Is Range Underrated?

[Doomguide2005]

     Used to sit up on the War Wall in Creys Folly  using Moonbeam to snipe with my Emp/Dark. Effective not so much.  Fun, why yes thank you.  Especially watching the blast follow a Freakshow running about like a headless chicken as he vanished out of sight my only knowledge of his fate watching the chat as he dropped out of sight, defeated.

[Nemu]

The majority of builds I see on the blaster forums are hover blasters that avoid melee at all costs, and that sentiment correlates to the majority of blaster players I see in game.

 

No I think range is pretty well represented, overrated even.

 

I know I'm misinterpreting the original intent of the topic. Don't mind me.

Edited June 26 by Nemu

[arcane]

Range is arguably overrated. Top tier players usually hang out closer to melee regardless of AT because that’s where Transfusion, Fulcrum Shift, Wild Bastion, etc are going off. 

[Snarky]

20 hours ago, FupDup said:

I don't think his argument was that Sents have great range (they don't of course), the argument is that they aren't as melee-reliant as the average Blaster. Sents really only need to melee for either a PBAOE that some primaries have or an epic pool melee attack if you opt for one. On the flipside, most Blaster secondaries come with multiple melee powers and they tend to have higher DPA than their so-called "primary" powers. 

 

Blasters can and do still choose to go without those melees of course, but comparatively speaking they "lose" more than a Sentinel who chooses not to pick up a singular level 35 epic melee. Excluding certain manip sets like Tac Arrow of course. 

a beam rifle sent can sit at the edge of the madness and do serious grief to bosses/ebs/avs.  Sent Beam/Will is a joy for this.

[ScarySai]

On 6/22/2024 at 9:07 PM, Gentoo said:

Psi is the farthest range blast set.

 

Assault rifle:

[FupDup]

Psi has multiple attacks that hit 100ft baseline, but AR only has 1 (not counting snipes). Additionally, its snipe goes slightly further (175 vs 150). 

 

However, all of that is contradicted by Psi's nuke being melee. Seems like a weird design choice to give the longest base ranges to a set with melee in it but w/e. 

Edited June 28 by FupDup

[Frozen Burn]

3 hours ago, FupDup said:

However, all of that is contradicted by Psi's nuke being melee. Seems like a weird design choice to give the longest base ranges to a set with melee in it but w/e. 

 

It's classic superhero with some believable realism thrown in.... mental/psy energy can reach farther for single targets or small groups, but a build up and PBAOE explosion of that psy energy to affect all surrounding you - classic.   I wouldn't have it any other way.  🙂  

[Gentoo]

Psi/Energy has turned out to be the most fun I've had with a blaster in all my days on City of Heroes.

[Shred Monkey]

On 6/25/2024 at 8:17 PM, Snarky said:

i have taken range to the extreme with a build like AR/Dev with +range in set bonuses and alpha slot.  this lengthens cones and provides safety.  in my opinion this is the best value for building +range.  

 

Cones with +range are nasty nasty things.  I highly recommend abusing this option when possible.

[WuTang]

On 6/25/2024 at 10:35 PM, Heatstroke said:

  

When the advice is given in a less condescending " you're doing it wrong, you should be doing it this way " attitude.. ill respect it.. 

Dude you've posted twice now and not a single bit of advice only complaints...you probably grind somebody's gears too doing that. Sovera is cool AF. And probably doesn't need me playing defender but come on at least add something to the convo.

 

Having said that... My only blaster is an Ele/Ele/Mu and I hover-blast with him. I find that as long as the T9 attack isn't a PBAOE then you can get away with it better without taking much off the table. I like staying at range, but as many have said playing in tight quarters nearly eliminates the advantage. Which is also why I spec'd into Electric Fence, Tesla Cage, and the other single hold (can't think of the name) and they pretty much hold anything when stacking them.

[Heatstroke]

9 hours ago, WuTang said:

Dude you've posted twice now and not a single bit of advice only complaints...you probably grind somebody's gears too doing that. Sovera is cool AF. And probably doesn't need me playing defender but come on at least add something to the convo.

 

Having said that... My only blaster is an Ele/Ele/Mu and I hover-blast with him. I find that as long as the T9 attack isn't a PBAOE then you can get away with it better without taking much off the table. I like staying at range, but as many have said playing in tight quarters nearly eliminates the advantage. Which is also why I spec'd into Electric Fence, Tesla Cage, and the other single hold (can't think of the name) and they pretty much hold anything when stacking them.

 

 

Actually I made three posts.. And the first was the encouraging one.. sorry you missed that one.. 

 

carry on..

[WuTang]

12 hours ago, Heatstroke said:

 

 

Actually I made three posts.. And the first was the encouraging one.. sorry you missed that one.. 

 

carry on..

Funny how the good can be erased by the bad...hmm.

[tidge]

Non-player perspective on how range is not under-rated: If the grim vale event is allowed to commence, it is almost always Team Pumpkin that will be left standing. This is true of every wave. The Witches hover-blast (and run away fast), the Pumpkins attack almost exclusively at range and/or have ranged AoE attacks. When the GMs come out, the auto-hit PBAoE from Eochai makes short work of any of Jack's minions. Eventually Jack's cone/melee can eliminate the scrubs of team Eochai, but how quickly depends on random pathing.

[Heatstroke]

2 hours ago, WuTang said:

Funny how the good can be erased by the bad...hmm.

 

It wasnt erased. You never saw it.. and you didnt have the temerity to go back and admit that you stated that I made TWO posts.. when I made THREE. You jumped into the end of a conversation which had died.. and decided to throw in your two cents and revive it.. but Ive got plenty of time for the smoke. 

And my last two comments did not negate my prior comment that range is NOT underrated.. I stated how I have used range to my advantage on my characters.. 

 

But sure make me the bad guy 

 

For stating 

 

1) its your game, play however you want to play

2) Dont let someone else pigeon hole you into THEIR idea of whats correct
 

3) and saying there is no WRONG way to play.

 

Im here for the smoke...

 

 

Edited July 3 by Heatstroke

[WuTang]

31 minutes ago, Heatstroke said:

 

It wasnt erased. You never saw it.. and you didnt have the temerity to go back and admit that you stated that I made TWO posts.. when I made THREE. You jumped into the end of a conversation which had died.. and decided to throw in your two cents and revive it.. but Ive got plenty of time for the smoke. 

And my last two comments did not negate my prior comment that range is NOT underrated.. I stated how I have used range to my advantage on my characters.. 

 

But sure make me the bad guy 

 

For stating 

 

1) its your game, play however you want to play

2) Dont let someone else pigeon hole you into THEIR idea of whats correct
 

3) and saying there is no WRONG way to play.

 

Im here for the smoke...

 

 

My guy...what's your deal? Look forum disagreements are pointless, as is getting the last word, which I will let you have if you reply. Sovera wasn't demanding anyone do anything, so if a person decides to be "pigeon-holed" based on another person perspective then that's on them. You read negativity when there was none and only because you don't see it Sovera's way, and that says alot about you. And numbering out your points like that...what a tool. Smoke more, you may care less.

 

Either way hover blasting is fun as hell. I'd love to make a toon with insane range just to mess with baddies, but 100ish feet is plenty for me.

[Gentoo]

Just to clarify, by extreme range I don't mean merely being out of melee. I mean being so far out that you are beyond their detect range, they run towards you but then walk away because you are beyond their chase distance. It feels like breaking the game playing this far away. And it looks ridiculous hitting stuff that is so far away that you can't even really see it.

[Bionic_Flea]

Been there, done that.  😁

 

 

[Without_Pause]

20 hours ago, Gentoo said:

Just to clarify, by extreme range I don't mean merely being out of melee. I mean being so far out that you are beyond their detect range, they run towards you but then walk away because you are beyond their chase distance. It feels like breaking the game playing this far away. And it looks ridiculous hitting stuff that is so far away that you can't even really see it.

You must play on different maps than I do. 😆

[ScarySai]

On 6/28/2024 at 1:18 PM, FupDup said:

Psi has multiple attacks that hit 100ft baseline, but AR only has 1 (not counting snipes). Additionally, its snipe goes slightly further (175 vs 150). 

 

Ar gets way more mileage out of range ios/boost range, though.

Edited July 5 by ScarySai

[Gentoo]

On 7/4/2024 at 9:48 PM, ScarySai said:

 

Ar gets way more mileage out of range ios/boost range, though.

 

Why is that? Don't the Psi attacks accept boost range nd range ios and get even more range out of it? Or are they hitting a range cap of some sort?

If there is a range cap, it is very very extreme, since I'm hitting stuff I can barely see.

[Maelwys]

41 minutes ago, Gentoo said:

 

Why is that? Don't the Psi attacks accept boost range nd range ios and get even more range out of it? Or are they hitting a range cap of some sort?

If there is a range cap, it is very very extreme, since I'm hitting stuff I can barely see.

 

I suspect the point being made there was that if you add +range to a powerset that relies on Cone attacks then it's damage output will ramp up drastically because those cones will suddenly find it substantially easier to hit their target caps.

[tidge]

4 hours ago, Maelwys said:

 

I suspect the point being made there was that if you add +range to a powerset that relies on Cone attacks then it's damage output will ramp up drastically because those cones will suddenly find it substantially easier to hit their target caps.

 

Assault Rifle's Nuke (Full Auto) has both an inherently long range (80') and very wide arc (90°)... and with how most large spawns are positioned, the added range makes it easier to find everything in the target cap (10 IIRC). I'm always a little surprised how many critters can get swept up in it, even without +Range bonuses.

 

AR isn't unique, but it is one of those sets with attacks (including multiple cones) with wildly different ranges. On my AR Blaster I did not even attempt to 'even them up', rather I shift between attack chains depending on enemy positioning. I also found that Blapping did not come naturally to my choice of AR/Plant, so I think of the different ranges of the various attacks as a sort of compromise to being willing to be 'in the mix'.

 

This is in contrast with my Archery/Trick Arrow Blaster for which I made an effort to slot the short-range attacks with Range enhancements specifically to be able to better stay in place (at range).

 

The only other Blaster I can think of where I made a conscious choice to add range to a cone is on a Dark Blaster's Umbral Torrent. This is a T3 cone with a long range albeit small arc. It also happens to be a good candidate for %damage and offers knockback/knockdown... which I find most useful for grabbing the attention of distant spawns without being immediately overwhelmed by them. The small arc otherwise makes Umbral Torrent a somewhat poor choice for close combat fighting against multiple nearby enemies.

 

 

[Jacke]

There's also the temporary range boost from using a Sniper attack.

[Ukase]

There have been some fairly sharp people giving opinions on this matter, and as I read the OP, I say carry on with what's working for you. 

It sounds like something I do from time to time when I'm solo, but not anything I'd gear my build around. 

I find that no matter what character you're on, going into melee is usually a risk, but pays off by faster XP. The key is knowing when to go on, and when to stay out. 

If I'm on a blaster for a master run, unless it's a mental secondary, I don't really have much reason to go into melee and risk the higher chance of splash damage or a stun, etc. 

But if it's just casual play, I like getting into melee. The only blaster I don't normally do that with is my ice blaster, because there's no real AoE damage to be done in melee - at least, not compared to something like fire. (talking mainly about primary here) 

So, for me, range is underrated, in the sense the only time I'm concerned about range is if I'm on a Master of Underground trial and the lead wants snipers for the hallway with the bombs set up at alternating sides of the hallway, 75 feet apart. (as opposed to spaceballs/zerg method) 



 

[Seed22]

On 6/25/2024 at 10:35 PM, Heatstroke said:

  

When the advice is given in a less condescending " you're doing it wrong, you should be doing it this way " attitude.. ill respect it.. 

I rarely give advice, and when I do its usually in a less “you’re wrong I’m right” manner.

 

But I also never take advice from anyone on these forums. There are 10 people I trust for build advice in this game, and 1 of them is myself. And I don’t think any but 1 are on the forums.
 

I only take advice from those 9 as they are some of the best players in this game and regularly speed 4*. 
 

But I also understand not everyone values what I do.

Edited July 22 by Seed22