Super Hard content and gated rewards/toys

[Snarky]

When I discovered Homecoming I was ecstatic. Even more so when I discovered all mu favorite costume pieces were unlocked and P2W had all my old vet rewards

 

Fast forward.  Prismatic Aethers.  Not just them, but the entire design theory that led to them.  Hard to get.  Need a massive number for badges and a stupid massive number for the best costume adaptations.   So large even I do not believe I will ever get one naturally and I play all the time.  
 

I heard someone post recently they almost burned out on the game farming them even though they love the game

 

I find it a strange coincidence that right agter everyone in Cosmic Council farmed theirs….they all left.  And they show no signs of coming back.  

[biostem]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I heard someone post recently they almost burned out on the game farming them even though they love the game

I mean, if you're getting to the point that the game starts feeling like a job or where you're getting burnt out, take a break or switch up how you're playing.  Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, because for me, outside of a few NPC pieces I'd like to see ported over to player costumes, I really don't like the whole character model replacers...

[FupDup]

It's probably better to just buy Prisms off the market at that point. Or use a mixture of earning and buying. 

 

Thankfully, the type of content locked behind this wall are mostly just pre-configured costumes (no editing colors/pieces) and a few niche things like minimode. I'm not a fan of the system as it is now (i.e. some stuff is crazy expensive) but at least it's stuff that is very forgettable/ignorable for the most part. I don't feel like I'm losing out on anything by just ignoring the system entirely. It's probably quite a pain for completionists/collectors though. 

 

If there were stuff like costume pieces (that can be used in the editor), enhancements, power sets, etc. that required prisms to unlock...then it would be time to start flipping tables. 

[Greycat]

Well, first thing -

Do you need them?

Is there a full-body-costume you *need* to have for some concept?

Are you going after "all the badges?"

 

I get the occasional drop. I have characters that still have the 10 from halloween. I pretty much forget they're there (unless I'm 3-ish mil away from something on the AH, then I check to see if that character has any.) Other than that, they don't give anything I particularly care about. I don't particularly like the concept, honestly, but I can pretty much just pretend they don't exist, too.

 

If they're affecting your enjoyment of the game and there's not something specific you want them for? Treat them like legacy salvage and ignore them.

[Snarky]

34 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Well, first thing -

Do you need them?

Is there a full-body-costume you *need* to have for some concept?

Are you going after "all the badges?"

 

I get the occasional drop. I have characters that still have the 10 from halloween. I pretty much forget they're there (unless I'm 3-ish mil away from something on the AH, then I check to see if that character has any.) Other than that, they don't give anything I particularly care about. I don't particularly like the concept, honestly, but I can pretty much just pretend they don't exist, too.

 

If they're affecting your enjoyment of the game and there's not something specific you want them for? Treat them like legacy salvage and ignore them.

I semi seriously badge.  I collected all prismatics I received on all toons from the time they came out onto one toon a week ago.  I was able to afford the badges.  Barely.  And, again, I play a lot.  To me that seems stupid

 

Also I look at the change in Cosmic.  From leading content nearly every night to grinding the newest content for badges and prismatics to gone.  Old SG.  Literally a ghost town for last 4 months 

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I was able to afford the badges.  Barely.  And, again, I play a lot.  To me that seems stupid

It's always tough to balance the amount of time it takes to earn stuff vs player attention span or willingness to keep grinding - make it too easy, and people complain that they've done all there is to do, make it too difficult, and here we are.  How do you strike that happy medium?  As for the SG leaving, it's pretty much inevitable that folks will get tired and either take a break or leave permanently.  Even when the game was live and there was a full dev team, players burned through content way faster than new stuff was added...

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Also I look at the change in Cosmic.  From leading content nearly every night to grinding the newest content for badges and prismatics to gone.  Old SG.  Literally a ghost town for last 4 months 

 

But that's always happened.  Way back when Excelsior was created there was a big SG called Phoenix Force that were able to put together the first runs of Hami on the server with just their members.  The leads didn't stick around as long as Cosmic's and when that happens with no one to take the bull by the horns and constantly organize stuff then people find other avenues to join in on playing.  

 

That Cosmic has been able to maintain activities as long as it had is a testament to the dedicated leadership.  But eventually people move on or take time off.  The culprit is no one thing and specifically not the HM content or anything supposedly gating anyone.  I'd say its the lack of content in such a long time is one thing causing people to take extended breaks more than anything.  

[Snarky]

25 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

But that's always happened.  Way back when Excelsior was created there was a big SG called Phoenix Force that were able to put together the first runs of Hami on the server with just their members.  The leads didn't stick around as long as Cosmic's and when that happens with no one to take the bull by the horns and constantly organize stuff then people find other avenues to join in on playing.  

 

That Cosmic has been able to maintain activities as long as it had is a testament to the dedicated leadership.  But eventually people move on or take time off.  The culprit is no one thing and specifically not the HM content or anything supposedly gating anyone.  I'd say its the lack of content in such a long time is one thing causing people to take extended breaks more than anything.  

That is what perplexes me.  They added new content.  The whole leadership team disappeared soon after.   The only other data I have is I know the whole leadership team are hardcore badgers and therefore ground out the Prismatics for ALL their badge toons.  
 

I wish there had been less “pressure” to run the newest content into the ground.  In my mind I wonder if it was WAY more relaxed to get the Prismatics if Cosmic might still be around and leading events through the new stuff.  Instead of obviously being dead tired of it weeks after it was dropped 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Snarky

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I wish there had been less “pressure” to run the newest content into the ground.

But that "pressure" comes from within, doesn't it?  *YOU* don't "have to" do any of that grinding.  If *YOU* cannot balance *YOUR* desire to obtain some reward NOW, and become burnt out as a result of that overexertion, isn't that due to your undoing?

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

But that "pressure" comes from within, doesn't it?  *YOU* don't "have to" do any of that grinding.  If *YOU* cannot balance *YOUR* desire to obtain some reward NOW, and become burnt out as a result of that overexertion, isn't that due to your undoing?

with badgers.... if you say there is a badge for doing 50 synapse in a one week window....they will get that badge.   

 

but that is what this whole thread is about.  isn't it?

[biostem]

Just now, Snarky said:

with badgers.... if you say there is a badge for doing 50 synapse in a one week window....they will get that badge.   

 

but that is what this whole thread is about.  isn't it?

Sure, but if it's a "you" issue and not a "game" issue, then it's on you to make the change, if that behavior is becoming detrimental...

[FupDup]

Sometimes you gotta learn to let go of certain things in games like this. Being an ardent completionist is gonna burn you out hard and fast. It's one of those situations where the winning move is not to play (or in this case, not pursue every badge/costume/etc). It'll take a huge burden off your shoulders. 

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Sometimes you gotta learn to let go of certain things in games like this. Being an ardent completionist is gonna burn you out hard and fast. It's one of those situations where the winning move is not to play (or in this case, not pursue every badge/costume/etc). It'll take a huge burden off your shoulders. 

and i dont.  my biggest badger is 1450.  my current "main" dark dark corr i plan to run all year (started dec 27 to get the damned grindy presents lol) is 1060 there are badges on him i am unsure how i will get, like some of the RV badges   if it happens it happens.  But my friends in Cosmic were maniacs.  At least one was a RL badger, a danged Eagle Scout lol.  Now maybe they would have moved on anyways.  Maybe they had been planning it for a year.  But the timing was real precise.  the new badges/content dropped.  they badged like meth addicts.  then left.

[Coyotedancer]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

I find it a strange coincidence that right agter everyone in Cosmic Council farmed theirs….they all left.  And they show no signs of coming back.  

 

For whatever it's worth.... I think I've spent a grand total of maybe an hour or two playing since the end of October. When I got enough Ethers to buy Snickerdoodles her MiniMe "tiny cat" costume thingie. 

 

Am I pretty much a burnout? Yeah.

Was farming the Motel of Murder for days to get the badges to get the PAPs required the last straw that put me there? Hard to say, but I doubt it helped any. As cute as that MiniMe for the cat turned out to be, it was a pain. 😝

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Coyotedancer

[Ruin Mage]

Grinding your brains out for the NPC costumes is basically doing it (burn out) to yourself.

I say as someone who occasionally spams 4-star ASF and 3-4 Star ITF.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

That is what perplexes me.  They added new content.  The whole leadership team disappeared soon after.   The only other data I have is I know the whole leadership team are hardcore badgers and therefore ground out the Prismatics for ALL their badge toons.  
 

I wish there had been less “pressure” to run the newest content into the ground.  In my mind I wonder if it was WAY more relaxed to get the Prismatics if Cosmic might still be around and leading events through the new stuff.  Instead of obviously being dead tired of it weeks after it was dropped 

They locked a rp/casual fooling around thing behind hardcore content. Dont bother trying to get them on under lvl 50/incarnate toons. I leveled toons by running tf's. cant do that anymore if you want to get the good rewards, wst only drops prismatics for 50/incarnates. No, you dont need them. but then you dont even need the game it turns out.

[Frunobulax]

There is stuff going on with lots of people and this isn't the place for that at all, unless they feel like chiming in themselves, imo. Some good, some bad, some crazy, lots of new games as well, that's life.

 

I can't speak for anybody else and I like to listen to music when I play so I ignore discord whenever possible and go on work-related break for months at a time so I do miss out on a lot, but as far as I can tell the general consensus is that people are grateful for the new stuff.

 

I sure am, all I really care about is fighting enemies that live long enough for everybody to actually use their stuff and be useful and we can all go full ham and chase digits without taking gameplay away from anybody else, that's what's fun and interesting to me.

 

I play when I feel like mechanically engaging in the combat (ok mostly the movement) of this game and no shiny can entice me if I'm not in the mood, nor can any grind deter me when I am.

 

I have no idea how many badges I have, I'm sure it's a disturbing number spread out across a mentally ill amount of characters.

 

 

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

That is what perplexes me.  They added new content.  The whole leadership team disappeared soon after.   The only other data I have is I know the whole leadership team are hardcore badgers and therefore ground out the Prismatics for ALL their badge toons.  
 

I wish there had been less “pressure” to run the newest content into the ground.  In my mind I wonder if it was WAY more relaxed to get the Prismatics if Cosmic might still be around and leading events through the new stuff.  Instead of obviously being dead tired of it weeks after it was dropped 

 

 

It's how most games go. Same with TV, same with anything you love.

 

People immerse themselves in the goodness for a long time. How long depends on various factors - if it's a TV series, as an example, they can be dedicated to it for the first four seasons but if season five delivers a steaming turd, no matter how good six and seven are it won't bring 'em back

 

Sometimes you do what you do, then you did it and mission accomplished. You played that to your personal conclusion and away you go.

 

Kinda like wives.

[nihilii]

At 3M ~ 3M5 per prismatic on the market you could run whatever content you want (at lvl 50) and earn them at a decent pace. Let's say you make 20M inf per hour, that's 5-6 prismatic.

Which makes a standard costume in 2 hours of generic play. A rare costume in 20 hours of play. Then the ultra rare tiers in 50 hours and 300 hours... Ok, now these are getting in excessive territory and you'd definitely want to do something more optimal than baseline 20M/inf hour.

It seems to me for most costumes, the pace is reasonable. As the price that's relevant 90%+ of the time is 10 prismatics. Playing a couple hours to get a fun new cool costume sounds about right, it's a good side objective.

I understand the difference in game design specifically with the previous pattern of getting everything. At the same time, we could instead look at all the things we previously got for free - they're still there, for free. Those new costumes are an optional new system on top, which we can use or ignore.

It's true this sucks for the compulsive-completionist types who need to have it all and need to have it now. Always a difficult balance there: do you deprive the rest of the playerbase of super longtail progression goals, or do you make the game a grind for those completionists?

[Ironblade]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

I semi seriously badge.  I collected all prismatics I received on all toons from the time they came out onto one toon a week ago.  I was able to afford the badges.  Barely.  And, again, I play a lot.  To me that seems stupid

Well, during the Halloween event, I got the five new badges (and accompanying Aether) on every 50 I had (on every shard) and a few non-50's - about 30 characters total.

I got all the badges pretty quick, but also kept collecting them so I could get the mini costume for my main.

 

I don't think the requirement for the badges was outrageous (as long as you only have one badger) but the dopey costume items seem overpriced.  To me, some of the most expensive ones are the stupidest-looking and I have not seen ANYONE using them.  Unlike the mini costume, which seems pretty popular.

 

So, overall, these badges didn't seem too bad to me since I would have gotten them inevitably anyway since I run the weeklies a lot (for the Notices).  Here it is mid March and I've done 70 task forces or trials - so averaging about one per day.

[Mjolnerd]

I get wanting to just have everything unlocked, to remove the "grind" aspect and reduce time sinks since HC isn't chasing subscription dollars and doesn't need to pad the length of things like NC/Cryptic/Paragon did.

 

I also get wanting to give players goals, things to work toward so they have a reason to keep coming back day after day, week after week, month after month, if nothing else to keep the servers populated and give players other players to team with.

 

The trick is balancing the two. Personally, I think there's been some... over-zealousness on both ends. A lot of the things that are easy are a bit too easy (remember when you had to run different content to get different kinds of Incarnate XP, so people did all of the different iTrials available instead of just BAF, BAF, BAF BAF BAF, BAF BAF BAF BAF BAF and maybe if there's time afterward also a BAF or two?). The things that are a grind are a bit too much of a grind (Prismatic Aether Particles). None of that is a deal-breaker for me, but it's all stuff that could be improved.

 

Really, I think my main issue with PAPs is that we already have about six thousand different kinds of currencies in this game, some of which have people actively asking for new things to spend them on -- could this functionality not have just been a new thing we did with Incarnate threads instead of yet another altogether new kind of salvage to manage?

[Astralock]

10 minutes ago, Mjolnerd said:

Really, I think my main issue with PAPs is that we already have about six thousand different kinds of currencies in this game, some of which have people actively asking for new things to spend them on -- could this functionality not have just been a new thing we did with Incarnate threads instead of yet another altogether new kind of salvage to manage?

 

No, because the costumes are intentionally meant to be something new for people to grind for, for those who like to have long-term goals to strive for, since everything else is pretty much given to you now - even Incarnate abilities.  Not much grinding nor long-term goals to strive for if the costumes were available for INF or reward merits that you can just snatch up the day they released since there are quite a few people with tons of INF, reward merits, or both stored up.  Same reason every online game periodically adds new currencies.  You don't want the new shiny or new shinies all bought up in a day.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Astralock

[FupDup]

Just now, Astralock said:

 

No, because the costumes are intentionally meant to be something new for people to grind for, for those who like to have long-term goals to strive for, since everything else is pretty much given to you now - even Incarnate abilities.  Not much grinding nor long-term goals to strive for if the costumes were available for INF or reward merits that you can just snatch up the day they released since there are quite a few people with tons of INF, reward merits, or both stored up.

That line of reasoning would make sense if PAPs couldn't be purchased off the auction house for inf...

 

...But they can, which means people with tons of inf can in fact just dump a bunch of cash into it if they don't feel like farming them the "organic" way. 

[Astralock]

1 minute ago, FupDup said:

That line of reasoning would make sense if PAPs couldn't be purchased off the auction house for inf...

 

...But they can, which means people with tons of inf can in fact just dump a bunch of cash into it if they don't feel like farming them the "organic" way. 

 

Not the day of release, they couldn't.

[Glacier Peak]

Snarky has a great perspective. I understand it. I'm also a badger myself - only difference I have between the folks with all the badges and my current 1500+ main is I play until I feel like I've played enough. Burnout is real, and I'm happy to have had this game back and being run by a fantastic team. The past four years have shown me I can take a break and come back to the same great community. And there is usually more badges or some character concept I want to try by then.