Luck of the Gambler

[desarix]

I see so many builds with 5 Luck of the Gambler for the recharge. This makes it 37.5% recharge which seems essential. Everyone plays like this I guess but it depresses me to see every build I check having this as a standard. No point in this thread except to see  if you all play like this too or this is your ideal build.

[Apogee]

It depends on the AT and build, but most of mine have between 2-5 LotG in them. It's the same reason most builds use Hasten.

[desarix]

Yeah on Live hasten was a must  3 slotted I think it was. I know the meta and playing the optimal way requires this. You're right too about the type of powers being instrumental on this too. I'll rummage around the builds and see where this is different.

[Marine X]

The recharge is a big part of it's popularity, but the set bonuses provide some pretty good Bang for your Buck considering it's moderate cost.

 

Two enhancements improves your Regeneration by 10%.

Three enhancements increases maximum Health by 1.125%.

Four enhancements improves the Accuracy of all your powers by 9%.

Five enhancements increases Smashing and Lethal Resistance by 3.75%, reduces the duration of Immobilize effects on you by 6.25%, reduces the duration of Hold effects on you       by 6.25%, reduces the duration of Stun effects on you by 6.25%, reduces the duration of Sleep effects on you by 6.25%, reduces the duration of Fear effects on you by 6.25%,   and reduces the duration of Confuse effects on you by 6.25%.

Six enhancements increases Toxic and Psionic Resistance by 4.5%, reduces the duration of Immobilize effects on you by 7.5%, reduces the duration of Hold effects on you by 7.5%.,   reduces the duration of Stun effects on you by 7.5%, reduces the duration of Sleep effects on you by 7.5%, reduces the duration of Fear effects on you by 7.5%, and reduces the duration   of Confuse effects on you by 7.5%.

 

I use a lot of Sciroccos' Dervish for the same reason. At between 1 and 2 million an enhancement it gives some great bonuses.

 

Two enhancements improves your Regeneration by 10%.

Three enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Resistance by 2.25%.

 Three enhancements reduces the duration of Immobilize effects on you by 3.75%, reduces the duration of Hold effects on you by 3.75%, reduces the duration   of Stun effects on you   by 3.75%, reduces the duration of Sleep effects on you by 3.75%, reduces the duration of Fear effects on you by 3.75%, and reduces the   duration of Confuse effects on you by 3.75%.

Four enhancements improves the Accuracy of all your powers by 9%.

Five enhancements increases Area Effect Defense by 3.125%, and increases Fire and Cold Defense by 1.5625%.

Six enhancements increases Psionic Defense by 3.125

Edited Monday at 08:43 AM by Marine X

[MoonSheep]

i have 1 in my kin defender, think my poison def has 1 or 2

 

it can be nice but it’s not crucial. build for the set bonuses that are important to you, the icons you like the look of etc

 

set bonuses contribute 20% to the ability and performance of an alt, the player behind the keyboard contributes the other 80%

[Sovera]

Why would you let it depress you? Don't copy those builds, is all.

[arcane]

They are good but not mandatory. My Rad/ Tank only has one in his build and yet I’m confident that no soft-cap building 5x LotG pug is going to make me feel bad about it. 

[tidge]

After I've spent almost all my slots enhancing the values of powers from my Primary, Secondary, and any critical pool powers (for my playstyle), I typically don't have any slots to dedicate to several powers. As a result, I almost always look for 'pool powers' that can hold a single enhancement piece and offer me some sort of 'global' benefit. The Luck of the Gambler +Recharge (which scales down to level 22, if attuned) is a very useful piece, but is isn't the only one.... but the other straightforward options for one-slot-wonders include things like KB protection (travel powers, defense powers, resistance powers), global defense boosts (resistance powers), scaling damage resistance (defense powers), global resistance (defense powers), etc. If you look at enough builds, you'll see those also used... so this may not help any feelings of iconoclastic depression.

 

Once one of my builds has more than one power with a recharge time base of 2min+, you had better believe that more global recharge is valuable to me!

[Kaika]

ALL of my builds use LoTG, it's simply one of the best enhancements in the game, really should have been unique like the unbreakable guard Max HP proc, but it was one of the first IOs so hind sight is 20/20. Unfortunately it's too ingrained to change at this point as it would practically require most high end builds respec, or if they grandfathered it in, suddenly you can't respec the character without losing it so it's here to stay. Honestly as someone who plays every toon with perma haste, I actually wouldn't be all too sad to see it go, it would make reaching that harder for sure, but it would not inflate the value of +Def powers more then they already are with+def as strong as it is. In the grand scheme of things though, it's not that big deal, Def as a stat is insanely strong on practically all builds and even without multiple LoTG def has some very good sets and procs. This is just how a complex gearing system usually works, the best stuff gets used the most, if something is universally useful everyone will use it. Not every build has 5 of them though, not every build will have enough powers to fit 5 of them and there are other procs that can be more useful but are single use like sheild wall, reactive defenses or Kismet

 

For the record it's not even just LoTG btw, quite a few procs are practically universal in builds: 

Performance shifter +end 

Panacea end/HP

Steadfast protection and gladiators armor 3% def

 

 

In just about any high end build these are practically a guarantee just due to the usefulness they offer for only one slot,. You don't HAVE to use these btw, you can make a perfectly functional and even good build without utilizing any of these enhancements, it's just it's alot easier to do with them.

Edited Monday at 02:40 PM by Kaika
I am bad at words

[Uun]

I rarely slot 5 LOTG +rech. Typically I slot 2-3, even on dominators and Illusion controllers. I don't like adding unneeded powers as mules and I manage to get the global recharge I need from other sources. I also happen to like the set bonuses from Shield Wall and Reactive Defenses. The builds that get 5 LOTGs are those with defense armors that have a lot of powers to put them in.

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Kaika said:

For the record it's not even just LoTG btw, quite a few procs are practically universal in builds: 

Performance shifter +end 

Panacea end/HP

Steadfast protection and gladiators armor 3% def

I hardly ever slot the Perf Shifter Proc. Panacea and (usually) Miracle in health, sure... but Stamina's Base slot is almost always a 50+5 EndMod and the second slot is typically a Power Transfer Proc. The only time Performance Shifter gets used is if Stamina ends up 3 or 4-slotted. It's just too unreliable + spikey.

As for LoTG +7.5%s? Typically any of my powers that I'm already taking which accepts Defense IO sets will get one. But I very rarely go out of my way to take specific additional powers just to slot extra LoTGs.

[Heatstroke]

Build your character however you want. Ive used 5 LOTG many times depending on the character. Obviously for some build especially those built with long recharge powers, the more recharge you have the better. But not every character needs that. It often depends on build and what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Unfortunately a lot of people dont learn HOW to build their own characters. They just copy what others do.

[The Trouble]

I remember when Fitness was considered a must-pick for your pools (thankfully this is now inherent).

Hasten was also once considered a must.

I think the phase we're currently in is "Soft-cap Defenses".  I'm guilty of this one... but it's so much fun! 

 

It's a premium proc because it enhances almost every power you can activate.  Its presence makes perfect sense for most builds.  The problems start when a powerset's utility is compromised just to plop in one more LotG.  It sounds like you can spot the difference, so try not to let it bother you.

 

Flavors of the month don't automatically make a recipe worse in the same way they don't automatically make a dish better.

[GM Crumpet]

People have their must picks that others think are optional. Personally unless I'm aiming for something that's up all the time with minimal cool down like Phantom Army or Light form I generally don't bother with stuff like LotG or hasten. My must have is three slot my travel power and pop Blessing of the Zephyr in there. Caps the travel powers distance/speed and gives knockback resistance. Buy it attuned at level 7 when it becomes available then never think of it again.

 

The fact is, we are a lot cheaper than live so can reach maximum potential. Live was so expensive that slotting some enhancements or sets was only a dream. Farming for massive amounts of inf wasn't something too many people knew about, and having multiple accounts was expensive for a lot of us. Now it's a matter of making a new email address and creating a game account. In those days it was a regular added cost every month.

[Zect]

Lotg on its own is powerful, but where it gets ridiculous is 1) it being in a defense set, and 2) also buffing defense itself (it has the same amount of def enhancement as a D/E or D/R piece).

 

This means that e.g. on a fender, CJ or hover with an lotg +rech in it is +2.9% def to all and +7.5% rech. Now consider that +3.1% def and +7.5% rech are typically 4-6 piece bonuses, count how many slots worth of set bonuses one is getting from a single power with no slot investment. This level of slot-efficiency is unprecedented outside of unique pieces.

 

The question is then why, given the obvious balance implications, lotg was designed this way. Since there is a wide variety of pool powers that give +def, realistically any toon can get 5x lotgs; defense sets are the one class that every AT has easy access to. This avoids the much more serious balance problem of some powersets/AT's being able to cap out on lotgs while others cannot.

 

Being able to get 5x lotgs in turn is important because the IO system was intended to allow for permahasten, responding to player uproar over ED. If you look at dev communication from that era, being able to get 5 lotg's and permahasten was widely promoted.

 

This does not mean that the developers, both Paragon and later HC, are entirely unaware of the imbalancing effects of high rech. Since the start of the Incarnate era they have gotten better at simply not allowing powers to be permanent, either through denying recharge enhancement (rune) or properly tuning the base rech (parasitic aura). New and revamped sets are also generally designed to have fewer skippable powers, which may be an attempt at re-introducing build tension and making the choice to mule lotgs less straightforward. However,
I would like to see more efforts to counter the softcap meta through autohit attacks and debuffs, critters with varying tohit, short-duration tohit buffs, etc.

 

 

 

[arcane]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

They are good but not mandatory. My Rad/ Tank only has one in his build and yet I’m confident that no soft-cap building 5x LotG pug is going to make me feel bad about it. 

I guess I should clarify that, obviously, if you have 5+ defense powers, it would be best to go ahead and use the proc. Kind of silly not to.

 

The part that’s more optional is bothering to pick that many defense powers in the first place if you have other priorities. For example all of my Tankers are going to have Hasten/SS/CJ/SJ/TP/CTP/Fold Space/Char/Melt Armor/Fire Ball. No room for a 2nd defense power on my Rad/SS after that.

Edited Monday at 06:29 PM by arcane

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

The question is then why, given the obvious balance implications, lotg was designed this way. Since there is a wide variety of pool powers that give +def, realistically any toon can get 5x lotgs; defense sets are the one class that every AT has easy access to. This avoids the much more serious balance problem of some powersets/AT's being able to cap out on lotgs while others cannot.

 

I feel like the old, end-of-Live, team knew what they wanted to do, and also what they were comfortable with. The last round of planned changes (Live) IMO thoroughly had the thumb on the scale for Blasters. Global recharge is definitely a big benefit for Blasters, *and* having an option for large Global Recharge somewhat mollifies concerns over something like AoE Controls (i.e. Controller "nukes") having ~4-minute base recharge times. Obviously there are many powers in the game with recharge timers with a base recharge of greater than 4 minutes.

 

I recall a sort of constant undercurrent of discussion on Live relating to "Should Hasten be made inherent?"... I don't think it was as popular as "Should the Fighting pool be made inherent?"... but it always felt to me that some of the IO set pieces exist to (my words) paper over both those sorts of questions. Certain IOs provide some of what players likely want from those powers (e.g. Hasten, Tough, Weave) and while those sorts of singleton IOs exist (also, multi-piece set bonuses), it would be easy to say "Those powers won't be made inherent" without generating agita in a majority of players.

 

As for "Why is it in a Defense set?" I can only guess. My guess is that among all the game mechanics, Defense is likely the attribute that a majority of players would seek out anyway, more toggles yields more (or layered) Defense, and that there are (as noted) a LOT of powers that provide some Defense. The only other basic game mechanic that is as uniformly available to all ATs are attacks, and those have a (better) Global Recharge bonus available through slotting Very Rare sets. Other game mechanics like Heals, Buffs, Debuffs, and even Resistance are rather limited in choice compared to Defense options (across all ATs, whatever primary/secondary).

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

Farming for massive amounts of inf wasn't something too many people knew about

Oh, we knew about it.  But given the insane costs for all but the most useless set IO's...  (Heck, even desirable common IOs could get pretty spendy.)  It just wasn't practical for any but the most hardcore.

[Clave Dark 5]

I often don't bother unless I'm making a new Dom (which happens a lot).  I often start my new builds by taking others' posted here on the forums, and then start pulling out stuff I don't want, like the usual Boxing/Tough/Weave cookie-cutter choices.

 

The "meta" of a lot of players here (or at least those who post on the forums ha ha) are all about squeezing out a fraction of an extra percent in any area they possible can.  More power to 'em, I've learned some good stuff from them; not my idea of fun though, that's like studying spreadsheets at work or doing homework.  And not one you have to follow, define your own fun!

[GM Crumpet]

9 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I often don't bother unless I'm making a new Dom (which happens a lot).  I often start my new builds by taking others' posted here on the forums, and then start pulling out stuff I don't want, like the usual Boxing/Tough/Weave cookie-cutter choices.

 

The "meta" of a lot of players here (or at least those who post on the forums ha ha) are all about squeezing out a fraction of an extra percent in any area they possible can.  More power to 'em, I've learned some good stuff from them; not my idea of fun though, that's like studying spreadsheets at work or doing homework.  And not one you have to follow, define your own fun!

Same for me. I'll follow someone elses build if it's good, but often it doesn't fit with my playstyle. "Why did they take that power? It's rubbish" kind of thing. I have the same problem in Diablo 4. Online builds are a decent guide, but they always seem to shove a power I hate or never use in there over something I think is awesome. And don't get me started on legendaries and mythics and devs forcing their build choices on players with the sometimes quite odd choices they make for the bonuses. 

[Stormwalker]

11 hours ago, Maelwys said:

As for LoTG +7.5%s? Typically any of my powers that I'm already taking which accepts Defense IO sets will get one. But I very rarely go out of my way to take specific additional powers just to slot extra LoTGs.

 

I'm pretty sure I've never once taken a defense power just so I could slot another LotG.  I have, on occasion, weighed that benefit alongside the benefits of taking certain powers (for example, I like Evasive Maneuvers on its own merits (mostly for additional Hover speed in combat), but it's easier to justify choosing it over some other power I might be considering when I also know that I can also drop an LotG +rech in it.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

 

I'm pretty sure I've never once taken a defense power just so I could slot another LotG.  I have, on occasion, weighed that benefit alongside the benefits of taking certain powers (for example, I like Evasive Maneuvers on its own merits (mostly for additional Hover speed in combat), but it's easier to justify choosing it over some other power I might be considering when I also know that I can also drop an LotG +rech in it.

 

On some Doms I do take the concealment pool, just to get the extra LOTG recharge cause it makes perma doming easier.

[Frozen Burn]

I don't use the LotG set at all - I only use the special IO for the +global recharge and that is it.  Otherwise, the set is pretty useless overall.  To me, Reactive Defenses and Shield Wall are far better sets than LotG.  

• If you're 3-slotting: 
  • Shield wall gives same Regen Bonus but more HPs than LotG
  • Reactive Defenses gives more useful S/L resistance than the regen and more HPs than LotG
• If you're 4-slotting:
  • Shield Wall's E/N resists is more useful than LotG's +Acc, which you can get from so many other sets in your build.
  • Reactive Defenses' F/C is also more useful than the +Acc from LotG (plus you're also getting that +S/L resist from the 2 slots)
• If you're 5-slotting:
  • Still use 4 of Shield Wall or 4 Reactive Defenses (with one being their unique) and the LotG Def/+Global Rech - this is far better than 5 LotGs.
  • The S/L Resist Bonus on LotG's 5th slot is nice, but it's also a fairly common bonus across other sets, armors, etc that you can get it from, and it's benefit doesn't outweigh the more useful bonuses from the 2-4 slots of Shield Wall or Reactive Defenses.
  • 5-slotting Reactive Defenses for the End Discount can be useful for End heavy builds - but then I'd want to invest a 6th slot to add in the LotG special (unless I had enough defensive powers to slot 5 of them elsewhere).
• If you're 6-slotting:
  • Still use 4 of Shield Wall or 4 Reactive Defense and BOTH of their specials + the LotG Def/+Global Rech.  
  • No need to 6-slot any of the 3 sets except for maybe Reactive Defenses for the End Discount and +Recharge on the 5th and 6th slots.
  • Again, maybe 5-slot Reactive Defenses and the LotG Def/+Gobal Rech.... but, nah, not for me.

...in my opinion of course.  🙂  

 

[tidge]

Like @Frozen Burn I never view the multi-slot bonuses from LotG favorably. Occasionally, if a power is going to hold the Def/+Recharge piece and is a toggle and is going to hold three slots total, I will opt for Defense and Defense/Endurance Reduction... but otherwise I think the set bonuses from LotG are pretty much rubbish. I'm not even inclined to chase the potential extra Regeneration from 2-slots, although I think I have at least one Tanker build where a second slot is a 50+5 LotG Defense piece.

 

I'll add this small bit of personal experience: Since I tend to have "mule" powers for LotG at the end of a build, I will try to experiment (via unslotters) pulling out a LotG to see if it has any meaningful impact on my play experience. If I can't see a difference between having it and not having it except on some spreadsheet I try to repurpose my choices. One example is in late choice travel powers (e.g. infiltration) where I can swap in the 20% Slow Resistance piece from Winter's Gift. I don't tend to use that many Winter sets in my builds so that source of Slow Resistance is often something that ends up improving Quality of Life/Play for the character.

 

On that final point: There aren't that many global pieces in sets other than Defense that have convenient no-extra-slot power choices without having to a take prerequisite powers or get locked into a Patron/Epic/Origin pool. The Preventive Maintenance %Absorb is the only one that comes to mind other than the Universal Travel pieces and Defense pieces where it is easy to pick a single power from power pool and get whatever bonus.

[Stormwalker]

12 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

I don't use the LotG set at all - I only use the special IO for the +global recharge and that is it.  Otherwise, the set is pretty useless overall.  To me, Reactive Defenses and Shield Wall are far better sets than LotG.  

• If you're 3-slotting: 
  • Shield wall gives same Regen Bonus but more HPs than LotG
  • Reactive Defenses gives more useful S/L resistance than the regen and more HPs than LotG
• If you're 4-slotting:
  • Shield Wall's E/N resists is more useful than LotG's +Acc, which you can get from so many other sets in your build.
  • Reactive Defenses' F/C is also more useful than the +Acc from LotG (plus you're also getting that +S/L resist from the 2 slots)
• If you're 5-slotting:
  • Still use 4 of Shield Wall or 4 Reactive Defenses (with one being their unique) and the LotG Def/+Global Rech - this is far better than 5 LotGs.
  • The S/L Resist Bonus on LotG's 5th slot is nice, but it's also a fairly common bonus across other sets, armors, etc that you can get it from, and it's benefit doesn't outweigh the more useful bonuses from the 2-4 slots of Shield Wall or Reactive Defenses.
  • 5-slotting Reactive Defenses for the End Discount can be useful for End heavy builds - but then I'd want to invest a 6th slot to add in the LotG special (unless I had enough defensive powers to slot 5 of them elsewhere).
• If you're 6-slotting:
  • Still use 4 of Shield Wall or 4 Reactive Defense and BOTH of their specials + the LotG Def/+Global Rech.  
  • No need to 6-slot any of the 3 sets except for maybe Reactive Defenses for the End Discount and +Recharge on the 5th and 6th slots.
  • Again, maybe 5-slot Reactive Defenses and the LotG Def/+Gobal Rech.... but, nah, not for me.

...in my opinion of course.  🙂  

 

 

I occasionally use the LotG set if I am already maxed out on some of the set bonuses from the other sets (this is really only an issue with sets that have tons of defense powers, like /SR and /EA, and usually even not then because I usually slot a mix of 1 LotG + 4 Shield Wall, 1 LotG + some number of Reactive Defenses, and 1 LotG + 5 Red Fortune (if I REALLY need recharge, like with Claws and DB which demand huge amounts of recharge for their optimal attack chains), or straight 6-slotted Reactive Defenses (which gives more recharge than the LotG unique does).

 

My DB/SR does actually have one 5-piece LotG planned, though.  Consequence of having 7* defense powers in her build and an enormous hunger for recharge (she is an experimental build intended to run Blinding Feint -> Ablating Strike -> Sweeping Strike as an attack chain.  She has 285% global +recharge in her final build plan.  I don't know if this will actually prove to be worthwhile, but it's going to be fun to find out.)

 

I also do occasionally slot 2-pic. LotG (usually +rech and Def/End) in a power which is a little bit too endurance hungry to run JUST the +rech.

 

EDIT: * 9 if I remember to count Hover and Evasive Maneuvers!

Edited Tuesday at 07:23 PM by Stormwalker