Forum Moderation - give me suggestions and feedback

[Stormwalker]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

And in a formal setting, with real-time moderation, I'd agree that absolutely no name calling should be permitted.  That being said, this is an internet forum for a video game, where trash-talking and playful banter are to be expected.  We are, supposedly, all adults here, so if someone cannot handle the potential for some less-than-neighborly recourse, then maybe their ideas can't stand the scrutiny.  It criticism of one's idea(s) can so easily be refuted, then do that when presented with "Your idea is dumb because of reason X".  If you present a bad idea, how that is called out shouldn't be as important as why it's dumb, and if that "why" is presented in a coherent manner, then that's where the discussion should stop.  It's like a driver of a car being upset because they didn't like how you pointed out to them that they were going the wrong way or something... if they hadn't gone the wrong way, there wouldn't have been a reason for you to yell at them in the first place.

 

My viewpoint is that the more emotionally invested people are in their opinions, the more important it is to be polite.

 

The combination of emotional investment and a "politeness is not needed" attitude is a recipe for conflict.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Stormwalker said:

My viewpoint is that the more emotionally invested people are in their opinions, the more important it is to be polite.

There is an inherent flaw in this. If you attempt to strip out emotion and be polite, people think you're being rude because of the lack of emotion. (Claim is lack of social skill.) And if you leave the emotion in, people think you're being rude because of the emotion. (Edit: And if you try to be nice, people think you're being rude anyway. Typically with claims of condescension, talking down, or being insincere.) (Please bear in mind that "you" in this case is not "you" specifically, but just in general.) I agree that people should be polite, but sometimes people just insist on reading posts as being rude.

 

Edited March 18 by Rudra

[arcane]

Allow players to delete their forum accounts tbh

[tidge]

 

I find the forum moderation to be better-than-not. I do have a couple of suggestions:

 

#1 I think the forum members deserve more than a "be excellent to each other" or "we are watching" comment; there should be some specificity regarding the behavior that prompts such a post.

 

My thinking is: Some members, some fraction of the time, don't recognize what is drawing the attention of a forum moderator.

 

#2 When posts are hidden, I similarly think a note acknowledging the moderator action, with a brief explanation that can offer clues to forum members about behavior that was considered inappropriate. I'm not looking for a novel-length replies to content.

 

My own "forum moderation grievance list"  is shallow:

 

#1 I believe that the forum moderation is too slow to recognize and/or call out certain negative/bad-faith behavior, with a corollary that sometimes the hammer falls on folks who call out the negative/bad-faith behavior.

 

This makes it difficult to know if the mods simply don't recognize the behavior as bad, or if they actually tolerate it. I'm specifically thinking of a semi-recent case of sea-lioning, but I also occasionally see both direct and oblique insults that stand out. Not real example, but things like "I can't tell if you are genetically fat, or you just eat everything in sight." There isn't any way IMO to see those types of comments, even in drive-by as anything but insulting.

 

Suggestion: See above about being more transparent.

 

#2 One common behavior that spirals is what I refer to as self-brigading. A user makes a post (often in the suggestion forum) that receives analysis, criticism, or clarification that doesn't agree that the proposal is 100% correct and brilliant. The original user then begins a meticulous process of responding to every other post, often in minute ways... so instead of receiving a dopamine hit from direct validation, the dopamine is flowing from "energized" back-and-forth.

 

Suggestion: Prepare a stock message to indicate that forum discussion is a back-and-forth, and to be aware that forum ideas are neither a good place to seek validation nor should every idea be considered to be "perfect"... and to make users aware that full-throated defenses of minutae often result in antagonistic postings that serve no purpose here.

Edited March 18 by tidge
corrected a negative/non-negative statement

[SeraphimKensai]

@GM_GooglyMoogly you're likely a better forum moderator than I would be as I'm a combat vet with a super thick skin and morbid sense of humor, so I wouldn't probably think twice over some of the comments I read that might otherwise trigger some others.

 

Otherwise you're pretty active on the forums, and I get it as someone who's on the forums myself quite a bit, everyone has a job/life so we can't always be here 24/7.

 

Overall I would just make sure you think about equity when dealing with moderation, but let's be real for a moment (and this is coming from the perspective of a parent potty training a toddler...) if something smells like shit, It's probably shit.

 

o7.

[battlewraith]

There's a very simple solution for a number of these complaints. One that is referenced in places like the sticky for the suggestions forum. 

 

If you don't like a thread, stop replying. Let it drop off the page. 

 

In my experience, the people that complain the most about divisiveness are the ones you can expect to engage with it. They can't simply walk away. 

And it looks like, from some of these comments, they want the moderators to step in and lock things down so that they don't have to.

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

#1 I believe that the forum moderation is too slow to recognize and/or call out certain negative/bad-faith behavior, with a corollary that sometimes the hammer falls on folks who call out the negative/bad-faith behavior.

Agreed.

 

And I guess that a TL;DR version of my last post is that: I don't care how strict or how lax the rules are. Just as long as they're 1) Specific, and; 2) Applied equally to everyone. As I'm sure you've noticed I don't believe that #2 has ever happened and that is the source of about 99% of my issues with the moderation on this forum.

[Indystruck]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

Allow players to delete their forum accounts tbh

 

addendum, let me delete other players forum accounts

[Stormwalker]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

There is an inherent flaw in this. If you attempt to strip out emotion and be polite, people think you're being rude because of the lack of emotion. (Claim is lack of social skill.) And if you leave the emotion in, people think you're being rude because of the emotion. (Edit: And if you try to be nice, people think you're being rude anyway. Typically with claims of condescension, talking down, or being insincere.) (Please bear in mind that "you" in this case is not "you" specifically, but just in general.) I agree that people should be polite, but sometimes people just insist on reading posts as being rude.

 

 

Obviously, if someone is predisposed to interpret what you say in the worst possible way, then nothing you can do will prevent that.

 

Even so, being polite is the best social tool we have for keeping discourse civil.  It won't always work, but that's no reason not to try.

 

IMO, anyway.

[Super Atom]

[beanbag]

this is not a reference to the discussion involving beanbag vs aim, this is simply a beanbag posting.

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:25 PM by Super Atom

[Bionic_Flea]

Sometimes I think you guys don't moderate enough.

 

Other times I think you moderate too much.

 

I guess that means it's balanced . . . ish.

 

2 hours ago, Super Atom said:

[beanbag]

this is not a reference to the discussion involving beanbag vs aim, this is simply a beanbag posting.

 

 

Sorry, I felt it need a visual.

[Nerio72]

The only thing I don't like is that stuff just disappears sometimes and without an explanation on why. I understand wanting to disappear some things but then no one learns from them.

[PoptartsNinja]

This is less feedback and more suggestion.

 

It might be worthwhile to have moderators focus on assigned subforums or small groups of subforums--with people pitching in outside 'their' area if someone's away or there's a spam attack in General--rather than having to police the whole of the forums and all of the stress that probably entails.

 

It would definitely be worthwhile to have a moderator administrator whose job it is to review mod activity in some capacity. I believe the orange GMs probably already do this to some extent, but a mod admin's job would also be to report mod actions taken to the devs in some capacity to prevent scenarios like this (which, I assume, would be a dev not realizing a thread has been moderated):

20 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I won't even go into how a developer lied to me, claiming that no one had disagreed with a change that had been added to the game and, as proof, offered a link to a thread that had already been heavily edited to remove all of the push back against said change.

 

 

And I definitely think it would be worthwhile to have a public record of moderator activity. I don't mean a "name and shame" thread that airs out dirty laundry or calls out specific posters, I trust the moderators to monitor who they're moderating and why and that they're sharing their information with each other to prevent a "missing stair" from sneaking in; but a generalized log to give people an idea why moderation was done in a specific thread and why a more innocent post might have gotten caught in the crossfire would be a good idea. Something like:

MM/DD/YYYY: [link to thread] X posts hidden due to back-and-forth sniping between people, Y additional posts hidden collaterally due to being quotes of or replies to a hidden post.
MM/DD/YYYY: [link to thread] X posts hidden due to being wildly off toping and distracting from the thread, Y additional posts hidden collaterally due to being quotes of or replies to a hidden post.

etc.
 

I think having to maintain a public log would have the added benefit of reducing the public perception that the mods are taking arbitrary actions (i.e. someone hiding a post because they're having a bad day, etc). I doubt that's ever happened, but the potential for suspicion always exists and I imagine quite a few people on these forums have come from a forum where arbitrary moderation was the norm. A log could also help reduce the suspicion that mods are targeting people specifically.

[Captain Fabulous]

The only issue I've had with moderation in these forums, and this has been long before you've been here so it's not directed solely at you, is the unwillingness to rein in the non-stop shitposters -- the people who do nothing but troll, harass, and antagonize other posters. They bring nothing of value to this forum yet are allowed to continue seemingly unabated. Their actions actively dissuade other people from posting because they know whatever they say is going to result in a dogpile.

[shortguy on indom]

On 3/17/2025 at 6:46 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

I know that many of you aren't happy with my moderation style and decisions so here's your chance to tell me  why.

 

• HOW HAVE YOU COME TO THIS CONCLUSION?... NOT ME ANYWAY.
• THIS IS THE TAMEST FORUM WHICH I HAVE EVER BEEN ON.  DO NOT SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF.

[GM Crumpet]

On 3/17/2025 at 10:46 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

So I have been on the GM team for a little over a year and it seems that I've settled into the role of forum moderator.

 

I know that many of you aren't happy with my moderation style and decisions so here's your chance to tell me  why.

 

How would you suggest that I do it differently?

 

What feedback do you have?

 

Go ahead, take a whack.

You always make an excuse on cupcake Tuesday not to buy cupcakes and buy a sheet cake instead. This is unacceptable!! 

[GM Crumpet]

Interesting discussion and excellent points all round. The problem in the past has been that moderation of the forums was done by whoever was available, and sometimes was a little inconsistent. I know I've been guilty in the past of maybe not being as fair as I could be. I do try to take peoples as being passionate rather than trolling, so sometimes posts that should have been hidden have been left. I certainly try to talk to people rather than just wield the large ban hammer. 

 

So we lucked out and got GooglyMoogly. Who gravitated to the forums and seems to have a flair for it. Widower is lead in charge, but Googly does most of the leg work. I'm in awe at their ability to keep calm and try to herd cats keep things civil. I'll step in if needed, but a lot of the time I wait for Googly. We do tend to discuss issues amongst ourselves, and while Googly hits the button many times it's a group decision. 

 

I tend to do tickets, and my main area is generics. I mess up sometimes and am more than happy to pass a generic to the leads for adjudication, or if someone can give me good reasons why I was wrong I'll put my hands up and apologise and reverse the decision. Googly is the same. There is no ego, there is no "I made a decision and even if it's wrong I'm sticking to it". You are always welcome to appeal, or send in well thought out reasons. We do this job because we love the community, and while there are times we would like to bang our heads gently on the desk we continue out of genuine love for the game and community. Personally I adore Googly and think they are awesome. It doesn't mean I won't talk to them if I think they are wrong (and trust me, Googly will call me out if I mess up a generic) but I think they do a sometimes thankless job really well. 

 

Regards, Crumpet. 

[Wingslord24]

Don't take sides and don't be so quick to judge.

[Frozen Burn]

@GM_GooglyMoogly, I have always found your posts to be fair, impartial, and spot on for when things go awry and a thread needs locking.  You've also partaken in fun discussions and brought some humor too.  I don't think you need to change anything at all, from what I've seen.  Keep up the great work and thanks for doing it!  You and the other GMs rock!  🙂  

[Mystoc]

maybe add an off-topic reaction emoji it would be a way of the poster saying I see what you said but it has nothing to do with suggestion/feedback so I'm not engaging, if you don't respond people think it's a dead post that was abandoned so reacting in other ways that don't involve commenting is the best comprise.

 

off topic comments often derail the original post so much that it often gets closed when it turns into 2-3 people arguing which turns into them verbally attacking each other, if you look at all locked threads this is usually the cause. my main feedback is I wish off topic comments were caught sooner and didn't turn into the post getting locked so much.

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

off topic comments often derail the original post so much that it often gets closed when it turns into 2-3 people arguing which turns into them verbally attacking each other, if you look at all locked threads this is usually the cause. my main feedback is I wish off topic comments were caught sooner and didn't turn into the post getting locked so much.

This is a good point. I'm still smarting a bit about a suggestion thread of mine (years ago) that was locked after two posters took it upon themselves to get into a massive argument that wasn't even on topic. I get that from the moderators point of view a thread that is blowing up into arguments is a headache and locking it is a simple option but it doesn't feel very fair to those not directly involved - particularly the OP. Perhaps the moderators could look at removing problematic posters from a thread before resorting to locking it (assuming the opening poster themselves aren't the issue)?

[Greycat]

On 3/17/2025 at 8:41 PM, biostem said:

Gatekeeping isn't always bad, and perhaps we should require new people actually participate in the existing community before starting new topics.

 

Personally, I've found this irritating as hell the times I've run into it.

 

If I'm a new person - maybe I've been on the forum and looked up "is this a known bug" or something, and I run into a problem, I shouldn't have to "be this tall to ride" before posting "Hey, I brought out the pez dispenser power and the zone exploded, I think this is a bug, is anyone else seeing this?" or otherwise starting a new topic to ask a question or make a suggestion.

 

If anything, "Must have X number of posts" would just lead to a bunch of garbage posts (such as what used to just be referred to as "me too"s) to get to that number and muck things up further.

 

(As far as @GM_GooglyMoogly's question? I think things have been fair. Agreed with some actions, disagreed with others, think some things have been missed at times, the only thing *I'd* like to see isn't really a "moderation" thing but if a post's been inactive for some time... have it auto-lock. I may play necromancers. Doesn't mean I'm into it on the forums.)

[tidge]

18 hours ago, Mystoc said:

off topic comments often derail the original post so much that it often gets closed when it turns into 2-3 people arguing which turns into them verbally attacking each other, if you look at all locked threads this is usually the cause. my main feedback is I wish off topic comments were caught sooner and didn't turn into the post getting locked so much.

 

I have a strong /agree here. There is at least one (currently open) thread in the forums I am following/participating in that was essentially derailed because one player tossed out a hyperbolic anecdote (presumably intended to be a "____ is not *my* experience" flavor of response) among their multiple other responses and then there were a flood of followups somewhere on the spectrum of "picking-nits" to "hypothesis testing as refutation" of the hyperbolic anecdote.

 

FWIW: Adding personal experience (including anecdotes!) can be valuable to illustrate personal thinking, but in my experience they are best shared to inform others of why I have the opinion I do, and not as objective evidence that my opinions are correct or why their opinions are wrong.

[ScarySai]

Things I take issue with in general, doubt it's just you.

 

1. Closing a thread entirely when a handful of people are having a discussion that's mildly heated. If it's truly off the rails, there's better ways to handle it than just closing the thread. Particularly when the topic is a popular one.

 

2. Person A directs a charged comment at person B, person B responds matching the energy, person b's post gets deleted but not person A.

 

Off the top of my head, anyway. I prefer discord to the forums because any interesting discussions here that don't get brigaded and closed are oft disrupted by the same group of people. If people respond to said people, either to correct the record or respond to a direct comment, the thread is considered off topic and closed

 

It's completely asinine.

Edited Thursday at 06:49 PM by ScarySai
Edited to adhere to poor moderation standards.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

8 hours ago, ScarySai said:

there's better ways to handle it than just closing the thread.

 

Such as . . .?

 

8 hours ago, ScarySai said:

same band of [not nice word that was edited out]

 

Calling people names on the forums is one way to get moderated.  Would you like to edit your comment or should I take some other action?

 

**Thanks for editing, Sai**

 

Edited Thursday at 10:56 PM by GM_GooglyMoogly