Let's talk about the Knockdown Proc.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, The Philotic Knight said:

Meh, IOs are cheap in the modern market. I'm not worried about the cost.

It's not the influence cost but the actual slotting needed that eats up other potential bonuses just for your set to "work".

 

This is not a big deal on say, fire control where you only need 1 IO. But on energy blast? That is like 8 slots needed!

[Sunsette]

The money is also a big cost to a new player, not to mention the difficulty of finding out such a thing exists, etc.

 

Multiple builds likewise are not great because you have to have the money to completely furnish two builds of one character.

 

On the whole, I don't really think these IOs were good additions to the game, because they've been radically, powerfully game changing for situations that didn't really need it, and the powersets that needed them most were already fighting to fit enough enhancements into a narrow amount of slots. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Sunsette

[Zep]

8 hours ago, The Philotic Knight said:

Meh, IOs are cheap in the modern market. I'm not worried about the cost.

It is not the cost of the IO - it is the lost slot to the IO your not putting something "Better" in.

 

My fire/storm could put in 4 w/o thinking of the patron/mastery/reg pools.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Zep

[archgemini24]

6 hours ago, Sunsette said:

The money is also a big cost to a new player, not to mention the difficulty of finding out such a thing exists, etc.

 

Multiple builds likewise are not great because you have to have the money to completely furnish two builds of one character.

 

On the whole, I don't really think these IOs were good additions to the game, because they've been radically, powerfully game changing for situations that didn't really need it, and the powersets that needed them most were already fighting to fit enough enhancements into a narrow amount of slots. 

Checked out your primer on options, and I would love a Null the Gull option to just turn all my KB into KD. I think your suggestion would be the easiest way to go about it: a global setting for the character that drops KB mag on every power on said character to 0.67.

[Sunsette]

7 minutes ago, archgemini24 said:

Checked out your primer on options, and I would love a Null the Gull option to just turn all my KB into KD. I think your suggestion would be the easiest way to go about it: a global setting for the character that drops KB mag on every power on said character to 0.67.

It would not be my preferred option, but it would be an option I would definitely be willing to take. 

[arkieboy72472]

In my case having played storm and fire on controllers, i run the KD proc in gale, tornado, and thunderstorm. In gale I used to have it as a get out of my face button until I realized foes ran from my blizzard and stacked rains. Gale with KD keeps foes where I want them. It makes tornado and thunderstorm much more team friendly. As for fire, bonfire was once situation and indoors only is now a great attack that I can lead with or use after cages. In buildings, especially small rooms and offices, bonfire with the KD is the damn bomb. Slotted with damage, it make fire even better.

 

Even better, it makes formerly shitty powers from Sonic, force field, and Kinetics and makes them somewhat usable. Most every set has one shitty or situational power, but at least this proc gives players more creativity and options.

[Neogumbercules]

I love the KB to KD IOs and in my mind it's quickly approached Stamina levels of "almost everyone is using this" levels of importance. 

 

I almost wonder if the entire KB to KD effect should just be a global added to the P2W vendor, or null the gull. 

[_NOPE_]

As long as it remains a choice, I don't care what form the choice takes. I like the enhancement myself, as it allows the greatest granularity, but to each their own.

Edited July 26, 2019 by The Philotic Knight

[Heraclea]

It is a godsend on Water Burst. 

[Herotu]

 

On 7/25/2019 at 8:27 PM, Bossk_Hogg said:

Slots are a big cost. 

This. These "Winners" are actually losers for this reason.

[Myrmidon]

Elec/Kin Sapper.

 

Soft-Cap S/L Def, near soft-cap Energy Def, Transfusion, Short Circuit, KD Repel.

 

 

Mark me down for having the Sudden Acceleration KB-KD creator Canonized.

[Vanden]

I don't really like the "slot tax" some powers have to turn knockback into knockdown. Now, the reverse is also true; if you want to turn a power from knockdown into knockback, that also usually takes one slot. I think that's why 0.67 magnitude knockback is so common, because it's low enough to be knockdown, yet high enough to turn into knockback with only one SO. The only issue is, people who want to turn knockdown into knockback kiiinda don't exist.

[Baney]

21 hours ago, archgemini24 said:

Checked out your primer on options, and I would love a Null the Gull option to just turn all my KB into KD. I think your suggestion would be the easiest way to go about it: a global setting for the character that drops KB mag on every power on said character to 0.67.

This this this thisv

[Whitest Light]

I'd +100 any change that gives the player the choice (through Null the Gull or an inherent toggle).

 

As it is, I have 3 KB-to-KD in my Peacebringer and would have more if slots allowed. They are preventing me from quite a few important Set bonuses but the QoL improvement is too much to give up. I would absolutely love to do away with the "IO Tax" if given the opportunity.

[Primantis]

Just a quick silly idea.

 

They could introduce some new stand-alone IO's that focus on nothing but KB -->KD. Each comes with an attached enhancement value.

 

 

+DMG / KB->KD

+ACC / KB-> KD

+Rech / KB -> KD

+End Reduce / KB -> KD

 

Now you can slot in your KB-->KD IO, and not have to pay as hefty of a slot tax because it will also come with an attached enhancement bonus. Even if the Enhancement value carries the same strength of a dual-aspect IO. It gives a little extra oomf but still makes you choose if you want to sacrifice a bit of stats for that conversion.

 

Put em on the Merit Vendor for 50 Merits a pop.

 

[Sunsette]

I made some suggestions to that end in the topic linked in my signature!

[Obsidian_Farmer]

On 7/28/2019 at 11:05 AM, Whitest Light said:

I'd +100 any change that gives the player the choice (through Null the Gull or an inherent toggle).

 

As it is, I have 3 KB-to-KD in my Peacebringer and would have more if slots allowed. They are preventing me from quite a few important Set bonuses but the QoL improvement is too much to give up. I would absolutely love to do away with the "IO Tax" if given the opportunity. 

This is the boat I'm in with my PB as well.  I've got them in Solar Flare, Dawn Strike, and Photon Seekers.  I'd toss one in Radiant Strike and Bright Nova Detonation too but I need those sixth set bonuses for the psi resist in my build.   Don't get me wrong, he's amazingly fun as he is and is a hell of a tank but I'd kill to get those slots back so I could put them elsewhere and push that Psi resist over the 85% cap.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

A lot of really good points have been brought up here. So id like to just repeat them to keep this thread alive.

 

#1.  Make KB2KD a global 

#2.  If people want KB there are sets for it (do these people exist?)

#3. More options is always better.

[Neogumbercules]

3 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

A lot of really good points have been brought up here. So id like to just repeat them to keep this thread alive.

 

#1.  Make KB2KD a global 

#2.  If people want KB there are sets for it (do these people exist?)

#3. More options is always better.

Agree with these suggestions. 

 

KB to KD has undoubtedly improved this game. And because it's a choice, it's great for everyone. 

 

Energy/Devices, a blaster set that would be insanely counterintuitive on live, is amazing here with SA procs. 

[MunkiLord]

I'm not opposed to this suggestion as I'm all for player choice. But at the same time I don't have a problem with things as they are currently. There being some sort of cost to alter how your power functions makes sense. 

[DR_Mechano]

It actually makes normally useless powers usable in other sets, Lightning clap and Hand clap, Slap in the KB-KD, slap in the +Recharge chance proc and boom, you got a nice way to keep mobs knocked down by hitting them with footstomp and then just as they finish getting up, hit them with hand clap. In large enough groups and with decent recharge you can actually keep the +Recharge proc chained together from Hand Clap and Footstomp.