Lots of trademark abuse lately

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Isn't *not* violating someone else's trademark/copyright somewhere in the ToS that every player agrees to when they create an account? 

 

Yes, it is there.  That wasn't really the point though. 

 

8 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Maybe the parts about not violating copyrights and trademarks needs to be made more prominent?

 

3 hours ago, ZacKing said:

I'm just saying I'm seeing a lot of it lately and tossing out the idea that maybe something could be done to make the "no trademarks" part of the CoC more visible to be more obvious.   I'm sure there's people who generally don't know about it. 

 

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, GM Crumpet said:

Beware the Mouse!!

 

[ZacKing]

Just now, Player2 said:

I did not.  I was merely offering additional insight into trademark law.

 

That's wonderful, thank you.  Still seem to be missing the point of the thread though.  Insights into trademark law are totally irrelevant as the rules here are the rules here, so whatever armchair legal interpretation any one of us may make, they're ultimately irrelevant as what HC says goes.  It's their server.  I'm just wondering if there's a way to make this part of the CoC more visible / prominent so more people are aware of it.  

[biostem]

8 hours ago, ZacKing said:

For those who don't know, the words Jedi and Sith are trademarked by Lucasfilm/Disney

Yes, but only in an extremely narrow and specific usage.  If they're not an energy sword wielding force user clad in black or robes, you should be fine...

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Yes, it is there.  That wasn't really the point though. 

Yeah... heaven forbid we hold people accountable to the terms of service that they agreed to.  If they didn't read it, then that's on them.  Being "generic'd" is far from the worst outcome they could face from such a violation, and perhaps it could be a learning moment for them.  It'd be like thinking we need a big popup when you login saying "Now remember that you shouldn't use racial slurs, kiddos!"

[Player2]

7 hours ago, CTOCPO said:

I miss the days when you had to subscribe to a newsletter that was sent through the mail in order to find other crazies like yourself. 🙂

 

I didn't say that I was a member of the officially recognized, tax-exempt status religion based on and named after the trademarked and copyrighted term and concept of Jedi.  I merely pointed out that they exist.  If pointing out the existence of other people's craziness makes people crazies, then you too would be consider one of the crazies for pointing out the mail in order to find out about other crazies.  Everyone is crazy.

[Neiska]

[lemming]

4 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

That's not how trademarks work.

 

The word 'Apple' has been around for a long time, but it would still be a bad choice of name for a new smartphone company.

Even in that case, the computer company had to settle a case with Apple Records.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

 

Looking for excellence.

[Seed22]

Oh wow nerds arguing about copyright law and NONE of them have ever practiced law! This’ll be fun. *
 

But as the OP pointed out it could be good to maybe I dunno highlight that part about infringement or whatever if its really an issue? I haven’t been on in a little while until yesterday  and when I did get on I didnt see any supermans or batmans or what have you. What server are you seeing this on OP? 
 

 

*Google gives you an idea of how its supposed to work, but thats not always how it plays out, or maybe even in modern days, usually how it plays out. Its like how I read about certain things and practices in supply chain, but having been in it, seen how it kinda sorta mostly works that way but definitely not always, or even times where it straight up threw the definition out the window. 
 

Point is, I don’t think its a good idea to argue law at each other. This isn’t court and none of you are lawyers. 

Edited May 29 by Seed22

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

Point is, I don’t think its a good idea to argue law at each other. This isn’t court and none of you are lawyers. 

I'm at work now. In my office at a law firm in the US. Bottom line, you don't know what you're talking about, nor do you know who you're talking to. Just because we're on a forum on the internet doesn't mean that we all work part time stocking shelves at Walmart.

 

13 hours ago, ZacKing said:

That's wonderful, thank you.  Still seem to be missing the point of the thread though.  Insights into trademark law are totally irrelevant as the rules here are the rules here, so whatever armchair legal interpretation any one of us may make, they're ultimately irrelevant as what HC says goes.  It's their server.  I'm just wondering if there's a way to make this part of the CoC more visible / prominent so more people are aware of it.  

Agreed. That's why my suggestion is for Homecoming to have a big sign in the character creator that specifically tells people not to make trademarked characters.

[ZacKing]

13 hours ago, biostem said:

Yes, but only in an extremely narrow and specific usage.  If they're not an energy sword wielding force user clad in black or robes, you should be fine...

 

You seem to have missed the part in my post where I specifically pointed out that the names were only part of it.  Costumes and character bios were violations too.  Again, it's not up to any of us to decide.  It's HC's call.

 

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

But as the OP pointed out it could be good to maybe I dunno highlight that part about infringement or whatever if its really an issue? I haven’t been on in a little while until yesterday  and when I did get on I didnt see any supermans or batmans or what have you. What server are you seeing this on OP? 

 

Making the parts in the CoC about not violating copyrights/trademarks somehow more prominent is what I was suggesting.  I play mostly on Excelsior, Torchbearer and sometimes Everlasting.  Mostly Excelsior.  I see flagrant violations fairly regularly there.  Spend some time in Atlas Park and they're cropping up. 

 

13 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Agreed. That's why my suggestion is for Homecoming to have a big sign in the character creator that specifically tells people not to make trademarked characters.

 

Thank you.  At least someone got it!  I think you might have something there.  We do have loading screen tips... maybe it could work in the character creator.  Not a bad idea at all.

 

[ZacKing]

13 hours ago, biostem said:

Yeah... heaven forbid we hold people accountable to the terms of service that they agreed to.  If they didn't read it, then that's on them. 

 

No one is suggesting people should not be held accountable for violating the CoC and ToS they agree to by logging in.  Where you're getting that from is beyond me.  I agree, the onus is on the player to read the rules, however I can totally understand why most people don't read it.

 

There is specific verbage in the CoC that talks about wasting volunteer time.  If adding some instructions/clarification into the costume editor about not violating existing trademarks helps eliminate a good chunk of the trademark violation reports, that's freeing up volunteer time to do other things like helping out players with in-game bugs and issues.

[Oklahoman]

It used to really bother me when I'd log in and see a big green character wearing only cutoff pants (purple, of course) with a name like "Incredible Savage". Now I just tend to play the game and enjoy it. Someone else can report them if they feel like they need to.

 

If it bothers you, report it and move on. We have no guarantee the game will be here for us past today under any circumstance. Enjoy it while you can. Bigger fish to fry.

[Excraft]

I like the idea of adding a reminder/tooltip about this into the costume editor.  If it helps get rid of a good amount of support tickets, that's a good thing. 

[Herotu]

This is why I propose mandatory memorisation of all copyrights (and laws, for that matter) in schools.

 

IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE!

[Seed22]

6 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm at work now. In my office at a law firm in the US. Bottom line, you don't know what you're talking about, nor do you know who you're talking to. Just because we're on a forum on the internet doesn't mean that we all work part time stocking shelves at Walmart.

Im sure you are.  I don’t claim to know copyright law, certainly not as well as members of my family who ARE lawyers. Like I said, I work in supply chain, specifically as an Inventory Specialist and prior Traffic Flow Analyst. You do NOT want to ask me about legal matters lol. 
 

But what I do know is if that part of the CoC highlighted info about copyright infringement characters that’d be great. 
 

I don’t know what any of you do, for all I know you could very well be lying about working in a law firm, or better yet, you could just be some little assistant to the ACTUAL lawyer in the firm, again I dunno. Hell you could doubt me too. Alas, thats the fun of the internet.

 

*And, assuming you’re not lying, I shouldn’t need to say that there are MANY many many subsets of well…lawyer. Civil law, environmental law, corporate lawyer, criminal…you get it. One may know more about something like copyright than another.

Edited May 29 by Seed22

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

But what I do know is if that part of the CoC highlighted info about copyright infringement characters that’d be great. 

I agree with you on this.

 

The second post in this thread is literally me saying this: "They should have a sign somewhere in the character creator, that players can't miss, that explains to people that if the name/backstory/costume appears to be, or appears similar to, a trademarked character then their account could be perma-banned."

 

In any case my employment, or yours, or copyright law, isn't the point of this thread.

[Seed22]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I agree with you on this

I didnt even know it was in it, I certainly didnt read the damn thing haha. But then again, I view copying existing characters to a T instead of making a homage based off of the tropes and personality they portray as tantamount to creative bankruptcy. 
 

Not enough to waste my time reporting every single one but you get my point.

 

I’m really surprised its not highlighted already. I mean, this IS a superhero MMO with a robust creator. That should be near the top of the list of things to pin, so to speak

Edited May 29 by Seed22

[Ghost]

I report everyone!

Let the GMs sort it out!

 

 

Edited May 29 by Ghost

[Haijinx]

I enjoy playing Jedi and Sith characters ... in the Star Wars universe.  

 

So generally one of the Old Republic games.  

 

Seems weird to have them in a comic book universe. 

 

----

Was never a fan of Crossovers.  Never wanter Superman in a Marvel Universe story.  Never want to see Spiderman teaming up with Ninja Turtles etc.  

---

 

So all these infringement DO seem uncreative to me. Not because I think a character needs to be really unique.  But because I think they should come from the COX universe. 

[Ukase]

I saw a "Wafer Thin Mint" a few days ago. I chuckled. My concern is they make an evil alter ego Mr. Creosote. 
Sadly, our huge characters aren't quite huge enough, but that might be a bit too close to the IP of Monty Python. 

[Triumphant]

You can make a similar looking character with a different name and background, but you still need to make the costume notably different in some way.  Or you you can make a parody character (parodies are protected under free speech).  So you CAN'T make Bruce Banner, The Incredible Hulk.  But you CAN make, Spruce Planner, the Unbearable Sulk.

 

Here's the bottom line, though.  This is a private server, and you are a guest here.  If the people running the server are not comfortable with the character you're playing and are worried about running afoul of copywrite violations, and those same people tell you to change the appearance or name of the character for those reasons, you really need to respect their hospitality by complying, or else go find some other place to play.

 

Just one dude's opinion.  This is a great game and it's free to play.  I don't wanna rock that boat, mang.

[Player2]

5 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

You can make a similar looking character with a different name and background, but you still need to make the costume notably different in some way.  Or you you can make a parody character (parodies are protected under free speech).  So you CAN'T make Bruce Banner, The Incredible Hulk.  But you CAN make, Spruce Planner, the Unbearable Sulk.

 

Parodies may be protected under free speech, but that doesn't mean that HC has to allow them.  The problem with parodies is determining whether or not they actually are parodies or an infringement on someone's trademark or copyright.  You know where that determination is made?  In court.  Especially in the case of trademark law where trademarks must be defended or else presumed that the trademark holder has abandoned them.  So while you are free to parody things on your own, if they look too spot on in this game then that's probably going to get targeted for genericization like any other non-parody trademark/copyright infringing character.

[Triumphant]

2 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Parodies may be protected under free speech, but that doesn't mean that HC has to allow them.  The problem with parodies is determining whether or not they actually are parodies or an infringement on someone's trademark or copyright.  You know where that determination is made?  In court.  Especially in the case of trademark law where trademarks must be defended or else presumed that the trademark holder has abandoned them.  So while you are free to parody things on your own, if they look too spot on in this game then that's probably going to get targeted for genericization like any other non-parody trademark/copyright infringing character.

Homecoming doesn't have to allow anything.  You didn't read my entire post.