Focused Feedback: Various Power Updates

[TinyJuggs]

 

6 hours ago, kidsnowflake said:

 

Agreed, the Hidden->AS->Hide Proc->Critical loop is what made stalkers fun again for me after hating them for years. I'd hate to see this removed.

Yea im not an experienced player, but this seems like an huge nerf to AS/hide from stalkers guile proc. 

 

So with this change if you take damage the hide from stalkers guile proc will be removed?

 

This will basically reduce the viability of stalker by a lot.

Edited January 25 by TinyJuggs

[Player-1]

Hello everyone, 

 

Regarding Stalkers, it would be best to test the different configurations to ensure if the behaviors are indeed broken or working as intended. If they do break, please show proof in this thread and it can be addressed.

[Pazta]

32 minutes ago, Player-1 said:

Hello everyone, 

 

Regarding Stalkers, it would be best to test the different configurations to ensure if the behaviors are indeed broken or working as intended. If they do break, please show proof in this thread and it can be addressed.

It's part of the fix's language in the patch notes is because it was already tested and confirmed to behave this way in closed testing. Having any damage break the 'Hidden' status given by these powers/proc is working as intended(see attached img below. 'Hidden' is called "Meter" internally), but that's contrary to how it has worked ever since this bug has existed, and as a consequence of fixing it, the fix has made Placate and the ATO substantially less useful than when the bug was present. This has the knock-on effect of being a massive nerf to resistance Stalkers' damage output, as well as making the mechanic less consistent for any Stalkers, as well as Soldiers of Arachnos. My feedback stands: The Cancel On Damage Flag in Placate and Stalker's Guile makes those powers/procs inconsistent in gameplay, and they need to lose Cancel On Damage Flag for the 'Hidden' portion of the effect.

[Kaballah]

14 hours ago, Wravis said:

Easier to use and significantly worse.

I mean, yes, that is the tradeoff. Would you rather it was harder to use and the same numerically? I'd be okay with that personally, w/e

[Coyotedancer]

2 hours ago, Player-1 said:

Hello everyone, 

 

Regarding Stalkers, it would be best to test the different configurations to ensure if the behaviors are indeed broken or working as intended. If they do break, please show proof in this thread and it can be addressed.

 

If your intention is to make the proc much less useful than it currently is outside of beta... then yes. It's "working as intended". 

 

If that was NOT the intention of the change, then the "cancel on Damage" tag needs to be removed from the proc's re-Hide. 

 

 

ETA: For some specific data... Running the same mission (Stop the Tsoo Mercy Killings) at the same difficulty (+4x1) from Sha in DA on White Thorn (Non-soft-capped KM/Bio Stalker with the proc in her AS attack-), she gets the proc's re-Hide effect roughly half the time, rather using the slow or fast version of the power. On live, she gets a crit with the follow-up for each of those. Right now on beta she gets that crit on an average of one follow-up attack in three when the re-Hide happens, because in-coming damage breaks the effect before the attack. 

 

Obviously, a stalker with a soft-capped Defense build will see less of a difference, but do you REALLY want to encourage even more people to go "Defense or Bust!!!!" than already do? This is definitely going to be a bigger hit for Res-based builds or those of us who go for regen monsters instead of All Defense All The Time.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25 by Coyotedancer

[Crysis]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:37 AM, Kai Moon said:

	-Res	-Def	-Rech	-Run, -Jump
Defender Freezing Rain	35→40%	30%	50%	70%
Defender Sleet	30%	30%	40%	50→40%
Mastermind Freezing Rain	30%	30→18%	40%	50→56%
Mastermind Sleet	30→22.5%	30→18%	40→32%	50→32%

First, the patch notes don't say Sleet's run and jump speed debuffs were supposed to be lowered from 50% to 40%. Was this inadvertent?

 

Second, although Defender Sleet's numbers have always been worse than Defender Freezing Rain's, that was because Issue 6 copypasted the weaker Controller version of Freezing Rain to Sleet for Corruptors (which was fine), then Issue 12 copypasted Sleet back to Defenders without giving it better stats (which was not fine).

 

The Page 7 changes would extend the weirdness of Sleet being strictly worse than Freezing Rain, apples-to-apples, for all archetypes.

 

To avoid that, you could make Freezing Rain better at resist debuffs, Sleet better at something else. Slows or end cost perhaps. Or you could make Sleet equal to Freezing Rain, as it was for all ATs except defenders.

 

The changes to Mastermind FR and Sleet -specifically to nerf the -DEF debuffs- makes zero sense when you realize the level shifts inherent in our henchmen.  You are just making it THAT much harder for their attacks to land and/or for them to have any meaningful damage output.  

 

 

[SwitchFade]

10 hours ago, Player-1 said:

Hello everyone, 

 

Regarding Stalkers, it would be best to test the different configurations to ensure if the behaviors are indeed broken or working as intended. If they do break, please show proof in this thread and it can be addressed.

 

With all due respect, this is not an issue of testing configurations to assure it behaves properly, but one of intent.

 

The actual change works exactly as the patch note deacribes, in that it now completely alters how stalkers work, the rehide and strike is interrupted by damage.

 

That's a wholesale mechanical change to how the enhance has worked since 2019 and a reduction in damage output of 50% at a minimum.

 

I dont really care if how it has always worked since 2019 is considered "not correct," it's not broken in efficacy and this change is, honestly, terrible.

 

As I said, I have been thoroughly understanding of adjustments previously, but this is quite literally a bridge too far.

 

This, the bonfire neuter, the sleet reduction and the council revamp are enough to staunch any desire to log in.

Edited January 26 by SwitchFade

[Frosticus]

So maybe I'm missing something, but I ran my em/ea stalker through two scenarios.

1. Lanaruu AV fight. 

Live: can't placate into crit TF because freezing rain dot breaks my hidden status before TF begins animating

Test: same results

 

2. Sweeping the war walls in Cim

Live: rarely an issue getting TF to crit after placate for double focus

Test: rarely an issue getting TF to crit after placate for double focus

 

2.b Testing Hide proc on the war walls

*My hide proc is in TF and I follow with ET (for crit+self heal

Live: no issues getting the self heal in a pack

Test: no issues getting the self heal in a pack

 

But I've always assuming incoming damage breaks hidden (crit), so I always do my best to ensure I immediately attack after placate/hide proc activates.

In fairness my main stalkers are shield and ea so I don't have a high level resistance based one to test with. 

 

I'll test out some other scenarios, but I'm not sure what I should be seeking with this change?

[Troo]

Both of these should work roughly 4 time per minute, right? (if AS has the Hide Proc slotted)

 

Hidden->AS->Hide Proc->Critical

Placate ->AS->Hide Proc->Critical

 

@SwitchFade you're saying:

 

Hidden->AS->Hide Proc->(incoming damage cancels hide)->No Critical

 

This would be expected if taking DOT, wouldn't it?

Should this be the case if a target's attack was started before the hide proc activated but the damage came after the hide proc? Oof, I dunno..

 

Placate on the other hand should not care. DOT or remnant damage should not break hide only an attack by the player should break hide.

 

I think I'm confused on what isn't working. Is it the damage applying after the Hide Proc is canceling the Hide?

 

from hide with the proc in BS..

[21:59:47] You activated the Bone Smasher power.
[21:59:48] HIT Crab Spider Slicer! Your Bone Smasher power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 11.51.
[21:59:48] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[21:59:48] You enter a hidden state.
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Bone Smasher for 418.43 points of Energy damage.
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Bone Smasher for 187.45 points of Smashing damage.
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Bone Smasher for 686.23 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Reactive Interface for 41.49 points of Fire damage over time.

 

from hide..

[22:05:06] You activated the Bone Smasher power.

[22:05:07] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:05:07] You enter a hidden state.
[22:05:07] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Bone Smasher for 199.58 points of Energy damage.
[22:05:07] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Bone Smasher for 143.7 points of Smashing damage.
[22:05:07] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Bone Smasher for 327.32 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:05:08] Bane Spider Executioner MISSES! Mace Beam Blast power had a 6.82% chance to hit, but rolled a 16.79.
[22:05:11] Bane Spider Executioner MISSES! Mace Beam Volley power had a 6.82% chance to hit, but rolled a 56.84.
[22:05:11] You activated the Total Focus power.
[22:05:11] Bone Smasher is recharged.
[22:05:13] HIT Crab Spider Webmaster! Your Total Focus power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 56.47.
[22:05:13] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus for 222.23 points of Smashing damage.
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus for 505.71 points of Energy damage.
[22:05:13] You Stun Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus.
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus for 197.54 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:05:13] You Hold Crab Spider Webmaster with your Blistering Cold: Recharge/Chance for Hold.
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Reactive Interface for 19.78 points of Fire damage over time.

 

from hide..

[22:15:04] You activated the Bone Smasher power.
[22:15:04] Troo hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10 points of endurance.
[22:15:04] You hit Troo with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10 points of endurance.
[22:15:05] HIT Mu Adept! Your Bone Smasher power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 65.35.
[22:15:05] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:15:05] You enter a hidden state.
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Bone Smasher for 115.06 points of Energy damage.
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Bone Smasher for 133.89 points of Smashing damage.
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Bone Smasher for 188.71 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Reactive Interface for 13.48 points of Fire damage over time.
[22:15:05] You activated the Energy Punch power.
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Reactive Interface for 13.48 points of Fire damage over time.
[22:15:06] Mu Adept MISSES! Lightning Blast power had a 6.90% chance to hit, but rolled a 40.82.
[22:15:06] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Energy Punch for 92.4 points of Energy damage.
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Energy Punch for 71.99 points of Smashing damage.
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Energy Punch for 132 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 91.28 points of Negative Energy damage.

Edited January 26 by Troo

[TinyJuggs]

7 hours ago, Troo said:

Both of these should work roughly 4 time per minute, right? (if AS has the Hide Proc slotted)

 

Hidden->AS->Hide Proc->Critical

Placate ->AS->Hide Proc->Critical

 

@SwitchFade you're saying:

 

Hidden->AS->Hide Proc->(incoming damage cancels hide)->No Critical

 

This would be expected if taking DOT, wouldn't it?

Should this be the case if a target's attack was started before the hide proc activated but the damage came after the hide proc? Oof, I dunno..

 

Placate on the other hand should not care. DOT or remnant damage should not break hide only an attack by the player should break hide.

 

I think I'm confused on what isn't working. Is it the damage applying after the Hide Proc is canceling the Hide?

 

from hide with the proc in BS..

[21:59:47] You activated the Bone Smasher power.
[21:59:48] HIT Crab Spider Slicer! Your Bone Smasher power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 11.51.
[21:59:48] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[21:59:48] You enter a hidden state.
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Bone Smasher for 418.43 points of Energy damage.
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Bone Smasher for 187.45 points of Smashing damage.
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Bone Smasher for 686.23 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[21:59:48] You hit Crab Spider Slicer with your Reactive Interface for 41.49 points of Fire damage over time.

 

from hide..

[22:05:06] You activated the Bone Smasher power.

[22:05:07] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:05:07] You enter a hidden state.
[22:05:07] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Bone Smasher for 199.58 points of Energy damage.
[22:05:07] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Bone Smasher for 143.7 points of Smashing damage.
[22:05:07] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Bone Smasher for 327.32 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:05:08] Bane Spider Executioner MISSES! Mace Beam Blast power had a 6.82% chance to hit, but rolled a 16.79.
[22:05:11] Bane Spider Executioner MISSES! Mace Beam Volley power had a 6.82% chance to hit, but rolled a 56.84.
[22:05:11] You activated the Total Focus power.
[22:05:11] Bone Smasher is recharged.
[22:05:13] HIT Crab Spider Webmaster! Your Total Focus power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 56.47.
[22:05:13] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus for 222.23 points of Smashing damage.
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus for 505.71 points of Energy damage.
[22:05:13] You Stun Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus.
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Total Focus for 197.54 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:05:13] You Hold Crab Spider Webmaster with your Blistering Cold: Recharge/Chance for Hold.
[22:05:13] You hit Crab Spider Webmaster with your Reactive Interface for 19.78 points of Fire damage over time.

 

from hide..

[22:15:04] You activated the Bone Smasher power.
[22:15:04] Troo hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10 points of endurance.
[22:15:04] You hit Troo with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10 points of endurance.
[22:15:05] HIT Mu Adept! Your Bone Smasher power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 65.35.
[22:15:05] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:15:05] You enter a hidden state.
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Bone Smasher for 115.06 points of Energy damage.
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Bone Smasher for 133.89 points of Smashing damage.
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Bone Smasher for 188.71 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:15:05] You hit Mu Adept with your Reactive Interface for 13.48 points of Fire damage over time.
[22:15:05] You activated the Energy Punch power.
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Reactive Interface for 13.48 points of Fire damage over time.
[22:15:06] Mu Adept MISSES! Lightning Blast power had a 6.90% chance to hit, but rolled a 40.82.
[22:15:06] You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Energy Punch for 92.4 points of Energy damage.
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Energy Punch for 71.99 points of Smashing damage.
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Energy Punch for 132 points of Energy damage (CRITICAL).
[22:15:06] You hit Mu Adept with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 91.28 points of Negative Energy damage.

 

I think that the traditional hide mechanic and the proc based hide mechanic are two different things from my understanding. 

 

The traditional hide should break if damage is taken. Say you walk into an enemy group with aoe.

 

The proc based hide isn't actually a hide that makes you hidden from enemies as you don't get rid of any aggro. It is a hide mechanic solely to allow a critical attack. 

 

So let's say you're taking dot damage, or there is an incoming attack the moment after you trigger the proc based hide. You Will lose your proc based hide and next attack wont be a guaranteed critical. 

 

Currently on live when proc based hide occurs and you take damage you don't lose the status to crit.

 

That's my understanding at least. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited January 26 by TinyJuggs

[Coyotedancer]

The actual Hide power and damage is an odd thing... Once upon a time, way back when, when Stalkers were new, there was a time when taking ANY damage at all would break the effect... Even something like jumping off of a balcony, using your own CJ or *running down a steep hill* would kick you out of Hide. The OG devs realized pretty quickly that that was silly and changed it. Minor damage like that no longer breaks a Stalker's Hide these days.

 

That said, if you're doing something like standing in a fire patch or next to the Spine Bursting Longbow Warden it absolutely WILL break it if the "attack" makes it past your innately pretty ludicrous AOE Defense.

 

What's happening here is a little different. The Proc effect Hide as it stands now outside of beta doesn't cancel if damage lands before the follow-up attack happens, allowing you to get a second Crit attack. It otherwise functions like ordinary Hide... You can absolutely do things like one-shotting a member of a group with your AS, have the proc fire, and then wander over... completely unseen... to stab that goon's unobservant buddy in the spleen exactly as if you'd done it without the proc and waited for regular Hide to return naturally. (You can't pull that off if his buddy is paying attention and sees you, of course... But you couldn't with regular Hide, either.)

 

I have no clue how that's coded on the back end, but that's the behavior.

 

For the rest of you testing it... Look at your Defense numbers. If you're soft-capped, you're less likely to get hit so you're less likely to notice any change. You need to try this with NON soft-capped characters (Or better yet, a full-on Resist or regeneration build-) to see the difference. 

 

I know, I know. No one should be building melees that aren't soft-capped. The Meta has spoken.... But some of us are rebels. We don't get with the program and in this case it's biting us.

 

 

 

Edited January 26 by Coyotedancer

[Cotys]

after having tested out the new TK, it NEEDS its recharge and end cost looked at or this potentially cool new power will stay a sure skip 

 

EDIT mind in general needs a recharge overpass

Edited January 27 by Cotys

[Arcadio]

TK in the epic sets doesn't have the immobilize portion so the enemies just fly around and rubber band back to the specified distance. It looks really strange so I'm assuming it's not intended. 

[Chaos Ex Machina]

Sleet

Controller/Corruptor: -Res lowered from -30% to -22.5%

 

Freezing Rain

Defender: -Res increased from -35% to -40%

 

I am sure the obvious answer for the different approah is 'because Storm needs help while Cold does not'

 

Still it would be great to get the confirmation that these different methods of making them AT specific indeed have that reason

 

Also Tar Patch received similar AT nerfing before [instead of simply buffing defender values]

 

Was Dark considered too strong then or was buffing defenders just not brought up for a potential solution?

[Kaika]

I have to agree with those stating that this stalker change is unnecessary and damaging to the class. Res sets on stalker already get a bad rep as is and all this will do is make the situation worse. In the middle of a large group combat, there are usually plenty of AoEs flying around even on a team, even with capped def it's not uncommon to get hit by something or have a DoT effect on you, effectively rendering this proc useless. Currently this proc is considered essential to stalker play, and by nerfing it, you are in turn nerfing stalkers as a whole.

 

This seems to be a "Fix" no one asked for, as it's been this way since they revamped stalkers, as far as I was aware this was intended. Remember these are all variables invisible to the players. Please going forward, consider if a "Fix" is nerfing players, and if anyone is even asking for it to be fixed.

Edited January 27 by Riot Siren

[Luminara]

The Cancel on Damage change wasn't about stalkers, or even targeting stalkers.  The Cancel on Damage flag wasn't working at all.  I mean at all at all.  Night Widow critter Blinds weren't being removed when our characters were attacked.  Bane and Succubus critter Placates weren't either.  All of those critters had cart blanche to beat player character asses without reprisal, and it was making some content unplayable for some players/characters and frustrating for others.

 

The flag was broken.  It had to be fixed.

[aethereal]

8 minutes ago, Luminara said:

The flag was broken.  It had to be fixed.

 

If that's true, it would be easy enough to fix the flag and also remove it from the stalker's ATO effect.

[Kaika]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

 

If that's true, it would be easy enough to fix the flag and also remove it from the stalker's ATO effect.

This.

We can do this without nerfing an entire AT, and in a way that enforces the established meta for that AT even harder. The fact that this wasn't an initial consideration concerns me.

Edited January 27 by Riot Siren

[SwitchFade]

6 hours ago, Luminara said:

The Cancel on Damage change wasn't about stalkers, or even targeting stalkers.  The Cancel on Damage flag wasn't working at all.  I mean at all at all.  Night Widow critter Blinds weren't being removed when our characters were attacked.  Bane and Succubus critter Placates weren't either.  All of those critters had cart blanche to beat player character asses without reprisal, and it was making some content unplayable for some players/characters and frustrating for others.

 

The flag was broken.  It had to be fixed.

No argument there, but a wholesale change to stalkers is absolutely absurd.

 

If it remains, I'm through.

[warlyx]

+1 makes no sense to lose the ATO proc on dmg tbh 

[naraganeun]

After testing Stone/Cold controller solo on both  CoT  and Arachnos x8/4+ I feel that the Frostwork adjustment is amazing. My pet had a habit of pulling extra groups, but between Spirit Ward (sorcery) and Frostwork, it allowed my pet to take the alpha and give me enough time to set up controls. 

It's a wonderful change. Theoretically speaking, it could make cold a great tank support. Especially when the tank is taking in void damage.

[Vince]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:06 AM, Mezmera said:

As a follow up to TK and the new Dark dom pool.  I spec'd back out of TK and back into the Soul pool and ran some more +4/8 Council missions. 

 

I had a much easier go of it this time around.  A good deal of that would be thanks to the Soul pool giving me that juicy aoe damage to finish off the minions and Lts fast enough for my initial Mass Confusion/Total Domination to last through to where I had only the bosses left to deal with which they are putty at that point. 

 

Not once did I feel the need for more aoe control beyond what I can already do with Mass Confusion, Total Domination and Terrify and since TK is very limited in what it provides I'm happy to have Burnout.  It's a fun/cute power but in application not all that useful since it doesn't really control a group like I could do by even picking up Mass Hypnosis as well.  Appreciate the effort and the willingness to listen to feedback.  

 

On a side note I stopped to watch what those new Council do to each other when Mass Confused and man they wreck themselves.  

Completely agree. The new mechanic looks cool but not worth respeccing into (especially since so many people use fold space now anyways).  The immob is okay I guess, but some really like perma holding targets very quickly with old TK in niche situations (especially on doms).  Regardless, I do appreciate it at least being looked at for a revamp but this new version will still be a skip for me.

Edited January 27 by Vince

[Player-1]

Hello everyone, just want to chime in and thank you all again for the feedback! 

 

For the topic at hand, it would be helpful to get some more varied data on the ATO's success and failure rates. We have some anecdotal data in this thread, and a handful of logs, though a gif or video of the behavior would be excellent to compare against.

 

In a controlled environment such as a repeatable mission against the same targets, video of the proc going off and/or I suppose "turning off" over time could be useful in determining how it behaves during game play.

 

We are looking at this internally as well, yet more testing is always appreciated!

[warlyx]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:07 PM, kelika2 said:

Can Storm Cell move faster?

Jet Streams repel is the one thing stopping me from making more Storm alts.  And even if the Repel got removed there are still debuffs and damage effects lost from a slow moving Storm Cell

 

And if that cannot happen, how about an animation trimming + recharge reduction in Storm Cell to force it around.

 

storm cell : big toggle 🤪 . not gonna happen tho

 

 

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

9 hours ago, Riot Siren said:

This.

We can do this without nerfing an entire AT, and in a way that enforces the established meta for that AT even harder. The fact that this wasn't an initial consideration concerns me.

 

 

It's just like the New Council vs Masterminds issue... No one considered how a muti-goon-per-spawn, big damage, always auto-hit rez power that happened so frequently in play would have an outsized impact on a pet-dependent AT. Masterminds just aren't common enough to be "on the radar", I suspect. 

 

With the Stalker proc issue... my guess is that what we're seeing is a result of the combination of Stalkers' relative rarity compared to other melees, combined with most of the people playing Stalkers in Closed having followed the "usual practice" of running soft-capped Defense builds... They just would have been a lot less likely to notice that anything had really changed at all.

 

Again, like Masterminds with the Council revamps, the eventual consensus may be that non-Defense Stalkers are an "acceptable casualty"... It's not like they're played by that many people, so the impact on "The Players At Large" won't be huge.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by Coyotedancer