Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[Booper]

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Booper said:

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always).

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

40s fixed recharge and 1 minute duration?

[Wavicle]

Yes, I’ll take it. Or at least I’d like to try it.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Wavicle

[SeraphimKensai]

6 minutes ago, Booper said:

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

A fixed 30 sounds better than a 40, but maybe that's just me. It seems like an interesting compromise though.

[Sovera]

18 minutes ago, Booper said:

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

 

So we're saying that 28-30 seconds recharge for a linchpin power is too long even for normal casual teams, and the offer we get is bumping it to 40 seconds?

 

As I would say to anyone else who would suggest it, not sure if trolling.

 

 

No, of course not. And I will be completely honest here that this offer smells of that 'see how bad we can make it? Doesn't this make the previous offer more appealing?' which worked 100%. Yes, keep it as it is if the other option is making it even worse.

 

 

We are in a focused thread, a majority (we may need a poll to clear doubts on if it is indeed a majority) points out en masse a flaw of the set but we get a no, this is not the feedback we want. Honestly I'll drop out of this and may whatever come out be palatable unlike the effort at balancing the new pool powers so much they turned into unpicked powers.

[FupDup]

38 minutes ago, Booper said:

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

That's a buff for early to mid game but a nerf for a fully built character (fully built will get it to 30 seconds or less depending on how much global recharge they've got). So that's probably not gonna fly. 

 

Can there be a halfway sort of thing where only a certain portion of the recharge accepts enhancement? I know there are some other powers that are half-enhanceable like that but I don't remember if they did it with recharge or some other attribute. Whatever happens, a fully built character should be able to get it to around 30 seconds or shorter. Any compromise that nerfs a full build isn't worth having. 

 

And also, how about my idea of letting people control it like a MM pet?

Edited April 12, 2023 by FupDup

[Frosticus]

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Or just have it not move at all with a shorter recharge like glue arrow. This is immensely important especially when pairing it with any other location power such as tar pit, glue arrow, caltrops, ice patch, etc. Plus it goes you more control on where the field of play is, as it let's you use the code code keep them there, when it moves around you can never tell/be sure when it's going to do that or not. It needs to be a fixed location, rech sooner, and cast faster/cost less end.

Personally I like that it can move. Some fights are entirely static kill zones, but some aren't. The movement gives a bit more versatility and helps in some scenarios such as an ambush rounding the corner. 

 

However, I want to be more in control of when it moves. People liken this power to carrion creepers, but I see them as fundamentally different in that I unleash the creepers (which fits visually and given how the power functions relative to enemies and enemy defeats), whereas I summon and command the storm cell (which fits visually and how the power interacts based on my actions). I don't expect everyone to see it that way of course. 

 

The base rech/duration seems fine to me. It is an attrition set and as such will feel as useful as other attrition sets when playing with front loaded damage dealers.

[Wavicle]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

So we're saying that 28-30 seconds recharge for a linchpin power is too long even for normal casual teams, and the offer we get is bumping it to 40 seconds?

 

As I would say to anyone else who would suggest it, not sure if trolling.

 

 

No, of course not. And I will be completely honest here that this offer smells of that 'see how bad we can make it? Doesn't this make the previous offer more appealing?' which worked 100%. Yes, keep it as it is if the other option is making it even worse.

 

 

We are in a focused thread, a majority (we may need a poll to clear doubts on if it is indeed a majority) points out en masse a flaw of the set but we get a no, this is not the feedback we want. Honestly I'll drop out of this and may whatever come out be palatable unlike the effort at balancing the new pool powers so much they turned into unpicked powers.

 

I think the idea is this normalizes performance across levels so the power requires no investment for 100% uptime. But you're right, the change doesn't help on very fast moving teams.

[ScarySai]

57 minutes ago, Booper said:

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

 

Please don't beanbag storm cell.

 

This doesn't address the complaints of the people whining about it here, and makes the power relocation more of a struggle for anyone playing past level 10.

 

How did this idea even leave the drawing board? It makes the set worse.

Edited April 12, 2023 by ScarySai

[UltraAlt]

46 minutes ago, Booper said:

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

 

I can't currently give a thumbs up or thumbs down on this.

 

I really think that it Storm Cell works more like a buff pet rather than an actual pet, so I don't really see the need for it to be up all the time. More like an "Oh, $#@%!" power or one to caste like a buff as you are going against more difficult foes (as I have indicated ...like domination. Not really meant to be active at al times)

In another way, I find it akin to carrion creepers that can't be kept active all the time.

 

If the recharge enhancements are removed, does that mean that it is also immune to hasten, LOTG: +recharges speed, Speed boost, etc.?

I haven't tested it, but I think if you 3 slot Storm Front with recharges, 3 slot Hasten with recharge, and load up some LOTG: + recharge, you're going to be pretty close to perma. I don't have time to test this now.

 

40s recharge with 60s duration essentially means that it will always be active. If the DEVs are going to go that route, I would suggest making it a toggle with end use per sec versus caste. This would mean that it would spawn on the character and follow them at the current rate at which it follows versus forming at a targeted location. (If I am correctly understanding how the power is operating currently, most of the time that is how it operates. That is to say once it is caste, it stays where it is until the foes are defeated in its radius and then it follows the character for the remaining part of it's duration).

 

I don't see a need for it to be active at all times for the set to be enjoyable. I'm fine with it as it is.

If you have more than one Storm Blast on the team, I'm assuming each character's Storm Front is usable by the others and whatever duration period for one players Storm Front could be filled by another's. 

[ScarySai]

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

If the recharge enhancements are removed, does that mean that it is also immune to hasten, LOTG: +recharges speed, Speed boost, etc.?

That is their current plan, yes.

 

It is also why I think it is a godawful change. So you don't solve the problem, and make it worse for people who invest in their character, this helps how, exactly?

[Frosticus]

I've played around with this set a lot more now. I think this set shines brightest on corruptors and sentinels (aside from the laughably short range of storm cell).

 

Corruptors are backloaded damage dealers and the way this set ramps up as the fight goes on + scourge, causes the damage to crescendo in a very satisfying manner.

I think I'll play a storm/kinetics/psy

Sentinels are hardy enough to not really care that they can't delete half the spawn in the alpha and the synergy between storm cell + category 5 (on the way faster sentinel recharge) is really fun.

 

I tried a storm/em blaster (for boost range as I find storm cells base range too short unless I proceed very cautiously). It wasn't clicking for me because blasters sort of need to be able to kill off part of the spawn immediately and/or have a lot more utility (ie sonic blast, dark blast, or water blast) if they are going to kill slowly. That said, I hope it is very popular because crashless blaster nukes are one of the most detrimental changes made to this game. Cat 5 not deleting entire spawns in the blink of an eye will be great for everyone else wanting to have fun on the team. 

 

The set isn't perfect - cloud burst needs more impact. Chain lightning animation leaves a lot to be desired and storm cell could be tweaked to be improved slightly (but unlikely to find a way that satisfies the majority).

Aside from that it is fun, visually impressive and extremely thematic.

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

I tried a storm/em blaster (for boost range as I find storm cells base range too short unless I proceed very cautiously). It wasn't clicking for me because blasters sort of need to be able to kill off part of the spawn immediately and/or have a lot more utility (ie sonic blast, dark blast, or water blast) if they are going to kill slowly. That said, I hope it is very popular because crashless blaster nukes are one of the most detrimental changes made to this game. Cat 5 not deleting entire spawns in the blink of an eye will be great for everyone else wanting to have fun on the team. 

 

I mostly agree with this with caveats. I tried several blaster combinations. I was able to make it work on sets where I could control the battlefield, such as /Dev, /TA, or /Ice, but I had more trouble with /EM.

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Wavicle]

After reading other comments, while I'd still be interested in testing out this proposed version, I think the real solution to people's complaints is not to alter the recharge at all from where it currently is, but instead to make the pet better at keeping up with you.

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Lazarillo]

1 hour ago, Booper said:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

I don't see how this would fix the problem that it's not up every fight.  Right now, Storm Blast is basically "fine" when Storm Cell is up and in place, and far too limited when it's not.  The set should not have to pay a penalty in downtime to be "fine" the rest of the time.

  

1 hour ago, Booper said:

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

True, Faraday Cage is a very nice power that Electric Affinity is worth taking almost for that, alone, though EA makes due pretty well even without it.

...while Storm Cell is literally the power that all of Storm Blast's performance is built around.

 

The set as a whole needs to be buffed, and needs to have its intensely team-unfriendly repel removed, if it can't rely on its keystone power.  Just flat out.
If the intent is to make Storm Blast a gimmick set for people to make "proc it and git gud" posts about, then feel free to disregard this, I guess.  My opinion doesn't really matter in that case anyway, since I'm just a peon, and I'll avoid it.  But if the intent is to make a set that's fun for regular play, and doesn't tick off people on teams who aren't dealing with it too, then it needs to be...properly configured.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I see where the issue between us players is coming from, at least from my end, it's the use of the wording. Hopefully I can a little better explain what I mean.

 

I honestly hate having to just say "trust me bro" when it comes to Storm Cell just playing way worse with a shorter duration and recharge... Like, it barely lasted through one spawn worse.

 

As to its current iteration, when I say it can easily be made perma (while leveling no less), I say that because it means that you can readily cast it before its duration has even fully expired to place it where you want to be for the next group, should you choose to go that route. Because yes, the movement thing, while neat in practice, can be kinda irksome while in practice; it doesn't always go fast enough, and sometimes it doesn't engage with the mobs when you do, making starting a second group a bit difficult. So to somewhat solve this because the devs told us they would not make it function more like Faraday Cage, you can perma the recharge and always have it ready to go.

 

Storm Blast is not meant to be a speedrunning powerset, and I think a lot of people are getting hung up on that idea. If you're on a team moving that fast, skip using it, or bring a different character. And I think it should be okay that we have a powerset that isn't catered to speedrunning. This powerset levels rather nicely, it's great for more prolonged fights, will be super awesome in the MSR bowl. Much like any other powerset, you have to know which tool to use at which time.

[psylum1]

This doesn't look like it will even have the desired effect. Teams tend to move even faster in the late game than they do in the mid,  HM content aside. So making it slower to recharge in the late game makes it even worse.

Edited April 12, 2023 by psylum1

[TygerDarkstorm]

4 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

I don't see how this would fix the problem that it's not up every fight. 

Even while leveling you should be able to have Cell up every fight (thinking of soloing/slower moving teams here, not fast-placed gameplay) if you're willing to invest a little recharge into it.

[Lazarillo]

Just now, TygerDarkstorm said:

Even while leveling you should be able to have Cell up every fight (thinking of soloing/slower moving teams here, not fast-placed gameplay) if you're willing to invest a little recharge into it.

Per my previous experience, with about a 30 second recharge, allowing me to drop it on around three of every four mobs, when solo and moving relatively slowly on large groups.  Storm Cell following me does nothing because I need it in front of me where the enemies are.

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Booper said:

Alright folks, I want to address Storm Cell uptime. It's commonly discussed in here, so I've been thinking on it, collaborated with a few of our developers, and I will pitch an idea. 

 

Looking at the budget, there is something that we can potentially do that will help lower levels but limit uber-builds. So here it is:

What if instead of a 90s cooldown, it gets lowered to 40s, but does not accept recharge buffs (so it's fixed to 40s, always). This would keep the current 60s duration intact.

 

Give me a 👍  or 👎 . Discuss it if you like, may throw it on beta regardless just to see what performance feels like. 

 

And before it gets asked, no...we aren't turning it into Faraday Cage mechanic. They are completely different powers serving completely different purposes. 

I mean, faraday recharges in 15 seconds, and lasts 4 minutes and has a whole slew of things that help the team including mez protection to all, that is wholly difference from a 30s recharge, that lasts 45 or 60 seconds and is immobile or even better tbh 45s rech wit h60s duration. Again, think disruption arrow or glue arrow esque.

 

You're already suggesting pretty much the same thing anyway, so the only difference is losing the ability for it to move on its own as a compromise to not making it immune to recharge which puts the where and when in our own hands.

 

So yeah, take what you said, remove the immunity to  recharge, and thus make the pseudopet immobile, win!

[ScarySai]

33 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

Per my previous experience, with about a 30 second recharge

Ah well fear not, for the solution we came up with is to give you a ten second longer recharge for some reason!

[psylum1]

Ultimately the biggest problems with the set is that it's new and people are still learning how it works. Combine that with the not great visual of storm cell you have a recipe for confusion.

[Lazarillo]

20 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Ah well fear not, for the solution we came up with is to give you a ten second longer recharge for some reason!

Yep, so now Storm could be bad 50% of the time instead of only 25%!