How does taunt work ???

[smnolimits43]

I'm not sure if i read the new Taunt right.  Does it only aggro up to 5 people at a time ??  I was planning on trying out the Fire Melee changes, and bring back Canadian Torch, who i leveled to 50 on Guardian and Freedom servers.

[Spaghetti Betty]

You are correct. The Taunt power will only taunt a handful of targets. However as a Tanker, everything you do inflicts Taunt. Single target attacks have a splash Taunt effect, and AoEs (including your dmg/debuff toggle) will Taunt every target they hit as well.

 

The Taunt power is still useful for compelling far away foes to run up to you, as it also has a built in -range component.

[Snarky]

Okay, Tankers (and Brutes) "Taunt" everything they hit. I just called this "grabbing agro"

 

Is this different than the "Taunt" effect I assumed Taunt did and that we have all experienced from Black Scorpion in the MLTF?

[Luminara]

Like this.

[Spaghetti Betty]

29 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Okay, Tankers (and Brutes) "Taunt" everything they hit. I just called this "grabbing agro"

 

Is this different than the "Taunt" effect I assumed Taunt did and that we have all experienced from Black Scorpion in the MLTF?

The way I understand it, when we Taunt a mob, it increases our threat level to them. The AI then determines if we have enough Threat to switch to us as its target, which, in theory, should be 100% of the time after Taunting.

 

Enemy Taunt is different. Since the player has a brain (and therefore our "threat level" is nonexistent), the game forces us to only be able to target the Taunter until the duration is complete.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Spaghetti Betty

[Snarky]

I see.  It is effectively the same but completely different.  Grabbing agro dictates the games response.  Using Taunt nearly guarantees the result unless you are trying to steal from a Tank

[smnolimits43]

ok i just remade Canadian Torch, and he's already lvl 9.  I dont have taunt just yet.  I realize that as a fire/fire tank, i'm giving up durability for damage.  

[Snarky]

13 minutes ago, smnolimits43 said:

ok i just remade Canadian Torch, and he's already lvl 9.  I dont have taunt just yet.  I realize that as a fire/fire tank, i'm giving up durability for damage.  

Oh yeah but that thing is vicious.  I just leveled a Dark Melee Fire Brute.  Insane fun.  Thinking of running through as a Fire Armor Dark Melee Tank now.  Worked a bit on the build last couple days.  Just wicked vicious

[Zect]

Quote

How does taunt work ???

 

Nobody knows, not even the person who coded it.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

Nobody knows, not even the person who coded it.

 

Happy Fun Ball Knows.

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

The way I understand it, when we Taunt a mob, it increases our threat level to them.

 

Yes. The powers will even say that they have a taunt component to them. Taunt is different then getting damage from agro. Most tanker attacks can slot threat enhancements.

Tanker taunts are stronger than damage agro.

 

@smnolimits43

 

5 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

the game forces us to only be able to target the Taunter until the duration is complete.

 

.... or you use a break free or have some other way to break the taunt effect. (I think clear mind and O2 will clear it as well)

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by UltraAlt

[tidge]

IIRC, there are some subtleties when considering Taunt/Confront and Provoke (Presence Pool) and 'Taunt' Auras. Those who feel more authoritative should fee free to correct elements of this post. I have not played as many hours with the new HC Aggro rules as I have preceding the change.

 

Taunt/Confront are supposed to be auto-hits (PvE) , although any %proc slotted into any such power will require a "toHit" check, and I am reasonably sure this is  also in addition to the "%proc" check as well.  ToHit checks are required in PvP. I was under the impression that Taunt is much more than 5 targets, and that "5 targets" was the limit from Provoke. Confront is supposed to be single-target... I'm not sure I've ever taken it. City of Data shows 5, maybe I am remembering the effects of Gauntlet on Tankers? 5+Gauntlet seems believable; I've been running some solo arcs with a tanker at x3 and a single Taunt seems to grab "all but 1 or 2" mobs in a spawn. (*1)

 

Provoke always requires a ToHit check, and (from memory) supposed to have a target cap less than  that of Taunt, but City of Data shows a target cap 5 16! In practice (corrected, I was looking at an AI power, not an AT power), I don't ever recall a non-Tanker (I don't play Brutes, sorry) with Provoke drawing attention of very many enemies., even with a 6-slotted Provoke. (So sue me, I like the Mocking Beratement bonuses!) One of my characters with >9999 Reward Merits (equivalent) is a Fortunata who uses Provoke to help squishy allies being overwhelmed as well as to attract scattered enemy groups for faster team clearing, so this isn't an unused power.

 

In my experience: Damage Auras < Taunt Aura, both are rather inferior forms of holding aggro for teams when moving out of aura range.... especially for AT without Gauntlet. I only mention this because there is a a huge difference in necessary aggro management between playing solo on a character and when on a team. It's most noticeable on lower level TFs at x8 (Posi 1 or 2) when a character with a damage aura aggros several spawns in a room but doesn't actually HOLD the aggro.

 

(*1) I've had better results (i.e. aggro grab in solo) using a ranged cone against enemies, only following up with a Taunt if necessary (to reduce their range) to draw them closer, maybe because I can force a ToHit roll against more targets?

 

The mechanics of why do some enemy AI simply decide to run all the way across a map, and how far they choose to run have been a mystery to me since the days of Unyielding rooting players in place. I have a vague memory of changes being made to prevent Fire Tanks from simply farming XP via DE Swarms, and of course it makes no sense that an enemy would stand still in a damage patch, but sometimes it is so silly to see certain enemies scatter as they do.

Edited December 15, 2022 by tidge
corrected target cap for player version of Provoke

[Six-Six]

 

[aethereal]

City of Data doesn't show a target cap of 16 for Provoke, it shows 5.

[Mezmera]

4 hours ago, aethereal said:

City of Data doesn't show a target cap of 16 for Provoke, it shows 5.

 

Yes Provoke is 5 but you can always tab targets and call another group of 5 names.  Taunt is 5 as well but like @tidge was pointing out it is auto hit except for any procs slotted and it also does -range.  That's most of the difference between the two, there's likely higher taunt values from the main taunt powers too.  

 

On tankers though you'll draw so much aggro from other abilities that you can sneeze to maintain max aggro.  My tank's accuracy is pretty great so I went with Provoke so I could pick up Unrelenting.  I never notice any drop in being able to attract attention unless there is another tank spamming their real Taunt.  

Edited December 14, 2022 by Mezmera

[aethereal]

3 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

Yes Provoke is 5 but you can always tab targets and call another group of 5 names.]

Tidge asserted that Provoke had a target cap of 16 in City of Data.

[tidge]

I was just doing a quick search, I suspect that I quickly looked at one of the enemy group versions of Taunt and not a Tanker power.

[Mezmera]

4 hours ago, aethereal said:

Tidge asserted that Provoke had a target cap of 16 in City of Data.

 

Yeah I was backing up your observation while also adding my experience to this topic.  

 

When I respec'd out of Taunt on my tank for Provoke so I could chase Unrelenting I had to look real hard at the two variants of the Taunt/Provoke so that when I got made fun of for not taking Taunt on a tank I had some kind of retort.  

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mezmera

[Doomguide2005]

At one point a long time ago (2009) per Castle from the HCwiki copied over from Paragonwiki:

 

Threat = Damage*Debuff mod*AT mod*Range mod*(Taunt duration remaining*1000).

 

Most threat goes highest on aggro list.  Highest on the foes aggro list gets the attention of the foe

There's as many question marks as facts left by the article nevermind the years since Castle's remarks.

 

 

[MoonSheep]

On 12/14/2022 at 3:47 AM, Snarky said:

Oh yeah but that thing is vicious.  I just leveled a Dark Melee Fire Brute.  Insane fun.  Thinking of running through as a Fire Armor Dark Melee Tank now.  Worked a bit on the build last couple days.  Just wicked vicious

 

tempted by fire/DM myself, or fire/ice - an eternal classic

[Andreah]

There is some very good detailed information about Taunt/Threat in this forums thread: