How do you feel about 'lone wolfing'?

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

Who chained you to the floor?  If "most of the team" leaves, then leave with them.  You're not the maid.   If it's a defeat-all and the DPS squirrels are leaving stuff behind, say so.  If that has no effect then the team will get to deal with it five floors down when the little blue button fails to pop up.  Then you can tell them you told them so (this is where I'd add "you assholes" for flavoring) and then teleport your own ass out of that team. 

Operative word: TEAM.
???????

[mechahamham]

5 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

If it's obvious the group can split, I'll ask if anyone minds if we divide and conquer (especially on a Citadel). If everyone's ok with it, off I go. If not, I stay with the group. 

 

This is the way to go about it. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

 

I try to avoid speed-anything simply because it doesn't feel like I've earned anything on those TFs and this is usually when teams split up to not be blasting dead enemies. However, if you're a) not griefing the team by not being there to soak up agro and b) not skipping objectives (lookin' at you here, Yin TF-speeders), it really doesn't make a big difference.

 

A lot of folks who do 'skip ahead' do so by doing things like pretending that Freaks don't self-rez or Clockwork Princes don't summon Gears. Usually this is not a huge problem, but it can become one in short order if things start going wrong, say a Super Stunner manages to detoggle someone. The latter can escalate into a team wipe if it's, say, a controller, defender, or corrupter that gets detoggled and they were quietly carrying the rest of the team.

 

(As a career Blaster, thank you for your buffs and service!)

 

It's worth mentioning that there are a lot of maps and individual rooms that are *designed* to split the group. Council Caves are their own special level of hell, but regular purple/brown caves do this as well, especially with the over/under room and the layer cake room.  If you see your team can't hack being split up on those hazards, maybe don't run off?

[lemming]

27 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Heh. View from the other side:  I used to give one warning when I played emps/thermals/pain more. "If you run off, I'm not chasing you."  Someone blames me because they died and they're the *only* little red arrow on the other side of the map? "Not my fault, I can't heal through walls, should've stayed with the team."

The proper response.

[lemming]

23 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Remind me, gang: is there a distance point where a teammate closer to the door might not get XP from the kills of the path makers?  If so, that's a problem to consider before dashing off.  So is the end room scenario.  I've seen and been on teams that speed and stealth zip past the cave goons in order to lay waste to Jurrasik, leaving behind those teammates who do not have a chance of slipping past, and no effort at teleport is made.  That's selfish, especially if not communicated.

Not in missions.  Open world, yes.    It's one reason the Instanced MSR is a bit nicer in that everyone shares the rewards.  (Not sure if teams still get prorated or not)

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, CFIndustries said:

I do it all the time (just skip the stragglers if the bulk of the team has moved on), but there's aways that lowbie controller on a 50+ team who stays behind and hopelessly tries to take the boss the leader (or tank) left behind because the leader wasn't paying attention.

 

Part of the fun in PuGs, for me at least, is trying to adjust to each new team I'm on.   I tend to play a lot of Tankers so while I am mainly focused on controlling enemy aggro, I've got one eye on the team status.  If someone is low health, there's a problem.  Time to adjust.  If things are fine however, my goal is keeping things rolling, so I absolutely will leave fights early to go piss off the next group before Stoney McStoneycages the Controller can get there with his 30ft radius immobilize, or what I like to refer to as, "His suicide button".

 

Some stuff does annoy me though in the stragglers dept.  Paragon Protectors who have punched their "you can't kill me" buttons.  For the love of all that is unholy folks... LEAVE THEM!  Half the team standing around whiffing isn't helping.  Same goes for Freak rezzers.  If it's not a Super Stunner, its rez is on a short delay.  But not so short I'm willing to stare at the ground to be sure nobody is standing up again.  I'm gone.   If someone gets up, do not say in team chat, "Tank rezzed!"   Just let him follow you.  Drag him past me if he's on you.  If we're up to an elevator or something, I'll wait.  Otherwise, bring em along to the next party.

[Britannic]

It got a little easier once I acquired the Sommerswerd.

[Indystruck]

11 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Mindlessly "zerg'ing" is generally "bad".

If you commit to attending a date/event, PARTICIPATE when you commit.
Half-assing is a waste of everyone's time.
Oh no!  Participating in a social even with ABSOLUTE MINIMUM INVESTMENT in being "sociable"?

*Spits*

 

sir this is a wendy's

[UltraAlt]

16 hours ago, Story Archer said:

Would this sort of behavior bother anyone, and if so, why?

 

Yes.

If you are on a team, play like you are on a team.

Stay with your teammates and help them.

 

And, if you are way above the level of the content, perhaps make another character to play the content at level instead of bringing in a 50 to disrupt people trying to play characters on level with the that content.

You have plenty of slots to make alts.

 

I know personally, I don't like it when someone brings in a 50 to game (versus end-game) content and they steamroll everything.

It ruins the challenge and the fun for me.

 

16 hours ago, Story Archer said:

If, under the circumstances described above, I was asked not to do it, I wouldn't, but then I'd probably move on after the mish to find a bigger challenge unless I was chasing a badge or something.

 

Great. I hope that if it annoys the people on the team that you are teaming with tell you so.

 

... but then again, why aren't you looking for that bigger challenge to begin with?

 

As indicated, you can make another character to run game content.

 

If you wanted to get a badge for something, why didn't you do it while you were leveling up your character?

Many people these days - or so it seems - simply get power-leveled to 50 without playing any of the game ... I don't count AE or joining level-50 radio missions teams to get to 50 as playing the game (it is bypassing playing the game).

[Kaika]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Yes.

If you are on a team, play like you are on a team.

Stay with your teammates and help them.

 

And, if you are way above the level of the content, perhaps make another character to play the content at level instead of bringing in a 50 to disrupt people trying to play characters on level with the that content.

You have plenty of slots to make alts.

 

I know personally, I don't like it when someone brings in a 50 to game (versus end-game) content and they steamroll everything.

It ruins the challenge and the fun for me.

 

 

Great. I hope that if it annoys the people on the team that you are teaming with tell you so.

 

... but then again, why aren't you looking for that bigger challenge to begin with?

 

As indicated, you can make another character to run game content.

 

If you wanted to get a badge for something, why didn't you do it while you were leveling up your character?

Many people these days - or so it seems - simply get power-leveled to 50 without playing any of the game ... I don't count AE or joining level-50 radio missions teams to get to 50 as playing the game (it is bypassing playing the game).

As someone who as played this game since 2004 and leveled "The correct way" to 50 many times, I'm of the impression that any way someone has fun playing this game is "correct" as long as it doesn't break the ToS. Be that level 1-50 with no outside help, no double XP, no teaming with 50, no outside money and the character is dead to you the moment the XP bar ticks over 50, uphill both ways, or immediately having another player power level you to 50 so you can get to "good stuff" immediately and spending 600 million tricking out a character only to go and steam roll over a posi 1. Regardless of what play-style you enjoy BOTH are just as valid ways to play the game. CoH is a massive sand box that you share with several thousand people and all of them are entitled to their own experience.

 

Personally, if you couldn't tell from my post, these days I prefer to play my characters at 50 for the most part. I normally still level the old fashion way, but I very much enjoy the process of creating and making builds that are powerful throughout the whole game. Does this make the game easier, YES of course is does I'm playing this game as a super hero power fantasy, thats the point, I want the fantasy of being a super hero. To get back on topic one of the reasons I tend to split off from a group is so that I DON'T end up doing everything for them if I realize there is a large power discrepancy. If you have been reading this tread at all, a common thread is to communicate with your teammates. My point is, if you find high level players are ruining your fun, then say something or start your own team, lead your own group and cap it at 49, THAT'S FINE thats a valid way to play, but don't demonize a entire group of players simply approaching the game in a diffren't way then you, one they enjoy.

Edited October 8 by Kaika

[Ukase]

"Lone Wolfing"...ultimately, how I feel about it would depend on my mood at the time. Sometimes, I'm perfectly fine with whatever happens in a mission. And sometimes, I want to reach through and smack people. 

To me, when I'm on someone else's pug, and I see most of us follow the team lead, and I see a brute or scrapper or whatever go their own way, I ask myself...what is it they seek to accomplish? Now, this is an important question. Generally, when the team is all together except that one person who went East instead of West with the rest of us, it's a kill all or kill most. Otherwise, myself and everyone else would just be zipping to the back of the map to kill the boss and move on to the next mission. 

Teams tend to have synergy. The player by themselves, they're probably having their own fun, and thinking that they are capable. Or, they could be wondering why everyone went the other way instead of following them. Hard to say when folks don't communicate. But, when you have buffs, debuffs, aggro management and dps all in the same area, the killing goes faster. It just does. That's how the synergy of mobs being debuffed, and players being buffed works out. 

The player by themselves - they might think they're saving time - and if it's a speedy effort, then it might be saving time. Hard to say, really. But if it's a kill most, kill through - they're likely not. They can type whatever they want, but they're not saving time. If they were with the team, the mobs would fall that much faster. Now, I suppose there is such a thing as "overkill", where the case might be made to have the team break off. Really tough to say, because who is standing there with a spreadsheet and a stop watch and analyzing the hitpoints for each npc, the damage dealt and calculating the amount of overkill? Not me. And not you, either. If you say you are, good luck convincing me, because I won't call you a liar, but I will think it. 
You might guess there's overkill, and you might be right. Ultimately, the answer just isn't that important. 

 

The goal for me is typically the reward merits and/or the badge. I don't care about XP. I don't care about INF. At least, not usually. I'm the one who, as a level 12 in patron mission, will stealth to Dr. Q and get the stupid mission over with; even my lowbies could not give two spits about XP. It will come. No need to sweat it. 

So, lonewolfing to me is good or bad, situationally. On a speedy run, go for it. On a kill most/kill through, I think you're just showboating, OR and this can be true often in kill most/kill through teams, you're a super good player, and your team is overly cautious with that stupid trinity tendency where the tank wants to be buffed before heading into each mob. But, as a slightly better than mediocre player, I'm going to recognize this and probably help you out. I have no patience for a tank that wants buffs before heading into battle - unless it's like an advanced mode TF or something. 


 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'm never in favour of a lone wolf in general play.

 

There are very few times it's acceptable - such as hunting for a lost stray or treasure, or occasionally holding up an ambush.

 

But if a player has such good capabilities to defeat mobs on their own, it seems more efficient to help the team defeat the mobs more swiftly - thus everyone benefits. Lone Wolves can often get too far ahead and then those weaker/less efficient players run the risk of being overwhelmed.

 

But there's also the issue for those with lower capabilities being left out so ruining their sense of game play and leaving them feeling "why bother?" - which ultimately harms the game and player base.

 

TL/DR: If you're good enough to solo, solo. If you want to team, team.

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

And, if you are way above the level of the content, perhaps make another character to play the content at level instead of bringing in a 50 to disrupt people trying to play characters on level with the that content.

You have plenty of slots to make alts.

 

I know personally, I don't like it when someone brings in a 50 to game (versus end-game) content and they steamroll everything.

It ruins the challenge and the fun for me.

So don't bring my Level 50 to a lower TF so I can get the TF Commander badge? So don't try to make my build as good as possible since having any sort of uber toon ruins it for you? If you are doing end game content, bringing a Level 50 is to be expected. 

[Andreah]

As a team activity, the group together is more than the sum of its individual parts.  I don't like lone-wolves on the teams I run. I usually ask them to return, or teleport them back. If they still insist on lone-wolfing, I'll at least one-star them and might kick them if it's obvious they're really trying to solo.

 

It's not the worst of the behaviors I see, but it's bad enough I won't put up with it for long.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

I think if you're pulling stuff the rest of the team isn't, you better make sure you can keep aggro on them, and that the team can handle you being MIA from their fights.

 

58 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

So don't try to make my build as good as possible since having any sort of uber toon ruins it for you?

Pretty much.  We have loadout slots for a reason.  Also, getting ALL THE POWER is wildly overrated.  A victory without risk isn't.

[Without_Pause]

2 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Pretty much.  We have loadout slots for a reason.  Also, getting ALL THE POWER is wildly overrated.  A victory without risk isn't.

Min/maxing then soloing a character is practically the only reason I'm here. It actually makes the game difficult. Doing +3/x8 RWZ arcs by myself has been more fun than pretty much any TF I have done since Live. And really, considering the sheer number of TFs which are run at +0, there's very low risk of team wipes let alone dying. 

[cranebump]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

TL/DR: If you're good enough to solo, solo. If you want to team, team.

What? I can't solo on a team?:-)

 

(agreed, btw).:-)

[tidge]

17 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Heh. View from the other side:  I used to give one warning when I played emps/thermals/pain more. "If you run off, I'm not chasing you."  Someone blames me because they died and they're the *only* little red arrow on the other side of the map? "Not my fault, I can't heal through walls, should've stayed with the team."

 

Double-heh: I see this quite a bit on lower-level content teams (even with exemplars). Often a character will get one-or-more buffs while with the main group and decide that they are now gawd-mode and rush off to get to the "final room" only to find that the buff as worn off. They then become a spot on the floor that requires buffing!

[PhotriusPyrelus]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

Min/maxing then soloing a character is practically the only reason I'm here.

So why are you in a discussion about teams when you don't do them?

[Skyhawke]

Anyone else read the phrase "lone wolfing" so many times now that it's started to sound dirty? 

[Andreah]

24 minutes ago, Skyhawke said:

Anyone else read the phrase "lone wolfing" so many times now that it's started to sound dirty? 

We could just call it scrapper-locking. Even on non-scrappers.

[lemming]

21 minutes ago, Andreah said:

We could just call it scrapper-locking. Even on non-scrappers.

That's how I refer to it whatever the AT

[Without_Pause]

35 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

So why are you in a discussion about teams when you don't do them?

Because I essentially do them for TFs, and I see lone wolfs on them a lot. It wasn't even a thing for me until I saw others doing it. I would play a melee and kept having teammates interfere with what I was doing, see Fold Space, and it just felt better to take on mobs by myself. Note, I default to sticking to the team. I'm not going out on my own if I think the rest of the team can't handle it.

 

Let's say you're on a Citadel. There's one support character. I can try to do my thing with the group offering a fraction of my damage against a mob, or I can go off knowing I'm not missing out really on support and have all of my damage count against a mob. Trust me, many people lone wolf Citadel, and yes, the argument can be made it is faster that way for defeat-alls. Speed runs are practically built on lone wolfs. 

 

P.S. I'm more likely to play squishies on a team, but I've soloed numerous of them just to see where the build is at. Some I solo a bunch. I team my Ill/dark about as much as I do my other solo friendly builds. My Fire/time Controller has no problem soloing with a more variable diff setting, I can't remember what I was doing for my TA/ice Defender. I can't recall if my Ill/dark is +2 or +3 with x8. Telling me my Ill/dark can't go lone wolf on a team which is fine without me is all sorts of "Oh bless you're heart."

[Seed22]

On 10/7/2024 at 12:10 PM, Neiska said:

I have bigger issues with stalkers who just sneak to the glowy, click and dip out as soon as possible without helping kill things.

Would you believe me if I told you thats one of the highlights of the AT and what they did before stalker buffs?

 

Thats kind of like me getting mad at the fender for buffing me. Seems a lil weird

[Seed22]

Im going to be honest, and this will be mean but I truly do not care.

 

I’ve said this years ago when this came up. A lot of people who demand everyone stick together are the people being hard carried in the team anyway. 
 

Unless there’s a reason to stick together(Mo runs kind of, HM 4’s, iTrials. Thats it), split off and go ham. 
 

The usual lazy responses of “you should just play solo” irritate me. It’s like if I were to turn around to those people and say, “and you should of made an actually good build so you could contribute meaningful DPS instead of being a carry in what is arguably the easiest content in gaming history. All the while masking this as “playing with the team”.”

 

Neither is helpful.

Edited October 8 by Seed22

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

As someone who as played this game since 2004 and leveled "The correct way" to 50 many times, I'm of the impression that any way someone has fun playing this game is "correct" as long as it doesn't break the ToS. Be that level 1-50 with no outside help, no double XP, no teaming with 50, no outside money and the character is dead to you the moment the XP bar ticks over 50, uphill both ways, or immediately having another player power level you to 50 so you can get to "good stuff" immediately and spending 600 million tricking out a character only to go and steam roll over a posi 1. 

 

First, I started playing in 2004 as well. So you have no seniority over me as far as game play.

 

You are overly defensive toward power-leveling (replying to my comment about power-leveling through AE-farm door sitting and joining level-50 radio mission teams) by extrapolating my comment into a bunch of other instances that I did not state.

 

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

Regardless of what play-style you enjoy BOTH are just as valid ways to play the game. CoH is a massive sand box that you share with several thousand people and all of them are entitled to their own experience.

 

Sure. There is nothing in the CoC says that say you can't ruin other players game experience by doing what you are stating.

I don't think that you care about what other players think if you think that behaving in that manner to teammates on a team of characters that are leveling is your right regardless of what the rest of the group thinks.

 

If you are on my team doing that, you are going to get warned and then you are going to get the boot.

... and, guess what, that isn't against the CoC either.

 

Also, if I'm not having fun on a team - for example if there is someone on a team that is doing what you are suggesting that someone would like to do for "fun" - then I would most likely leave the team as politely as I could at the soonest opportunity. 

If other people on the team complained about a character doing what you are suggest, then I would also complain to the team leader about it. And, if there were enough complaints, I would hope that the team lead woud boot that character from the team.

If a teammate complained and I backed them up, and the team lead came back with ... say "Oh, he's a friend of mine. It's fine", then I would most likely immediately leave the team.

 

Other players are free to behave as they like as long as they aren't breaking the CoC.

Outside of that, we can state what we as players feel to be respectable conduct. You have expressed yours. I have expressed mine.

It doesn't appear that either of us will change our minds on our stances.

 

The game provides us with tools to use against players that we find to have issues that we would rather not game with/deal with during our gaming time when we are trying to have "fun".

For example, if I feel someone is behaving in a way that I have to boot them from a team, I may very well put them on ignore so that I can't see them sending tells to try to join teams that I'm recruiting for (at least until they spill out the otherside of the very short - in my opinion - ignore list).

The same could go for someone that is "steamrolling" content instead of playing as part of a team.

 

I'm sure there are those that don't care. I do. Other players to.

I think it is important in life to be respectful of other people.

I don't think it is respectful to join a team and then not play as part of the team because you would rather solo because being a teammate is boring.

That is how I see it.

 

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

Personally, if you couldn't tell from my post, these days I prefer to play my characters at 50 for the most part.

 

Good for you. You have found what you like.

I have found that I do not like the end-game, but not simply because of the behavior/mind-set of L337 end-gamers.

 

I have 3 50's here. Last 50 dinged probably well over a year ago, but I don't keep track.

I am not going to get another 50. I'm level-locking/turning off XP at 49 if a character gets that far.

Most of the time, I level-lock.turn off XP at the level of power that I feel is rational to that character's conception and/or to avoid leveling past content that I want them to play before continuing to level or to have them available to play content at or around that level.

 

So there you go. We are looking at this from two different angles/viewpoints.

 

Of course, you support level 50's joining lower level content, not playing as part of the team, and steamrolling lower-level content because apparently you are that kind of gamer.

It is what you do. It is how you play. Therefore you support it.

 

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

To get back on topic one of the reasons I tend to split off from a group is so that I DON'T end up doing everything for them if I realize there is a large power discrepancy.

 

makes no sense.

 

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

If you have been reading this tread at all, a common thread is to communicate with your teammates.

 

If you had been paying attention this thread, I thumbs down one of  your posts because I read it while reading other posts on this thread.

 

And, my reply was to the OP and what they are asking and not ot other people's posts.

At least come of the posts on communication I gave the thumbs up or thanks ... but ... if I remember correctly ... some of them might have said things that I disagreed with so I either didn't react to it or reacted to it negatively.

 

Yes. Communication is important if a teammate is acting in a way that someone on the team disagrees with for one reason or another.

That can be through /team channel or by /t to the team lead so that they can deal with the situation as they see fit.

 

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

My point is, if you find high level players are ruining your fun, then say something or start your own team, lead your own group and cap it at 49, THAT'S FINE thats a valid way to play,

 

lol.

I already do that.

Maybe you should pay more attention. Like maybe check my post count.

 

12 hours ago, Kaika said:

but don't demonize a entire group of players simply approaching the game in a diffren't way then you, one they enjoy.

 

I'm not "demonizing" anyone.

You are being overly defensive because you support the kind of behavior that I find disrespectful.

I guess I hit a nerve - which was kind of the point.

 

Other people don't like the kind of behavior that is being discussed.

Just because people that like to play that way support it, doesn't mean that the 7 other players on the team appreciate that behavior.

 

Players that "lone wolf" - run off and do their own thing while they are on a team - should know that other players are on a team are on a team to be playing as a team and they aren't door sitters there to increase the mob-size for the level 50 that wants to steamroll the content.

 

In general, if you are on at team. It is respectful to stay with the team and not run off and do your own thing.

 

If you are level 50 and you can steam roll the content, maybe that player should be the one to ask the team lead in /team for them to steamroll the content so that not only the team lead, but all they team can decide on how they want to "enjoy" their game time. That way that team lead can make it clear to the team from the start that they expect.

So yeah. The 50 can communicate as well.

... and maybe if you are a level 50 on a team and you are bored with the content, you can quit and find something else to do that isn't boring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8 by UltraAlt