Make melee weapons meaningful.

[captainstar]

I think melee weapons could be more than just a thing we pick for costumes. Like a fire sword can hit with fire damage, and so on...

[Player2]

First we would need either more weapons or somehow the ability to add auras to weapons.  I know we have a few already, but they're kind of limited and the typical recommendation would be to play a different powerset with the appropriate weapons built in (fiery melee and fire manipulation, for example).  I feel like if we could get reliable weapon auras to simulate different kinds of effects, it would be fairly easy to implement additional damage of the appropriate type with special damage proc IO enhancements... something that adds a little DoT of the appropriate type for flavor.

[Yaliw]

I'd like to see this but I question the feasibility. 

 

 

 

 

[Grouchybeast]

One of the fundamental (and best, imo) things about CoH is that costume choices are kept separate from powers.  We don't have a game where everyone feels they have to min-max into the same ugly armour because it has the best stats.   Roughly ten seconds after this was implemented, people would start complaining that they don't like being forced to use the fire sword to get the highest bonus damage, or the singing sword to get -res.

[captainstar]

47 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

One of the fundamental (and best, imo) things about CoH is that costume choices are kept separate from powers.  We don't have a game where everyone feels they have to min-max into the same ugly armour because it has the best stats.   Roughly ten seconds after this was implemented, people would start complaining that they don't like being forced to use the fire sword to get the highest bonus damage, or the singing sword to get -res.

 

I get your point, maybe I have to put more toughts on this idea. Maybe this could be made for specific weapons that anyone can choose. Like the shields with auras. Or these weapons could have a specific slot for it, that we could change at anytime. Something like this.

[Greycat]

Closest right now would be, say, a proc that adds fire/cold/whatever damage. Which would probably be the "easiest" way to add it (make single-slot "effect" IOs not part of a set to slot in,) other than temp powers... wouldn't affect the look though as far as I know. (Which... you'd get people complaining about the look. *shrug*)

[megaericzero]

41 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Closest right now would be, say, a proc that adds fire/cold/whatever damage. Which would probably be the "easiest" way to add it (make single-slot "effect" IOs not part of a set to slot in,) other than temp powers... wouldn't affect the look though as far as I know. (Which... you'd get people complaining about the look. *shrug*)

You can achieve the effect portion of this to a degree with some of the interface branches. Though, I think the proc caps at 75% chance on the damage so not a true secondary effect and people probably aren't keen on having to wait for post-50 to have a core part of their character concept available. Plus, checking the wiki, it looks like smashing, lethal, and cold don't have options.

 

Personally, I think a good implementation someone previously suggested in another thread is to give the elemental melee sets weapon and non-weapon options for all of their animations.

Edited November 28, 2022 by megaericzero
Clear ambiguity on last sentence.

[Cybersbe]

While I very much see the appeal, I doubt they could seriously implement this without creating balance issues. 
 

As it stands, I’d settle for an option to alter the sound effects of melee weapons to better facilitate roleplayers. That, and making it possible for auras to be applied to weapons.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cybersbe

[Player2]

3 minutes ago, Cybersbe said:

While I very much see the appeal, I doubt they could seriously implement this without creating balance issues. 

 

That's why I suggest new enhancements with a little extra type-specific DoT... because anyone could use it.

 

Got flaming swords in your Dual Blades scrapper?  Add flaming DoT proc.

Want burning darkness in your dark blasts?  Add flaming DoT proc.

Want your mind control to have varying damage types?  Put a different DoT proc in each attack.

 

If they're uncommon and generally readily available, balance won't be an issue.  Some will whine that they can't fit them into their super tight maximized build... but if their build is that tight then they're choosing whatever benefit(s) comes with what they've chosen over a little extra thematic DPS.

[TheZag]

Im thinking either having melee weapons as alternate animations or a clone of the set with a weapon added.  So it would be fiery melee + weapon or dark melee + weapon.  Like fiery melee + axe,  ice melee + mace,  dark melee + sword and all the other combinations.  Im not sure if existing weapon animations could replicate all of their punchy counterparts but it would take care of balance issues and not being forced into a certain weapon while allowing for elemental damages with a weapon.

 

[Menelruin]

35 minutes ago, TheZag said:

Im thinking either having melee weapons as alternate animations or a clone of the set with a weapon added.  So it would be fiery melee + weapon or dark melee + weapon.  Like fiery melee + axe,  ice melee + mace,  dark melee + sword and all the other combinations.  Im not sure if existing weapon animations could replicate all of their punchy counterparts but it would take care of balance issues and not being forced into a certain weapon while allowing for elemental damages with a weapon.

 

This.  Let every power in Fiery Melee have a "sword" option, etc.

[BrandX]

41 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

This.  Let every power in Fiery Melee have a "sword" option, etc.

 

And a non fire sword option would also be nice.

[MHertz]

Why do so many people want to add D&D-style or WOW-style medieval weapons to the mix? I don’t object to the idea that there could be a few here and there, but we’ve got mace, axe, katana, staff, and dual blades, plus shields and archery. How much more like Warcraft does this game have to get? Where are all these superheroes wielding flaming swords that we need to emulate?

 

If we demand flaming swords today, tomorrow it will be poisoned daggers and plate armor and Bows of Frost +3 and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Come on, if we want to add things to the game, let’s add superhero things. Wall-crawling, webs, grappling hooks, shapeshifting, size changing, chameleon powers, power stealing, secret identities, vehicles, that kind of thing.

[TheZag]

We already use the D&D 20 sided dice for our hit rolls,  so only every attack in the game is rooted in D&D.  Even with that ignored,  i was getting ready to suggest almost the same thing with ranged attacks and guns.  A freeze ray, flame rifle,  energy rifle,  a fart gun....i mean dark blast rifle.  We have the weapons,  we have the powersets,  perhaps the 2 will be able to meet someday.

 

[MTeague]

13 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

And a non fire sword option would also be nice.

 

Yea. I don't use Fire Melee or Ice Melee because I hate the elemental sword looks.
Fine and dandy for everyone who likes them, just not my cup of tea and I have lots of other choices.
But I would circle back around to these powersets if other visual options were provided.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, MHertz said:

Why do so many people want to add D&D-style or WOW-style medieval weapons to the mix? I don’t object to the idea that there could be a few here and there, but we’ve got mace, axe, katana, staff, and dual blades, plus shields and archery. How much more like Warcraft does this game have to get? Where are all these superheroes wielding flaming swords that we need to emulate?

 

If we demand flaming swords today, tomorrow it will be poisoned daggers and plate armor and Bows of Frost +3 and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Come on, if we want to add things to the game, let’s add superhero things. Wall-crawling, webs, grappling hooks, shapeshifting, size changing, chameleon powers, power stealing, secret identities, vehicles, that kind of thing.

Poisoned daggers? Check. Used by assassin characters to debilitate/kill regenerative and high resistance characters in comics already.

Plate armor? Check. Can be seen on such characters as Silver Samurai and other "traditional" comic characters.

Bows of Frost +3? Okay, they aren't +3, but there are comic characters that generate bows (and other weapons) with their elemental powers for combat. So, check.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power? They aren't ogrish power items, but magic gauntlets that grant the character super strength can be found in comics by some magic characters.

 

Hate to break it to you, but fantasy and comics have a very sizable overlap.

 

Edit: Also? We already have the Envenomed Dagger temp power and the plate armor costume pieces in the game. So your comment falls rather flat just from what the game already provides. Gauntlets of Ogre Power? Pick a gauntlet or bracer costume piece for your super strength magic origin character. Instant gauntlets of ogre power. The opposition to having an option for players to use is baffling. You don't have to use the options.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to correct "boes" to "bows".

[MHertz]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Hate to break it to you, but fantasy and comics have a very sizable overlap.

Inasmuch as D&D borrowed everything from everybody, regardless whether it was thematic or sensible, yes. Whether a superhero game should go out of its way to become “City of Warcraft,” and replicate every medieval weapon set with magic powers before we make it a superhero game, let’s not.

 

The absolute worst set in the game is Super Strength. It’s the one damn set that should stand head and shoulders above the rest as being “super.” But it isn’t. Powers like Super Speed are … pretty lame compared to comics. I don’t think more weapons are the right direction.

Edited November 28, 2022 by MHertz

[Rudra]

They're talking about options for animations. Not about implementing a copper/silver/gold currency system to buy weapons, armor, and other gear with fixed stat bonuses and abilities. Just options for use with the already existing powers and mechanincs. Something far easier to implement in the game than say wall crawling or even grapple hooks/grapple lines for getting around. Unless of course you want to go the CO route and just have your grapple hooks and swinglines attach to nothing.

[Rudra]

In answer to your edit: There are limits to what powers can do in a video game. Do you really want to play a character that runs so fast with super speed that with your non-super reflexes throws you to the far reaches of Nerva Archipelago because by the time you realized you were at your mission, you were already half the map away again? And all power sets have to be balanced against each other. Never mind how often super strength only holds its own against other melee combat type powers unless you were an enraged Hulk or Gladiator.

 

It's fine that you think more weapons are not the right way to go. However, players have been clamoring for fire swords that do fire damage since the game came out. And Fire Melee only lets you use 3 powers with fire swords. Alternate sword animations for the other attack powers in the set allows the player to maintain a cohesive set of attacks visually. Likewise, ahving alternate animations that aren't swords for those 3 sword powers does the same for players that don't envision their fire-wielding character using swords. More options are better. And it doesn't mean the game is now Super WoW or whatever.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, MHertz said:

Why do so many people want to add D&D-style or WOW-style medieval weapons to the mix? I don’t object to the idea that there could be a few here and there, but we’ve got mace, axe, katana, staff, and dual blades, plus shields and archery. How much more like Warcraft does this game have to get? Where are all these superheroes wielding flaming swords that we need to emulate?

 

If we demand flaming swords today, tomorrow it will be poisoned daggers and plate armor and Bows of Frost +3 and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Come on, if we want to add things to the game, let’s add superhero things. Wall-crawling, webs, grappling hooks, shapeshifting, size changing, chameleon powers, power stealing, secret identities, vehicles, that kind of thing.

 

Well, I mean, we have poisoned daggers and plate armor already.  Can probably pass a bow off as a Bow of Frost.  😛  Gauntlets?  Yup!

 

Wall-crawling may have an issue due to limits of game, same with grappling hooks.  Wouldn't mind some web based power set, we do have weapons that do webbing.  I'd argue we have secret identities with costume changing tho.  😛  Most secret identities are just that...not wearing a mask. 

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

 

Yea. I don't use Fire Melee or Ice Melee because I hate the elemental sword looks.
Fine and dandy for everyone who likes them, just not my cup of tea and I have lots of other choices.
But I would circle back around to these powersets if other visual options were provided.

 

Same.  I have an ice melee tho, as I just took Frozen Fists instead of Ice Sword and last I knew GIS wasn't any good.

[Player2]

10 hours ago, MHertz said:

Why do so many people want to add D&D-style or WOW-style medieval weapons to the mix?

 

There is a rich comic book history of characters wielding archaic weapons, either magical or just exceptional non-magical stuff.

[SomeGuy]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:43 PM, Grouchybeast said:

One of the fundamental (and best, imo) things about CoH is that costume choices are kept separate from powers.  We don't have a game where everyone feels they have to min-max into the same ugly armour because it has the best stats.   Roughly ten seconds after this was implemented, people would start complaining that they don't like being forced to use the fire sword to get the highest bonus damage, or the singing sword to get -res.

 

THISSSSS

 

You never know if the person on your team in what looks like a Random costume can carry the whole team on a +4 TF.

[kelika2]

Option 1:  Give players the option for Buildup, or an elemental affinity.  An ele ability that needs a respec to change (or alt build, remember alt builds have no enhancements)

Option 2:  remove the minor damage attack, move up parry/divine avalanche, swap ammo.  however with a long enough cooldown

i got bored typing