Are there any powersets which are better on Brute than on other AT's ?

[Icono04]

I hope this question makes sense, but if not, another way to phrase it would be: If you have ever told someone "hey, if you only play [insert name of powerset here] once in your lifetime, you should play it on a brute, they get the best version of it" - what powerset(s) was that?

 

A bit of clarification: It seems to be generally agreed that where the same powerset can be played on several different AT's, it is better on some of those AT's than on others. Regen and elec melee are the only two I really know about, but I assume the same holds true for most if not all powersets, primary as well as secondary.

For myself, I haven't done very well with the few brutes I have played (eng/eng back on Live, elec/elec, kin/elec and db/fire on HC). That is a me problem, not the AT's fault; for whatever reason, brute is one of the AT's that just I just can't seem to gel with. I wonder, though, if the lack of gellling is because I was playing powersets which are more difficult to play, especially for someone like me for whom the brute playstyle is not intuitive.

And before anyone says "don't follow the meta, just play what you enjoy", the problem is that I have tried that 4 times already and failed to enjoy it, so maybe it is time to see if "the wisdom of the crowd" is better at picking brutes for me than I myself am 🙂  Oh, and this would be intended for PvE only, an even mix of solo and PUG teams, levelling on story arcs and TFs, maybe some itrials but no starred content or other hard content.

 

So, what powersets live their best life on a brute?  😉  As usual, many thanks in advance.

[Without_Pause]

Regen and EA since you can't get them on a Tanker. 😆 The bigger AoEs for the damage auras looks to win out on a Tanker versus a Brute, but hell if I'm not having fun on my Axe/stone. For melee sets, it gets harder. Savage could be in the conversation since it is so DoT based. It might overtake the bigger AoEs of a Tanker and the fact that Stalkers get a legit ST heavy hitter out of it, but DoT isn't really what a Stalker wants as it wants high burst damage. 

[Maelwys]

IMO since Fury has a big effect on Brimstone Procs; Stone Armor (non Granite) is a major contender for your secondary.
And since it also buffs DoT damage; Fiery Aura isn't bad either.

For Primary? Nothing will match a Scrapper vs a Pylon; and nothing will match a Tanker on an AE Farming map or ITF kill-most run... but if you go by Ston's old 2022 Melee Powerset Comparison for Trapdoor (back whenever that mission was a decent finger in the air for "overall offensive effectiveness") then the powersets that pull a smidge ahead or come very close on a Brute are: Staff Melee, Kinetic Melee, Super Strength, Electric Melee, Titan Weapons and Broadsword.
Of those I would probably go with Super Strength, personally. Single-stacked Rage slotted for +ToHit can do most of the heavy lifting to buff your accuracy levels enough to 6-slot your attack powers with Damage Procs... and the crash is much less of an issue whenever you're not double-stacking it and your attacks are proc-heavy.

TL;DR: "Maybe try a SS/Stone Brute?"
 

Edited September 24 by Maelwys

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

... but if you go by Ston's old 2022 Melee Powerset Comparison for Trapdoor (back whenever that mission was a decent finger in the air for "overall offensive effectiveness") then the powersets that pull a smidge ahead or come very close on a Brute are: Staff Melee, Kinetic Melee, Super Strength, Electric Melee, Titan Weapons and Broadsword.

 

Keep in mind Kinetic (and Psionic, which was missed) are underpowered, and Staff and Electric are mediocre. 

 

As for a suggestion, you might give Savage/Electric, Savage/Bio, or Savage/Fire a go--depending on what flavor or perks you want from your armor set. SS/Bio is my primary Brute and works well. (I have an SS/EA I am casually working up and she works well too.)

 

My most recent Brute (for redside play) is an Energy/Electric and has been enjoyable (at least up to level 35). Electric will not perform better on a Scrapper or Stalker, and you get a damage aura increased by Fury (a trick Tankers cannot match). Add too that while Tanker do get more area for their area attacks, Energy Melee's big hitters are single-target.

 

It is painfully obvious Brutes need something but we cannot even have the conversation as when the issue pops up, people who never post in the Brute forum (other than to suggest whatever power combination is under discussion would be better played on another AT) and sometimes admit they do not even play Brutes show up to insist Brutes are fine.

 

So for the time being, look to the specific combinations which either cannot be had on other ATs or which in combination emerge better for Brutes.

Edited September 24 by Erratic1

[WuTang]

Primaries: Super Strength, Radiation, Energy, and I personally like Electric

 

Secondaries: Invulnerability, Bio, Fiery Aura, and again personally I like Electric

 

It's all down to playstyle, IMO. I don't gel well with Doms but have played on teams with some and they absolutely were clutch. I like Brutes and Corruptors. I have others that I like playing but those two ATs are my jam. And I think it's down to synergy within your build that'll determine if it's a "must play." I have a Rad/Fire Brute whose endurance use is crazy, but he absolutely melts mobs. And I have an EM/Rad that I can mash attacks 90 to nuthin and endurance is never an issue, and the ST attacks are brutal. I'm working on a Rad/Rad build, on paper it looks solid, we'll see how the combo plays out, could be my next "must play."

 

I say keep rolling the dice, but then you could be to Brutes as I am to Doms...just not in the cards.

 

I do agree with @Erratic1 that Brutes need a lil love, but that could just be my bias shining through.

[Uun]

Resistance-based armors (Dark, Electric, Fire and Radiation) are better on brutes than on scrappers or stalkers because of the higher resistance cap. They will still perform better on tanks than brutes due to the higher resist values. 

[Gobbledigook]

Brutes have the higher health and resistances cap, so you could take advantage of them. Solo you will be tough enough, but in a team those buffs will work well with the Brutes increased caps.

 

Invulnerability will give you good defense and resists and let you reach the health cap. It also gives +to hit so you can pick any primary you like.

Stone is also good for defense/resists/health and gives some +recharge and a proc. Endurance heavy though.

Bio if you want to focus more on damage, works well with a Brute.

 

Pick a primary attack set you like as that will be what you are using most of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aethereal]

I second Savage: fury buffing the bleed damage closes some of the damage deficit that Brutes have compared to Scrappers, and helps them pull away further from tanks.

[Kaelit]

Ston's 2023 list.

[Yomo Kimyata]

For me, part of the enjoyment of playing a brute is the psychological aspect of "Gotta hurry up, build that fury, keep going, keep going!!!" which really isn't true at all anymore (if it ever was), so I'll tend towards power sets that constantly keep moving offensively (either through consistent attack chains or through busy animation) and that keep you upright and full of green and blue defensively.

 

People say that resistance-based sets are better on brutes than scrappers, but that's only true if you are moving about the 75% barrier.

 

Offensive sets I would play on a brute (I'm not saying they are best on a brute, but I'd be willing to play them.  I've also got lvl 50 brutes with other primaries than this, but I no longer particularly enjoy playing them as a brute rather than as a scrapper):

 

Claws

Dark Melee

Electrical Melee

Energy Melee (maybe)

Ice Melee

Radiation Melee

Savage Melee

Spines

Staff Fighting

Super Strength

 

Defensive sets I would play on a brute (I'm not saying they are best on a brute, but I'd be willing to play them.  I've also got lvl 50 brutes with other secondaries than this, but I no longer particularly enjoy playing them as a brute rather than as a scrapper):

 

Bio Armor

Dark Armor

Electric Armor

Fiery Aura

Radiation Armor

Regeneration

Stone Armor

 

[Snarky]

I find Dark Dark to be better on a Brute than a Tank.  Dark can achieve nearly the same survivability and knock the same hard caps (100 res to avoid debuff of res) it is just harder to get there.  Dark Armor has a stealth component, non suppressed, which i think works against the Tank mission and enhances the Brute playstyle.  Due to most of Dark Melee being a hard hitting ST set it does not benefit from Tank increased AoE.  Shadow Mail has always been situational, even with tanker aoe it is a long animation DoT best used for trash mobs.  

[SeraphimKensai]

Some interesting points in this thread.

 

From my own POV:

• Regen is absolutely better on a Brute than a Scrapper. A Brute has higher HP cap than a Scrapper. So it's Regen ticks are for substantially more. You also get a taunt aura (sadly it's linked to your mez protection, so it can have fun effects if you're trying to stealth through a mission).
• Any of the resistance based sets will get more bang for buck than a Scrapper, given the 90% res cap that Brutes share with Tankers (Tankers get their res easier, but Brutes can get there).
• More subjective now, fast animating attack sets seem more fun on a Brute than a Tanker, especially Savage/Claws. That said Claws works really well on a Scrapper too. This mindset might likely be a holdover from the days of Fury 1.0.

Combo sets I like on a Brute:

• Claws/EA
• Savage/Regen
• SS/Rad (this also works really well on Tankers).

[Without_Pause]

I prefer Claws on a Scrapper although yes, it works more than fine on a Brute. The #1 issue for Claws is how heavily resisted it is. Scrappers get Crits, I would lean on the idea that they take Musculature more often than Brutes, and Spin recharges in 9.2 seconds for Scrappers versus 14 for Brutes/Tankers. 

[Erratic1]

31 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I prefer Claws on a Scrapper although yes, it works more than fine on a Brute. The #1 issue for Claws is how heavily resisted it is. Scrappers get Crits, I would lean on the idea that they take Musculature more often than Brutes, and Spin recharges in 9.2 seconds for Scrappers versus 14 for Brutes/Tankers. 

 

Per City of Data, Brute Spin hits for 78.8276, Scrapper Spin hits for 98.8472. Factor in recharge and you're looking at 5.63 dps vs 10.74 dps. The scrapper will slot to enhance damage to the ED cap and be near double his base at 21.48 dps. To match that the Brute needs to multiply his damage by 3.8 times. Base damage gets him 1, shooting gets him 1, leaving 1.8 for Fury. I typically consider Brutes to be working a bit below that at 1.7, so the gap is not that big.

 

Yes, the Scrapper has crits, but that is true for every offensive set. So I am not sure the Brute is being crushed in the area damage department as much as 14s vs 9.2s suggests.

 

It may be, at least at times, too reductive to look at individual sets in isolation. Two of the defensive sets with damage auras are resistance sets--which everyone agrees work better on Brutes. One is hybrid (Bio), and so while better than a pure resistance set for Scrappers still favors Brutes. One is defense based (Ice). Claws/Electric probably is better on a Brute than a Scrapper and would have some pluses compared to Claws/<non-damage aura> on a Scrapper. Claws/Ice...yeah, play a Scrapper or Tanker.

[Without_Pause]

22 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

Claws/Electric probably is better on a Brute than a Scrapper

That's due to Elec versus Claws though. I have Claws/ea at 50 for a Scrapper and a Brute. Claws is absolutely better on the Scrapper even if the Brute is more survivable. 

[Erratic1]

9 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

That's due to Elec versus Claws though. I have Claws/ea at 50 for a Scrapper and a Brute. Claws is absolutely better on the Scrapper even if the Brute is more survivable. 

 

That was the point: You cannot look at Claws (or any set) in isolaton. The secondary matters and the combination must be considered as opposed to just the pieces of it.

 

[Snarky]

please stop pointing out brutes are not so bad off.

 

you know they are itching to nerf hammer the AT for the 7th? time.....

[Spaghetti Betty]

Regen, for sure! It goes from being a middling to underperforming set on a Scrapper, to feeling like godmode on a Brute.

 

Trust me, I would know!

Edited October 1 by Spaghetti Betty

[Snarky]

9 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Regen, for sure! It goes from being a middling to underperforming set on a Scrapper, to feeling like godmode on a Brute.

 

Trust me, I would know!

this is how Regen keeps getting nerfed...

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

this is how Regen keeps getting nerfed...

Maybe they should nerf Brutes so that Regen isn't an outlier for them!

[Sovera]

One of my best characters back when I timed things was a old timer Claws/Fire. It beat all my stable in Yin completions (which was my Trapdoor) at under 40 minutes to solo without skipping. But something a *lot* easier and cozy was the Rad/Stone Armor since Fury and all those DoTs minced things. As I recall it was a close second but much less worrying about HP since Stone Armor is so solid after the rework which made Granite no longer obligatory.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 9/24/2024 at 5:54 PM, Icono04 said:

If you have ever told someone "hey, if you only play [insert name of powerset here] once in your lifetime, you should play it on a brute, they get the best version of it" - what powerset(s) was that?

 

Savage. No contest.

 

I'd opt for Bio or Stone Armors to maximize protected firepower.

 

Not sure there is a secondary I would say is better on a Brute vs. a Tanker. Usually they end up being Regen or EA because I can, or Bio because it's so powerful regardless of AT.

 

-----

 

I like Regen on Brutes best too, but I think it's equally as good on Scrappers if you pick up Shadow Meld. Between Shadow meld and MoG, you've got a lot of on-demand capped Defense available. That availablilty balances with the Scrapper's lower HP cap and resulting passive gross HP per tick.

 

 

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

One of my best characters back when I timed things was a old timer Claws/Fire. It beat all my stable in Yin completions (which was my Trapdoor) at under 40 minutes to solo without skipping. But something a *lot* easier and cozy was the Rad/Stone Armor since Fury and all those DoTs minced things. As I recall it was a close second but much less worrying about HP since Stone Armor is so solid after the rework which made Granite no longer obligatory.

 

Given the area increase on Tankers, why is Claws/Fire not better on a Tanker (before we consider greater survivability on the Tanker achieved sooner and far easier)?

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Given the area increase on Tankers, why is Claws/Fire not better on a Tanker (before we consider greater survivability on the Tanker achieved sooner and far easier)?

 

Probably because Brutes do more damage than Tankers. As I've said in the past the extra AoE range only matters when there are so many bodies that they cannot physically be close enough to be hit. In regular gameplay this is not the case as the minions are the first to go.

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Probably because Brutes do more damage than Tankers.

 

Depends on how they are doing damage. With greater area and greater survivability, the arena where Brute does more damage is confined to single target. And yet the primary draw of any Fire Aura build is area damage, particularly when damage boosted via Claws/Follow Up. I do not believe it is controversial in the least that Tanker deal more area damage nor is it controversial that damage boost are less immediately meaningful to Brutes than any other AT. 

 

If I am reading City of Data correctly, Tanker Burn deals 110.3 base damage whereas Brute Burn deals 87.08 base damage (Mid's gives other numbers but the Tanker is likewise ahead). The Tanker never has to ramp of Fury and has less downtime to recover from combat regardless since their defense values are inherently better. Damage is more than just raw numbers but a matter of how frequently you can deliver it and Tankers have Brute beat in that department, IOs or not.

 

I have been running an increasing number of Tankers, and I up the difficulty on missions far sooner on Tankers because it becomes so easy to herd things up and take them down. And if I have to spend a little more time on a Tanker working on a boss, well, I spent a whole heck of a lot less time taking the trash down and at far less risk.

 

So let's not just simply toss out the line, "Brutes do more damage"--it simply is not true. I have run Tankers solo while levelling and it is not only not a slog like in the old days...it is in fact pretty darned zippy.

 

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

As I've said in the past the extra AoE range only matters when there are so many bodies that they cannot physically be close enough to be hit. In regular gameplay this is not the case as the minions are the first to go.

 

The number of bodies around on an AT that oozes taunt is limited only by the caps the designers have put in.

 

Edited October 2 by Erratic1