Why Blapper Over Scrapper?

[Frozen Burn]

I should also state.... "Once you Blap, you'll never go back!"  😄  

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I'll make sure to exclusively join your teams on my Blappers from now on!

 

I don't doubt it, lol. I can hear you now, "Hold on, switching to my BLAPPER!@!!!@!!!" lol

Edited August 28, 2023 by Solarverse

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Seriously though, please stay out of melee, it's too crowded already.

If I wanted to ignore half my AT's potential I'd play a Sentinel.

[Solarverse]

45 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

On a team, they aren't your mobs - they are the entire team's.  On a team, the tank's role is one of control - keep the mobs from looking at your teammates.  Gathering/herding can be a part of this to leverage gauntlet and your ranged taunt to make foes look at you easier - but again, that is your role to control the mobs in that way, so your teammates can do their part, - defeat them, buff/debuff, add further control, etc.  If you want them to be "your" mob only - then solo.  😛  

 

First, I was facetious, that is why at the end I said, "Seriously though" meaning, all joking aside...

 

Now, having said that, I have to ask, you don't play Tanks much on teams, do you? I am guessing you have never been pushed almost clear across the room due to too many players all trying to get in to the middle of mobs. If Blasters are doing more damage than Scrappers, or even doing as much damage as Scrappers, that is clearly a sign that the AT is broken. The last thing a Blaster should be wanting is to get in to melee distance of mobs. The fact Blappers exist tells me the fundamental problem is with the AT itself. The Mob area gets pretty darn crowded, adding Blasters to the list of ATs that gets within melee range is overkill IMO. Especially since it is an overkill that goes beyond the AT design.

[Solarverse]

7 minutes ago, macskull said:

If I wanted to ignore half my AT's potential I'd play a Sentinel.

 

That's pretty much my point, if a Blaster has potential to out play a Scrapper, that goes far beyond their potential and tells me that Blasters are a completely broken AT.

[Snarky]

9 hours ago, Rinwen said:

Hi, folks,

 

Again, I apologize for showing my ignorance, but... why Blapper over Scrapper? 

 

If your intent is to combine some ranged with a majority of melee, I get it... but if you're really just wanting melee, isn't the Scrapper a far better choice?

 

Is it a value to a team thing? A better at solo thing? Or just a concept thing?

 

The Scrapper now has pretty much all the same power options: Fire, Ice, Rad, Energy, Psi, Dark, Electric, etc, so I don't think it's a, "Gee, I wish I could have a Rad melee toon, guess I need to roll a Rad Blapper."

 

Do the Blapper melee attacks do more damage? 

 

Given the, (better?), defenses of the Scrapper aren't they the better "up close, in your face" option?

 

No, this isn't a troll thread. Yes, I tried some Google searches, but didn't find any threads on this, or the Reddit, forum discussing this comparison. 

 

I appreciate your insight, thank you. 

 

 

as has no doubt been pointed out 20 different ways....there is a ton of difference

 

Scrapper, solid melee.  Not the best protection, but good.  Hard hitting melee attacks

 

Blapper.  Blaster was built as an archetype truly catering to Blapper.  This is where it shines.  Not at range.  It is an all out assault at point blank range with NO mitigation besides your enemies death.  The damage it does will be embarrassing to any other "damage dealer" in the game.  But you have to know how to keep it alive or it will not matter.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Snarky

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

That's pretty much my point, if a Blaster has potential to out play a Scrapper, that goes far beyond their potential and tells me that Blasters are a completely broken AT.

The Scrapper is still going to do more damage in melee, but Blasters have strong melee attacks for a reason. At any rate, the Blaster is way more likely to get suddenly deleted from existence by stray mez or pulling aggro which I think balances out the damage potential.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Also, blasters now get "Contra Cheat Code" levels of recovery and regeneration

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

That's pretty much my point, if a Blaster has potential to out play a Scrapper, that goes far beyond their potential and tells me that Blasters are a completely broken AT.

insisting that a Brute, Scrapper, or Sentinel should be "balanced" in comparison to a Tank or Blaster on some perfect continuum will get you Jack, and no badge.

 

If you choose to play an AT that has not been favored by the many generations of Devs just go ahead.  But do not start explaining why your chosen AT should be changed to "be balanced" (increased in power.  

 

Now Brutes getting nerfed multiple times and then stuck with the worst Arch Type Origin enhancers?  I CAN bitch about that because I have played them pre nerf.  Although even I got the message and rarely play one now.  

[Captain Fabulous]

Also remember this dev team REALLY loves Blasters, so they are far and away more capable than they ever were on live. The only major hole for them is mez protection, which you can get from Incarnates.

[DrunkFlux]

I usually hybridize my builds with blaster, in fact, if I didn't want the melee attacks i'd just roll sentinel.

If your like me and tend to "joust"(jumping just before attack in range activates to ensure you keep moving), it becomes very easy to both hit them with melee while keeping at a happy medium distance.  This makes it easy to inflict very high single target damage, which the blaster melee attacks excel at, and enables you to be well positioned for ranged cone AoEs and easily target center targets.  Effectively, it keeps you in a excellent position.  I also joust myself so tankers are between me and anything that does agro onto me.

 

I see little reason to not take the single target melee attacks.  the PBAoE's on a blaster though, are not necessarily worth it, they can leave you poorly positioned for your ranged AoEs and expose you to more mob AoE fire than you need to be.

[FupDup]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

That's pretty much my point, if a Blaster has potential to out play a Scrapper, that goes far beyond their potential and tells me that Blasters are a completely broken AT.

IMO the issue is less about Blaster damage and more about their survival. Blasters have damage in both their primary and secondary powersets while Scrappers have a damage primary with armor secondary. The one with double damage sets should probably do equal or a bit more damage than the one that gets a survival set. 

 

The real problem is that a blaster can get fairly close to the tankiness of a Scrapper/Sentinel (depending on armor set) while also keeping all of that damage. The sustain powers in particular are just gross. 

[WumpusRat]

58 minutes ago, macskull said:

The Scrapper is still going to do more damage in melee, but Blasters have strong melee attacks for a reason. At any rate, the Blaster is way more likely to get suddenly deleted from existence by stray mez or pulling aggro which I think balances out the damage potential.

 

That's generally how it goes for blasters on the teams I've been on.

BOOM, lots of mobs get deleted. Blaster is laughing maniacally.

Oops, the bosses that survived got pissed and two-shot the blaster.

Especially running incarnate content, where the "capped defense" goals are FAR higher. So that 45% defense with zero defense debuff resist means absolutely squat.

The first time I found that out was on my traps defender, smugly assuming my 60% defense would be more than enough. Two debuffs later and I was looking at a red number where my defense used to be, and a bunch of pissed off talon boss mobs hitting me for hundreds of damage per swing. 

 

But I guess that's why people stick to Council farms in PI. They're like the training-wheels mobs at high level. 🙂

[Solarverse]

37 minutes ago, Snarky said:

insisting that a Brute, Scrapper, or Sentinel should be "balanced" in comparison to a Tank or Blaster on some perfect continuum will get you Jack, and no badge.

 

If you choose to play an AT that has not been favored by the many generations of Devs just go ahead.  But do not start explaining why your chosen AT should be changed to "be balanced" (increased in power.  

 

Now Brutes getting nerfed multiple times and then stuck with the worst Arch Type Origin enhancers?  I CAN bitch about that because I have played them pre nerf.  Although even I got the message and rarely play one now.  

 

Meh, my primary issue is that we have enough already soaking up the Melee room. The problem that nobody seems to be acknowledging is that being in melee range is like a game of musical chairs. There is only so much room for players in that circle of chairs. One too many creates a chaotic experience when your character is being pushed around by the flawed collision mechanics. If those collision mechanics were to be say...fixed, to where characters do not bump around other characters, then I wouldn't care one way or another how many players all want to be in the middle of a mob. However, until that changes, it will continue to be an annoyance to Tanks who are trying to stay centered with the Mobs and maintain aggro without being pushed outside those mobs.

"Blappers" add salt to the already open wound on this issue. A Blaster was supposed to be a Ranged Damage AT, but because of the sad design flaw that Blasters are, players have been playing them as if they are a Melee AT. I don't see that part ever changing, too many people would have a fit if that were to change, so the only logical solution here is to fix all the bumping around we are seeing with the flawed collision mechanics. If that gets fixed, problem solved.

[Nemu]

Once you joust your first inferno, you will never go back.

 

And if you joust your inferno you also solve solarverse' problem. You're not really in melee all that long, and by the time he hits taunt the team would have moved on to the next mob.

[Snarky]

33 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

"Blappers" add salt to the already open wound on this issue. A Blaster was supposed to be a Ranged Damage AT, but because of the sad design flaw that Blasters are, players have been playing them as if they are a Melee AT. I don't see that part ever changing, too many people would have a fit if that were to change, so the only logical solution here is to fix all the bumping around we are seeing with the flawed collision mechanics. If that gets fixed, problem solved.

Guess I am going down that dusty road again….

 

Just because some ad guy in marketing put “ranged damage dealer” in the archetype description does not negate the entirety of the original Devs work on Blasters.  These things were designed from the ground up as PBAoE monsters with added ranged attacks.  Look at the original powersets.  Trying to play these things as ranged you 1) give up a LOT of damage 2) get nothing in return.  With invention sets, new power sets, and power set revisions this has been slightly modified.  Yet it is still in the DNA of the archetype 

 

 

[SwitchFade]

iBlap says hello. He's a water/elec blaster.

 

He is invisible and strolls into melee. He doesn't leave melee.

 

Casually, he queues build, then aim.

 

Hmm. This looks like an interesting place to unload a nice hot OMGWTFBBSSAUCE NUKEDOG...

 

BOOM. Oh, and here's another mini electric nuke. And a mini water bomb nuke, and here.... Enjoy this whirly water thingy....

 

Hey, where did everyone go?

 

That's blaplife, all your playpals get dead and you have to find a new group of pals 

 

Oh, look, more friends!

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Guess I am going down that dusty road again….

 

Just because some ad guy in marketing put “ranged damage dealer” in the archetype description does not negate the entirety of the original Devs work on Blasters.  These things were designed from the ground up as PBAoE monsters with added ranged attacks.  Look at the original powersets.  Trying to play these things as ranged you 1) give up a LOT of damage 2) get nothing in return.  With invention sets, new power sets, and power set revisions this has been slightly modified.  Yet it is still in the DNA of the archetype 

 

 

 

Meh, I think most AT's were rushed. Remember, when this game was first shown to us, there were no AT's, there were no power sets. You picked whatever power you wanted. When the last minute change was added in to have AT's and power sets, I think they, in a rush, just threw it all together using the existing powers they had available, they were after all under a deadline. However, like you said, that is an old dusty road and there isn't much point in pushing the flip side to it, since it doesn't matter, we have what we have and it won't be changing. The only thing we can change is the collision mechanics so that it stops being a problem, until then, Blappers will continue to annoy me.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Solarverse
typo (have to had)

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, FupDup said:

IThe real problem is that a blaster can get fairly close to the tankiness of a Scrapper/Sentinel (depending on armor set) while also keeping all of that damage. The sustain powers in particular are just gross. 

One problem here is that Blasters aren't getting DDR. Soft cap all you want, but it won't take much for that Def to go bye bye.

[tidge]

14 hours ago, Rinwen said:

Hi, folks,

 

Again, I apologize for showing my ignorance, but... why Blapper over Scrapper?

 

 

 

[Frozen Burn]

10 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

First, I was facetious, that is why at the end I said, "Seriously though" meaning, all joking aside...

 

 

Now, having said that, I have to ask, you don't play Tanks much on teams, do you? I am guessing you have never been pushed almost clear across the room due to too many players all trying to get in to the middle of mobs. If Blasters are doing more damage than Scrappers, or even doing as much damage as Scrappers, that is clearly a sign that the AT is broken. The last thing a Blaster should be wanting is to get in to melee distance of mobs. The fact Blappers exist tells me the fundamental problem is with the AT itself. The Mob area gets pretty darn crowded, adding Blasters to the list of ATs that gets within melee range is overkill IMO. Especially since it is an overkill that goes beyond the AT design.

 

Yes, and the tongue out emoji ( 😛 ) I gave at end of mine means I caught your facetious tone - but your "Seriously though" comment echoed your joke, which also meant you weren't kidding.  so again... 😛  🙂 

 

 

And, I do play tanks a lot.  (And Scrappers, and Brutes, and all the other ATs too (except Sentinels - the filthy buggars, but I still have one)).  As a tank, I have no issues with others being in melee - including an entire team or league, even if they push or shove me around.  My movement keys work just fine and Taunt is a wonderful ranged power.  Moving and adjusting to foes and teammates is part of the game and frankly, keeps it from being monotonous by just standing still all the time.  I actually welcome the chaos - bring on the knock back too!  

 

But thinking a blaster is only a ranged AT is pure naivety when most of the secondaries have many powers that require you to be in melee range.  Since day 1 of the Live game, the Devs gave Blasters ST melee and PBAOE powers - so it is intended for them to be in melee range.    

 

Additionally, Blasters have been doing top damage out of all the ATs for a long time, well before the game shut down.  The AT isn't broken, they're just naked offensive juggernauts with no shield secondaries - their offense IS their defense and being coupled with many melee powers in their secondaries, that's why they get the highest modifier.  Again, not broken, just balanced with the other ATs.  High risk = high reward.  That's why Sentinels get a much lower modifier:  all ranged and a shield set.  (With scrappers and brutes are in between.)  

 

You may not like any of this - blasters being in melee range or that they do top damage - but that's okay and is your opinion.  And I respect that. 👍  But it isn't a flaw in the design of the AT.  The Devs made Blasters to be this way - they are as intended.  And many of us like playing them to their full potential.  🙂  

[Solarverse]

43 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

Yes, and the tongue out emoji ( 😛 ) I gave at end of mine means I caught your facetious tone - but your "Seriously though" comment echoed your joke, which also meant you weren't kidding.  so again... 😛  🙂 

 

 

And, I do play tanks a lot.  (And Scrappers, and Brutes, and all the other ATs too (except Sentinels - the filthy buggars, but I still have one)).  As a tank, I have no issues with others being in melee - including an entire team or league, even if they push or shove me around.  My movement keys work just fine and Taunt is a wonderful ranged power.  Moving and adjusting to foes and teammates is part of the game and frankly, keeps it from being monotonous by just standing still all the time.  I actually welcome the chaos - bring on the knock back too!  

 

But thinking a blaster is only a ranged AT is pure naivety when most of the secondaries have many powers that require you to be in melee range.  Since day 1 of the Live game, the Devs gave Blasters ST melee and PBAOE powers - so it is intended for them to be in melee range.    

 

Additionally, Blasters have been doing top damage out of all the ATs for a long time, well before the game shut down.  The AT isn't broken, they're just naked offensive juggernauts with no shield secondaries - their offense IS their defense and being coupled with many melee powers in their secondaries, that's why they get the highest modifier.  Again, not broken, just balanced with the other ATs.  High risk = high reward.  That's why Sentinels get a much lower modifier:  all ranged and a shield set.  (With scrappers and brutes are in between.)  

 

You may not like any of this - blasters being in melee range or that they do top damage - but that's okay and is your opinion.  And I respect that. 👍  But it isn't a flaw in the design of the AT.  The Devs made Blasters to be this way - they are as intended.  And many of us like playing them to their full potential.  🙂  

 

I am convinced that there is some City of Heroes happy drug being passed around that literally nothing bothers anybody, lol. I hear ya, man. I truly wish I could be as care free about everything as you are...if you guys are on some happy drug, please send it my way so I can not only be okay with problems, like being shoved around and having mobs scattered all over creation, to where the only person who gets enjoyment out of scattering the mobs, is the first person who does it, everyone else gets to hit one, maybe two NPCs with their AoE, or be okay with controllers locking those mobs down AFTER they have been scattered, and not only be okay with it, but love it...then give me that drug too. I know you guys and gals have this drug...stop being so secretive with it!

And yes, Sents imo never made sense to me and was the biggest mistake the Devs made in this game second only to knock back, PvP and the aggro cap being lowered to such an extreme low. But, if I too had this wonderful care-free drug you all are taking...maybe I could like that too?  lol  😜

[TheOtherTed]

Style points.  I know people have an irrational hatred for KB around here, but there are very few things as satisfying in this game as knocking an enemy off a ledge with Power Thrust or Ki Push, hopping onto a balcony rail, and finishing them off with Blazing Arrow (or, you know, one of those other blasts; I won't judge).

 

And don't worry, Tanker types - my blapper playstyle usually involves targeting those enemies who somehow miraculously escape from your precious and infallible aggro field.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by TheOtherTed
Bears!

[Solarverse]

19 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

Style points.  I know people have an irrational hatred for KB around here, but there are very few things as satisfying in this game as knocking an enemy off a ledge with Power Thrust or Ki Push, hopping onto a balcony rail, and finishing them off with Blazing Arrow (or, you know, one of those other blasts; I won't judge).

 

And don't worry, Tanker types - my blapper playstyle usually involves targeting those enemies who somehow miraculously escape from your precious and infallible aggro field.

 

 

 

 

Honestly, knock back doesn't bother me, single target knock back anyway. A blaster has the ability to destroy the target he/she knocks back. It's the AoE that scatters the mob that ticks me off. The mentality of, "You not wanting me to knock back takes from my enjoyment of the game" tends to trump, "Your knock back takes from my enjoyment of the game" for some strange reason that I have never been able to wrap my mind around. Even worse than that though, because knocked back targets tend to run back to the tank if they are allowed to do so, trollers often lock those targets in place AFTER those targets have been scattered. I never say anything in team because...well, somehow my opinion has become the minority over the years, even though at one time my opinion was in the strong majority. I just let it go and play accordingly whenever it happens. I might bitch about it to my wife, or she will bitch about it to me, but neither of us says a word outwardly unless it is on these forums, and only I post the forums, so you only hear half the bitching, lol. She sees what I write and sees the responses, she doesn't want any part of these forums, lol...but when talking to each other, she hates the knock back and random locking down of mobs just as much as I do. I myself have a Blapper (I know, out comes the lynching of, "After all that you said to us and YOU have a Blapper!?!?" comments) however, I don't work my way in to center of mobs and intrude upon the small Space that is being occupied by the Tank, I don't try and annoy the Tank with my unwanted presence in the center of those mobs, I go to the edge of those mobs and unleash my terror. Oddly enough, I do just as well outside the mobs as I have seen Blappers do inside the mobs. Big AoE and all. So I play as respectful to other players as possible. So it's not so much the hate of knock back or blappers, but more of how I have seen players utilize that knock back and blappers.

[Snarky]

55 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

I am convinced that there is some City of Heroes happy drug being passed around that literally nothing bothers anybody, lol. I hear ya, man. I truly wish I could be as care free about everything as you are...if you guys are on some happy drug, please send it my way so I can not only be okay with problems, like being shoved around and having mobs scattered all over creation, to where the only person who gets enjoyment out of scattering the mobs, is the first person who does it, everyone else gets to hit one, maybe two NPCs with their AoE, or be okay with controllers locking those mobs down AFTER they have been scattered, and not only be okay with it, but love it...then give me that drug too. I know you guys and gals have this drug...stop being so secretive with it!

And yes, Sents imo never made sense to me and was the biggest mistake the Devs made in this game second only to knock back, PvP and the aggro cap being lowered to such an extreme low. But, if I too had this wonderful care-free drug you all are taking...maybe I could like that too?  lol  😜

It's called Excelsior.  You just do not care anymore.  You can cut off your arms and bolt on mechanical ones and keep smiling.

 

Excelsior.  It makes life good.