Whitecap why? (aint nuthin but a heart break...)

[arcane]

20 hours ago, luxlorica said:

Are there versions of those ATs that benefit from being in the grinder?
 

Every AT benefits from being in melee range btw. That’s where the Fulcrum Shifts and Heat Losses and Transfusions and what have you are going off.

[evetsleep]

Let me just say .... I LOVE Whitecap my marine builds so far... but sometimes you need to gauge when to use it (if on a team, let the tank get aggro first). 

 

So far I have

• Fire\Marine Controller
• Necro\Marine MM
• Ninja\Marine MM
• Marine\Sonic Defender
• Marine\Seismic Defender

I have plans to eventually go super aggressive and to a Marine\Fire defender (or flip it and do a corr) and also a gravity\marine controller.

 

All of the above I've found ways to make whitecap useful and fun.  As others have said this innate fear of close (not necessarily melee) range can cause you to leave a lot of damage on the table.  That's perfectly ok if that's your thing.  The thing is whitecap offers up some really good -RES debuffs along with KD and a little damage, which makes it extremely useful to use (especially if you add in procs).

 

It really is a risk vs. reward scenario..very much like the old hover blaster vs. blapper debate.  I have been treating my marine toons like a KIN (where you have to be used to getting close) and I've found it pretty darn rewarding and fun.

[luxlorica]

38 minutes ago, evetsleep said:

So far I have

• Fire\Marine Controller
• Necro\Marine MM
• Ninja\Marine MM
• Marine\Sonic Defender
• Marine\Seismic Defender

 

Is there a real difference between how Marine works with Necro vs How it works with Ninjas?

I have a Necro build right now (With Whitecap) and its pretty good, the zombos are decently tough and tidepool helps them do their part. Its a slow but reliable burn for me so far.

[evetsleep]

1 hour ago, luxlorica said:

Is there a real difference between how Marine works with Necro vs How it works with Ninjas?

I have a Necro build right now (With Whitecap) and its pretty good, the zombos are decently tough and tidepool helps them do their part. Its a slow but reliable burn for me so far.

Well necro is primarily a resist primary which benefits from the +RES bubbles, whereas then ninjas benefit later on from the +DEF power, but also from the RES bubbles which makes them more durable.

 

Really it's about experimentation for me.  Ninjas and necro play similar, but often I feel like ninjas put out a little more damage in certain scenarios.

 

I haven't decided which one I like more with Marine yet.  I would say necro is much stronger when all the uniques are slotted which is kind of unique to them (which makes me wonder if it'll be ...ahem.. adjusted one day).

[vibal]

hot feet, choking cloud, conductive aura....

[golstat2003]

OP, until you get used to moving into melee: pop 2-3 purple insps for defense (and 1-2 resistance if you are feeling spooked by melee range), then move into where you need to be and go to town. 😁

[evetsleep]

11 hours ago, vibal said:

hot feet, choking cloud, conductive aura....

As someone with  fire/Marine controller I can say Marine takes the edge off running hot feet in a very meaningful way as soon as I picked it before making any QoL slotting choices while leveling.

 

If anything Marine Affinity is a fantastic set to combine with endurance intensive sets.  I friggin love getting in a Super Stunners face and not worrying about what'll happen when they die the first time.

[bigmarty]

It’s been great on my necromancy mastermind. By the time the mobs are back on their feet, my zombies are on top of them grabbing the aggro.

[Riverdusk]

I think the fact that it does knockdown takes the edge of danger off it a lot.  You can jump in with it, knock most things down, and jump right back out before they can even stand back up if you don't want to stay in melee.  The bubbles even give you extra jump.

 

I'd say the only one it might mess with is the hover blaster style, which I really don't do.  Even then I'd think you could hover back up out of range while they are knocked down?

 

I do find myself doing a lot of jumping around on my thugs/marine MM with the set.    Still less than I probably do with my dominators though.

 

Probably the biggest reason is less the danger and more that in order to use the heal you do have to be somewhat at range since it is a cone.  Whitecap and soothing aura definitely work somewhat at odds.  I think the devs like to encourage players to move around though, always have.

Edited July 26 by Riverdusk

[Techwright]

I discovered another nice feature of whitecap:  it can take you through walls.  I was teamed in the Citadel TF, we were in one of those caves with the building-like structures.  Fighting was fierce in the doorway, and I saw through the slotted window that more were fighting us from the inside.  Whitecap took me through all of that into the crowd inside, knocked them down, and I was able to keep them from continuing to attack the teammates in the doorway until they cleared enough that we could take the full interior. 

 

I repeated it a few times.  Even if my target moved behind a wall, I could still get him.  Pretty useful trick.

[Ukase]

On 7/24/2024 at 6:54 PM, luxlorica said:

When would whitecap ever be a good idea?

It's a bit of a difficult question to answer. 

For kicks and grins, I'll try. 

Useful when there's a collection of npcs in one concentrated area. I do see a water world where I might use combat teleport and whitecap together, if I think I'm too fragile to withstand the aftermath. The thing to remember is the kd. One thing about npcs (and players alike) - when you're getting back up from being knocked down, you're not attacking. 

So, it's completely safe to use this power - except against those npcs that don't kd easily. I wouldn't use it against EBs or AVs, but the rest don't hit that hard, so who cares? 
Granted, at level 6, a +3 boss would probably have a tough alpha. Just depends. This is why I recommend leveling up as opposed to a quick PL - to figure these things out. 

So, I would suggest we consider it a good idea when things are casual, when you're just grinding out a mission. 
I wouldn't suggest using it during a Master run, unless you know you'll be okay. 

So, pretty much, it's a good idea at least 85% of the time. But that's just my opinion. 

[mechahamham]

On 7/24/2024 at 11:58 PM, Snarky said:

i once worshipped at the altar of Ranged Squishies.  'tis a false Gawd.  

 

Debuffs, Volume Damage, and various mitigation strategies means being in the center of the hurt locker is the most effective spot.  

 

if you are buffing / debuffing join my Blasters there.  

 

This is the way.

 

If you're non-armored and you're a) not moving around the battle as needed, or b) not staying in the thick of the melee to affect what goes on there, you're just not gonna be as effective as someone who does either of those things.

[Nostromo21]

I'm playing a Marine/Water Defender now, because...FOMO? 😉

Even solo, I tend to Shoal Rush packs at range, then Whitecap into the middle of them (Soothing Wave hits them too), then hit my bind key to teleport (translocate) backwards/up out of reach. Then, while they are already triple-debuffed, I start peppering them at range with Water and other powers. I'm only low level still, but even I can see how effective those debuffs are for controlling a fight. And I have so many more ahead - yet to try/take Tide Pool, Water Burst, Whirlpool, Dehydrate, Brine, Waterjet, Steam Spray and Geyser, ALL of which perform some sort of debuff or other. As someone said, seems to be a very OP powerset right now, which will be fun for a little while :).

[mechahamham]

1 hour ago, Nostromo21 said:

then hit my bind key to teleport (translocate) backwards/up out of reach.

 

If you can get the hang of teleporting around a battle or even a map, it makes being debuff, control, or dps massively more effective and useful. The new(er) powexeclocation command enables this in a way that is even better.

 

For example, if I have only an area heal, I can target a wounded ally, TP close to them with a hotkey, fire off the heal, and then TP right back on top of the main agro.

 

Getting little routines set up like Nostromo's where you just instinctively hit your 'TTFO' button as part of an attack/debuff chain is a path that not many think about pursuing. It is SO worth it.

[Scarlet Shocker]

 

[BazookaTwo]

On 7/25/2024 at 4:12 PM, Digirium said:

It is probably a better idea to take Whitecap in the mid-20s over when it is available at level 6.

 

I completely disagree with this, but then, I always start my blast sets with a ST, then a cone/AOE. 

 

By the time you get Tide Pool, you can have 3-4 slots in Whitecap. It's great cheap recharge, and mitigation. 

 

I'm playing a Marine/Storm Blast/Soul Mastery Defender. Tide Pool and Storm Cell together are like a mister on a hot day in Vegas. Usually my chain is Storm Cell/Tide Pool, Storm Cell, Chain Lightning, Jet Stream, then Whitecap. Then I Jump backwards and hit Jet Stream and snipe whatever is still standing. 

Edited July 27 by BazookaTwo

[momentarygrace]

On 7/24/2024 at 7:11 PM, JasperStone said:

 

Not ANymore

 

 

[Nostromo21]

17 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

 I more partial to this version 😉

 

 

[Nostromo21]

I must say, playing this MA/Water Def feels more like a dps/domtroller/def all rolled into one! It's crazy OP... 😁

[Wavicle]

There's an erroneous assumption that if Whitecap did not teleport the caster it would be a RANGED ability. Far more likely, if it didn't teleport, it would simply be PBAoE, making you go to melee ANYWAY.

[Digirium]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:48 PM, BazookaTwo said:

I completely disagree with this, but then, I always start my blast sets with a ST, then a cone/AOE.

 

You can build however you want but I decided Whitecap was more effective later on.

 

I did start with the intention to take Whitecap @ 24 on a Defender build but moved it up to 20 instead, immediately before Barrier Reef. That way the build had enough going on to make Whitecap the most effective it could be with resistances, defense, accuracy and defense de-buff. The build works very well.

 

On random teams Marine Affinity is popular more than Assault Control was when it appeared.

 

 

 

Edited July 29 by Digirium

[Nostromo21]

20 hours ago, Digirium said:

 

You can build however you want but I decided Whitecap was more effective later on.

 

I did start with the intention to take Whitecap @ 24 on a Defender build but moved it up to 20 instead, immediately before Barrier Reef. That way the build had enough going on to make Whitecap the most effective it could be with resistances, defense, accuracy and defense de-buff. The build works very well.

 

On random teams Marine Affinity is popular more than Assault Control was when it appeared.

 

 

 

 

I'm going for Shifting Tides at 20 next, then Barrier Reef, Tidal Forces and Power of the Depths by 26, to finish off MA, then round out pools with most of the Water Blast powers from 28+. Even now it feels so good both solo AND in groups, I'm just floored (like most of the mobs are most of the time! ;). Will probably get the Leviathan powers from 38 just for the theme.

I've skipped Hasten - do I even need it with so many powers...? Also, I grabbed Mystic Flight at 6 and Stealth at 10, so might need to insert Hover in there somewhere for the extra control while pew pewing.

[tidge]

11 hours ago, Nostromo21 said:

I've skipped Hasten - do I even need it with so many powers...? Also, I grabbed Mystic Flight at 6 and Stealth at 10, so might need to insert Hover in there somewhere for the extra control while pew pewing.

 

There are only two reasons IMO to take Hasten:

• The character intends to use so few attacks that they need Hasten to sustain the chosen attack chain, and (related)
• There is one (or more) extremely long recharge (or otherwise cornerstone) power that requires the extra global Recharge (e.g. Domination on some builds)

 

[Techwright]

Found yet another great use of Whitecap: dealing with annoying Crey Juggernauts and Paragon Protectors.  You know the ones:  down to the last few health points they hit the "I Cheat Legally" button and deflect everything for another minute or two (I don't recall the exact amount of time).

 

Running Manticore TF, I realized Whitecap is a near perfect counter to this.  When I see one of the PP in the last 20-25% of health, target them and hit Whitecap.  Your pounce will likely knock them down or otherwise interrupt their ability to cast, giving you or your team the freedom to finish them off.  I tore through quite a few of them using this technique.

[Lusiphur Malache]

I thought like the OP when my Ice/Marine corruptor got to Whitecap.  So much that I didn't pick it and ran in fear over to Stealth.  Next time I did pick it and it works great for me and I even have the beginnings of a plan.  Course I have Scourge to bail me out of a lot of jams.