Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates

[ScarySai]

I'll gladly keep aim over beanbag, so no promises there.

 

Buckshot, slug and sniper rifle handle knock well enough on their own.

[Fusilier]

As an avid AR/DEV past and present, replacing Beanbag with Aim will make AR/DEV worse then it was on live in the earlier issues. Beanbag is needed for CC on pesky critters. Removing it would only leave Taser for any kind of CC defense, which it's range and shorter won't make up for. In a situation where I try to activate taser, most likely the Server says, "Got your kidney!" as the server ticks calculate the mobs attack before my own.

 

In my opinion, AR doesn't really need Aim, but other powers could use some adjustments to make up for it. But should Aim happen, I think the better situation is to replace Ignite with Aim, and adding the Ignite patch/Incenorator effect as a chance proc to Flamethrower, with Buckshot having a decent chance (50-60%) to apply a -defense proc and as the knockback changed to a low magnitude knockdown/repel. Maybe keep Flamethrowers long dot as a form of balance.

[FupDup]

Just give the stun effect to slug. Or even Incinerate. Let's just say that the heat is so intense that the target gets stunned by it. We don't need a dedicated (damage-less) stun power in a ranged blast set, especially one like AR. 

[Gobbledigook]

Full Auto.

 

Sentinel version is 152.13 damage + 10% chance 62.92 damage. 90 seconds recharge. 40' cone 90 degree arc.

  Blaster version is 189.53 damage + 10% chance 62.56 damage. 60 seconds recharge. 80'cone 90 degree arc. More damage and 30 seconds faster recharge.

 

Blaster damage scale 1.125

Sentinel damage scale 1.1

 

Maybe this needs looking at.

[Monkeyking]

Besides using Beanbag for some CC against certain mobs, blasters can pair it up with another stun power from their secondary, like Stun or Fracture. Being able to shut down a boss is a huge boost to survivability. Assault Rifle really needed Aim, but losing the disorient power is going to hurt a lot.

 

The question is: where to squeeze it back in? Turning Slug into the Sentinel's Disorienting Shot would be a little much. The new Incinerator still comes out a bit weaker than other tier 3 blasts. It doesn't really make sense for it to stun but you could tack it on there.

[eustace]

39 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

Full Auto.

 

Sentinel version is 152.13 damage + 10% chance 62.92 damage. 90 seconds recharge. 40' cone 90 degree arc.

  Blaster version is 189.53 damage + 10% chance 62.56 damage. 60 seconds recharge. 80'cone 90 degree arc. More damage and 30 seconds faster recharge.

 

Blaster damage scale 1.125

Sentinel damage scale 1.1

 

Maybe this needs looking at.

 

As if everything else was equal.  

The Sentinel also gets a buttload of damage mitigation that a blaster can only scratch at with an epic pool power. 

[Wavicle]

43 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

Full Auto.

 

Sentinel version is 152.13 damage + 10% chance 62.92 damage. 90 seconds recharge. 40' cone 90 degree arc.

  Blaster version is 189.53 damage + 10% chance 62.56 damage. 60 seconds recharge. 80'cone 90 degree arc. More damage and 30 seconds faster recharge.

 

Blaster damage scale 1.125

Sentinel damage scale 1.1

 

Maybe this needs looking at.

That's the same for all Sentinel sets compared to Blaster sets.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

That's the same for all Sentinel sets compared to Blaster sets.

Not really. 

 

Most blaster sets have over 2 minutes on their nukes. Sentinel nukes generally recharge much faster but hit for lower damage and less targets. 

 

I certainly think the Blaster Full auto range should be lowered to 60' max. Also it may be worth increasing the recharge, damage and number of targets to similar figures of other blaster nukes.

 

The blaster seems to be stealing all the Sentinel uniqueness and doing it much better with AR.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

That's the same for all Sentinel sets compared to Blaster sets.

 

Not sure if serious. Blaster nukes do more damage but recharge slower as well. When I usually say that Sentinels might actually do about the same damage as Blasters if we had an actual damage meter like Recount/Details/Skada it is because a Blaster will use their nuke every two groups where the Sentinel might squeeze it once a group.

 

My 'feel' (not backed by math but simply by having played the game for a couple years now) is that if we had such a damage meter we might well see Sentinels catch up by dint of using more often instead of when using it being super strong.

 

The example you quoted turns that upside down. Not only does the Blaster do more damage but also recharges faster. If anything the recharge should be swapped around with Blasters using a powerful Full Auto once a group (90 seconds Full Auto) but Sentinels able to use a weaker Full Auto twice a group (one minute Full Auto). Or follow the usual formula where the Blaster uses it every two groups and the Sentinel once a group.

 

 

I don't even play AR but this is just glaringly obvious.

[Ulysses Dare]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:57 PM, The Curator said:

Beanbag

• Power replaced with Aim.

Ignite

• Replaced with Incinerator. Incinerator does DoT over 5.6 seconds to a single target, for a total of 56.17 dpa (Blaster values).
• If the target is currently under the effect of -defense debuffs, the DoT is extended to 7.1s, for a DPA of 70.82 (Blaster values).
• Can target flying enemies.

I'm not a fan of these two changes. There are people out there who've built characters around these powers and you're pulling the rug out from under them. Some, maybe even most, will adapt. But some won't and will instead retire those characters. A tiny few will be annoyed enough to quit altogether. And for what? No one who wasn't exited about AR before is going to rush to play the set now just because it has Aim. Let AR keep it's distinctive feel. Buff the powers if the set needs it but don't take its existing tools away.

[psylum1]

Ignite I get. It's a power that if you take advantage of and build around can do serious damage work.

 

However there is not a single problem beanbag solves that can't be solved with aim+sniper, and the latter solves the problem a lot more permanently. 

[oldskool]

RE: Dual Pistols Feedback

 

Suppressive Fire

 

Pros:

• Offers another viable damage option to all ATs.
• The animation reduction is a nice DPA increase, and overall DPS increase for Sentinels in particular. 
• Still works well with damage procs although in a diminished capacity (the base damage helps offset the reduction even with the new animation).

Cons:

• My Corruptor's Hold Duration when from just over 16 seconds of time down to 4 seconds of time for no meaningful increase in my overall DPS. What I mean here is the power is slotted as a hold. Its damage was irrelevant to my use of it. Using it on beta means I lose a bit less of my overall DPS, but this also was never a concern in using the power in the first place. 
• The basic DPA of the power is slightly better than Dual Wield making this power sit in a position of "Why do I need another T2-like power when I already have Dual Wield?". [Edit: Suppressive Fire is being undersold a bit too much in this comment. I was looking at some wrong numbers in my notes and didn't click in my head what I was looking at. SF is a good bit better than Dual Wield even when considering that SF doesn't get DoT ticks with Incendiary Ammo. So, whoops; but this is also largely a moot point. SF has plenty of value for a variety of builds with the most recent update to all the ammo hold options.]
• Some ATs, like the Blaster, don't really need another attack when better choices exist. 
• The changes to Piercing Rounds depreciates the damage for all ATs but the Sentinel (Sentinel really get a short end of the stick here). 

Piercing Rounds

 

Pros:

• Using Piercing Rounds with Incendiary Ammo, and the Pistols - Executioner's Shot sandwich, is better than it ever was. 
• Piercing Rounds is a viable option for Blasters using ammo, and potentially even an optimal choice for Defender and Corruptor builds. 

Cons:

• For point #2, it was already optimal for certain builds, but it is also arguably better to play with when using ammo. So PRO/CON here. 
• Piercing Rounds creates a standard in which the resistance debuff can hold back the rest of the entire Dual Pistols kit from better damage. What I mean here is a lot of folks, rightfully, skip Piercing Rounds because its animation is pretty long. It takes serious consideration to make this work and some specific use for viability. The resistance debuff makes all subsequent attacks better and even force multiplies other ATs on your team. In turn, the rest of the DP kit is stuck with subpar DPA powers where the highest option for single target is, absurdly, Pistols and the best single target damage attack is Executioner's Shot which pales in comparison with other primaries. 
• Sentinel is still stuck with the 9.6% version and isn't as worth it in respect to Suppressive Fire, still. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by oldskool

[ScarySai]

5 minutes ago, oldskool said:

What I mean here is a lot of folks, rightfully, skip Piercing Rounds because its animation is pretty long. It takes serious consideration to make this work and some specific use for viability. The resistance debuff makes all subsequent attacks better and even force multiplies other ATs on your team. In turn, the rest of the DP kit is stuck with subpar DPA powers where the highest option for single target is, absurdly, Pistols and the best single target damage attack is Executioner's Shot which pales in comparison with other primaries. 

 

How do I like a post multiple times?

[fiend]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:57 PM, The Curator said:

Psionic Tornado (Blaster/Defender/Corruptor)

• Cast time lowered from 2.37s to 1.83s. (Applies to Sentinels as well)
• Radius reduced from 20 feet to 15 feet.
• Damage increased from scale 0.89 to scale 1.1.

 

Does this bit mean sentinels will get the lower cast time, but still retain the larger radius?

[Wavicle]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Not sure if serious. Blaster nukes do more damage but recharge slower as well. When I usually say that Sentinels might actually do about the same damage as Blasters if we had an actual damage meter like Recount/Details/Skada it is because a Blaster will use their nuke every two groups where the Sentinel might squeeze it once a group.

 

My 'feel' (not backed by math but simply by having played the game for a couple years now) is that if we had such a damage meter we might well see Sentinels catch up by dint of using more often instead of when using it being super strong.

 

The example you quoted turns that upside down. Not only does the Blaster do more damage but also recharges faster. If anything the recharge should be swapped around with Blasters using a powerful Full Auto once a group (90 seconds Full Auto) but Sentinels able to use a weaker Full Auto twice a group (one minute Full Auto). Or follow the usual formula where the Blaster uses it every two groups and the Sentinel once a group.

 

 

I don't even play AR but this is just glaringly obvious.

 

Most Blaster nukes hit 16, most Sentinel nukes only hit 10.

Sentinel FA has a longer cooldown, but it also hits 10.

[Gobbledigook]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

Most Blaster nukes hit 16, most Sentinel nukes only hit 10.

Sentinel FA has a longer cooldown, but it also hits 10.

Yes. But the Blasters version also hits a lot harder as well as recharging faster. One is ok but both is a bit too much. Over say 10 uses of FA the Blaster will out damage the Sentinel by a very large margin.

[ScarySai]

I don't think even the devs know what they want to do with sentinels tbh. They seem like they're only still around because it's just too late to delete them.

[eustace]

I don't get these posts stating that a disparity between Sentinel and Blaster damage is a problem, and that any solution needs to bend toward equalizing that disparity.  

So then Blasters would still be glass cannons and Sentinels would be steel cannons.  

Doesn't seem like a solution to me, certainly not any equitable one. 

 

On another hand, after playing my DP Blasters in a few Tinpex's lately, I feel like one of the best ways to increase the overall DPS in the set (for every AT) would be to speed up the animations.  

I feel like Dual Pistols is the worst one, as it's not just the delay in shot but then the delay in return to neutral stance that make the whole thing feel cludgy.  

And, apparently, long animation time is part of the complaint about Piercing Rounds, too.  

They already sped up the animation of Hail of Bullets, which was great.  

I love all the animations themselves.  It's a key part of what makes the set great.  

But maybe just speed things up a bit so that getting attacks out is more fluid.  

Or else give the set an overall buff to further compensate for all that extra movement between shots. 

[Draeth Darkstar]

2 hours ago, Gobbledigook said:

Yes. But the Blasters version also hits a lot harder as well as recharging faster. One is ok but both is a bit too much. Over say 10 uses of FA the Blaster will out damage the Sentinel by a very large margin.

 

Sentinels aren't designed to be Blasters with shorter range. They're designed to be Scrappers with longer range. That's why their AoEs have the same target caps as melee attacks. They're never going to have comparable AoE output to an AT that is entirely dedicated to blowing stuff up when they have an Armor set.

[BazookaTwo]

On live, Ignite on my AR blaster routinely does 1000+ damage. What is Incinerate going to do by comparison? If it's less, I'm gonna be mad. 

 

[ScarySai]

13 hours ago, Ulysses Dare said:

There are people out there who've built characters around these powers and you're pulling the rug out from under them.

I'll give you ignite, but applying this to beanbag is a reach, mate.

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, BazookaTwo said:

On live, Ignite on my AR blaster routinely does 1000+ damage. What is Incinerate going to do by comparison? If it's less, I'm gonna be mad. 

 

Probably less, but you won't have to spend time setting it up with Immobs or whatever.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Wavicle

[nihilii]

6 hours ago, Draeth Darkstar said:

Sentinels aren't designed to be Blasters with shorter range. They're designed to be Scrappers with longer range. That's why their AoEs have the same target caps as melee attacks. They're never going to have comparable AoE output to an AT that is entirely dedicated to blowing stuff up when they have an Armor set.

This opinion works in a vacuum, but I'm not sure it's relevant when discussing Sentinel AR paying a much steeper price relatively than Sentinel almost-every-other-primary.

Either Sentinel AR is unfairly taxed or Sentinel almost-every-other-primary are unfairly powerful.

[Gobbledigook]

9 hours ago, Draeth Darkstar said:

 

Sentinels aren't designed to be Blasters with shorter range. They're designed to be Scrappers with longer range. That's why their AoEs have the same target caps as melee attacks. They're never going to have comparable AoE output to an AT that is entirely dedicated to blowing stuff up when they have an Armor set.

Scrappers do not struggle with damage in any way. They have AoE. The AoE of a Scrapper may be less targets but it is also shorter cooldowns and rotated much more frequently than the Blaster t9 FA nuke we are discussing. I am sure a SD/ElecM Scrapper can put out some pretty good AoE damage but that is irrelevant.

 

This is concerning Full Auto only though and probably RoA when it's time is due.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[Gobbledigook]

10 hours ago, eustace said:

I don't get these posts stating that a disparity between Sentinel and Blaster damage is a problem, and that any solution needs to bend toward equalizing that disparity.  

So then Blasters would still be glass cannons and Sentinels would be steel cannons.  

Doesn't seem like a solution to me, certainly not any equitable one. 

 

We are not comparing blaster damage to Sentinel damage. Just discussing Full auto only.

 

If you look at the Corruptor version of FA also, it does a little less damage than the Sentinels but recharges a full 30 seconds faster and can scourge for even more damage. Even the Corruptor version will out pace the Sentinels. Corruptors bring buffs/debuffs of all sorts on top.