Are there any underpowered power sets you'd like to see buffed?

[RussHood]

Broadsword: add just a couple more feet to the cones (swipe? and headsplitter) to make them feel like im not swinging a dagger length weapon. (My BS/FA scrap seems to do ok, with proper buffs/debuffs from team it hits pretty darn hard) 

 

Little OT question: do powerset changes affect enemies that use them?

[marcussmythe]

Broadsword: add just a couple more feet to the cones (swipe? and headsplitter) to make them feel like im not swinging a dagger length weapon. (My BS/FA scrap seems to do ok, with proper buffs/debuffs from team it hits pretty darn hard) 

 

Little OT question: do powerset changes affect enemies that use them?

 

Not always.  *looks at the Paragon Protectors Minute of Glory*

 

Im not sure how NPC versions of powers work - are they drawn from PC versions?  If so, which version?

 

My guess is that when a new NPC is created, the creator sets what powers they want it to have, and those powers are then baked into that NPC at whatever values they had at the time the NPC was created - unless further juggled by the creator - consider certain NPCs that can attack or summon while in what is for PCs an 'affecting self only' intangible, etc.  Thus an I14 NPC will tend to have an I14 version of whatever powers it has baked into it, and later changes to the PC versions of the powers wont show up on the NPC.

[Harrow]

Broadsword: add just a couple more feet to the cones (swipe? and headsplitter) to make them feel like im not swinging a dagger length weapon. (My BS/FA scrap seems to do ok, with proper buffs/debuffs from team it hits pretty darn hard) 

 

I think a lot of melee cones should be made larger, actually. They're notoriously hard to actually land because most of them are so short and narrow.

[Vanden]

Invuln is a defense-based set -- its totals are very closely comparable to SD by the point of Tough Hide.

 

"By the point of" being the key there - what about before?  Not every character is post 50 Incarnates.  Anyway, just my opinion.  Feel free to disagree.

Tough Hide the the tier 8 power for Invul. Level 26 for Tankers, 35 for everyone else.

[Elthenar]

Am I the only one that thinks Trick Arrow is a pretty strong set? It's not so easy to solo with it in many builds but its debuffs are legit.

 

 

There are several sets I'd like to see worked on but Mercs is the big one off the top of my head. It's a set held back by IMO the worst T2 pets by a country mile. The spec ops guys are just awful, they are a balanced around some strong hard control on long cooldowns. Long cooldown hard control needs to be carefully used to get bang for the buck and that almost never happens with the Spec Ops AI. Even when they do use it at an appropriate time, it's not really all that big of a deal. They are also a ranged pet with two melee attacks, often. As a result they have extremely poor AOE damage and not so great as dps overall. This is a big reason why Mercs are generally considered one of if not the absolute lowest dps primary for MMs. Unlike the other low DPS primary (necro), the control mercs are supposed to get in exchange for the lost damage is weak, on a long timer and extremely unreliable.

 

 

That's not even getting into serum, which actually has it's own thread here.

[jack_nomind]

Am I the only one that thinks Trick Arrow is a pretty strong set? It's not so easy to solo with it in many builds but its debuffs are legit.

 

I'd say 90% of it is its powers' effects do not justify their cooldowns.  I am positively mystified by Disruption Arrow, as one example.  Similar lower-tier powers like Tar Patch have higher effect magnitude and additional effects at the same relative (50% unenhanced) uptime -- and Tar Patch requires less recasting -- while other mid- to high- tier -Res powers are just straight toggles (Enervating Field or Venomous Gas as examples) with, again, higher magnitude and additional secondary effects.  If Trick Arrow wants to be the "effect stacking" kit with weaker up-front magnitudes but fast casts and quick recharge, fine; cut all its recharge times in half(*) and we'll see how it stands.

 

The other 10% is a mix.  TA's endurance costs are a bit high given the above, and it doesn't have internal way of mitigating the end costs or recharge speed issue.  It also doesn't have any PBAoE or ally-targeted powers, so there's some clunkiness in responding to problems with your allies because you have to find and hit whatever's attacking them (either by targeting that enemy or by putting an aoe on them).  It really could have done with an AoE toggle buff (some kind of "morale aura" or w/e, all the comic book archers are wisecrackers and spotters for the heavies), but failing that for cottage reasons it'd be great if the arrows could be fired directly at allies, and/or had larger effect radii, and/or left buff patches along with the debuff ones.

 

(*) I have not evaluated every power to make sure 'half' isn't going to break something.

 

 

[srmalloy]

The other 10% is a mix.  TA's endurance costs are a bit high given the above, and it doesn't have internal way of mitigating the end costs or recharge speed issue.

 

It makes me wonder whether TA was originally balanced as a Defender-only powerset, with the assumption that a Defender would regularly have Vigilance active reducing the End costs of all the powers -- which, from what I saw pre-shutdown, became less and less useful as characters became more powerful. It seemed as if, when things fell in the pot badly enough for Vigilance to come into play to any significant extent, things were bad enough off that just reducing the End cost of the Defender's abilities wasn't going to be much help pulling things out of the pot. Maybe reducing End cost and recharge time, with the numbers being looked at based on combat data? I don't know.

[Leogunner]

I would subtract force fields and add energy melee but otherwise this list seems spot on for the underperformers.

 

Thank you!  But I'm gonna defend keeping FF on the list.

 

On a Force Fields Defender, Deflection Shield + Insulation Shield give ~24% def/all to allies, +~16% def/all to allies within 25m for a total of 40% def/all (enhanced).  The set as a whole provides some protection against Hold, Stun, and Immobilize, which is nice, and some resistance to a few things including a very nice end drain/recovery debuff resistance.  As far as support's concerned, that's the entire set.

 

The pool power Vengeance, on a Defender, provides a ~40% defense buff to all (enhanced), as well as +65% damage, +35% tohit (unenhanced), and a 13% heal (unenhanced).  It doesn't offer status protection to Hold, Stun, or Immob; or end drain resistance... but it does offer a fair bit of status resistance and protection against KB and Fear.

 

But really FF isn't bad because its numbers are matched by a pool power that recapitulates the entire effect as long as you have some +rech and a floor-prone blaster; it's bad because it does one trick period and that leaves it open to being easily mooted.  Its offensive powers need to be significantly tweaked to have debuff components or some other utility against hard targets, and its defensive powers should have something that contributes to a team that already has two Corrs or one VEAT on it.  That's why it's on the list.

 

 

 

Force Fields is one of those sets that transcends typical numbers.  Think sets like Storm Summoning...

 

I've seen powers like Force Bubble do some crazy shit, on a MM, mind you.  It's probably a set for people not waiting to be the cleric or whitemage buffer in the back.  With that in mind, I'd definitely still suggest some fat being trimmed from it while adding some things to give it a bit of variety.  Stuff like cut Repulsion Field entirely, make Detention Field a toggle with a time limit, allow team-based FF powers to be usable while in Personal FF, and add either stronger CC or some debuff elements to Repulsion Bomb.  If they want to add temporary absorb to its palette, I'd say it'd have to either be a decent long-recharge single target buff or a minor temporary AoE possibly tied to a toggle.

[Auroxis]

Just slap some +Absorb on FF and call it a day.

[Ry]

Energy Melee is kind of lame, honestly. I never see anyone use it here, on any AT - and I play a lot. I remember waaaaayyyy back on live I dropped this set like a ton of bricks when Energy Transfer got a longer animation, it was such a pain to use and honestly crippled my Tanker. And even back then it wasnt a very popular set, people would rather play other sets and rightfully so, Energy Melee hasnt got all that much going for it. I dont know how it could be improved, I'm not a numbers man. But things definitely have to change with that set, the old animation for Energy Transfer would be a lovely start! :)

[Neogumbercules]

Munitions Mastery, assault rifle, and energy melee.

[Soulstinger]

Hoping not to get flamed into oblivion with this... but;

 

Mastermind pets. All across the board.

MM's have always been a bit tricky, requiring a fair amount of micromanagement to get decent useability out of them, nd there are certainly some types that have stronger issues than others.

 

But in the Incarnate endgame; they often seem to underperform massivly compared to most other AT's that melt entire screens of mobs or go head-to-head with AV's.

 

I would like to see a slight bump to their AoE defense, and perhaps slight tweak to their damage, and how it interacts with things like the Assault aura.

[Galaxy Brain]

Hoping not to get flamed into oblivion with this... but;

 

Mastermind pets. All across the board.

MM's have always been a bit tricky, requiring a fair amount of micromanagement to get decent useability out of them, nd there are certainly some types that have stronger issues than others.

 

But in the Incarnate endgame; they often seem to underperform massivly compared to most other AT's that melt entire screens of mobs or go head-to-head with AV's.

 

I would like to see a slight bump to their AoE defense, and perhaps slight tweak to their damage, and how it interacts with things like the Assault aura.

 

 

This one is kinda loaded since in everywhere but endgame they are monstrous

[Williwaw]

Energy Melee is kind of lame, honestly. I never see anyone use it here, on any AT - and I play a lot. I remember waaaaayyyy back on live I dropped this set like a ton of bricks when Energy Transfer got a longer animation, it was such a pain to use and honestly crippled my Tanker. And even back then it wasnt a very popular set, people would rather play other sets and rightfully so, Energy Melee hasnt got all that much going for it. I dont know how it could be improved, I'm not a numbers man. But things definitely have to change with that set, the old animation for Energy Transfer would be a lovely start! :)

Energy Melee is a single-target damage and stun monster... but the game these days is built mostly around AoE damage, and Stun is one of the more annoying mezzes (since stunned enemies tend to wander off even when Taunted, and stunned enemies also reduce Brutes' Fury generation somewhat)

 

However, I don't think ET's original animation is fitting for the game's most powerful single-target attack and one of the most powerful attacks overall, with 4.56 scale damage.  Compare with Earth Melee's Seismic Smash, which does 3.56 scale damage (tied with KO Blow, Concentrated Strike, and Total Focus) and is well-known to be an overperformer because of its short animation (1.5 seconds).  Reducing ET's animation to its old cast time while keeping its current damage would make it ridiculously overpowered.

 

Sped up?  Maybe, but not to its old 1-second palm strike animation.

 

(That said, Energy Transfer's 2.67s animation time is actually shorter than Total Focus despite doing a lot more damage, so TF probably needs its 3.3 second animation time looked at as well.  At least the other attacks that use TF's animation - Thunder Strike and Tremor - are AoE attacks)

 

And then Devastating Blow in Radiation needs a look.

 

But in the Incarnate endgame; they often seem to underperform massivly compared to most other AT's that melt entire screens of mobs or go head-to-head with AV's.

 

At the very least, they need to have their Incarnate level shifts all the time rather than just within Supremacy distance of the MM.

[Ry]

However, I don't think ET's original animation is fitting for the game's most powerful single-target attack and one of the most powerful attacks overall, with 4.56 scale damage.  Compare with Earth Melee's Seismic Smash, which does 3.56 scale damage (tied with KO Blow, Concentrated Strike, and Total Focus) and is well-known to be an overperformer because of its short animation (1.5 seconds).  Reducing ET's animation to its old cast time while keeping its current damage would make it ridiculously overpowered.

 

I'm kind of shocked to hear that, not exactly saying you're wrong because its been a while. With that said, Energy Melee as you said focuses more on single target and the game isnt so much about that anymore. If it were up to me I'd just lower the damage and speed up the animation a bit, even if I have to have the old one. Also, Total Focus is SLOWER? Huh. I always heard that but when I played it Energy Transfer felt longer - but thats just how it -felt- as opposed to factual numbers, preferences and all that. Cheers for the reply :)

[Rylas]

However, I don't think ET's original animation is fitting for the game's most powerful single-target attack and one of the most powerful attacks overall, with 4.56 scale damage.  Compare with Earth Melee's Seismic Smash, which does 3.56 scale damage (tied with KO Blow, Concentrated Strike, and Total Focus) and is well-known to be an overperformer because of its short animation (1.5 seconds).  Reducing ET's animation to its old cast time while keeping its current damage would make it ridiculously overpowered.

 

I think that's being a bit narrow-viewed on the issue, though. Just looking at its scale damage skews the way things look. As pointed out earlier in the thread with spread sheets, ET's DPA ends up being way lower than the powers you listed. And taking into consideration how much faster other sets can take out whole groups with AoE, even if ET was to out-perform for single target damage, you're still balanced out with having to take out most of a group one foe at a time.

[jack_nomind]

However, I don't think ET's original animation is fitting for the game's most powerful single-target attack and one of the most powerful attacks overall, with 4.56 scale damage.  Compare with Earth Melee's Seismic Smash, which does 3.56 scale damage (tied with KO Blow, Concentrated Strike, and Total Focus) and is well-known to be an overperformer because of its short animation (1.5 seconds).  Reducing ET's animation to its old cast time while keeping its current damage would make it ridiculously overpowered.

 

Sped up?  Maybe, but not to its old 1-second palm strike animation.

 

(That said, Energy Transfer's 2.67s animation time is actually shorter than Total Focus despite doing a lot more damage, so TF probably needs its 3.3 second animation time looked at as well.  At least the other attacks that use TF's animation - Thunder Strike and Tremor - are AoE attacks)

 

The thing I notice about most 'overperforming' attacks is that they are in sets that are otherwise uninteresting.  Energy Melee is a single-target-focused set with the least-desirable melee secondary effect (chance to stun -- and it doesn't get even that on its single AoE).  It is eclipsed in every meaningful way by Radiation Melee and Kinetic Melee, to the point that EM (if proposed today) would likely be rejected as redundant.

 

I personally don't see an issue with it being ST DPS equivalent to Titan Weapons, but with animation times smoothed out relative to TW.  Even then it's still a boring set, but one that has a clear niche.  If not that, what would you propose for it?

[marcussmythe]

I personally don't see an issue with it being ST DPS equivalent to Titan Weapons, but with animation times smoothed out relative to TW.  Even then it's still a boring set, but one that has a clear niche.  If not that, what would you propose for it?

 

Essentially trading TWs AOE and good CC for not needing to manage Momentum and an energy damage component?  Yeah, thats what EM was for.  Best single target and lack of worries.

[Galaxy Brain]

Itd be neat if EM's build up was a toggle that drained your HP per hit while active, giving it a hugh risk high reward tied to ETs theme

[marcussmythe]

Itd be neat if EM's build up was a toggle that drained your HP per hit while active, giving it a hugh risk high reward tied to ETs theme

 

Neat, but unless it drained max HP rather than just HP, youve just ensured that EM only gets used with WP, Bio, and maybe DA and Regen.

[Galaxy Brain]

Itd be neat if EM's build up was a toggle that drained your HP per hit while active, giving it a hugh risk high reward tied to ETs theme

 

Neat, but unless it drained max HP rather than just HP, youve just ensured that EM only gets used with WP, Bio, and maybe DA and Regen.

 

True, itd have to be a % per hit / etc

[Omeganova]

With the Implementation of Radiation Melee, and then the subsequent creation of Radiation Assault for Dominators which includes Radiation Blast powers working with the Contaminated mechanic. I think a great way to buff Radiation Blasts would be to also give it the Contaminated mechanic.

[Schwartz]

Dark Melee - Shadow Maul

 

The cone needs some altering... this power is great when it finally decides to work. I spend most of my time stacking enemies  then fighting. Even after what I believe to be enemies in the line of Shadow Mauls cone it still only hits one target. With other similar abilities I have no where near the trouble of it hitting at the very least an additional target.

 

Dark Melee - Touch of Fear

 

This ability is pretty boring and should have some sort of damage. I know I am running Dark Armor as well but with Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom toggle on, I find the ability very lack luster.

 

Dark Melee - Shadow Punch & Smite

 

These two attacks are to similar once geared and Shadow Punch becomes extremely weak compared to Smite. Users will eventually drop Shadow Punch unless they need one or the other for ATO place holder.

 

Dark Melee - Overall

 

I believe Dark Melee is missing an actual damaging AOE or DoT abilities. DM is mainly ST because Shadow Maul cone size is to small. When I think of DM I think of DoT damage but it lacks it.

[Galaxy Brain]

It seems like the more ST damage sets are just sorta underperforming?

[marcussmythe]

Thats a combination of things:

 

AOE is almost always good.  Single target is rarely of great value, usually only a big deal when trying to best an AVs regeneration.

 

Most AOE sets push sufficient single target, the reverse is not the case.

 

Many single target focused sets are release sets, and release sets have aged poorly.  Later implented sets pay more attention to AOE performance (developers learn)

 

Some single target sets got clubbed in the early ‘balance downward’ days, or released during the ‘balance downward’ era.