Complete Do Over

[hakurr]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Well, I was trying to get a reply from the OP @hakurr, but maybe you are them on a different account.

I have been sitting back watching everyone go on this huge tangent really it was just a suggestion did not realize it would get so many peoples panties in a bunch!!! 

[UltraAlt]

22 hours ago, hakurr said:

I have been sitting back watching everyone go on this huge tangent really it was just a suggestion did not realize it would get so many peoples panties in a bunch!!! 

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean by a "do over".

You don't seem to give clear details about what you mean by the term.

 

I guess your reply means I really shouldn't care, so I'll take that advice.

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean by a "do over".

You don't seem to give clear details about what you mean by the term.

It's pretty clear from the OP — they want to be able to level a character to 50, then do a 'super respec' that lets them junk their current powersets and pick new ones as part of the respec. Level a Fire/Fire blaster to 50, then use a super respec to switch them to being an Ice/Martial blaster.

[Arc-Mage]

I understand the want, but trying out toons is part of the game. I myself have three or four toons unslotted and parked in the back of my toon selection screen in hopes someday the Devs get back to fixing what is wrong with them. 
 

Even in comics there is a place for crappy superheroes. Maybe that toon you created is one of them?

[Rigged]

This has been requested since the dawn of the game. The voices amplified dramatically every time there was a major nerf, especially the first City of Blasters nerf. It has never been seriously considered, and one of the reasons actually is that it might be technically very difficult to implement. Whether an AT/Powerset respec should be available is controversial, but the debate is rather quashed by the very real possibility that it might simply can't be available.

 

The Live devs actually discussed this I think, looooong ago. Basically your character's AT and powersets are supposedly kind of really hard to edit without possibly causing a major issue.

 

I understand how this sounds weird, but an interesting parallel is a case in Red Dead Online where a GM tried to solve a player's problem by deleting their knife and re-granting it. But this bugged out their character in a way that was impossible to fix: all interactions with the knife (skinning animals, etc) were disabled even though they had one in inventory. The case was escalated through CS and even the devs looked at it, only for them all to say "We're not even sure how to fix it".

 

Knowing this, however, the COH devs provided a whole bunch of compromises, including the normal power respec and the ability to respec your body shape and gender. Basically you can now respec almost everything that they can allow you to, from a technical perspective.

 

As suggested, there are some workarounds we, the community, have to prevent the case you are discussing. The Test server will let you try out a full build with very little time investment. You can powerlevel a new character. Or in the worst case scenario, you can re-level and experience the magic of the game from scratch.

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:21 PM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

id like to at least switch origins, my idea for a character changed completely by the time i got to 50.....characters evolve. the origin might have been science but character evolved into magic 😞

 

Why not just remake the character as you'd like it and swap the name from the 50 to the new one? Then you have a 50 which you can use and develop your new toon as you like

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

5 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Why not just remake the character as you'd like it and swap the name from the 50 to the new one? Then you have a 50 which you can use and develop your new toon as you like

 

well see lots of love went into the char already. 

 

Wrote a bio  = Copy/paste

10 perfect costumes  = Save/load

10 Unique macros for various purposes = Copy/paste

An unknown amount of binds for Qol = Save/load

Level the char to 50

respec

transfer IO's

resetup color schemes/window sizes/and power tray placement

 

Is a lot more work than fun comparatively speaking compared to doing a chain of quests to retcon your own origins

[Wavicle]

There are 1000 character slots per server.

Do it over.

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

well see lots of love went into the char already. 

 

Wrote a bio  = Copy/paste

10 perfect costumes  = Save/load

10 Unique macros for various purposes = Copy/paste

An unknown amount of binds for Qol = Save/load

Level the char to 50

respec

transfer IO's

resetup color schemes/window sizes/and power tray placement

 

Is a lot more work than fun comparatively speaking compared to doing a chain of quests to retcon your own origins

I mostly get what you are saying. Mostly. I need to point out that commonly used macros and binds can be stored in a word processor file of any kind to simplify the process, just tweak the character as needed. Saving and loading costumes isn't anything at all, the game does all the work other than clicking the buttons for you.

 

Where you lose me at is the level to 50 and respec. You plan your characters to require a respec when you hit level 50?! Like, that is an intentional thing you do with your characters?!

 

And as has already been pointed out in the thread: origins, ATs, and power sets are locked in the character. If this has changed, an announcement from the devs would be appreciated.

 

(Also, just because your character starts doing things differently doesn't change how and why your character first came into being with their starting abilities. You started out as a science origin character and picked up magic along the way? Just like the super strength character that finds and starts using a sword, you're still a science-oriented character. The science-granted abilities you had didn't just go away, you can just also use magic now. Unless the magic completely transformed you into something/someone else. In which case you are a new character, so make a new character. You started out as a technology origin character and you suddenly pick up a mutation? If you still use the technology you started with, then you are still a technology origin character, you just now also have one or more mutant powers to help as well. If you abandoned the technology you used? It is still there, ready and waiting for you to go back and use it. It didn't suddenly just disappear because you now prefer to use your new mutations. If you lost access to your technology? Then you are a new character, so make a new character.)

Edited March 28, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove mispelled "chaning" and replace the comma in "thread," with a colon. Edited again to remove unnecesary "to" and add missing "r" to "your".

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

well see lots of love went into the char already. 

 

Wrote a bio  = Copy/paste

10 perfect costumes  = Save/load

10 Unique macros for various purposes = Copy/paste

An unknown amount of binds for Qol = Save/load

Level the char to 50

respec

transfer IO's

resetup color schemes/window sizes/and power tray placement

 

Is a lot more work than fun comparatively speaking compared to doing a chain of quests to retcon your own origins

 

 

You can do two things: You can see it as a chore, which, from what I've read in this thread is your current perception - or perhaps you can see it as a golden opportunity.

 

It could be a new facet of the same person, or perhaps their Praetorian counterpart - some kind of weird doppelgänger - or perhaps an alien mimic that has usurped your original character's identity.

 

Sure, you probably think you've finished that character, but if you do, then what do you do next? If you're like most players you'll roll another toon and play that through to its logical conclusion, then to bring it out on high days and holidays. So all you are literally doing is playing another toon and then making a bio, costumes and stuff you likely do for many of your characters.

 

I'm afraid all I'm seeing here is "I want therefore I should have" levels of entitlement rather than working within some very easily overcome restrictions that do you no real harm whatsoever.

[Captain Fabulous]

I don't really understand the hate for this idea. It's simply a matter of convenience and time-saving. Not every character is powerleveled to 50, and not everyone wants to do that. If I've invested a decent amount of time and energy playing a character to the late 30s or early 40s and realize they're just not that fun to play (and I have one of those right now), the ability to swap out a powerset saves me a lot of time and energy in remaking, swapping gear, and replaying back to the same level.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Where you lose me at is the level to 50 and respec. You plan your characters to require a respec when you hit level 50?! Like, that is an intentional thing you do with your characters?!

From what I've seen with a lot of the builds people post on the forums, it appears so, judging from the number of builds that appear to have been built around "How do I slot this character for maximum effectiveness, presupposing that I have access to a transfinite pool of whatever enhancements I want, irrespective of cost?" In many cases, the 'leveling build' that is used to get a character to 50 is not the build that the character will use once they're at 50, and it's often more cost-effective to burn a respec at 50, rearrange the power slots to their final configuration, and recover any enhancements that aren't going to be used in the final build for use by other characters than it is to build the character out to the final slot allocation as you level, then get enough unslotters to get back the enhancements for the powers you're going to be putting purple sets into.

[Rudra]

26 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I don't really understand the hate for this idea. It's simply a matter of convenience and time-saving. Not every character is powerleveled to 50, and not everyone wants to do that. If I've invested a decent amount of time and energy playing a character to the late 30s or early 40s and realize they're just not that fun to play (and I have one of those right now), the ability to swap out a powerset saves me a lot of time and energy in remaking, swapping gear, and replaying back to the same level.

Aside from the comments already posted in response? There is the consideration, which has also been posted in this thread, that the request is likely not even possible.

[megaericzero]

22 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

If I've invested a decent amount of time and energy playing a character to the late 30s or early 40s and realize they're just not that fun to play (and I have one of those right now), the ability to swap out a powerset saves me a lot of time and energy in remaking, swapping gear, and replaying back to the same level.

 

How do you know that you'll like the set you're switching to any better?

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

 

How do you know that you'll like the set you're switching to any better?

There's a point I hadn't thought of. Which brings us back to the test server. If you want to avoid the situation of having a character you don't find fun, make it on the test server and auto-level up to test it. It doesn't even need the bio or character costume/design. Just run default character from the creator with your chosen power sets at your chosen level and give it a go. No fun? You invested nothing in it other than the time it took to use the test server's tools.

[Captain Fabulous]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Aside from the comments already posted in response? There is the consideration, which has also been posted in this thread, that the request is likely not even possible.

The already-posted comments are all of the same theme, "just make a new character", which isn't always an ideal solution. I have yet to see anyone present a cogent reason as to why it would be a straight up bad idea, in that it would have some kind of drastic negative impact on the game.

I don't recall the original devs ever saying it wasn't possible. What I do remember them saying is it wasn't something they were interested in doing because they had a vested financial interest in people making new characters and playing them. This is no longer the case.

 

20 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

 

How do you know that you'll like the set you're switching to any better?

You don't. But IMO if this becomes an option it shouldn't be limited to a one time deal, and as such one could theoretically do it as many times as you like, provided you have the resources to obtain the necessary token to do so.

[Rudra]

51 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

The already-posted comments are all of the same theme, "just make a new character", which isn't always an ideal solution. I have yet to see anyone present a cogent reason as to why it would be a straight up bad idea, in that it would have some kind of drastic negative impact on the game.

Well, that is the gist of what the OP is asking for. And as has been stated in several responses, there are options available to players for making sure the character they intend is going to be fun. If those players don't want to make use of the already available options? That's on them.

[Captain Fabulous]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Well, that is the gist of what the OP is asking for. And as has been stated in several responses, there are options available to players for making sure the character they intend is going to be fun. If those players don't want to make use of the already available options? That's on them.

The available options are insufficient. If they weren't there would be no need to ask for one that is.

[Rudra]

So the option to completely avoid the need for a late development respec into completely new power sets on your character at no cost to the player or character, is insufficient? And yes, it would be no cost because you can make a level 50 character on the test server and slot that character with full IOs. And if you are inclined to argue that time is also a resource, then I would also point out that the time involved is also a requirement for playing the character to level 50 before finding out you don't like it. And you spend less time on the test server getting to that point to find out.

 

Do you have any idea how ludicrous that sounds? The option to prevent being in a situation where you have a high level character that you don't enjoy is available, but it is not sufficient? Because why? You don't want to use the test server?

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Captain Fabulous said:

The available options are insufficient. If they weren't there would be no need to ask for one that is.

 

The available options are perfectly sufficient. People do them all the time - and are even less restricted now with 1000 slots. This is a want, not a need.   (Which is not, before you jump all over this, denigrating the idea. Saying "I want" or "this would be nice" is perfectly fine, and part of the purpose of this section of the forum. But portraying this as any sort of need or thing to be fixed... no. Also, saying "I don't want to do that" does not mean the options available are insufficient. It just means (generic) you don't want to do that.)

[Captain Fabulous]

18 hours ago, Rudra said:

So the option to completely avoid the need for a late development respec into completely new power sets on your character at no cost to the player or character, is insufficient? And yes, it would be no cost because you can make a level 50 character on the test server and slot that character with full IOs. And if you are inclined to argue that time is also a resource, then I would also point out that the time involved is also a requirement for playing the character to level 50 before finding out you don't like it. And you spend less time on the test server getting to that point to find out.

 

Do you have any idea how ludicrous that sounds? The option to prevent being in a situation where you have a high level character that you don't enjoy is available, but it is not sufficient? Because why? You don't want to use the test server?

Using the test server assumes you believe that a character may not be fun to play before you actually play it. This simply does not happen in most cases. People don't seek out playing sub-par sets. It's something you discover AFTER you've already invested time and energy. It's a nonsense solution.

As usual you make a myriad of assumptions and engage in multiple fallacious argument to prove a point which simply does not exist. Do me a favor. NEVER respond to anything I post. Ever. I will no longer engage you. It's a waste of my time. Consider yourself ignored.

 

16 hours ago, Greycat said:

The available options are perfectly sufficient. People do them all the time - and are even less restricted now with 1000 slots. This is a want, not a need.   (Which is not, before you jump all over this, denigrating the idea. Saying "I want" or "this would be nice" is perfectly fine, and part of the purpose of this section of the forum. But portraying this as any sort of need or thing to be fixed... no. Also, saying "I don't want to do that" does not mean the options available are insufficient. It just means (generic) you don't want to do that.)

I never said it was a need. All I said is that I didn't understand why people were against it because none of the options offered were a viable fix for the problem presented. It's like arguing we shouldn't have respecs of any kind. I mean, with 1000 slots you can just remake a character from scratch if you have a build you don't like, right? Or hop on the test server and make them there to ensure you get it right before making them on live. So can I assume then you're in favor of removing respecs altogether? Cause it sounds like you are. I mean, we don't really "need" them, do we? Just make a new character and powerlevel them to 50 with the build you want. Problem solved. 👍
 

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Using the test server assumes you believe that a character may not be fun to play before you actually play it. This simply does not happen in most cases. People don't seek out playing sub-par sets. It's something you discover AFTER you've already invested time and energy. It's a nonsense solution.

As usual you make a myriad of assumptions and engage in multiple fallacious argument to prove a point which simply does not exist. Do me a favor. NEVER respond to anything I post. Ever. I will no longer engage you. It's a waste of my time. Consider yourself ignored.

 

I never said it was a need. All I said is that I didn't understand why people were against it because none of the options offered were a viable fix for the problem presented. It's like arguing we shouldn't have respecs of any kind. I mean, with 1000 slots you can just remake a character from scratch if you have a build you don't like, right? Or hop on the test server and make them there to ensure you get it right before making them on live. So can I assume then you're in favor of removing respecs altogether? Cause it sounds like you are. I mean, we don't really "need" them, do we? Just make a new character and powerlevel them to 50 with the build you want. Problem solved. 👍
 

OP argument: player made a character, got the character to 50, found out does not like the character after 50 levels. People don't seek out playing 'sub-par sets', which none of the power sets really are depending on play style, and wasn't even part of the discussion since the discussion was about a character being not fun to play after 50 levels, but obviously players still find characters they design to not be that fun. A ready solution to avoid being in that position exists in the test server where you can make that character, immediately jump to level 50, immediately slot that character with enhancements for free, and so see if the planned character will be as fun as imagined. It has nothing to do with planning to have a character you don't enjoy. It instead has everything to do with test driving the character for fun.

 

Your argument is as broken as ever. Avoid me if you want. Ignore me if you want. I'm going to call bullshit every time I see it.

 

Edit: Also, by saying the ability to avoid being in a position where after playing a character for 50 levels by being able to play the character immediately at level 50 is an insufficient fix and a new fix is required, you are indeed claiming the complete rebuild of the character to include power sets, and in your request, origin as well, is a need. By claiming the already available option is not sufficient so a new one is needed, you are claiming there is a need. @Greycat's comment is correct.

 

From you:
The available options are insufficient. If they weren't there would be no need to ask for one that is.

 

There's that word. "Need". You say it is needed. Instead of something like "Yes, the test server is available, but I would like added options to deal with this" which would have not proclaimed the OP to be a need. See the difference? You presented it as a need instead of a desire. And we already have the means of completely avoiding being in that situation, so it is not a need.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove unnecessary "t" and space.

[Luminara]

17 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Using the test server assumes you believe that a character may not be fun to play before you actually play it.

 

People use the test server to determine whether a character is viable, according to their individual definition of viability, not because they're assuming that it won't be and need to prove it.  That includes whether or not it's "fun".

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 3/17/2023 at 7:29 PM, hakurr said:

Have you ever ran a character up to 50 found it does not meet you expectations i me it was doing ok and you just thought well it will get there when i hit 50. well it didn't now you are frustrated and put him on the shelf and either start all over with a new character or take a break from playing all together. this is were a complete do over could save your frustration at least some of it.

 

i would like to see a complete do over option this can be a 1 time thing account wide that every one gets or it can be tied to a chain of missions that when completed you get i like the 1 time account wide that way it is a very cautious thing to use but if it was tied to mission ark i guess you would  get a lot of people doing that ark. ok now what the complete do over is just a super respec it would get you the ability in your arch type to choose what primary and secondary pool you get all over so if you was a willpower/staff tanker at level 50 you would have to still be a tanker but you could now be a shield/electric at level 1.  i would also make the requirement that lvl 50 is needed to use this (this way you at least gave it a try to get the character up in levels and enjoy it. 

 

Wish granted!

[Captain Fabulous]

49 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

People use the test server to determine whether a character is viable, according to their individual definition of viability, not because they're assuming that it won't be and need to prove it.  That includes whether or not it's "fun".

How does one test a support character when there aren't a sufficient number of people to form a large team and who are willing to run extended missions with you? Unless you only want to assess solo performance. While I'm sure some people do this, test server population numbers indicate this is not likely the norm. Either way I don't think it's something most people are going (or should have) to do before making a new character.