Focused Feedback: Various Power Updates

[ExeErdna]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:11 PM, drbuzzard said:

 

 

Odd, I even went back and re-read my post. I suggested nothing actually. I merely criticized the current state of sonic resonance and said the liquefy changes were not enough to fix it. You didn't actually rebut a single thing I said, but I am somehow wrong anyway. 

 

Sonic is not in the top half of sets. I've played them all fairly extensively, and I can assure you other sets do a better job of amping up a team. Fixing liquefy will help. It will not be sufficient. Making siphon into a siphon could potentially help depending on how it is done (if it buffs the whole team, then yes). However the set will still lack in variety of tools. It would still be mostly  + or - resistance. 

 

If I had to make suggestions we'll go down the powers:

 

1: Sonic Barrier- I suppose keep as is or perhaps add a rather esoteric defbuff resistance like regeneration. 

2. Sonic Siphon - you could go with the siphon and transfer resistance to the team. I've contemplated either -damage (probably not good since it stacks with the resistance being handed out) or -regen. 

3. Sonic Haven- again add some esoteric debuff resistance perhaps endurance drain resistance. 

4. Sonic Cage- nuke this from orbit. Yes, It has limited uses, but even those are frustrating (wall off a sapper or surgeon, but someone will want to kill them and waste their time trying).  Maybe put in an endurance boosting power. There's a lot of heals which are pulses in a toggle. How about an endurance boosting pulse toggle?

5. Disruption field- fine as is

6. Sonic Dispersion- This already does a fair amount, so fine as is. 

7. Sonic Repulsion- it requires an IO to be useful. How about we just make it a knockdown toggle the way it ends up, and cut to the chase? Also fix the noise. 

8. Clarity - since it's fairly redundant, people often skip it or let it gather dust in the tray. How about we throw in half a forge on top of the redundant status protection (+12.5 to hit and +25 damage) ? Keep the short recharge so it can be handed out easily for a change. In a world with lots of team damage buffs that just go to the whole team, and fast recharging single target one is no crime. 

9. Liquefy- I'd rather see the recharge go to 120 instead of 150 so you can actually get it permanent without outside help. The gap is small on rest right now, but why not bite the bullet and make sonic catch up in damage mitigation?

 

OK, now you can complain about suggestions since I've actually made some. 

As somebody that likes Sonic, I agree remove Sonic Cage and putting Clarity in that slot and having it affect the team like Barrier and Haven. The reason why it's skipped it's comes up too late, people can manage the mez at that point. 

[Parabola]

Finally got around to having a quick play with telekinesis on test (better late than never). I have no great history with either mind control or the previous version of this power so I'm coming at it with fairly fresh eyes. I made a mind/time controller which strikes me as a pretty good combination as time can supply huge amounts of recharge and some extra control, both of which mind really benefits from. I levelled to 50, purpled it out (no incarnates) and then had a go at a couple of radio missions.

 

Overall takeaway was that I liked it. It's unique and fun. I think this change has persuaded me to level one of these on live.

 

There are quibbles - many times I'd tag the nearest enemy with the intention of pushing them back though their friends to pick them all up but the one I'd targeted would get stuck on some piece of geometry I couldn't see and they would just stay there. Also enemies that are repel resistant are a pain - if they aren't your target and you push until they are out of range they just drop down and attack. The power obviously doesn't prevent incoming fire and I imagine softcapping ranged and going into the psi epic for indomitable will are going to be popular choices. It presents you with an interesting tactical choice - use it to gather first before deploying a big control which opens you up to a lot of fire but creates a nice bunch, or deploy total domination or mass confusion first and then pick up the enemy which risks enemies being out of range for the control. There is nothing stopping you from spamming your single target confuse and hold as you are repositioning the spawn also.

 

I found the interaction with levitate to be kind of useful. Mind needs the aoe damage so no argument there. I also figure that telekinesis is something that you are generally going to want to turn off anyway after the initial stages of an encounter so it can recharge for the next spawn (if you are clearing spawns too quickly for this you probably don't need it in the first place). But you do need to remember that this interaction exists, a couple of times I was spamming single target controls as I was repositioning and I accidentally hit the anchor with levitate and turned telekinesis off before I meant to. Driver error clearly and I'll soon learn to avoid doing that.

 

There is a tension between wanting to keep telekinesis running to set containment and wanting to shut it off as quickly as possible after the initial reposition so it can recharge. I see tactical choices such as this as generally a good thing. But I have to caveat all this with the fact I had a LOT of recharge in my build (hasten perma with only one slot in it pre incarnates kind of recharge). Other secondaries may struggle with the cooldown a bit more.

 

I did try exemping down to try a lower level mission (lv19 so no hasten or chrono shift). It was kind of ok there too but I'd need to spend a lot more time with it and I had bonuses and slots you wouldn't have levelling of course. Here I really was only giving a very quick blast of telekinesis at the start of a fight and then shutting it off as quickly as possible. I was able to go at my own pace and wait for telekinesis to recharge if necessary or just choose to engage without it. On teams I wouldn't expect it to be a power I'd use on every spawn anyway - just where there was some clear benefit to repositioning the enemy.

 

Something I couldn't work out was whether it is auto-hit or not? It says it accepts accuracy enhancements which suggests not auto-hit? If this is the case could we consider allowing the slotting of immobilise sets? I get that the immobilise enhancement won't do anything but it cries out for recharge and endurance reduction, if it also needs accuracy that's a lot for non set slotting to handle.

[brass_eagle]

RL called for a while-- but I'm back.

 

Had a lot of fun with Savage Leap crits. Definitely making a Savage stalker once this goes live.

 

Sad to see the recharge on telekinesis remain so high. The new end reduction feels nice on my kitted out Dominator. Didn't test high recharge build with a controller and how much that adds for containment damage.

------------------------------

However, I would still like to see a visual effect on the Telekinesis anchor--I have found myself switching to a non-anchor target to use Levitate because I didn't want to shut off Telekinesis yet. Battle flow solo:

 

(AoE Control) --> Telekinesis --> Hold & Range AoE  --> 'Switch Targets' --> Repeat Step 3 with Levitate --> Switch back for AoE Levitate before auto shutoff

 

With the enemies clumped up, I wasn't sure which Lieutenant mob I had Telekinesis on. I can imagine on a team of 8x with all the other power effects, I'd lose the target more easily... Also, it would be nice to easily identify the target that controls the position of the group. Moving left or right--forward or back--grab more mobs--pull to a different location would be easier, at least for me. On Radiation Emission / Nature Aff characters, I usually use peripheral vision to keep track of the anchored mob based on the visual effect. 

 

The effect doesn't have to be fancy. Can even be a standard aura from the costume FX. Add a NoFx option for folks if necessary.

 

Please consider this for future updates.

 

(I'm still excited to make a new Mind Control on live. Great work, this update seems jam packed with goodies.)

[Uun]

6 hours ago, Parabola said:

Something I couldn't work out was whether it is auto-hit or not? It says it accepts accuracy enhancements which suggests not auto-hit?

Don't know where you're seeing this. It is auto-hit, but on my Mind dom it only accepts end reduction, recharge and range enhancements.

[Bionic_Flea]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:43 PM, Bionic_Flea said:

If you or others get together and run all the blast sets for a certain AT against the same content (like the Trapdoor test, but could be anything consistent) and storm comes in dead last then the set has real problems.  Ston, GalaxyBrain, and others have done it for other ATs.

 

Ston has done a Blaster primary comparison.  Hey look, Storm is in the middle all procced up and with limited procs it's tied with fire in DPS against a pylon.  Who knew?

 

[Sovera]

16 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Ston has done a Blaster primary comparison.  Hey look, Storm is in the middle all procced up and with limited procs it's tied with fire in DPS against a pylon.  Who knew?

 

 

I love you Flea, but our complaints are about prep time and annoyances like Storm Cell or Cloudburst travel + DoT (either travel, or DoT, but not both please. Incidentally it would not make a difference against a pylon) in actual gameplay, not fighting a stationary target for 3 minutes.

[Bionic_Flea]

But Sovera, how can you love me?  We've barely talked!

[Sovera]

17 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

But Sovera, how can you love me?  We've barely talked!

 

'If people can hate with no reason I can love with no reason'.

[Parabola]

8 hours ago, Uun said:

Don't know where you're seeing this. It is auto-hit, but on my Mind dom it only accepts end reduction, recharge and range enhancements.

Ah, it sounds like there is a bug then because it accepts accuracy on a controller:

 

[ScarySai]

As part of this whole immob update, perhaps it's time to move gravity's knock conversion to the aoe immob.

[WindDemon21]

5 hours ago, ScarySai said:

As part of this whole immob update, perhaps it's time to move gravity's knock conversion to the aoe immob.

That and elec's should have been done DECADES ago... Surprized it hasn't been done here yet.

[WindDemon21]

10 hours ago, Parabola said:

Ah, it sounds like there is a bug then because it accepts accuracy on a controller:

 

I'm seeing a distinct lack of sets for the power too which is a VERY bad move as well. Big problem with the power still is that it has a 2 minute recharge which doesn't start until it's toggled off, so you won't be able to use it every mob even because of that. The rech really should be bumped down to 60s.

[WindDemon21]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:46 AM, The Curator said:

Thunder Strike consistency pass (All versions):

• Recharge increased from 18s to 20s
• Radius increased from 7' to 10'
• Endurance cost increased from 10.192 to 18.512
• Cast time reduced from 3.3s to 2.53s
• Main target damage increased from scale 2.38 to scale 2.98
• Secondary target damage set to scale 0.42
• Epic versions of this power has 40s cooldown and 23.14 endurance cost

Um, can we also PLEASE not do this. This power NEEDS to be more aoe damage based, not more on the single target. Please keep the more damage on the aoe. this is a HUGE nerf to it's aoe damage and needs to keep the larger benefit to it's aoe. DO NOT DO THIS!!! This consistency pass should be to make all versions what the melee already was, more of an aoe attack. DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

 

Edit: SERIOUSLY, fix the OTHER versions which have crap aoe and knockback to be more aoe damage, but do NOT do this. SERIOUSLY ughhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

On the radius note too, please fix touch of fear and especially spinning strike as well. 6ft is absurd on a taoe, it's not even the standard 8ft that most regular aoes are which are easier to hit mobs cause they surround you, this never made any sense. Not to mention how spinning strike's animation is even pbaoe, not taoe. These need fixed BADLY.  It's easily the number one reason I always tell people to avoid stj (on top of all the st attacks except the tier 9 having way too short of rech to proc anything where they don't need to be that short for how many ST attacks the set has), and even DM on non-tanks as well. They need to be 10ft if staying as taoe.

 

This seems like way too high of an end cost increase as well for nerfing it's aoe on top of it.

Edited February 16 by WindDemon21

[Mezmera]

I agree about the new TK offering a bit more to Mind in terms of fun and function.  Sure it's too bad to lose the stacking mag for boss fights but having a soft control that does all of this gives Mind something fresh to play with.  All in all the new TK seems good to push through.  Any later adjustments to it could come by way of adjustments to the splash damage if it's determined to be a little low, but there is lots it can do.  I'd still like to see controllers get the containment damage from landing the mass levitate though.  

[ScarySai]

Thunder strike aoe without procs is already a meme, at least this makes it semi viable for ST.

[WindDemon21]

22 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Thunder strike aoe without procs is already a meme, at least this makes it semi viable for ST.

Its absolutely absurd, there is no reason to pass all versions to suck even more. Even the melee version isn't that great aoe but at least its more and inherent KD.  They should all be more focused on this, not make the aoe on them even worse wth!?

 

Edit: which blaster/dom versions already don't need, where they need the aoe, and melee versions still need the aoe more and it's worth enough to use as a ST filler if needed. Seriously, this better not roll out to live like this, and needs to be fixed to be more aoe damage focused on the non-melee versions. This is absolutely absurd...

 

I could see a small part of helping out ST on elec melee, I could see this more if maybe the target cap on chain induction was increased to 10 instead of 5 to compensate then. TBH if they did that, I actually would like that better for the melee version of this power, but only if they upped chain induction. (without changing other stats)

 

But yeah the dom and blaster versions ONLY need the aoe from this power, they don't need single target damage from it at ALL. So definitely don't "consistency pass" this like that lord have mercy...

 

Epic versions too, they need the aoe from it, not as a single target.

 

And they should all be inherent KD (slottable to kb if desired)

Edited February 16 by WindDemon21

[Luminara]

On 2/12/2024 at 1:46 PM, Player-1 said:

Hello @WindDemon21,

 

Please provide actual results between live and beta to back up your claims.

 

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

PLEASE not do this

 

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

VERY bad move

 

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

HUGE nerf

 

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

Etc. Etc.

 

Wind, writing in this voice does your arguments no favours at all. You might have years of experience with the powers and sets you are commenting on but in all honesty if I were a dev I'd struggle to not disregard your opinions out of hand because this just comes across so badly. One of the worst aspects of internet culture is that it teaches people that the only way to be heard is to make as big a noise as possible. In this kind of space it has the opposite effect though - I immediately stop listening and I suspect others will too. If you dial it all back several notches you might find people listen more.

 

Mods - feel free to hide this post ... I just felt I had to say it.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Um, can we also PLEASE not do this. This power NEEDS to be more aoe damage based, not more on the single target. Please keep the more damage on the aoe. this is a HUGE nerf to it's aoe damage and needs to keep the larger benefit to it's aoe. DO NOT DO THIS!!! This consistency pass should be to make all versions what the melee already was, more of an aoe attack. DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

 

Edit: SERIOUSLY, fix the OTHER versions which have crap aoe and knockback to be more aoe damage, but do NOT do this. SERIOUSLY ughhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

On the radius note too, please fix touch of fear and especially spinning strike as well. 6ft is absurd on a taoe, it's not even the standard 8ft that most regular aoes are which are easier to hit mobs cause they surround you, this never made any sense. Not to mention how spinning strike's animation is even pbaoe, not taoe. These need fixed BADLY.  It's easily the number one reason I always tell people to avoid stj (on top of all the st attacks except the tier 9 having way too short of rech to proc anything where they don't need to be that short for how many ST attacks the set has), and even DM on non-tanks as well. They need to be 10ft if staying as taoe.

 

This seems like way too high of an end cost increase as well for nerfing it's aoe on top of it.

 

It now hits for only slightly less than Total Focus, so it's a big upgrade for Elec Melee's miserable ST damage, but yeah, not sure what the point of it being classed as AoE since it barely tickles even Gears. At least it makes for a beast of a FF proc carrier.

[WindDemon21]

6 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

It now hits for only slightly less than Total Focus, so it's a big upgrade for Elec Melee's miserable ST damage, but yeah, not sure what the point of it being classed as AoE since it barely tickles even Gears. At least it makes for a beast of a FF proc carrier.

Right i'm definitely not saying the set didn't need help there, but that is a BIG cost there, but woudl be a good move if they compensated by increasing chains cap from 5 to 10, or making jacob's ladder a better cone/more targets like power crash (stj's cone really needs this too in addition to the bigger aoe on spinning strike)

 

Edit: but also to seriously clarify the point that, doing that would help the melee version, but blaster/dom/epic versions NEED the aoe from the power, they don't need it for single target damage. So doing this for all versions of the power is just extra terribly stupid. If you need to call it a different name in those other versions then do that, but do not pass this version to those by all means, and compensate the aoe loss in the melee version via chain or jacobs.

Edited February 16 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

42 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Testing isn't needed when the damage on the single target is bumped up a little, but a big reduction is done in aoe. Changing around a whole power set or mechanic is one thing, completely reducing aoe on an aoe atttack to almost nothing is another BIG thing that explains itself.

[arcane]

I like the Thunderstrike change. Elec Melee needed ST help more than it needed the AoE help.

[Luminara]

34 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Testing isn't needed

 

On 2/12/2024 at 1:46 PM, Player-1 said:

Hello @WindDemon21,

 

Please provide actual results between live and beta to back up your claims.

 

[WindDemon21]

19 minutes ago, arcane said:

I like the Thunderstrike change. Elec Melee needed ST help more than it needed the AoE help.

Right, I'm all for helping the ST on elec melee, but not at the cost of the main aoe power. Elecs aoe was *fine* because of that, with this huge nerf though, the little extra ST it gets, esp for the end cost, isn't worth the huge 2/3 cut on the aoe from that, since it was the sets only kinda "true" aoe. If it compensates elsewhere again, ok, but not as is.

[Arcadio]

5 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Testing isn't needed when the damage on the single target is bumped up a little, but a big reduction is done in aoe. Changing around a whole power set or mechanic is one thing, completely reducing aoe on an aoe atttack to almost nothing is another BIG thing that explains itself.

In addition to the damage being reduced, the AoE is larger and the activation is faster. These are opposing changes. If you think the net change makes the clear on electric melee worse, you'll need to demonstrate that claim.