Super Strength Power Set - Update Please

[LightningDrone]

Hi,

 

I've been playing the classic Invulnerability/Super Strength Tanker. Its got me thinking whether the power set could be a little more suitable for big mobs instead of single targets. Some may argue that its easier to just play with the Street Justice power set instead of asking for changes, which is understandable. Foot Stomp, Knockout Blow and Rage are great abilities from Super Strength power set and I'd like to expand beyond that.

'Haymaker' might I recommend be a melee cone attack that does heavy damage. And 'Handclap' I would like to see do damage and change knockback to knockdown. No sense knocking back a large mob out of melee range when many faces need punching in or foot stomped. This doesn't necessarily have to be the solution but I hope this brings me a chance to share a thought.

 

Thanks,

Lightning Drone.

[tiggertoga]

Also the animations for super strength are very outdated. It should be on par with titans weapons. SS is a great set that can barely be seen while fighting. CoH has fantastic animations for other power sets, I think this one just needs to be update a a bit. 

[Player2]

Super Strength got a couple of new animations added before the shutdown, but I feel like LightningDrone has a good point... except for calling Rage a good ability.  Personally, Rage feels out of place in the set... unless you want to call the set Hulk Strength, because the various Hulks are really the only super strength characters of note that are known for powering up with their rage.  I'm not going to say it's exclusive to them because I'm sure someone will hit me with a couple of obscure references, but the Hulk characters are the only big name ones in a sea of super strength heroes and villains that rage and get more powerful.

 

I dislike Rage and would rather see the whole set's damage re-balanced around having Rage replaced with a standard Build Up.  You want rage power, just play a brute.

 

Aside from that, I do like the idea of making Super Strength a little more AoE friendly or anything to highlight the character actually being super strong.  Because yeah, we have martial artists and street justice fighters that punch and kick just as effectively, making Super Strength seem very lackluster overall.

[Vanden]

On 3/10/2024 at 4:27 PM, tiggertoga said:

Also the animations for super strength are very outdated. It should be on par with titans weapons.

 

Titan Weapons? The set with the worst, sloppiest animations in the game?

[Helgrenze]

Been thinking about possible changes to Super Strength on Tankers. The first three attacks are hitting lighter than most other melee powers. It just doesn't seem "super" at lower levels in comparison, even verses the Brute version. The damage jump (or dropoff) from Haymaker (Moderate) to Knockout Blow (Extreme) is huge and makes the earlier attacks seem lacking.

 

I think the simplest solution is to shift the Tanker damage categories for Jab, Punch, and Haymaker (Minor, Light, Moderate) up to match the Brute levels (Minor, Moderate, Heavy). As things stand, Air Superiority is the hitting with about the same damage as the Tanker Haymaker. I also think Jab should be moved up to Light Damage in both ATs.

[Shin Magmus]

"Best we can do is a random nerf nobody asked for" - anonymous dev.  What if instead of making the T1 - T3 powers better, we nerf rage and add an orange circle somewhere.

 

If SS did get buffed, Hurl (and similarly in Stone Hurl Boulder) are the powers most in need of assistance.  Maybe making those into TAoEs might fit the theme. 

[Ultimo]

I've LONG suggested Super Strength could use a bit of love.  I mean, it's the single most iconic power of ANY comic character.  You can even go back to ancient mythology, where vast strength was a power of many great heroes (eg. Herakles).

 

One thing I'd like to see them do is add some damage to knockback.  They could then pair this up with Super Strength doing lots OF knockback.  I know, people don't like it, but it's kind of the thing great strength is about... lifting and moving heavy objects.  To represent this, I'd also move Hurl so it's acquired MUCH sooner.

 

Another thing is that the set currently relies far too much on one or two powers.  Without Rage running, the set is very underwhelming, and apart from KO Blow, the damage is pretty mediocre.  Another thought I had is that perhaps Super Strength could be altered to be ALL AOE.  That is, every attack is spread across all targets in range.  If you're fighting a big group of minions, your damage would be spread to each one equally.  If you're fighting ONE enemy, he'd take ALL the damage.  It would also be useful for Tankers that way, as it would spread threat to all the enemies it's hitting.

 

Whatever the case may be, I'd like to see it tweaked to be more in line with the source material.

[Triumphant]

8 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I've LONG suggested Super Strength could use a bit of love.  I mean, it's the single most iconic power of ANY comic character.  You can even go back to ancient mythology, where vast strength was a power of many great heroes (eg. Herakles).

 

One thing I'd like to see them do is add some damage to knockback.  They could then pair this up with Super Strength doing lots OF knockback.  I know, people don't like it, but it's kind of the thing great strength is about... lifting and moving heavy objects.  To represent this, I'd also move Hurl so it's acquired MUCH sooner.

 

Another thing is that the set currently relies far too much on one or two powers.  Without Rage running, the set is very underwhelming, and apart from KO Blow, the damage is pretty mediocre.  Another thought I had is that perhaps Super Strength could be altered to be ALL AOE.  That is, every attack is spread across all targets in range.  If you're fighting a big group of minions, your damage would be spread to each one equally.  If you're fighting ONE enemy, he'd take ALL the damage.  It would also be useful for Tankers that way, as it would spread threat to all the enemies it's hitting.

 

Whatever the case may be, I'd like to see it tweaked to be more in line with the source material.

I like the idea of adding damage to knockback powers (handclap and so on) and putting in even more knockback, but that is a non-starter because the bulk of the player base hates KB and would riot (I do somewhat get it- especially where tankers are concerned.  You want to draw aggro as a tank and keep them glommed onto you.  I personally enjoy KB effects, though.  It's one of the cooler animations in the game.)

 

As to adding MORE AoE, Tankers already got an AoE buff, and I think adding on even more (and increasing damage) to SS gives me balance concerns.  I know SS is a set you can also get on Brutes and what not, so this is not strictly about tankers, but I still think caution is warranted here (granted, careful thought should be given to ANY power tweaks, so suppose that is stating the obvious).

[Ultimo]

9 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

I like the idea of adding damage to knockback powers (handclap and so on) and putting in even more knockback, but that is a non-starter because the bulk of the player base hates KB and would riot (I do somewhat get it- especially where tankers are concerned.  You want to draw aggro as a tank and keep them glommed onto you.  I personally enjoy KB effects, though.  It's one of the cooler animations in the game.)

 

As to adding MORE AoE, Tankers already got an AoE buff, and I think adding on even more (and increasing damage) to SS gives me balance concerns.  I know SS is a set you can also get on Brutes and what not, so this is not strictly about tankers, but I still think caution is warranted here (granted, careful thought should be given to ANY power tweaks, so suppose that is stating the obvious).

Oh, I agree.  Depending on how they handle adding damage to knockback, that alone might be enough to make the anemic damage better, and reduce reliance on Rage.  My main thrust is that the main thing we see strong characters doing is MOVING things (or stopping things from moving).  Anyone can punch, but lifting heavy things is kind of the point of strength.

 

It doesn't have to be a lot.  One thing about fights with super strong characters is the collateral damage.  Just adding some of this to the set might do wonders as well (presentation is half the battle).  Add a little screen shake, some cracks in the ground and dust and debris flying around.  Move Hurl down so it's available earlier, and make it a small AOE.

 

You're right, knockback is reviled today, but that's because the cost of it (ie. spreading enemies out) is greater than the benefit of it (a brief soft control).  If it did some decent damage too, that might be enough to make it useful.  Notice, this would also add a bit of extra damage to powers that are designed specifically for knocks (eg. Force Bolt), which I don't think would be unwelcome.  I'll also point out that there are enhancers that allow you to change knockback to knockDOWN.  Maybe that would make the change palatable.

 

I'd replace Jab, and give the set a power specifically designed to knock foes flying.  Not much damage, but massive knockback, like Force Bolt.  I'd make two basic punches, one single target, one AOE, like Cross Punch.  Then Hurl.  I'd have Rage near the end of the set, and call it something else, since not every super strong character is a rage-monster.  Maybe instead of adding a ton of damage, it could boost secondary effects and reduce endurance costs.  I mean, we see tanky characters in the comics getting knocked around all the time, but never in this game.  If Rage made knock effects irresistable, you could find a super strong character could be knocking down otherwise unknockable characters... which would be appropriate because the character is STRONG.

 

Anyway, it's not that it's in ineffective set for me, it's the presentation more than anything.

[golstat2003]

Adding more KB to powers that don't have KB would make sense, but I don't think it would pass any testing team of players in this current playerbase. I would like it but there would be massive howls about it, so much so that I doubt that would ever happen.

[Biff Pow]

I don't think any major change can be made to Super Strength without getting rid of double-stacked Rage, and that will bring on double-stacked outrage from a lot of players.

 

So my small suggestion is that Jab should be better than Boxing.

[Greycat]

So. The very first character I made in COH way back in i3 was the guy who's my (current) forum avatar - Fire/SS tank. So I've been playing it quite a while. 😉

 

One of the things (just replying to an earlier comment) I like with the older sets is they're not gimmicky - there *are* no circles to chase or combos to deal with. I'd have to stridently hope any adjustments to SS would not tilt it that way. I love it being a fairly straightforward set.

 

I sat for a bit just to think about how I've been using SS, stuff I like and not. I'm *used* to it, basically. No-damage downtime? P2W Sands of Mu and other attacks aren't affected. It's just such a part of using it for me I don't even think of it if downsides are mentioned. No early AOE? Well... still have that P2W Sands, and/or Cross Punch (yes, I go into the fighting pool for that, don't generally care about tough/weave,) or something else that gives an AOE.

 

*For me,* I like the up-and-down nature of Rage. (Also why I don't do things like perma-dom, I prefer it when it's not. Hasn't really hampered me.) I'd like to keep some feel of that if it were reworked. Up the base damage, sure (it *is* super strength,) but ... mm. I don't know how to redo it without (to me, at least, staying with the theme) almost copying Fury.

 

Maybe keep the feel of it by buffing base damage for the set, have Fury do a damage and recharge (for just primary/secondary, if that's too much) buff that keeps building over X time... then a little lower-damge-slower (basically, you used up your reserves and are recovering, without as large of a downtime penalty) when it wears off. *shrugs* A thought.

 

And ... yeah, the damage for knockback is thematic and would help, as would (perhaps) adding a cone to KO blow for some early AOEs. "You hit them hard enough the three guys behind him felt it" is certainly thematic. (Or ... I know, I said I don't want gimmicky, but have the first three attacks just build stacks with a chance to stun/small AOE w/minor damage after so many hit? *shrug* Just make it automatic.)

[PeregrineFalcon]

9 hours ago, Greycat said:

One of the things (just replying to an earlier comment) I like with the older sets is they're not gimmicky - there *are* no circles to chase or combos to deal with. I'd have to stridently hope any adjustments to SS would not tilt it that way. I love it being a fairly straightforward set.

That's what I used to love about Energy Melee. Simple and straightforward. But the devs had to go and add that Energy Focus gimmick. Oh well, at least I got fast ET back.

 

You just know that if they ever work on Super Strength they're going to add their wack-a-mole yellow ring thing, or an Energy Focus, or something. They seem obsessed with adding gimmicks to any powerset they touch.

[megaericzero]

11 hours ago, Greycat said:

One of the things (just replying to an earlier comment) I like with the older sets is they're not gimmicky - there *are* no circles to chase or combos to deal with.

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

That's what I used to love about Energy Melee. Simple and straightforward.

Thank you. 🙌

I have nothing to add to the thread topic but it's incredibly vindicating to hear I'm not the only one that feels that way.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 minute ago, megaericzero said:

Thank you. 🙌

I have nothing to add to the thread topic but it's incredibly vindicating to hear I'm not the only one that feels that way.

In the Energy Melee focused feedback thread no one wanted a combo/gimmick system added to EM. But the devs wouldn't listen and added it anyway. (But I'm the jerk for saying the devs don't listen to feedback, ok.)

 

So yeah, if they ever decide to add some gimmick to Super Strength it's going to get added no matter how hot the forum flames get. Remember, "There's no guarantee, but past actions are the best indicator of future performance." Credit reports and criminal background checks are a thing for a reason.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

In the Energy Melee focused feedback thread no one wanted a combo/gimmick system added to EM. But the devs wouldn't listen and added it anyway. (But I'm the jerk for saying the devs don't listen to feedback, ok.)

I mean the devs couldn’t really listen to feedback in that case considering typical feedback was requesting ridiculously overpowered things like just having 1-second ET all the time. 

[Ultimo]

As I say, there are a couple of changes they could make right off I'd get behind.  First, add damage to knockback.  More knock means more damage.

 

Second, the first three powers should be:

Punch (replaces Jab, which is nearly useless anyway), same as we have now.

Haymaker, much like Cross Punch, a small cone AOE.

Hurl, much as it is now, but has a small AOE for normal damage (it's a big slab, and can hit multiple targets if they're close together), and a diminishing AOE around that (flying debris).

 

Maybe another power whose purpose is entirely to do knockback, to simulate grabbing and throwing an enemy, or swatting him away.

I'd rename Rage, and call it "Gloves Off," or something like that.  While it's active, knockback becomes unresistable, even by AVs and the like.  Strong characters should be able to move even the heaviest, strongest characters.

 

Beyond that...  Well, I'm just kind of spitballing.

[Rudra]

53 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

I'd rename Rage, and call it "Gloves Off," or something like that. 

This part I wholeheartedly agree with. At the very least it would (hopefully) stop the complaints from some SS character players that their character doesn't rage and so they want a new power set that is identical to SS including the Rage power, except with a different name for Rage.