Lets talk Regeneration Set

[cranebump]

3 hours ago, liveevil2000 said:

I never asked if it was good. 

Very well, then. I guess if we need to get technical, we should take a look at what you asked:

 

I've been wanting to use the Regeneration set for a while, but after looking it over, it seems to have extremely limited Def/Res. So making a Tank, Brute, Scrapper, etc... utilizing this set seems like it would be tough to survive. Or am I missing something? I get it allows you to gain HP back at an accelerated rate and has self heals, but is that (good) enough to survive / offset the amount of damage coming in?

 

Yeah, I "edited" that a bit.:-) Anyhoo, here I'd still ask: to survive what? Are you wanting to breeze through +4/x8? Or have a casual story run? Then again, if you're just looking for every response under the sun, I'd say we have a Mission Accomplished there. In any case, I commented about the parameters of your request because, if I don't know what your "(good) enough" is, I don't know how to give you the best information (or whether to provide any at all, as what you desire may not lie within my level of expertise). Plus, everyone will respond with what they consider "enough," since they don't know what you want. Which leads to this free-for-all, meandering journey back into Regen. Again.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by cranebump

[liveevil2000]

That's fair.

 

My play style would be general content (TFs, Radio Missions (Team or solo), etc...)

In a team environment, I have no doubt it would do well, since I can rely on others to do their part for the team's success.

Solo, where I can only rely on myself would be another story. No I'm not talking about +4/8, Can it deal with missions on it's own? Can it handle Freakshow, Carnies, etc... especially at the mid level range where things get rougher with limited Resist/Def?

Defeat is part of the game and every AT no matter the set combo licks concrete at some point. That's the way it is. The question still remains, will that defensive set do enough to give a melee character who WILL take punishment a fighting chance?

Apparently some people say yes, and some disagree.

I intend to find out.

In for a penny, in for a pound, to hell with the test, I'm making a Regen character and I'll find out myself.

[Snokle]

From what people have said, Sentinel seems to have the best version of regeneration, because of the overload of health buffer you can get. I have not tested it out myself so I cannot talk too much about that.

 

I have done regen on stalker and scrapper, and personally I enjoyed it and felt it was a fun set to play around with and have fun as I like the more reactive gameplay at times. The key thing is always to offset the initial Alpha strike, which can be looming for regen as you said low def/res values, it is possible with planning and using of course epic powers and incarnate system.

 

Stalker had some fun utilizing stealth and their alpha strike to remove major problems, but the low HP cap it originally had made is glass canony at times. Is regen alone good enough to mitigate damage taken, if you have a massive HP pool it is possible, so brute does have the advantage there, but usually having a mix of layered defense will help it out, aside from the low level amount of endurance consumption the set offers too.

 

If you take it in a vacuum, with no knowledge of primary, against a mix of enemies it will be a yes and no how it handles, some will wreck it with -regen or -recharge, while others will not be much of a fuss.

[cranebump]

7 minutes ago, liveevil2000 said:

Solo, where I can only rely on myself would be another story. No I'm not talking about +4/8, Can it deal with missions on it's own? Can it handle Freakshow, Carnies, etc... especially at the mid level range where things get rougher with limited Resist/Def?

Ah. Well, then...that confirms my complete ignorance on the subject.:-) (I'm actually interested to know this, as well).

 

As for your current dive into the deep end, I look forward to your report. (there WILL be a report, yessss?):-)

[liveevil2000]

11 minutes ago, cranebump said:

As for your current dive into the deep end, I look forward to your report. (there WILL be a report, yessss?):-)

Absolutely!!

[carroto]

23 hours ago, Solarverse said:

your Defense and Resistances and you have absolutely no DDR or RDR to speak of

 

Resistance inherently resists resistance debuffs.  It's not something special that armor sets get.  So if you can built up some resistance on a Regen character, regardless of source, you get the same resistance to debuffs that a resistance set gets with the same amount of damage resistance.

 

Resistance.

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, liveevil2000 said:

I dont think I'd have access to Shockwave until lvl26 and for this test I'd going to 25. But even so, it's still even ground I would think. I'm sure every offensive set would have some kind of mitigation to it from higher DPS to finish off things quicker to disorienting and KB.

 

could always just have a toon stand there and take a pounding and see how long it takes to hit the pavement ... but what fun is that?

 

So you are trying to find out how well balanced armor sets are while skipping on taking two of the powers and powers are dealing with limited slotting. I don't think there's going to be much useful info coming from this. 

[Solarverse]

23 minutes ago, carroto said:

 

Resistance inherently resists resistance debuffs.  It's not something special that armor sets get.  So if you can built up some resistance on a Regen character, regardless of source, you get the same resistance to debuffs that a resistance set gets with the same amount of damage resistance.

 

Resistance.

 

Mind showing me where this is true? I see no evidence of this literally anywhere.

[Solarverse]

I'm sorry, @The Chairman, I see you have some issue with my statements even though you have nothing to contribute to them. Mind explaining to me why you thumbed down all my posts, or were you just trolling?

[Solarverse]

14 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I'm sorry, @The Chairman, I see you have some issue with my statements even though you have nothing to contribute to them. Mind explaining to me why you thumbed down all my posts, or were you just trolling?

 

That's what I thought...

[Solarverse]

50 minutes ago, carroto said:

 

Resistance inherently resists resistance debuffs.  It's not something special that armor sets get.  So if you can built up some resistance on a Regen character, regardless of source, you get the same resistance to debuffs that a resistance set gets with the same amount of damage resistance.

 

Resistance.

 

Hmmmm, you may be on to something though, despite my thoughts, I can't find any evidence for or against your statement. Even worse, I can't find any evidence that RDR is even something that exists...at least not on paper.

[Without_Pause]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmmm, you may be on to something though, despite my thoughts, I can't find any evidence for or against your statement. Even worse, I can't find any evidence that RDR is even something that exists...at least not on paper.

@Snarkyswears by this idea, and I believe he's done work looking at combat stats to prove it. 

[TheZag]

2 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmmm, you may be on to something though, despite my thoughts, I can't find any evidence for or against your statement. Even worse, I can't find any evidence that RDR is even something that exists...at least not on paper.

 

Resistance debuff resistance is the same as your resistance.  90% smashing resistance gives a 90% smashing debuff resistance.  5% resistance would resist 5% of a resistance debuff.  Going over the 90% 'cap' to 100% will make you immune to resistance debuffs.  It was tested against enemies with stacking resistance debuffs - when the player had 100% resistance and several hundred percent of debuffs,  their actual resist stayed at the 90% cap.  When a toggle was turned off that brought the character below 100%,  their resistance tanked to 20ish%.  Turning the toggle back on to give 100% resist immediately brought the character back to the 90% resist cap.

 

[drbuzzard]

The sentinel version of regeneration is pretty solid. The trick they used there was turning IH into a quick replenishing absorption shield called 'instant regeneration'. This works pretty damned well. It gives a lot of the feel of old regeneration, but without being over the top. Personally I think just porting that version over to the ATs would be the best solution. 

 

Well, other than nerfing regen for the sake of tradition. 

[liveevil2000]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

So you are trying to find out how well balanced armor sets are while skipping on taking two of the powers and powers are dealing with limited slotting. I don't think there's going to be much useful info coming from this. 

I think you misunderstood, I was going to lvl25 originally, taking every power up to that point. I was stating, Shockwave I believe is unlocked at 26. but I'm scrapping the whole test idea and just making an AT with Regen and see how it works out. If I enjoy the way it plays, great, if not, then that toon goes to the wayside.

regardless of the outcome, I will let you guys know my thoughts without any bias for or against the powerset.

Edited September 20, 2023 by liveevil2000

[Solarverse]

21 minutes ago, TheZag said:

 

Resistance debuff resistance is the same as your resistance.  90% smashing resistance gives a 90% smashing debuff resistance.  5% resistance would resist 5% of a resistance debuff.  Going over the 90% 'cap' to 100% will make you immune to resistance debuffs.  It was tested against enemies with stacking resistance debuffs - when the player had 100% resistance and several hundred percent of debuffs,  their actual resist stayed at the 90% cap.  When a toggle was turned off that brought the character below 100%,  their resistance tanked to 20ish%.  Turning the toggle back on to give 100% resist immediately brought the character back to the 90% resist cap.

 

 

Hmmm, that is very fascinating. So does this actually mean that it is as @carroto states, that it doesn't matter where that Resistance comes from? I mean, it sounds like that is what you are saying, just wanted to be sure.

[liveevil2000]

As a side comment, I do appreciate the input from all you fine folks. Most of this stuff was really interesting to read. So if I didn't give a like to your post, here is a global Thumbs up

👍

[cranebump]

38 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

The sentinel version of regeneration is pretty solid. The trick they used there was turning IH into a quick replenishing absorption shield called 'instant regeneration'. This works pretty damned well. It gives a lot of the feel of old regeneration, but without being over the top. Personally I think just porting that version over to the ATs would be the best solution. 

 

Well, other than nerfing regen for the sake of tradition. 

Ah. That explains why I've had decent experiences with Regen. Seems like you have a reasonable suggestion there, as well.

[kelika2]

even at max hardcap regen it still takes 10 seconds to fully heal from 1hp.  the amount of things that can happen in that time is insane

needs things to supplement the mechanic "regeneration".  like a heal over time from nature/cauterizing wounds, or an absorb/ignore pain

or +healing sets effecting things that cause regeneration.   your doctored wounds set bonus does not effect integ, fast healing, instant, etc

 

honestly its been about 15-7 years since regen was playable.  we should just sunset the set and offer a free level 50 token to anyone who had a significantly leveled enough regen alt

 

---

it also does not help that most healing sets are not geared to melee or ranged defense

Edited September 20, 2023 by kelika2
---

[Psyonico]

Not reading this whole thread, but my summary

 

Regen on sentinels is actually pretty good

Regen on Brutes is ok as long as you don't plan on tanking

Regen on scrappers/stalkers: avoid like the plague

[catsi563]

Meh I stand on the one and only real fix Regen needs which is to make Instant healing a toggle again 

 

do that and regen will be fine

 

[TheZag]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmm, that is very fascinating. So does this actually mean that it is as @carroto states, that it doesn't matter where that Resistance comes from? I mean, it sounds like that is what you are saying, just wanted to be sure.

 

Yes,  outside buffs or set bonuses that put you to 100% resistance will make you immune and restore full resistance if you were debuffed.

 

[America's Angel]

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, catsi563 said:

Meh I stand on the one and only real fix Regen needs which is to make Instant healing a toggle again 

 

do that and regen will be fine

 

 

Well, shoot, why not make Moment of Glory a toggle as well then?  

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmmm, you may be on to something though, despite my thoughts, I can't find any evidence for or against your statement. Even worse, I can't find any evidence that RDR is even something that exists...at least not on paper.

When Dr Aeon came out and the Brickers starting putting the hurt on Resistance this was discussed in depth by much more serious players and builders than me.  Just like with Calculus I do not invent anything.  I quote smart people and memorize their formulas

 

Resistance is it's own Resistance debuff Resistance.  This is perhaps the simplest mechanic in CoH and that by itself makes it near unbelievable.  Yet it is true.  There are a very few enemies in game (I can think of one, a random LB Warden) that have a Res debuff that is irresistable.  Against everything else the value is your current Res value.  So at 100%....