Focused Feedback: New Player Experience (NPE) Improvements

[Lazarillo]

8 minutes ago, Dev Unitas said:

Quite controversial, and a decent amount of work that could be going into other projects with wider reach.

 

The way I personally see it, the value of Praetoria is as an alternate levelling experience for seasoned players with at least a rudimentary lore understanding. It provides some additional spice when the blue and redside levelling experience from 1-30 has grown stale.

Since you opened the door, what would be the odds of simply raising the level caps on each arc, since they're overtuned for their levels and yet so easy to outlevel anyway, to the point of adding an alternate experience that goes even further (at least for the players that want it to)?

[InvaderStych]

13 minutes ago, Dev Unitas said:

The way I personally see it, the value of Praetoria is as an alternate levelling experience for seasoned players with at least a rudimentary lore understanding. It provides some additional spice when the blue and redside levelling experience from 1-30 has grown stale. So it makes sense that, in being directed at that crowd, it is tuned more appropriately for their general level of skill. That's, again, my personal opinion though, not explicitly that of the team.

 

On the subject of the 1-30 experience, or more specifically the 20-30 experience ...

 

Is it worth mentioning that Praetorian characters can choose to delay their trip to the Paragon City or the Rogue Isles and continue to First Ward and Night Ward before specifically choosing Hero or Villain in the opening description text, or is that too esoteric of a path to promote at that point?

 

Edited to Add:

 

-- I concur with previous suggestions to color shade the "Not for New Players" line in the description of Praetoria so that it stands out more.

 

-- The shading in "Earth" on "Praetorian Earth" looks off, like the gradient is too abrupt working towards the center letters.

 

-- Massive thanks for adding this info, I recently posted a similar suggestion as we've had several new players take that path and post up that it was a less than ideal way to create their first character.

Edited January 29 by InvaderStych

[Lazarillo]

10 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Is it worth mentioning that Praetorian characters can choose to delay their trip to the Paragon City or the Rogue Isles and continue to First Ward and Night Ward before specifically choosing Hero or Villain in the opening description text, or is that too esoteric of a path to promote at that point?

What's interesting is that such dialogue was in the game during its original lifetime.

[Dev Unitas]

Just now, Lazarillo said:

Since you opened the door, what would be the odds of simply raising the level caps on each arc, since they're overtuned for their levels and yet so easy to outlevel anyway, to the point of adding an alternate experience that goes even further (at least for the players that want it to)?

Still speaking purely personally, so don't take my word as gospel: Broadening level ranges of particular arcs is something I'd be interested in doing, but the amount of work involved differs case-by-case, as the level ranges of arcs are often at least in part connected to the level ranges of the enemy types within. Many arcs would require expanding or adjusting the level ranges of the critter groups in them, or changing what type of enemies spawn here or there or what have you. Can get very messy very quickly in certain circumstances. I haven't gone looking, but I imagine Praetoria would be filled with examples of those messy situations. If we were to expand level ranges, it probably wouldn't be anything more than 5-10 levels for any individual arc, I'd guess.

 

To simplify: I'unno, maybe, could hypothetically happen, we've talked about the overlevelling conundrum on a broader scale in the past. I find it particularly annoying myself. Definitely no promises or things to announce today!

[Wavicle]

As you continue to examine new player experience, it might be worth it to restore some of the old funneling, such as to the Invention Tutorial at the University, the intended first contact for First Ward, (dare I say it) PvP zones/Arena, AE etc.

Maybe do something to give people good reason to run the iTrials beyond BAF...

Edited January 29 by Wavicle

[Cyclone Jack]

Some of this may be repeat info from what some others may have said.  I tried to go through the entire character creation, tutorial, 1st few levels as someone unfamiliar with the game.

 

Origin

Primal Earth / Praetorian Earth:  Primal and Praetorian should probably be emphasized more than Earth.

Praetorian Earth:  Update to: "You can leave Praetoria at level 20 to either be a Hero of Paragon City or a Villain of the Rogue Isles."

Perhaps mention the Origin Power in the Origin description box.

Maybe also mention that Origin has little impact on a character and is mostly thematic.

 

Playstyle

Tank:  Mention something about aggro management, since that is really what separates other armored ATs from Tanks.

Crowd Control:  This mentions "Debuffs enemies when possible" but Dominators don't use debuffs.

 

Archetype

Since Role Diversity is not mirroring the roles listed under Playstyle, it might be a good idea to highlight the intended Role for each AT on the AT screen to better inform both new and old players what the intended Role is for each AT.  Perhaps change the text color of the role to yellow.

Scrapper: Change "Critical strike" to "Critical Strike"?

Peacebringer/Kheldian:  Would it be worth mentioning Quantums somewhere in the description?  Shadowstar didn't mention anything about them and the 1st enemy I ran into in my 1st mission was a Quantum.  I forgot Kheldians don't have an option for the tutorial. 🤣

 

Register

Tutorial Zone Pop-up: Change from yellow to red: Breakout and Breakout (Villain).

 

Outbreak

Remove P2W Vendor?  This could confuse new players; I would at minimum remove XP Bonuses since those are a trap for new players.

Athletic Run and Origin Power:  Add to Tray by default (or see below)

Sergeant Hicks talks about 'Training' enhancements.  This should probably be updated since these cannot normally be purchased (outside of a Supergroup Base) and I haven't seen them drop in ages (were they removed completely from the drop table?).

 

Trainers

Here's an odd one.  Would it be possible add a Trainers tab to the Contact drop down?

 

Prismatic Aether

Would it be possible to add a pop-up for when the player receives their 1st Prismatic Aether, similar to when they get their 1st Tip or Salvage?

 

Athletic Run and Jetpack

Is it possible to add these as Mission Rewards during the Tutorial, but also grant them to players who skip the Tutorial or select Galaxy City?  If yes, then I would grant Athletic Run for completing Officer Flint's mission, and have him explain that it uses a good amount of Endurance, so it might be a good idea to turn it off during combat.  For the Jet Pack, perhaps add it as a blinky to the door mission, similar to temp powers granted during Mayhem/Safeguard missions (this can also be done in the Breakout mission with Jenkins).

 

[Cyclone Jack]

1 hour ago, InvaderStych said:

Is it worth mentioning that Praetorian characters can choose to delay their trip to the Paragon City or the Rogue Isles and continue to First Ward and Night Ward before specifically choosing Hero or Villain in the opening description text, or is that too esoteric of a path to promote at that point?

What sorcery is this!?  I had no idea you could do this.  (Granted, it took me forever to figure out how to infiltrate the opposing faction in Praetoria)

[PoptartsNinja]

I dislike changing the long range teleporter to be 10 exploration badges on its own. Being able to pick it up safely in Atlas Park is a good thing, it's the first thing I like to do once I have my travel power and forcing me to duck into the sewers or King's Row is a frustration.

Could that change be made into an Either/Or? Either get a zone explore accolade or 10 exploration badges, so people who know can get the LRT quickly and people who don't will still probably stumble on it quickly?

[Wavicle]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:04 PM, Jimmy said:

Hello! I have a request.

 

Currently, Peacebringers and Warshades (hello @Laucianna 👀) show ? for all stats during character creation, like so:

 

 

While this does have some mild thematic significance, it's rather unhelpful for new players. In the next build we'll be adding numbers here for Kheldians, and also potentially updating some other ATs if we think the numbers aren't quite right (for example, Arachnos Soldiers have a pets rating of 2, which is clearly inaccurate).

 

These are the proposed numbers for Peacebringers and Warshades:

 

 

 

Please do let me know what you think. We're definitely open for input on the Kheldian numbers, and for any other ATs that could do with having their numbers tweaked.

 

Keep in mind that the goal here is to better communicate the strengths and weaknesses of each AT to inexperienced players, rather than be a raw reflection of the actual balance of each AT.

Maybe in addition, reevaluate the listings in the Playstyles in the Character Creation screen?

Like, add Warshade and Widow to Control, maybe add Warshade to Pets, Peacebringer to Melee, that sort of thing? Maybe Dominator goes in both Range and Melee?

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Dev Unitas said:

I haven't gone looking, but I imagine Praetoria would be filled with examples of those messy situations. If we were to expand level ranges, it probably wouldn't be anything more than 5-10 levels for any individual arc, I'd guess.

 

I don't think anyone is hoping for more than that for Praetoria.  Stretching the initial three zones to cover 1-30 (or even 1-25) and stretching FW/NW up to 50 would be an amazing upgrade.

[KaizenSoze]

My only comment is at least in Breakout, probably true for Outbreak too. I would be nice if your, Origin Attack, appeared on the power bar by default like brawl and sprint.

 

[mechahamham]

Let's chat about the Origin dialogue.

 

I think everyone, players and devs alike, going back to the Cryptic era have always wanted Origin to be more important. This is still reflected in the character creator not allowing you to progress to archetype, etc... until you pick one.

 

However, a question that comes up in /help fairly often is 'What does Origin actually DO?' And, of course, the answer is always, 'Not much. Aside from the newbie attack power, which you can switch out, it's basically what stores you can buy DOs and SOs from. It's mostly there for roleplay value.'

 

So, while in the future this may change, I think it's important NOW to inform new players of that. If you have not clicked on any of the origins that session, you can see the text:
 

Quote

 

- You must first select an Origin for your character.

- The Origin explains how your character got their powers and abilities.

- This determines what types of Enhancements your character can to use as they level up.

- In general this choice will not have significant impact on your overall game experience.

 

 

This text disappears and is not reviewable once you've clicked on ANY origin. You don't see it again unless you completely restart the CoH client. It needs to be visible the entire time a player is viewing that screen. Once you've picked, say, Science origin, it should look something like:
 

Quote

 

- You earned your powers through the benefits of modern science, either through experimentation or by accident.

- This Origin explains how your character got their powers and abilities.

- This determines what types of Enhancements your character can to use as they level up.

- In general this choice will not have significant impact on your overall game experience.

 

 

Ideally, I think that the explanation of the choice should be OUTSIDE the text box so that newer players can more easily see that it applies to all origins. So something like the following might even be MORE helpful to new players:

 

Choose the Origin of your Powers

---

- Origin explains how your character got their powers and abilities.

- This determines what types of Enhancements your character can to use as they level up.

- In general this choice will not have significant impact on your overall game experience.

---

- You must first select an Origin for your character before continuing.

---

 

And then the 'You must first' text is replaced with the flavor text for the origin once you've clicked one, but the explanation of what Origin actually does never disappears so long as you're on that screen.

 

And, of course, /help is generally a great place, and the people who listen to it are usually great about answering questions like this. I, personally, will continue to help new players understand the ramifications, importance, or lack thereof due to their choices.

[InvaderStych]

7 hours ago, Cyclone Jack said:

What sorcery is this!?  I had no idea you could do this. 

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Doorman

 

Talk to that guy before making the choice and walk through the spiraling portal. Edit: Err.. I think. It might just be as simple as walking through? Been a while, lol.

 

9 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

What's interesting is that such dialogue was in the game during its original lifetime.

 

It did? I've completely forgotten! I think I only know about it because someone mentioned it in the "switch sides every time" thread, or during some other conversation on taking a Praetorian to 50 without going Hero/Villain. (It can be done, but there are big limitations after FW/NW are complete).

Edited January 29 by InvaderStych

[Lockely]

2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I don't think anyone is hoping for more than that for Praetoria.  Stretching the initial three zones to cover 1-30 (or even 1-25) and stretching FW/NW up to 50 would be an amazing upgrade.

Stretching those enemy groups would also give us more flexibility in AE. I really dislike that my WIP Praetorian story is capped off at 24 unless I directly recreate all the enemy groups I want to use, and even then I can't use groups like the Ghouls in it.

[OverkillEngine]

Jetpack and origin power changes were very nice to have when testing a new Arse/Traps Controller, made it less painful to level the character for a few levels the old school way by doing solo missions like a new person just starting out and learning the mechanics would/should do. Much appreciated.

[Paradox Fate]

Is there anything planned to give the new players a invitation towards the University and their Invention System ?

 

There should be something like this window-popup around level 22 to guide them there or at least mention there's such a tutorial available. It's weird you only get this contact by directly speaking to the respective NPC's.

[Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, Paradox Fate said:

Is there anything planned to give the new players a invitation towards the University and their Invention System ?

 

There should be something like this window-popup around level 22 to guide them there or at least mention there's such a tutorial available. It's weird you only get this contact by directly speaking to the respective NPC's.

 

Twinshot's arc does actually trigger the Invention tutorial, but we probably could do with exposing it a bit better.

[Paradox Fate]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

 

Twinshot's arc does actually trigger the Invention tutorial, but we probably could do with exposing it a bit better.

 

Indeed, but when you do double DFB, then do Posi 1 and 2, you are on a expressway to the early 20's in less than 2 hours , and this completely goes over their head.

Plus you get a freebie IO and a badge, so I figure there's quite a incentive to give them another notice about it if they didn't do Twinshot.

[Sovera]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

 

Twinshot's arc does actually trigger the Invention tutorial, but we probably could do with exposing it a bit better.

 

Unrelated, but you might want to do the tag thing where a dev answer is shown at the top of the thread saying that the origin power and the athletic run showing in the skill bar when first logging in is being looked at since I've seen it mentioned 3-4 times after Powerhouse said it was being looked at.

[Cyclone Jack]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

 

Twinshot's arc does actually trigger the Invention tutorial, but we probably could do with exposing it a bit better.

Maybe add some extra dialog to the Trainers when the player reaches level 20 to seek out the University and talk to the person who starts that arc, if they haven't done so already.

 

Additionally, even though Twinshot (and the evil doctor villain-side who I can't think of for the life of me) automatically becomes a contact at L5, maybe add a small line of dialogue to the Origin/Starting Contacts once the player reaches level 5 that also points them to Twinshot.  Currently, these contacts give you a second contact that isn't Twinshot, and its up to the player to choose where to go; but having them mention that Twinshot is a recommended contact for new players, since her Arc sends you through the zone to all of the important key locations, I think could be a good idea.

[Lightyears]

On 1/27/2024 at 10:13 PM, gameboy1234 said:

Thoughts:

 

Opps, one more: in Atlas Park, I have Johnathan St. James Smythe as my contact and marked on the nav bar, but I was told to go to Ms Lib.  Might be confusing.  Ms Lib should probably tell me to talk the Matthew Habashy.  (Edit again: talk to Iris Parker, defeat all zombies in the sewer, yeah I'm directed to start the old introductory mission sets.  Besides Habashy might want to send me to the "Longbow Sewer Inpector" to learn about DFB.  (That's a job?  How bad do you have to eff up for Longbow to put you in charge of inspecting sewers?)

 

 

 

Habashy's story continues from him escaping from Galaxy City. It would break flow to have him be the initial contact after Outbreak. A new player may even think "This guy's quest is from the other tutorial. I guess I picked the wrong one."

 

I don't know if they have the tech to - A: Know which tutorial a player completed when they spawn in AP.

-and B: If so, send them to Matthew if they picked Galaxy or their Origin contact if they picked Outbreak.

 

Also, if If we split player's guidance based on which tutorial they picked - we run into the conundrum of Galaxy being a weak tutorial but Habashy's story arc being the better, more consistent 1-10 content.

[Lazarillo]

5 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

It did? I've completely forgotten! I think I only know about it because someone mentioned it in the "switch sides every time" thread, or during some other conversation on taking a Praetorian to 50 without going Hero/Villain. (It can be done, but there are big limitations after FW/NW are complete).

Granted after more than a decade, my memory's hazy regarding exactly how it worked, but I believe you got the Doorman (or one of the others) auto-add popup leading you to the new zone on all characters, Primal and Praetorian, kinda like Hellewise and Maria pop up in the current server for Night Ward (which never made much sense to me, but that's a whole different tangent).

Edited January 29 by Lazarillo

[Lightyears]

20 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

You're not wrong - but a little bit of narrative incongruity is much better than than the player not understanding the basics of the game. The sad reality is that the Galaxy City tutorial just isn't a very good tutorial. Annoyingly, the Praetorian tutorial is actually the most effective one - but you're then in Praetoria, which is way too hard for a brand new player.

 

My hope is that we can do some improvements to all the tutorials in i28, but in this patch we're specifically focusing on low hanging fruit.

 

An initial thought that popped into my head would be to remove Galaxy City from character creation and instead add it as an option when you speak to Coyote or the Arachnos pilot after the vanilla tutorials. Like, now that you're oriented Galaxy City could use your help (and you can properly flow from a good tutorial into Habashy's storyline) or choose to decline and continue to Paragon/Isles. I haven't played the Galaxy tutorial in a long time tho, so it might require too much clean up/culling at the beginning of Galaxy so it doesn't sound like you just created your character.

[Perma-Newbie]

20 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

This is sort of the point. If you are in Atlas and only have badges from Atlas, where are you teleporting to? 🙂

The goal is for players to learns the basics of standard zone travel (via trams, ferries, and tunnels - both physical and magical) before gaining quick travel, so they know how to actually get to new zones to add to LRT.

Your supergroup base.  Being able to pop into the base allows for greater movement.

 

Please switch it back to 8/accolade.

[ranagrande]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

 

Twinshot's arc does actually trigger the Invention tutorial, but we probably could do with exposing it a bit better.

Was this also changed recently?  As I recall, going to the university during The Shining Stars/Hearts of Darkness missions does not start the invention tutorial because they have other dialogue for those missions.

 

You have to talk to them again after the mission to get it.