Blaster/Corr/Defender Soul Drain turned into a cone

[kelika2]

50ft range

45d arc

Rename is Beckon Souls

[Rudra]

No thanks. I currently enjoy having Soul Drain as a PBAoE.

[Greycat]

Two thoughts.

 

1.  Why? It currently works just fine. And it's spread across several ATs in both primary, secondary and APP/Patron pools.

 

2. Main issue I'd have with this is changing it from a PBAOE to a cone means everyone who has it now has to re-slot if they're using sets, and some may find it less useful (specifically melee, but I'd have to add some of my corrupters and defenders to that) to have it as a cone vs. an AOE.

[Chance Jackson]

I'm not opposed i have only really had it on a cone based toon so as a pbaoe it only really work smoothly for me if i use the pbaoe nuke right after

Edited July 14, 2023 by Chance Jackson

[Rigged]

11 hours ago, Greycat said:

1.  Why? It currently works just fine. And it's spread across several ATs in both primary, secondary and APP/Patron pools.

 

I suspect it is because Dark Blast has an unusually large number of cones, and they want to increase the synergy. 

 

Regardless, it is not so cool for people who are not Dark Blast and are not already lining up the cones as part of their normal attack cycle. This is particularly pronounced for Blasters, who get Soul drain from their secondary (rather than the APP/PPP like Defenders and Corruptors) where there are likely to be lots of people who take the Dark secondary without the Dark Blast primary. Blaster Dark blast also has one less cone, so there isn't that much synergy for them. So for Blasters at least, where you are supposed to blap for maximum effectiveness and the synergy is not so much a factor as it is for defenders and corruptors, I hope they do not change it. 

 

There is a bit of an argument for changing the Soul Drain in Defender and Corruptor Soul/Dark Mastery though, since it does force a ranged defender to close where they may not otherwise have to. Few Defender/Corruptor APP/PPP powers require you to close - although Dark Mastery specifically has all the powers other than the armor being PBAOEs. One possibility is to change the Soul Mastery version (since the rest of the powers are ranged; also the Soul Mastery version has twice the cooldown) to a cone while leaving the Dark Mastery version as it is, which would provide greater distinction between the Dark and Soul Mastery sets. I myself have no opinion for or against changing this.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Rigged

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i try not to downvote things but i'm not understanding the OP's intent here. 

If synergy was a thing broadsword and shield would be an amazing combo and its meh at best.

@kelika2 can you explain your intent with this suggestion?

I apologize for putting you on the spot.

[kelika2]

mostly because ranged aoes

[arcane]

44 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

mostly because ranged aoes

You mean cones obviously? Since ranged AoE’s can be used in melee no issue.

[golstat2003]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, kelika2 said:

50ft range

45d arc

Rename is Beckon Souls

 

No. I like Sould Drain as is.

[SwitchFade]

Sorry, no vote on the change to come..

 

HOWEVER... Yes vote on name change to...

 

BACON SOULS

[BrandX]

I don't take Soul Drain often, but when I do, it's with a PBAOE Nuke. 🙂

[blue4333]

why play Dark Manipulation when you can play a set with Build Up, which is available on demand and without the need for a hit check or number of mobs for effectiveness.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, blue4333 said:

why play Dark Manipulation when you can play a set with Build Up, which is available on demand and without the need for a hit check or number of mobs for effectiveness.

Theme. Variety. ToHit Debuffs. Fear effect. END recovery from foes. DoT aura. TAoE disorient attack. How many reasons do you want?

[blue4333]

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Theme. Variety. ToHit Debuffs. Fear effect. END recovery from foes. DoT aura. TAoE disorient attack. How many reasons do you want?

a flawed set is still a flawed set.

 

To Hit Debuffs - sure if you really need that extra 9 - 12% -tohit before you can kill the target.

 

Fear Effect - It is not worth wasting the animation time on a mag 2 single target fear. And this is tied to a sustain power whereas other sets have the sustain on 24/7, do you really want to save it as a CC effect instead of the sustain??? Darkness Manipulation is already handicapped by needing a critter for it.

 

End Recovery - Sure if you really need that END every (60-90 secs with max recharge), just carry blues or use Ageless. The trade off here is the lack of an additional PBAOE attack or cone that other blaster support sets have. The damage of Dark Consumption is not really that great and base up time is pretty low.

 

DOT Aura - Standard blaster aura but sustain should have been moved here like most other blaster sets having their sustain in a toggle and Touch of the Beyond should have been given more CC or utility.

 

Disorient - Mag 2 stun??? Just Nuke/AOE the minions down and save yourself the animation time and alpha strike.

 

 

[Rudra]

If all you care about in the game is raw damage, then a rather significant number of sets are "flawed". Darkness Manipulation offers the player a rather wide assortment of options for dealing with foes. And if you want to compare Build up to Soul Drain?

 

Build Up:

5.2 END cost

+20% ToHit

+100% damage

1.17s cast time

90s recharge

10s duration

 

Soul Drain:

15.6 END cost

90% accuracy (according to Mids)/1.2 accuracy (according to CoD)

55.6102 damage to foes (at level 50)

+10% ToHit

+2% ToHit (per target?)

+50% damage

+10% damage (per target?)

2.37s cast time

120s recharge

30s duration

10 feet radius

10 target cap

 

I don't see what the problem is with having Soul Drain as opposed to Build Up. So if I'm reading it right, and that is a big if, then Soul Drain caps at +150% damage buff for 30 seconds. To Build Up's +100% damage buff for 10 seconds. And Soul Drain does good damage to all targets in its radius. I'm surprised you aren't a fan of it.

[TheZag]

Soul drain is impressive.  It can be made essentially perma,  you can proc bomb it with a high proc rate and even with only a single target hit the increased uptime gives equal or better output than buildup.

 

30 seconds of uptime with soul drain takes 2.37 seconds of cast time compared to 3.51 seconds of cast time for 30 seconds uptime with buildup.  Its all in how you look at the numbers as what is good to you.  In my book,  soul drain is far superior to buildup and i rarely take or use buildup on anything except for right before my nuke or assassin strike.

 

Right now soul drain has about 315 square feet of coverage in its 10 foot radius as a PBAoE.  The proposed change would would give 1036 square feet of coverage with a width of 41.4 feet at its max 50 foot range.  That is a huge increase in coverage that would likely require a reduction in soul drain's buff effectiveness as well as reducing proc rates since area is part of the proc rate calculation.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, kelika2 said:

50ft range

45d arc

Rename is Beckon Souls

I'd more likely support a new power that worked at range instead of a PBAoE, but I'm not into breaking many existing characters that use it to great effect as a PBAoE.

[kelika2]

obliteration and bombardment are pretty much the same thing.  i dunno what you mean by 're-enhancementing will shatter my world'

[Rigged]

On 7/16/2023 at 12:06 AM, blue4333 said:

why play Dark Manipulation when you can play a set with Build Up, which is available on demand and without the need for a hit check or number of mobs for effectiveness.

 

Min/maxing can allow you to get Soul Drain to 100% uptime, and/or use it as a proc bomb. Soul Drain is in fact a very very good power, more useful than Build Up in many cases. Especially for a blaster who can also get Aim to stick the Gaussian Proc into. There are several blaster builds relying on non-cone AOEs in the primary to do heavy close-range blapping, and /Dark is pretty good for them. 

 

Dark melee has some issues compared to Dark Manip, because you pay for Soul Drain by losing large AOE options. But Blasters can get lots of AOE in their primary and the synergy with Soul Drain from secondary is very good. This is more so since many blasters have more attacks than they really need. In fact, I have blaster builds where I skip the secondary PBAOE if they are particularly weak.

 

The real problems with Dark Manip do not lie with Soul Drain. The problem is more the way Touch of Beyond works as a sustain making Dark Consumption usually superfluous, and the very meh AOE disorient.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Rigged

[Captain Fabulous]

/powercreep