Devs, please explain why you are nerfing one of the most popular activities on Homecoming

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

 

But I see more "anti-farm" conversations in game than on the forums, but that's just me.

Most likely because you are more sensitive to it.

I play on Excelsior and only occasionally do I notice someone in LFG respond to someone looking for a farm negatively.  Usually it doesn’t last long - a comment or two.

 

Not saying it doesn’t happen more, just that I’m not on the “lookout” for it, so I may not always notice it.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Ghost

[Wobegone]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

 

I don't think it should be called "hate speech", just a difference in opinion. Some can be passionate or aggressive with their argument. But I see more "anti-farm" conversations in game than on the forums, but that's just me.

I don't have any scientific reason to challenge your experiences.  But based on my own memory as a longtime forum lurker, and one who 'listens' to all of the public channels in game, the number of people who are anti-farmer are a tiny fraction of the playerbase.  Most are ambivalent or uncaring.  Some may express...distaste...for some farming activities, but most of those are against AFK farming.   The rest simply don't care.  On the forums, I can think of two posters over the years who have been xenophobically anti-farming and one of them no longer post here.  There have been a number of posters on the forums who've posted concerns or even dislike of farming in general.  None but the two I remember actually called for a ban of farming.  

 

This idea that there are factions that are against farming isn't based on evidence.  It's based on feelings.  The truth is far more nuanced than that.  

[battlewraith]

5 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

This idea that there are factions that are against farming isn't based on evidence.  It's based on feelings.  The truth is far more nuanced than that.

 

Most of the opinions expressed on these forums are based on subjective experience. Personally I think there's a substantial amount of anti-farming sentiment of the forums, I can't say I've run into much ingame aside from the occasional person in lfg ranting about pl begging.

 

So where is this faction of anti-farmers? You've run into 2 xenophobically anti-farmers and Deputy Luminara has done her forum sleuthing and found nothing. Well the answer is that this is a rhetorical distortion, a kind of strawman. It's similar to when someone asks if there is fascism in a country and then goes out and can't find literal goosestepping nazis with swastikas tattooed on their foreheads. And then concludes that there is no fascism.

 

The current state of the game is that a large percentage of players, if not a numerical majority, engage in farming to some degree. And importantly the devs, despite issuing some unpopular changes, openly tolerate farming. Under these circumstance, anyone openly arguing for a farming nerf will get flamed as a radical. If the devs changed their stance, I have no doubt that would change immediately.

 

Anti-farm bias currently manifests as a kind of schadenfreude.  People antagonistic to farming don't start threads. They weigh in on discussions started by people complaining. They will state at length that they don't care how you play, but in the course of debating something they claim to not care about the mask will start to droop and they will let their real feelings appear. People aren't earning stuff, they want easy mode, they're distorting gameplay, INFLATION, etc. In comparison, there are a lot of things in this game to which I am truly indifferent (badges, tfs) so I don't go into discussions to argue with people whether they have valid concerns or they're just ranting.

 

Of course, there is a confounding factor in this: People who aren't actually invested either way but use a "free market of ideas" ethos as justification to be pedantic about anything because they are bored. Get your complaining off their lawn...which isn't actually their lawn.

 

 

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Anti-farm bias currently manifests as a kind of schadenfreude.  People antagonistic to farming don't start threads. They weigh in on discussions started by people complaining. They will state at length that they don't care how you play, but in the course of debating something they claim to not care about the mask will start to droop and they will let their real feelings appear. People aren't earning stuff, they want easy mode, they're distorting gameplay, INFLATION, etc. In comparison, there are a lot of things in this game to which I am truly indifferent (badges, tfs) so I don't go into discussions to argue with people whether they have valid concerns or they're just ranting.

It's not farming or farmers that people are arguing with or about.  People latching onto the label of farmer and using it as an excuse to be petulant and entitled, that's the problem.  People leveling accusations of discrimination when game-wide changes, which affect everyone, affect them, and claiming that they were singled out because they're farmers.  People demanding apologies, explanations, roll-backs for changes, despite the changes being universal, and insisting that they were targeted because they farm.  People who display hostility and unfriendly attitudes toward anyone who doesn't agree with them, and insist that the hostility and unfriendliness they receive in return is because they're farmers.

 

Being a farmer, farming, door-sitting in farms, farm income, none of these have anything to do with the responses in threads like this.  It's not farmers that people dislike.  It's not farming that drives people to argue in these threads.  It's drama queens.  And it's not that there's an anti-farmer sentiment, we're all just tired of trying to reason with people who refuse to accept that this isn't all about them, and trying to be nice to people who slap our hands every time we extend them in friendship.

 

You reap what you sow.

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

It's not farming or farmers that people are arguing with or about.  People latching onto the label of farmer and using it as an excuse to be petulant and entitled, that's the problem.  People leveling accusations of discrimination when game-wide changes, which affect everyone, affect them, and claiming that they were singled out because they're farmers.  People demanding apologies, explanations, roll-backs for changes, despite the changes being universal, and insisting that they were targeted because they farm.  People who display hostility and unfriendly attitudes toward anyone who doesn't agree with them, and insist that the hostility and unfriendliness they receive in return is because they're farmers.

 

Being a farmer, farming, door-sitting in farms, farm income, none of these have anything to do with the responses in threads like this.  It's not farmers that people dislike.  It's not farming that drives people to argue in these threads.  It's drama queens.  And it's not that there's an anti-farmer sentiment, we're all just tired of trying to reason with people who refuse to accept that this isn't all about them, and trying to be nice to people who slap our hands every time we extend them in friendship.

 

You reap what you sow.

 

It's not your position to give people what you think is their comeuppance. The devs can defend themselves. The moderation staff is perfectly capable of keeping the forums within acceptable behavioral norms. In fact they seem pretty clear that the best way to handle objectionable threads is to ignore them and let them sink off the page.

 

Now if you don't want to do this, fine. But you're intelligent enough and should be mature enough to recognize that you are one of the drama queens. Pouring your anger into these discussions doesn't resolve them---it feeds the dysfunction. "We're all just tired.." Who is we? Why do you think people assume that there are hostile factions lol?

Edited November 13, 2022 by battlewraith
Grammar

[Neiska]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:32 AM, Ignatz the Insane said:

It's based on feelings.  The truth is far more nuanced than that.  

 

Given that no player here has access to the actual data, and only know what the Devs who do have access have said, I would argue that everything here is based on opinion or feelings. All we know for certain is how much a player can make doing a certain activity. We (the players posting here) don't know how many people farm, for how long, etc etc.

[Neiska]

15 hours ago, Luminara said:

It's not farming or farmers that people are arguing with or about.  People latching onto the label of farmer and using it as an excuse to be petulant and entitled, that's the problem.  People leveling accusations of discrimination when game-wide changes, which affect everyone, affect them, and claiming that they were singled out because they're farmers.  People demanding apologies, explanations, roll-backs for changes, despite the changes being universal, and insisting that they were targeted because they farm.  People who display hostility and unfriendly attitudes toward anyone who doesn't agree with them, and insist that the hostility and unfriendliness they receive in return is because they're farmers.

 

Being a farmer, farming, door-sitting in farms, farm income, none of these have anything to do with the responses in threads like this.  It's not farmers that people dislike.  It's not farming that drives people to argue in these threads.  It's drama queens.  And it's not that there's an anti-farmer sentiment, we're all just tired of trying to reason with people who refuse to accept that this isn't all about them, and trying to be nice to people who slap our hands every time we extend them in friendship.

 

You reap what you sow.

 

You: "There is no anti-farming narrative."

Also You: "You farmers are entitled, petulant, hostile, unfriendly, drama queens! You reap what you sow!"

 

Uh huh. And those against farming have been nothing but reasonable and respectful? Please, spare me. One person can't even post a different opinion or option about farming without 3-4 people dogpiling them. Personally, I think its the anti-farmers who have been more of a drama queen here. It's not the farmers who keep stirring the pot. And you have a funny view of "extending the hand of friendship" with the "Play this way or else" context. I mean, if you consider this respectful friendly discourse, I wonder how you might treat someone you consider an "enemy."

 

Honestly? It's getting to the point where I don't even have to say "I told you so."

 

And besides all that, people can certainly voice their opinion, which may include disagreement or dis-satisfaction with a change or update. And these sort of responses does little to address those concerns or as you call it, "extending the hand of friendship."

 

Constantly attacking people with negativity is not offering them an olive branch, and you of all people claiming such made me spit out my coffee.

[battlewraith]

7 hours ago, Neiska said:

Constantly attacking people with negativity is not offering them an olive branch, and you of all people claiming such made me spit out my coffee.

 

No shit. The hand of friendship is apparently a tinfoil hat conspiracy meme (her first post in this thread).

And it's not about farmers, it's about drama queens. Except when she explicitly mocks farmers (her second post in this thread).

It's not like you have to look hard to find this stuff.

Edited November 13, 2022 by battlewraith

[Seed22]

Whenever it comes to anti farming as of late I  assume it’s someone with low or no inf mad because someone else found a way to gain inf faster without the need of others.

 

To which I say: Check the guides section on making Inf. Farming isnt the only way, and you can get your inf through markets(faster and more) or through a number of alternatives! 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Seed22

[GM Impervium]

Has everyone had their say yet? Getting a little tired of all the arguing.

 

[MoonSheep]

20 minutes ago, GM Impervium said:

Has everyone had their say yet? Getting a little tired of all the arguing.

 

but we need to have the argument from different angles 

 

[GM Impervium]

3 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

but we need to have the argument from different angles 

 

You're lucky I don't have access to Jimmy's Knife emote! >=O

"Sad" will have to do.

[MHertz]

I used to be against farming, back when I was young and foolish and I thought I knew what it was. Today, it’s really hard for me to define some bright line in the sand that says “this behavior is farming and is not acceptable” and “that behavior is not farming and can be condoned.”

 

Lots of behaviors in this game point toward players trying to gain rewards at a faster pace, or with less risk.

• Designing a mission, creating a build, and/or writing scripts to acquire game rewards while AFK
• Running missions in AE to reduce travel time altogether
• Using zone-teleport powers to eliminate travel time between missions in an arc
• Running radio missions in a zone so you don’t have to travel very far
• Setting your notoriety to higher level enemies and larger spawn sizes to gain XP faster
• Abandoning a story arc when you outlevel the enemies
• Speed-running a task force for the merits and badges
• Always running with teams of 8 when possible
• Skipping powers in a set that do not offer as much advantage; taking power pools which balance your weaknesses
• Skipping to the end of certain missions in an arc or TF
• Running radio missions in PI (as long as it is Council)
• Going AFK in a mission while the team fights on
• Forming leagues for special events
• Avoiding enemies too difficult for that level (eg, Vahzilok at 10, Tsoo at 15) in favor of enemies against which you can more easily succeed
• Back on Live, trying to get exemplared to the lowest-level person on the team for maximum XP gain
• Back on Live, herding whole swaths of Perez Park into a dumpster to be burned

if you’re honest with yourself you’ve probably done many of these things. But somehow they are not all considered “farming” despite occupying a space somewhere on the “advantage-seeking” continuum. The more I thought about it, the anti-farming rhetoric was really about anointing certain kinds of advantage-seeking behavior as approved, while denigrating other kinds. What’s the point?

[Obus Form]

5 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

Has everyone had their say yet? Getting a little tired of all the arguing.

 

I left this game 1 year ago but recently began reading its forums.  Over the last few months, I became Admin/Mod of another game's discord with several hundred, almost 1000 users. 

 

In that time, I've learnt to appreciate what the GMs here do.  The majority of game-related forums is about sharing strategy (sometimes), random/life things (not really), and complaining of things not yet done/of decisions made by other players/reasons why the game is terrible (much yes).  No matter what your decision is, there will be those who do not appreciate and likely voice their concern.  Those that appreciate remain quiet (usually).

 

To all GMs and people behind the scenes, 110% thank you from the bottom of my small Obus Heart for all the work you have done.  They may not say it directly, but they do appreciate your patience, your life hours, and your balanced mindset.  On behalf of the silent ones who appreciate, we love you guys.  Thank you for your hours sitting behind your computer, and your unrelenting dedication to maintaining peace amongst the players.  ❤️🫂

[Troo]

On 11/9/2022 at 2:38 PM, Astralock said:

 

Farmers generate wealth.  Merchers redistribute wealth (usually to themselves), but don't create it unlike farmers.  That's a massive difference.

 

What do crafters do?

[Bionic_Flea]

27 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

What do crafters do?

Crafters gonna craft . . . and burn money while crafting.

[Luminara]

47 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

What do crafters do?

 

Bundt cakes.

[DR_Mechano]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:53 PM, Krimson said:

I don't mind the changes since I focus on Smashing Lethal and Page 5 just made it easier to keep mobs close. The fact everyone is beholden to Fire amuses me, as well as the trickle of dead farmers who still don't know about Fire Sword.

As someone who has been away from the game for some time...what are all these changes that have reduced fire farming effectivity, I'm kind of out of the loop here but if push came to shove, My War Mace/Bio brute can smash through the old S/L farms in pretty quick order...not nearly as quick as my Spines/Fire brute but I'm guessing something has changed which makes Fire Sword bypass fire resistance or now deal S/L damage + Fire damage instead of pure Fire?

[MistressOhm]

42 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Fire Sword bypass fire resistance

 

It debuffs Defense outright.  This means that other Fire attacks are more likely to cause damage once FS hits.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by MistressOhm

[The Chairman]

30 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

 

It debuffs Fire resistance outright.  This means that other Fire attacks cause more damage once FS hits.

 

 

 

No it doesn't. It debuffs defense. From the Page 5 patch notes:

 

Fire Sword

• Now does pure fire damage.
• Now grants a small defense debuff.
• Now accepts accurate defense debuff and defense debuff enhancements and sets.

 

 

[MistressOhm]

2 minutes ago, The Chairman said:

 

No it doesn't. It debuffs defense. From the Page 5 patch notes:

 

Fire Sword

• Now does pure fire damage.
• Now grants a small defense debuff.
• Now accepts accurate defense debuff and defense debuff enhancements and sets.

 

 

 

 

Thank you!  Post corrected.   Practical upshot is still much the same, however - as Def gets debuffed, attacks are more likely to land.

[DR_Mechano]

1 hour ago, MistressOhm said:

 

It debuffs Defense outright.  This means that other Fire attacks are more likely to cause damage once FS hits.

 

 

Oh I see...well did a test run with my Spines/Fire brute and the difference was...incredibly minor to say the least...I assume people were using Scrappers for faster clear speed or something because those fire attacks basically tickled and wasn't anything the occasional green insp couldn't fix. I'm guessing they've turned off the double XP booster in AE, noticed a drop in the amount of levels a test run gave.

[MistressOhm]

Just now, DR_Mechano said:

I'm guessing they've turned off the double XP booster in AE

 

Yes, the XP Boost has been fixed.  Rather than multiplicative (double XP) it was additive (1+1=2), and that meant that AE's nerfage of XP to 0.5 meant that the XP buff didn't restore that to even keel (0.5 x2 = 1) but instead tripled it (0.5 +1 = 1.5).

 

[Arbegla]

So I'm late to the party, but did they nerf GM/AV hunting? Because that's my most popular activity on Homecoming.

[MHertz]

The nerfed Blasters by taking away debt and face-planting.