Focused Feedback: Fiery Aura Revamp

[The Curator]

Fiery Aura

Rise of the Phoenix (now Phoenix Rising)

• Renamed Phoenix Rising.
• This power can now be used when alive.
• The effects of this power (damage, healing, endurance) will be stronger the closer the user is to death.
• The player power can't be used if the player has more than 75% health.
• The power will only make the player invulnerable and grant XP protection if the power is used after death.
• Damage increased when used while dead, relative to Live.

Burn

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Up-Front damage radius increased to 15ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Cast time lowered from 2.03s to 1.47s
• Recharge increased from 25s to 45s

Consume

• Power now grants a small Max HP buff even if no targets are available or hit.
• Power no longer needs a target to grant End Drain protection. (+End still requires targets)
• Power no longer claims it is auto-hit.
• This power now takes Healing sets and enhancements.

Temperature Protection

• This power now grants Mag 1 Knock protection in PvE. (This is strong enough to prevent most knockdowns and some weak knockback).
• This power now grants unenhanceable +regeneration.

Healing Flames

• Cast Time lowered from 1.5 seconds to 0.73 seconds.

[Vanden]

I really, really think Consume should not need a ToHit check on the endurance recovery aspect of it. All the other tricks it does are nice, true; but what I, and probably many other players, have always looked to Consume for is endurance management. With its recharge being double or triple every other endurance management powers like it in armor sets, and not needing ToHit checks to recover endurance, it's really very bad at that. With the new +HP buff it gives, you definitely want to slot it for healing, but it needs to cram a whole lot of enhancement into just 6 slots. Recharge, Accuracy, End Mod, and now, Healing. Being able to drop accuracy from that list would help a great deal. The damage it does has always been an albatross around this powers's usability; it's definitely not worth the tradeoff in recharge and accuracy it imposes on the rest of the power. Please, just make the endurance effects autohit and make only the damage need an accuracy check, like what was done with sleep powers.

 

Other than that, it would be extremely appreciated if the knockback protection in Temperature Protection went up to 4 points. That would allow me to drop a knockback IO or set bonus from my build; I always have to build with 3 of those in a Fiery Aura build, because otherwise some bosses with powers like Levitate, Force Bolt, and Singularity are gonna make you hate life. Very big weakness for a melee armor set with no defense.

[Ratch_]

Burn

• This power should no longer summon multiple burn patches.
• This power should now hit 5 enemies instead of 4.
• Up-Front damage radius increased to 15ft.
• Procs should no longer trigger multiple times per target when using this power.
• Burn Flames should now inherit the power Accuracy enhancements.
• Burn Flames now inherit AT classes, caps, and modifiers.
• Burn cast time lowered from 2.03s to 1.47s

Burn also has a recharge change, can this please be included in the patch notes for transparency.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Ratch_

[LQT]

42 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I really, really think Consume should not need a ToHit check on the endurance recovery aspect of it. All the other tricks it does are nice, true; but what I, and probably many other players, have always looked to Consume for is endurance management

This. Back on live I purposefully used to take Mu Mastery on my Fire/Kin Corr because when nuke crashes were still a thing an auto hit end+ pbaoe was one of the most useful things you could use to get back to fighting ASAP. While I do have Consume on several Fire toons it's pretty much always slotted for getting End back or maybe as a mule. The damage part barely comes into things even on my Fire3 Tank which will admittedly love these changes but still uses it for End recovery more than even more aoe output.

[Sovera]

I'll test before saying anything, but Burn carried Fire Armor and if it's not good enough the small bumps FA got won't make the set appetizing for anything other than theme. But, testing first before knee jerking.

 

I'll report on my findings.

[VV]

So, fire melee and fire armor are both getting power bumps. I mean, they are already so powerful, this is mindboggling. I mean, thank you!

[TygerDarkstorm]

25 minutes ago, VV said:

So, fire melee and fire armor are both getting power bumps. I mean, they are already so powerful, this is mindboggling. I mean, thank you!

Fire Melee was actually pretty bottom of the barrel; despite being a fire power, it didn't have the oomph that things like Fire Blast do. 

[Arcadio]

The radiating FX from phoenix rising is persisting indefinitely both when used alive and dead.

[Marbing]

Just now, Arcadio said:

The radiating FX from phoenix rising is persisting indefinitely both when used alive and dead.

Actually, looks kinda awesome.... 😛 but yes I see what you mean

 

[Arcadio]

Also, the big burn AoE feels amazing ❤️ 

[Arcadio]

10 minutes ago, Marbing said:

Actually, looks kinda awesome.... 😛 but yes I see what you mean

 

Even cooler they stack 😛

[Neogumbercules]

Regarding Burn,

 

Of course the knee jerk reaction to that recharge change is strong, I think one kinda has to really consider the burn flames inheriting AT mods, Caps, and modifiers, as well as a cast time increase and increased radius as pretty big buff especially for scrappers who aren't holding aggro and in non-farm situations where mods are more spread out.

 

However I would love to take this opportunity to request a create a taunt aura IO (perhaps by modifying an existing Resistance set IO) that can be slotted by the likes of Dark Armor or Firey Aura Scrappers since their sets rely on enemies being close to be most effective.

[Wravis]

Why change the recharge on burn so harshly?

[Sovera]

Fire Armor/Martial Arts character used.

 

Some pylon tests, no incarnate clickies used, no -res procs:

 

5:27 with Burn used.

5:12 with Burn used.

5:36 without Burn used.

6:06 without Burn.

6:12 without Burn.

 

 

Previous times on current live servers under the same conditions: 4 minutes with Burn
 

4:56

4:37

4:55

4:34

 

 

Trapdoor test, bosses enabled, no incarnate clickies used, no -res procs:

 

6:13

6:07

 

Previous times on current live servers under the same conditions: 6 minutes.

 

I'm probably skewing things with Dragon Tail's FF proc speeding things.

 

 

 

To be honest I'm conflicted. On one hand the AoE clear times remain the same despite the too-large-in-my-opinion extra recharge, but the nerf to single target is pretty darn brutal. I don't see what could be done about it that would not increase the AoE clear times though. Perhaps shaving some recharge off Fiery Embrace.

 

 

Fire Armor remains a good alternative for attack sets with weak or very late AoE and Burn still adds a nice boost to use instead of the weakest ST skill of a build.

 

 

All the rest works as advertised with Consume increasing HP from 2551 to 2832. Switching to full Panaceia made the HP go from 2579 to 3134. This is pretty decent and bordering the HP cap, but making Consume the carrier of the HP buff does not make much sense since it is a much needed endurance clickie and it is thus slotted for endurance recovery. Frankenslotting will be a thing for the future if the more logical change to attach the boost to Healing Flames is not made.

 

Now being the time to tune the set I would add my voice to making the endurance part of Consume auto-hit. It is a LONG cooldown just to be hit by the 5% fairy.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sovera

[ScarySai]

Dial back the burn nerfs and my major complaint with the patch vanishes. Simply put, ya overdid it.

 

For brutes it's a MASSIVE nerf, the burn patch itself might as well do zero damage like it did for the other ATs, now. The player should be rewarded for keeping things in the patch. Buff the patch damage to be not cosmetic, and the core issue of mine goes away.

 

For the other ATS, the loss of the x5 burn patches doesn't actually hurt them that much, since it was bugged to begin with, outside of procs one can even argue it to be a buff due to the activation/range thing, however, proccing it is still going to be the play, as the power itself just isn't mega impressive outside of how it used to be on brutes.

 

Tl;dr Bump patch damage up a bit, and remove that ridiculous CD increase.

 

Edit for clarity: This post was made when burn was bugged to not inherit damage buffs. Naturally, this was hitting brutes, who rely on fury, particularly hard.  I love five-patch burn too, but I doubt they'll budge on that. Burn seems "fine" for now, as it stands.

Edited October 10, 2022 by ScarySai

[Zeraphia]

I understand the rework so that procs don't go absolutely crazy in the power multiple times over, however I must say 25s->45s is an absolutely insane nerf. Yes, these changes are nice, but I think there's a huge segment of the community that would honestly rather just have burn patched with its normal recharge values than have these QoL features in exchange for a massive CD increase.

[EmperorRiptide]

I honestly think a "Explain like I'm 5" on the fire armor burn/rad armor irradiate ground changes would go a long way in the patch notes. So many people are gonna knee jerk reaction to these changes and not understand what is actually happening to the power. A simple straightforward explanation of WHY the changes are being made, and how they enhance the powerset would help. If it is a desired nerf to farming in general, be up front about it. If its intended to do something different or be a legit enhancement, explain that too. 

Either way, I think the 'notes' on the changes are good. But, a rationale is needed because you're gonna be kicking a hornets nest with this and you know they all aren't gonna take the time to try it first.

[BrandX]

Still needs more Cold Resist *nod nod*

[Xiddo]

11 hours ago, The Curator said:

 

Consume

• Power now grants a small Max HP buff even if no targets are available or hit.
• Power no longer needs a target to grant End Drain protection. (+End still requires targets)
• Power no longer claims it is auto-hit.
• This power now takes Healing sets and enhancements.

Just to confirm: is this only the FA version of Consume and not the APP/ Fiery manipulation/ dominator versions?

EDIT: Ideally, the changes for FA and FM which also affect Dominators and Blasters should go to both ATs and not just blasters.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Xiddo

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Dial back the burn nerfs and my major complaint with the patch vanishes. Simply put, ya overdid it.

 

For brutes it's a MASSIVE nerf, the burn patch itself might as well do zero damage like it does for the other ATs, now. The player should be rewarded for keeping things in the patch. Buff the patch damage to be not cosmetic, and the core issue of mine goes away.

 

For the other ATS, the loss of the x5 burn patches doesn't actually hurt them that much, since it was bugged to begin with, outside of procs one can even argue it to be a buff due to the activation/range thing, however, proccing it is still going to be the play, as the power itself just isn't mega impressive outside of how it used to be on brutes.

 

The heck you're talking about? The patch is cosmetics only? Patch does no damage?

 

On a Tanker the initial damage is 143 Fire damage followed by ten ticks of 7.39 of Fire damage over a period of ten seconds for a total of 74 damage.

 

So the 'cosmetic' fire patch does 50% of Burn's damage. On live the patch did 40% of Burn's damage.

 

 

On a Brute I hit a pylon until the Fury bar was full as it gets then used Burn. The initial hit is 194 Fire damage with ten ticks of 6 Fire damage (these numbers fluctuate due to Fury so don't take them as set in stone like the Tanker's ones) making the patch do 31% of Burn's damage.

 

 

The difference between Tanker Burn and Brute Burn is 17%.

 

 

Guys, please, test shit out. I am as annoyed at the single target damage loss as anyone else, and my first reaction was that in AoE Burn became crap. But tests showed the AoE remained the same and claims the patch is cosmetic only does not help this thread.

 

Test shit, bring numbers not gut feels.

[thunderforce]

12 hours ago, The Curator said:

Damage increased when used while dead, relative to Live.

I really hope this pun was intentional.

[Digirium]

The health regeneration component added to Temperature Protection is really strong.

 

Needing health to be 75% or less to use Phoenix Rising reminds of that epic fail of when Defiance on Blasters worked better in proportion to when health was lower. Do it the other way around -- activate Phoenix Rising, lose some health with devastating effect like the health was being channelled into damage (no need to give a heal to hit points when the power is activated). Losing some health works better with the change to Temperature Protection.

 

Burn changes are good on the whole except for the 25 -> 45s recharge time change. I think it's too much.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Digirium said:

The health regeneration component added to Temperature Protection is really strong.

 

Needing health to be 75% or less to use Phoenix Rising reminds of that epic fail of when Defiance on Blasters worked better in proportion to when health was lower. Do it the other way around -- activate Phoenix Rising, lose some health with devastating effect like the health was being channelled into damage (no need to give a heal to hit points when the power is activated). Losing some health works better with the change to Temperature Protection.

 

Burn changes are good on the whole except for the 25 -> 45s recharge time change. I think it's too much.

 

Define 'really strong'. It's 100% regen, that's about 10 HPS. Not going to spit on it, but 'really strong'? Build on live has 20 HPS and on the PTS it has 30 HPS. Those near 11 extra HP a second go of Temperature Protection go up to 13 with Consume slotted for heals making the build go up to 40 HPS.

 

The combo of regen from Temperature Protection and Consume slotted for heals will double the regen though, but it's a small thing in my book to have an extra 20 HPS when our HP is 3.1k (assuming Consume slotted for heals).

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, Marbing said:

I both like the changes to RoTP (now PoTP), and dont like them. 

I like that it gives the set some extra survival and damage output. 

I don't like that this essentially means a FA tank/brute (for example) will get mad if they get healed beyond that 75% threshold. This becomes old Blaster Defiance to an extent. 

 

RoTP is only up every 90 seconds or so (Hasten, lots of global recharge, etc). It's an explosion, a KB, a heal and an endurance recovery clicky all rolled into it. But it's still a defensive T9 meant for when things go badly. And the 90 seconds-at-best makes using it for damage an outlier. Even Blaster nukes are up every 50 seconds at worst making it once every 2-3 spawns.

 

So the Brute/Tanker using it for damage (assuming that they are slotting RotP for damage instead of a panic button with heals) would happen every.. what, 4-5 groups? Not gonna say it would not happen, but...

[Seed22]

14 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Dial back the burn nerfs and my major complaint with the patch vanishes. Simply put, ya overdid it.

 

For brutes it's a MASSIVE nerf, the burn patch itself might as well do zero damage like it did for the other ATs, now. The player should be rewarded for keeping things in the patch. Buff the patch damage to be not cosmetic, and the core issue of mine goes away.

 

For the other ATS, the loss of the x5 burn patches doesn't actually hurt them that much, since it was bugged to begin with, outside of procs one can even argue it to be a buff due to the activation/range thing, however, proccing it is still going to be the play, as the power itself just isn't mega impressive outside of how it used to be on brutes.

This. 
 

After testing it on my brute, it makes things…interesting for fire farming.  Tried it on my tank too for general content and yeah the recharge is just wrong on Burn. Everything else makes sense, the multi patch thing, the procs stuff, but that recharge is quite simply wrong and unnecessary.