Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[kwsapphire]

23 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I'm OK with the default colors as they are, I just would like to be able to recolor the lightning strikes and wind/rain effects separately. Right now, if you recolor Storm Cell the ground puddles are the primary color while the rain and lightning strikes are the secondary. In Cat 5 the ground effects are the primary color, the lightning is the secondary color, while the funnel cloud is a mix of both.

Hopefully it's something that can be reviewed at some point, even if it's after the set launches.

 

I was responding to the people who said that Storm Summoning (not Storm Blast) looks bad when recolored. I just wanted to provide an alternate opinion so it didn't seem like the player-base is united in this view. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by kwsapphire

[Captain Fabulous]

2 minutes ago, kwsapphire said:

that Storm Summoning (not Storm Blast) looks bad when recolored. I just wanted to provide an alternate opinion so it didn't seem like the player-base is united in this view. 

Lightning Storm doesn't recolor very well. The default colors have a really nice effect in the cloud that's lost when you try to recolor it. The rest of the powers recolor just fine.

[kwsapphire]

Just now, Captain Fabulous said:

Lightning Storm doesn't recolor very well. The default colors have a really nice effect in the cloud that's lost when you try to recolor it. The rest of the powers recolor just fine.

 

For what it's worth, I disagree. I think Lightning Storm still looks really cool recolored. A lot of powers lose subtle but neat looking effects when you recolor them, I accept it as par for the course. I still recolor Lightning Storm (along with the rest of the set) 100% of the time. 😉 Whether or not my opinion matters... *shrug* I at least had to offer it. 

[honoroit]

I tried it on beta, storm / electric affinity (empowering circuit should self stack to give us an alternative to /kin).

 

It's not too slow, was my impression.

 

It works great with scourge.

 

I was only solo, so didn't encounter issues with groups moving past the placed effects.

 

as I'd thought, this will work nicely on sticky mobs, with more hps.  SBB arena springs to mind.  gonna wreck you some minotaurs, ninjas and monkeys.

 

mobs dont seem to care about being in the patch, and didn't (for me) run about all crazy like.

 

honestly, I'm just pissed empowering circuit cant stack.  or make amp up whole party.  bloody /kin.

 

 

[Frosticus]

3 hours ago, Booper said:

Just an early preview of the changes in the works on slotting:

 

Storm Cell:

• Will be able to slot Damage, EndMod, and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor To-Hit debuffs)
• High Winds proc will become Auto-Hit (this is the proc that does Slow and To-Hit debuffs)
  • Adjustments will be made on its debuff effects

This will remove the newb-trap in slotting. With these changes you can feel confident that all of the enhanced attributes slotted into Storm Cell or Category Five will be passed down appropriately to their respective base summon powers as well as their proc'd Lightning.

 

Storm Cell:

Removing the ability to slot the Slow Procs is the right choice. When you were machine gunning attacks over a large group it was spamming high winds and rolling those procs across the entire 16 targets as fast as your attacks can animate and trigger High Winds.  Even though proc chance wasn't very high it was probably  way too good of a return and might have been providing more aoe damage than the lightning strikes in high target situations.

 

Given the auto hit debuffs:

I think base end cost is fine. Seems high at low level and low target saturation, but is decent bang for the buck on teams. In some situations it is astounding value where multiple spawns can congregate. 

 

Base Acc - I think 1.1x (maybe 1.2x) is fine. Yes it will struggle in hardmode for some team compositions,  but there are usually a lot of buffs (like vengence) and debuffs in that environment so it will probably be ok.

Most players aren't solo'ing hardmode above 1 star and that setting doesn't spawn higher con enemies. 

 

Fun Slotting:

Performance shifter - basically makes it a free cast

Force Feeback - probably gonna be popular

Scourging Blast Proc - little heal, basically makes it a free cast

 

Observation:  procs like performance shifter, forcefeeback, etc trigger storm cell and cause aggro if you cast storm cell on a spawn that already has storm cell active them. Not an issue, just interesting. 

 

[ScarySai]

I don't care for the per-target lockout on storm cell. It's not strong enough to really warrant it, especially since you have a 1/3 chance of getting the bolt you actually need, most of the time. Critical mass moments for Storm cell would make it feel powerful, something it currently lacks.

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

I don't care for the per-target lockout on storm cell. It's not strong enough to really warrant it, especially since you have a 1/3 chance of getting the bolt you actually need, most of the time. Critical mass moments for Storm cell would make it feel powerful, something it currently lacks.

I haven't seen any feedback, but has anyone tested out what happens with multiple storm blast characters on a team?

 

If my storm corruptor hits with focused lightning does that mean no other storm blast characters on the team can zap that same target with their storm cell for 4 seconds?

I worry that is the case because all storm casters seem to set the same flag on the target when lightning strikes

Flag - (LightningCell for x seconds)

 

Maybe not a huge deal vs large spawns with lots of targets, but if you had multiple storm blasts users vs an AV you'd only be getting contribution from the equivalent of a single storm cell more or less because a single player can already exceed the lockout timer with their own attacks.

 

Cat 5 on the other hand with a 5 target strike and 5 second lockout I worry could hit the lockout wall very easily with several storm blast characters if they all happened to cast Cat 5.

Flag -(LightningCat5 for 5 seconds)

 

 

 

[Shocktacular]

On 4/20/2023 at 4:41 PM, Booper said:

Pulling in isn't on theme. I looked into it long ago when I was curious on an inverse-repel effect, but hurricanes don't suck things into its vortex. There is upward lifting winds, but objects would be blown up and out, sorta like what the vectored knock is currently doing. 

 

I did stretch the realism a bit by having the knock go somewhat inward while also knocking to the side,  which was done to be somewhat more player friendly. Instead of being thrown out of the hurricane, it will typically knock foes around the hurricane. Unless, of course, you enhance the KB and foes will cross over and out of its radius of effect 

I know I'm really really late to this party, but as a physics major, I just have to comment on this.

While most of the motion of hurricane winds is circular, there is some inward motion, especially near the earth's surface when the hurricane makes landfall (sources:  The National Weather Service https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/tc_structure#:~:text=Cross section of a typical,top in the opposite direction. , the World Meteorological Organization https://public.wmo.int/en/our-mandate/focus-areas/natural-hazards-and-disaster-risk-reduction/tropical-cyclones , and the University of Rhode Island's Graduate School of Oceanography, which includes a very handy diagram http://www.hurricanescience.org/science/science/primarycirculation/#:~:text=Hurricanes%3A Science and Society%3A Primary Circulation&text=In the lower troposphere (near,direction in the Southern Hemisphere. ).

 

The reason for this inward motion is fairly straightforward; the faster a fluid (gas or liquid) moves, the more its pressure decreases (this is Bernoulli's principle).  When the air pressure decreases in one location, air (and other objects) in other locations will move into the low pressure area.  In a cyclonic storm, if the air has any sideways motion at all it will start to spiral inwards.  This sideways/rotational motion will increase as the distance of the air to the center decreases (conservation of angular momentum, like when ice skaters pull their arms in to twirl faster).  This increases the wind speed, which, again, decreases the air pressure, which helps maintain the pressure imbalance that fuels the storm. 

 

If there were no air rushing inward, there would be no hurricanes or tornadoes in the first place.  While it's true that most of the air's motion is circular, there is still some appreciable inward motion.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Shocktacular

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Shocktacular said:

If there were no air rushing inward, there would be no hurricanes or tornadoes in the first place. 

 

[Booper]

10 minutes ago, Shocktacular said:

While most of the motion of hurricane winds is circular, there is some inward motion

Thank you for the info, after rereading my comment I had realized my phrasing was slightly ambiguous. I was referring to a straight pull in, that doesn't happen. The pull is with a lot of radial motion, and that's why the knock is set up to somewhat simulate this, with an inward knock and sideways knock. I'm not against the idea of an inverse repel that also includes radial repel, but so far attempts at doing this in a way that looks good hasn't been successful.

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Booper said:

Thank you for the info, after rereading my comment I had realized my phrasing was slightly ambiguous. I was referring to a straight pull in, that doesn't happen. The pull is with a lot of radial motion, and that's why the knock is set up to somewhat simulate this, with an inward knock and sideways knock. I'm not against the idea of an inverse repel that also includes radial repel, but so far attempts at doing this in a way that looks good hasn't been successful.

If you could figure this out it might give the set the thing it needs to be desirable on teams despite the slow ramp up.

[Captain Fabulous]

From the patch notes:

• FX Corrections to Storm Blast's Lightning powers and Cloudburst.

[Captain Fabulous]

OK, checked the VFX colorization. It's different now, so TYMV @Booper, it's very much appreciated. It's better; now it's the secondary color that affects the cloud/rain effects, while the primary color affects the lightning. But it's still not quite right. It looks like each lightning strike has 2 bolts, a larger primary bolt and a smaller secondary bolt. The large primary bolt is colored by the secondary color -- the same as the cloud/rain, while the primary color only controls the smaller secondary bolt. So if you set the primary to yellow and the secondary to blue you get blue cloud/rain and both blue and yellow lightning. Hopefully it's possible to adjust it further. 👍

[kwsapphire]

9 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I haven't seen any feedback, but has anyone tested out what happens with multiple storm blast characters on a team?

 

If my storm corruptor hits with focused lightning does that mean no other storm blast characters on the team can zap that same target with their storm cell for 4 seconds?

I worry that is the case because all storm casters seem to set the same flag on the target when lightning strikes

Flag - (LightningCell for x seconds)

 

 

I'm curious how multiple storm blasters interact more generally. If I use my storm blasts against a target in someone else's storm cell, will my blasts trigger that cell to proc? Or do my blasts only trigger my own storm cell? 

[Dispari]

12 hours ago, Booper said:

Thank you for the info, after rereading my comment I had realized my phrasing was slightly ambiguous. I was referring to a straight pull in, that doesn't happen. The pull is with a lot of radial motion, and that's why the knock is set up to somewhat simulate this, with an inward knock and sideways knock. I'm not against the idea of an inverse repel that also includes radial repel, but so far attempts at doing this in a way that looks good hasn't been successful.

All I have to say about this twirling rotational repel idea is,

[Puma]

I'd be down for testing with some other storm blast characters in a team up to see how  they interact if anyone wants to try and pick a time and level. 

[Marbing]

18 hours ago, Booper said:

Thank you for the info, after rereading my comment I had realized my phrasing was slightly ambiguous. I was referring to a straight pull in, that doesn't happen. The pull is with a lot of radial motion, and that's why the knock is set up to somewhat simulate this, with an inward knock and sideways knock. I'm not against the idea of an inverse repel that also includes radial repel, but so far attempts at doing this in a way that looks good hasn't been successful.

I think though, on such a small scale, a radial vacuum inward wouldn’t be very observable. It would appear linear with such a small vortex, the radial swirl would only be observable once they reached the wall of that small cyclone. Kind of like a small tornado. But, I don’t know if we really need to be that realistic with this.
 

Though, a vacuum affect toward its center would be a unique and cool addition to a blast set, regardless.

 

I could be wrong @Shocktacular could correct me as the physics person.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Marbing

[WindDemon21]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:49 AM, Booper said:

Slotting will change in the next build (it didn't make today's update). To answer your question, slot Storm Cell with damage. The enhancements from that slotting are what will pass on to your lightning procs. Same goes for Category Five.

 

Just an early preview of the changes in the works on slotting:

 

Storm Cell:

• Will be able to slot Damage, EndMod, and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor To-Hit debuffs)
• High Winds proc will become Auto-Hit (this is the proc that does Slow and To-Hit debuffs)
  • Adjustments will be made on its debuff effects

Category Five:

• Will be able to slot Damage and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor EndMod)
• Both Category Five summoned pets will now take KB sets
  • Adjustments will be made on the debuffs and end drain effects.

 

This will remove the newb-trap in slotting. With these changes you can feel confident that all of the enhanced attributes slotted into Storm Cell or Category Five will be passed down appropriately to their respective base summon powers as well as their proc'd Lightning.

 

This just says "adjsutments" but doesn't state which way, should we assume that since you can no longer enhance these stats that their base values would be bigger than prior?

Edited April 23, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Isulkian]

last stuff that still need changes imo:

 

- End cost of SC, it s really heavy at low lvl

 

-C5 need something more because fights of more than 30 seconds are quite rare. mooving the biggest damage at the beginning, increasing total damage , givinge it something unique (pull effect) would be really appreciated . Even solo, mobs are often all dead before it starts doing proper damage. 

 

-the  consequences of multiple storm blast players on proc of SC are a really significant matter. That coul really bring down the powerset if it doesn t work properlly. Really interested for some infos on that.

 

-Waiting to test the sets changes for SC and C5

 

love the reduce recharge on SC, really much handy for fast pace fight.

[Shocktacular]

3 hours ago, Marbing said:

I think though, on such a small scale, a radial vacuum inward wouldn’t be very observable. It would appear linear with such a small vortex, the radial swirl would only be observable once they reached the wall of that small cyclone. Kind of like a small tornado. But, I don’t know if we really need to be that realistic with this.
 

Though, a vacuum affect toward its center would be a unique and cool addition to a blast set, regardless.

 

I could be wrong @Shocktacular could correct me as the physics person.

You can observe an inward spiral with ordinary dust devils, and they're about as small-scale as these things get.  It's not very strong at that scale, of course, but it's still noticeable.  
Also, super-hero media has always taken some... creative liberties with science.  I was just trying to point out that saying "storms don't really work that way" is not correct, so it's not a reasonable justification for avoiding adding an inward pull effect to storm powers.  (I cannot speak to the coding issues that may hinder or prevent adding such an effect, since that's outside my area of expertise/knowledge, but I do know something about atmospherics and fluid dynamics.)

Edited April 23, 2023 by Shocktacular

[Marbing]

48 minutes ago, Shocktacular said:

You can observe an inward spiral with ordinary dust devils, and they're about as small-scale as these things get.  It's not very strong at that scale, of course, but it's still noticeable.  
Also, super-hero media has always taken some... creative liberties with science.  I was just trying to point out that saying "storms don't really work that way" is not correct, so it's not a reasonable justification for avoiding adding an inward pull effect to storm powers.  (I cannot speak to the coding issues that may hinder or prevent adding such an effect, since that's outside my area of expertise/knowledge, but I do know something about atmospherics and fluid dynamics.)

Oh I know, but that’s as they get closer to the vortex, from my understanding objects farther away don’t alway have an obvious radial pull (especially from the perspective of the object and those nearby), it’s more subtle. Also, take the dust devil example: We observe it from far away, but the perspective of the leaves on the ground just before they begin to spin may be different is all I am saying, it could appear as they they are headed straight in and begin to rotate as they get closer but I digress this is a tad off topic lol.

 

 But yes, you are correct I’m just trying to justify the direct pull in some way. 😂 Also creative liberties and all, it’s a super hero game after all lol, the power doesn’t even affect the caster or allies so, there’s that.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Marbing
Lots of clarification edits.

[Aeolus]

On 4/22/2023 at 9:11 AM, kwsapphire said:

 

Respectfully I disagree. Storm Summoning looks great with custom colors. 

 

(Edit: I know we aren't supposed to provide feedback on feedback but I wanted to make clear that not all are in agreement on this point. Though I doubt Storm Summoning will be tweaked, I'd hate myself if I said nothing and a change was made.)

 

Thank you for the feedback, however as you stated yourself, it's unlikely that the Devs will alter Storm Summoning's coloring (which has pretty much been the same since launch) just 'cos two-or-so people didn't like the way it looked recolored.  Using the recolor option on Storm Summoning and Storm Blast just makes it look bland and flat.  

 

Visual feedback: I still think it'd be best to alter Storm Blast's lightning bolts to yellow rather than blue.  It is possible to recolor Direct Strike and Chain Lightning to visually match Storm Summoning's Thunder Storm.  However, the lightning bolt effects from Storm Cell & Category Five can't be changed without altering the entire power itself.   Chain Lightning's new summoning pose it ten times better than the original!

 

All in all, great set.  Thanks for all the effort you put into making this game look great.   

Edited April 24, 2023 by Aeolus

[drbuzzard]

On 4/22/2023 at 8:55 AM, Booper said:

I'll help explain, but can you tell me what you meant by "pop storm cells"?

I placed them in places on the battlefield where I thought they would help. 

[Ceejer]

Storm Cell & Category Five need the accuracy bumped up. 1.1 doesn't give these powers the impact needed even on Defenders. 

[biostem]

40 minutes ago, Ceejer said:

Storm Cell & Category Five need the accuracy bumped up. 1.1 doesn't give these powers the impact needed even on Defenders. 

Unless those 2 powers aren't able to benefit from acc slotting, then 1.1 should be fine - you should, after all, have to slot for acc in powers that you want to actually hit higher level enemies...