames...slightly faster animation allows me to go to other ways of staying standing.  So, nice.

[BrandX]

I believe it was mentioned, but some effect is staying persistent and it's kinda annoying.

[Sovera]

Testing the new new changes. Same Fire Armor/Martial Arts character:

 

 

Pylon, Burn that spawns a second burn patch when FE is up, Fiery Embrace used:

 

5:26

5:45

 

 

Times on live: 4 minutes

 

4:56

4:37

4:55

4:34

 

 

Trapdoor test:

 

5:43

5:51

 

Times on live: 6 minutes.

 

 

 

As mentioned in the previous test Burn is not particularly affecting ST damage if this was the intent. Maybe animation shaving on top of this will help since each of the changes separate removes about 30 seconds from the test.

 

Perhaps before adding it to the PTS someone on the private test server could test adding 10/15 seconds to FE and see the results? Heck, I'll do it if someone points me where to sign up.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sovera

[BrandX]

Ran my Ice/Fire/Arctic Brute (I mean, may not be the best farming combo, but I gotta have my concept :p) through a fire farm map.

 

Can't say how she'd do on a normal content, which I have taken her out in, I just never worried about how she did there.  Does pretty much have capped S/L/F Resists (not built for defense...much like my Tanker).  Not sure why people worried on the Fire Farm Map, unless it's just a matter of clear times?

 

Guessing since the +HP happens whether you hit anything or not, is why no Accurate Healing sets are allowed 😞

 

So the +100% Regen and +HP, I'm sure will help the survival, even if I don't know by how much for regular content (though I'm sure it's not by much), and I'm not sure of any trade off, but from what I'm reading, it's just the ST DPS that suffers from burn, not the AOE.  

[Zect]

Extremely pleased with the improvements to Burn. Specifically, fixing the well-known proc activation bug that gave this power far more dps than it should ever have. Bravo!

[Super Atom]

reverted recharge is good

 

 

revert rage 2022

[Sanguinesun]

6 hours ago, Zect said:

Extremely pleased with the improvements to Burn. Specifically, fixing the well-known proc activation bug that gave this power far more dps than it should ever have. Bravo!

Cant call something a bug when it was something that devs knew about and accepted for many years since the days of it running on live means that's more or less what you call intended.  Spinning it(and other changes) otherwise like a certain segment of people in various threads are trying to do doesn't change that.  

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sanguinesun

[Sovera]

I became a bit suspicious of results and to collect more data I went back to live to test the Fire/MA Tanker on a pylon.

 

On live:

 

4:56

4:37

4:55

4:34

 

 

Brainstorm test with new Burn that spawns a second patch during FE's duration:

 

5:26

5:45

 

 

I distinctly remembered 4 minutes and even went back to check on my Tanker thread which confirmed it. That's when I realized what had happened: the 4 minutes was on early builds that used Assault which I've stopped using since.

 

So I'll go back and edit my posts. The damage loss still exists though, but it is from 4:36/4:56 to 5:26/5:45 minutes instead.

 

 

Pretty darn close despite the doom and gloom posts.

[Outrider_01]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:37 PM, The Curator said:

Temperature Protection

• This power now grants Mag 1 Knock protection in PvE. (This is strong enough to prevent most knockdowns and some weak knockback).
• This power now grants unenhanceable +regeneration.

can we get more resist on this, mostly for cold but some others like energy, negative, and S/L.  Fire resist is rare in a pure form and its usually a secondary effect on split damage types.

 

I think +5-7.5% resist spread would be a decent buff to Temp Protections, fire is a glass cannon in resists if its not fire type.

[Troo]

The cast time was unexpected but a nice surprise. For active players, cast time reduction is a great small boost to get to a heal or other in order to stay upright.

Question: Is there a recharge number that would work if 25s was too quick in order to have a slightly lower activation?

 

45s recharge was a lot for Burn. It could work maybe at 30s if that achieves the design goal.

 

Burn (first version of change)

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Radius reverted back to 8ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Cast time reverted back to 2.03s.
• Recharge reverted back to 25s.
• Fixed a bug where the power was not inheriting damage buffs.

 

Burn (latest revision)

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Up-Front damage radius increased to 15ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Cast time lowered from 2.03s to 1.47s
• Recharge increased from 25s to 45s

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Troo

[DarknessEternal]

!

Edited October 10, 2022 by DarknessEternal

[QuiJon]

On 10/5/2022 at 9:39 AM, Sovera said:

 

It's still 50% of the damage on a Tank, but preach on because I'm with you. I would understand the proc nerfing since it was adding a lot of power, but then give back some of it. Instead we get double nerf.

 

And, okay, sure, at least I got the same numbers for mission clearing (once more reports come in we can see how that actually works out on a bigger spread) but that ST nerf made playing a Tanker unpalatable to me.

Ok look, i am sorry i dont have a ton of time to play right now much less do the beta thing. But you are talking in generals which makes no sense to me. 50 percent of damage, sounds the same, but not if the power was doing a total of 300 points of damage and the 50 percent was 150 points and the power is now doing 250 points of damage total and is now doing 125 as 50 percent. 

 

The real numbers would be nice. Like hit a farm, pop no boosts for damage then your hancers and such, and get the full fury damage the power currently does in upfront and ticks, and then do the same on test. If the power is doing the same damage on live and on test, then isnt it still considered a nerf since it will be clickable almost half as often to do that damage?

[BrandX]

3 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Ok look, i am sorry i dont have a ton of time to play right now much less do the beta thing. But you are talking in generals which makes no sense to me. 50 percent of damage, sounds the same, but not if the power was doing a total of 300 points of damage and the 50 percent was 150 points and the power is now doing 250 points of damage total and is now doing 125 as 50 percent. 

 

The real numbers would be nice. Like hit a farm, pop no boosts for damage then your hancers and such, and get the full fury damage the power currently does in upfront and ticks, and then do the same on test. If the power is doing the same damage on live and on test, then isnt it still considered a nerf since it will be clickable almost half as often to do that damage?

 

Clickable almost half as often?  Didn't they revert Burn's recharge back to what it was?

[Sovera]

18 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Ok look, i am sorry i dont have a ton of time to play right now much less do the beta thing. But you are talking in generals which makes no sense to me. 50 percent of damage, sounds the same, but not if the power was doing a total of 300 points of damage and the 50 percent was 150 points and the power is now doing 250 points of damage total and is now doing 125 as 50 percent. 

 

The real numbers would be nice. Like hit a farm, pop no boosts for damage then your hancers and such, and get the full fury damage the power currently does in upfront and ticks, and then do the same on test. If the power is doing the same damage on live and on test, then isnt it still considered a nerf since it will be clickable almost half as often to do that damage?

 

I'm actually pretty specific in numbers and I got all of them posted in this thread. Start by the newest since it's the latest. It's about three posts above yours. It has pylon tests. The one before that has pylons and Trapdoor tests.

 

Also yes, you've missed the new patch notes:

 

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Radius reverted back to 8ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Cast time reverted back to 2.03s.
• Recharge reverted back to 25s.
• Fixed a bug where the power was not inheriting damage buffs.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sovera

[QuiJon]

58 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

I'm actually pretty specific in numbers and I got all of them posted in this thread. Start by the newest since it's the latest. It's about three posts above yours. It has pylon tests. The one before that has pylons and Trapdoor tests.

 

Also yes, you've missed the new patch notes:

 

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Radius reverted back to 8ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Cast time reverted back to 2.03s.
• Recharge reverted back to 25s.
• Fixed a bug where the power was not inheriting damage buffs.

Yes I missed the new notes. As for your tests I guess I just think differently. The time it takes you to defeat a pylon I get seem slower. I would like to know why. I was talking more about damage numbers. Like how much damage is as actually inflicted per target hit by burn now vs under the current patch. Cause something must have went down if it takes longer. So I am assuming th heir is a damage nerf because it hits one more target now?