honoroitisfantastic Would you pvp for prisms?

[Neiska]

13 minutes ago, honoroit said:

if you're famous, like me, in CoH, prisms comes down to one thing:

 

 

 

"I just want the paper!"

*Doesn't want to farm, play the market, doesn't want to do TF's, just wants to pwn people and get paid for it.*

 

*Me, sitting around 15B and I am not even considered rich by CoH standards* "K."

[High_Beam]

All of my joking aside, I never had vitriol towards PvPers, if that's what floated their boat then good on them.  My problem was that the game was altered to accommodate PvP and in doing so altered how I (and everyone else, even PvPers, played).  That was, and I often feel still is, one of the big reasons why so many people feel so much negativity towards PvP (and to a lesser extent PvPers).  There have been several posts in this thread, which has remained surprisingly civil, that point to the concept that if all of the ways to gain an edge (Set IO, etc) were zeroed out and it was singularly defined by core power selection, build, and game play that they might, maybe PvP.  Maybe.

 

Thankfully on Homecoming, at least as far as I can tell, there is no intent to try and alter the PvE experience for PvP.  If they can find ways to make PvP more . . . accommodating, or fun, that would be what would bring people in to at least try; not shiny's that can be got in several other places without the hassle.  My badger has the badges, and the rewards from the zones (missiles from Warburg, Longbow Mech from RV) are vastly overshadowed now between equivalent buys (HVAS) and Incarnate powers.  Forget about the risk, the time sink isn't worth it.

 

I am a Care Bear (as my sone calls me when I occasionally jump on EVE Online).  I have been ganked by my son in Low Sec, so I stay in High Sec and let him have his fun.  When my son briefly played CoH he ganked me in Siren's Call and Warburg but didn't play long because the PvP was what he craved and CoH was "weak sauce" to him; so back to EVE he went.  Good on him.

[High_Beam]

4 hours ago, honoroit said:

(3/ pvp invasions into city zones, even within faction)

Hard No there.

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Oubliette_Red said:

there was a group of gardening implements camping the hospital

Needs more context.   😁

[SeraphimKensai]

40 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

 

I am a Care Bear (as my sone calls me when I occasionally jump on EVE Online).  I have been ganked by my son in Low Sec, so I stay in High Sec and let him have his fun.  When my son briefly played CoH he ganked me in Siren's Call and Warburg but didn't play long because the PvP was what he craved and CoH was "weak sauce" to him; so back to EVE he went.  Good on him.

Sure EVE is a completely different animal where it's not uncommon to do nefarious space pirate things, but I'm surprised your own son would pod you in EVE and that's coming from a guy that ransomed a freighter I found flying in Old Man Star on my second day while flying a rifter stating I had a stealth fleet with me. And I'd let him go for a billion isk. o7 fly safe.

 

CoH PvP although has more twitch than large EVE fleet battles with TiDi and hitting F1, pvp in CoH has never been as ruthless as EVE. Then again that's part of the EVE concept and community appeal.

[honoroit]

dunno, eq2 nagafen got pretty gank squaddy. i loved it! there were level ranges and what equated to forced exemp, but with power rescaling.

 

however, yes, never felt terror in game more than in eve - when flying a freighter, with double wrapped MANY bp originals, moving ops to a new corp. galante high spec space to minimitar near their start system.

 

i never went below 0.5, but id have lost all-the-things if anything at all had intercepted me.

Edited August 1, 2023 by honoroit

[High_Beam]

12 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Sure EVE is a completely different animal where it's not uncommon to do nefarious space pirate things, but I'm surprised your own son would pod you in EVE and that's coming from a guy that ransomed a freighter I found flying in Old Man Star on my second day while flying a rifter stating I had a stealth fleet with me. And I'd let him go for a billion isk. o7 fly safe.

Oh he totally podded my ass, lost my shiny Stratios.  My son was in Guiding Hand Social Club back in the day if you know what I mean.  But we are both on the monument so 😛

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, High_Beam said:

Oh he totally podded my ass, lost my shiny Stratios.  My son was in Guiding Hand Social Club back in the day if you know what I mean.  But we are both on the monument so 😛

 

 

I know it's story well. I haven't played in probably 6 or so years, but I was affiliated at one point with ••••••••••••••• sorry that data is still classified. I was primarily involved in intelligence trading.

[macskull]

4 hours ago, High_Beam said:

All of my joking aside, I never had vitriol towards PvPers, if that's what floated their boat then good on them.  My problem was that the game was altered to accommodate PvP and in doing so altered how I (and everyone else, even PvPers, played).  That was, and I often feel still is, one of the big reasons why so many people feel so much negativity towards PvP (and to a lesser extent PvPers).  There have been several posts in this thread, which has remained surprisingly civil, that point to the concept that if all of the ways to gain an edge (Set IO, etc) were zeroed out and it was singularly defined by core power selection, build, and game play that they might, maybe PvP.  Maybe.

This is a pretty common misconception. I already mentioned it a few pages back in this thread, but the only PvE-affecting change made solely because of PvP was reducing the tick rate of Hurricane. People like to point at travel suppression as an example of something PvP caused, but 1) some travel powers already had negative side effects while they were running to discourage their use in combat and 2) travel suppression doesn't really exist in PvP anymore but it's still in PvE. On the other hand, people conveniently skip over the improvements that made their way to PvE but were originally implemented for PvP reasons, like toggles not dropping while mezzed or melee attacks gaining an across-the-board 40% range buff.

 

As to your last point, making everyone exactly the same is, I supposed, balanced in a way, but it's pretty boring, especially for a game that prides itself on variety and customization. You're always going to run into a rock-paper-scissors situation in PvP and that's not necessarily a bad thing (and that's why teammates exist). It's also worth pointing out that between instant level 50s, accolades purchasable at vendors for 10k inf, and an extremely affordable supply of enhancements on the market, the barrier to PvP in this game has probably never been lower.

 

More on-topic, though: Prismatic Aethers are like... 4 million inf on the AH? I'm not opposed to having them drop from PvP defeats but it would probably be tied to a timer or rep like PvP IOs are and even if you wanted to farm them you wouldn't be able to make them at a meaningful speed compared to just doing PvE or buying them from the AH.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'm less bothered by prisms than I am PVP which I do enjoy a lot, but rarely do in a meaningful way

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

People like to point at travel suppression as an example of something PvP caused,

It's not the PvE changes because of PvP in and of themselves, it's how the Paragon Studios 'Word of God' on this type of change went from "We won't make PvE changes for PvP reasons" to "We won't make PvE changes purely for PvP reasons" to "We'll try not to make PvE changes for PvP reasons" to not talking about it at all and just implementing changes where there didn't seem to be any PvE issue that the change addressed, in what seemed to be an effort to keep PvE and PvP mechanics closely tied to each other.

[SwitchFade]

37 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

It's not the PvE changes because of PvP in and of themselves, it's how the Paragon Studios 'Word of God' on this type of change went from "We won't make PvE changes for PvP reasons" to "We won't make PvE changes purely for PvP reasons" to "We'll try not to make PvE changes for PvP reasons" to not talking about it at all and just implementing changes where there didn't seem to be any PvE issue that the change addressed, in what seemed to be an effort to keep PvE and PvP mechanics closely tied to each other.

This is actually accurate.

 

There was a time when they couldn't wholly separate pve  mechanics from pvp, and adjustments occured that affected pve, because of pvp. Travel suppression was indeed one of them, which I have detailed before the how, why and what was said to try and "cover it up" from certain OG devs. So, not going to go into it again. I actually know first hand, as the day it went live I found a workaround that put hover nearly at flight speed and could kite, and that was patched shortly after. Jack was of a mind that powers shouldn't operate substantially differently between the two, because it would be alien, which was the direct cause. When he was ousted, there was a shift and they became separate, but the damage was done.

 

And, pvp was not intended from day 1, it was required by ncsoft at some point during early  development, because Korean MMo house and everything they did had a specific business model... but the game was not created for it and it was always a shoehorn.

[Solarverse]

PvP has been completely broken in this game and is no longer fun. Nerf after nerf after nerf has lead to too many meta PvP builds. Once upon a time, an Ice/Cold Corruptor was valid with their slows. Now, slows barely affect movement and you can't even notice a slow recharge affect. Saps used to work, now they are a joke. Holds, Immobs, CC in general is also a joke. Now PvP is all about damage damage damage, resist resist resist (because defense is also a joke now) and Super Speed + Superjump, all other travel powers deemed useless.

 

I miss PvP in this game, PvP was very fun in this game until the introduction of IOs. Around that same time came nerf after nerf and it all completely destroyed PvP for hard core PvPers such as I once was. 

 

The PvP in this game is so far beyond broken, it cannot be fixed. I will never PvP in this game again, not even for my beloved badges.

 

Sorry, I used to love PvP and I lived in Warburg and RV, I was very good at it, but after all the nerfs over the years brought on by crybabies, never again. 

 

P.S. Yes, I am bitter, salty and a mad bro.

 

TLDR; Sorry, I would not PvP in this game ever again....even if it meant that I had to do it in order to save this game from having the plug pulled again.

[MHertz]

No, it wouldn’t make me want to PVP. The question is, why would it make PVP any more fun for anybody? As it stands, there is a community of people who like to PVP, and who have a modicum of skill. I’ve heard PVP described on this thread as more exciting combat against more engaging enemies. Am I wrong, or does this idea propose to water down the experience? “I love PVP because it’s such a dynamic challenge! Let’s make it better by luring in some clueless and unenthusiastic loot-hunters!” I think not.

 

Besides, if the devs wanted prisms to be easier to get, all they have to do is tweak some drop rates. But as far as I know, they don’t want them to be super-available. If there were to be any loot, it wouldn’t be that.

Edited August 2, 2023 by MHertz

[UltraAlt]

21 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

once there are rare rewards

 

In PvP for defeating other players?

Multiboxer will just line up their weakest characters full of awakens, defeat them with their most powerful character as quickly as possible, toggle to rez them with the awakens, toggle back and defeat them before their dizzy from the awaken has ended, and repeat until they need to go back to a base to get more awakens so they can do it again. 

Giving anything lucrative for PvP is just going to turn PvP into a new form of farming abuse.

 

I didn't want to bring up how easily this can be abused and tried to target on how to organize something someone enjoyed, but it seems to be at the point that it had to be said clearly.

[honoroit]

1 minute ago, UltraAlt said:

 

In PvP for defeating other players?

Multiboxer will just line up their weakest characters full of awakens, defeat them with their most powerful character as quickly as possible, toggle to rez them with the awakens, toggle back and defeat them before their dizzy from the awaken has ended, and repeat until they need to go back to a base to get more awakens so they can do it again. 

Giving anything lucrative for PvP is just going to turn PvP into a new form of farming abuse.

 

I didn't want to bring up how easily this can be abused and tried to target on how to organize something someone enjoyed, but it seems to be at the point that it had to be said clearly.

 

theres so few of us, itd be crystal clear.

 

hmm, whats that cluster of n people in zone xyz engaging in multibox behaior 123.  oh, its these n accounts. talk to them, if you want to jiggle the player(s) / verify. 

 

maybe theyve hooked up chatgpt or ilk to their multibox?

 

maybe. 

 

more likely, admins know who does what, generally.

 

what stops bans, might only be weighed against - there arent a lot of people, so some slides.

 

step back to proceeds, thered be accrual, store, potential aggregate, and spend.  those player(s) would have oddity there.

[Neiska]

4 minutes ago, honoroit said:

 

theres so few of us, itd be crystal clear.

 

hmm, whats that cluster of n people in zone xyz engaging in multibox behaior 123.  oh, its these n accounts. talk to them, if you want to jiggle the player(s) / verify. 

 

maybe theyve hooked up chatgpt or ilk to their multibox?

 

maybe. 

 

more likely, admins know who does what, generally.

 

what stops bans, might only be weighed against - there arent a lot of people, so some slides.

 

step back to proceeds, thered be accrual, store, potential aggregate, and spend.  those player(s) would have oddity there.

 

Here is the thing - What that person is speaking about, isn't against any rules. People "are" allowed to multibox. As far as I am aware, so long as its not during peak periods, and no additional software is involved, then its fine. A person could already duel themselves in the arena if they wanted to. Just as multiboxing and AE farming isn't against the rules either, even though some players feel doing such is "cheating" when it really isn't. This isn't a race. There is no prize to be won. No reward or competition we are all competing for. This is a "sandbox" environment - make what you want, play as you like, go where you like, etc. Engaging in AE for profit is no different than say, making costumes, or bases for payment? Or winning costume contests and the like. It's just additional activities.

 

Now I agree, it might be against the "spirit" of the game, rather than the written rules. But I am skeptical of rulings against any "spirit" of the game arguments.

 

So, even if there were PVP rewards, and someone was multiboxing and pvping themselves, as far as I am aware there is no rules against it. And honestly, they are kind of setting themselves up, as it would be pretty difficult to multibox PVP. What I expect to happen is the other pvpers would just kill the multiboxer, or at least their alts. And that would be okay to do too. Since, you know, its pvp.

[honoroit]

if it brings people to the zones to pvp, and engages others as lure, and if.... it drops bloody prisms outside less than 5 activities at a rate >2/hr, sounds good to me!

[macskull]

5 hours ago, honoroit said:

if it brings people to the zones to pvp, and engages others as lure, and if.... it drops bloody prisms outside less than 5 activities at a rate >2/hr, sounds good to me!

I don't think it would. It would be a nice bonus for people who already PvP, but rewards you can already get more reliably from other sources aren't going to attract new players.

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

I don't think it would. It would be a nice bonus for people who already PvP, but rewards you can already get more reliably from other sources aren't going to attract new players.

I’m beginning to think his intent is not to bring in long term players.  At no time does he address how to help the new players learn, or how to retain them.

I think his only intent is to have more players to beat up on - whether they stick around or not is no concern.

[Spaghetti Betty]

If the concern is gaining prisms, then all the best players know the most efficient way is Advanced Difficulty TFs, so lead some of those, since you're clearly one of the best!

[honoroit]

2 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

If the concern is gaining prisms, then all the best players know the most efficient way is Advanced Difficulty TFs, so lead some of those, since you're clearly one of the best!

 

i dont even know how to start one.

 

my play loop is 1-50, and through the incarnate unlocks if i like the character.

 

then its typically, dismantle them, drag them off the first 2 pages of characters, and begin again.

 

so my accrual potential, outside farm for cash, is very low.

[honoroit]

18 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I’m beginning to think his intent is not to bring in long term players.  At no time does he address how to help the new players learn, or how to retain them.

I think his only intent is to have more players to beat up on - whether they stick around or not is no concern.

 

your reading my mind, kupo!

 

i would love nothing more than for everybody to be (forced, as a server option) to enjoy pvp with further integration in the game, and indeed with existing opportunity that exists.

 

i dont think the OP (me) intended the thread as a learning resource enumeration, or assessment of need therein amongst new player community.

 

but i would definately support such contribution.

 

anything that makes more pvp, and ideally drops more prisms - are my selfish intents.

Edited August 2, 2023 by honoroit

[Spaghetti Betty]

5 minutes ago, honoroit said:

 

i dont even know how to start one.

 

my play loop is 1-50, and through the incarnate unlocks if i like the character.

 

then its typically, dismantle them, drag them off the first 2 pages of characters, and begin again.

 

so my accrual potential, outside farm for cash, is very low.

Exposed!

 

You can start an Advanced Difficulty Aeon SF or ITF in the Task Force Settings window. Running a Relentless Aeon SF + the additional Vanguard Fight will net 30 PAPs. Running an Invincible ITF gives you 20.

 

Instead of suckering noobs into sacrificing themselves in pvp, I think it's much more fun suckering noobs into dying 300 times in a 2 hour raid!

 

Daj Bože!

[Ghost]

8 minutes ago, honoroit said:

 

your reading my mind, kupo!

 

i would love nothing more than for everybody to be (forced, as a server option) to enjoy pvp with further integration in the game, and indeed with existing opportunity that exists.

 

 

I am so confused.

If you force people into what YOU enjoy (PvP), aren’t YOU the only one who will enjoy it?

 

Then again, maybe that’s your only goal.  If so, all I can say is “Good Luck”