Sell me a sentinel

[ShiverMeRivets]

So what is so great about sentinels?

I never played them on live. In fact, I did not even remember that they existed.

 

I mean, if I wanted ranged damage, blasters do it better. If I wanted to use armor and be in the thick of things, I have scrappers, brutes, and tanks. A Sentinel sounds like a combination of a poor blaster with a poor tank. So what is it about? Blasting from afar and kyting the mob? Lazy forgiving blaster? Solo specialist AT?

[Destlin]

they do better sustained AoE dps than a blaster,who is king of burst AoE in this game. Every mob they hit takes 5% more damage from all sources and they give a 20% damage increase with vulnerability. They pay for their tankiness and utility  with a 10 mob cap instead of 16. Their power sets are a bit different than blasters as well which is nice. And it has been my experience so far that they were by far the easiest to kill AV's with, now that is only out of level 50 brute, scrapper, blaster, corrupter and the sentinel. I have not gotten any of the other classes to 50 so i can't say on that front. The only real had sell i could give is to try one out and most likely fall in love with the class like the rest of us did. Dark has low damage though I guess because the to hit debuff ( which is crazy good)but the rest are good with a couple outliers. Fire does amazing ST dps and pretty good AoE and water does amazing AoE dps with insane CD on gyser.

 

TLDR: sents are crazy fun.

[Seigmoraig]

The reason you never played them on live is that they are a custom class created by the Homecoming team!

[Keleko]

How about when a team I was on with my energy/Inv/fire wiped all but me and a blaster, who retreated. The tank got hit by a Malta sapper and went down, and the rest followed. I cleaned up the mess while getting cheers from the rest of the faceplanters. It was set to 50+4, and I am still working on T3 incarnate powers.

[justicebeliever]

I've get a nice shiny new sentinel to sell you...It's got very few miles on it, hardly been touched...Pretty much brand new...

 

Let's see...well sticker price would be 500M inf...but since I like you, I'm going to give you a nice discount...Don't tell my manager

 

How about we go halvies...250M inf...It's a steal...

 

Wait, what?  You want on of those used models?  The ones with 50 levels on them...I can't in good faith do that...you know the mileage and all, the wear and tear...best go with the new one...but since we are negotiating and I like the cut of your jib...100M inf...But that's my final offer...

[Destlin]

The reason you never played them on live is that they are a custom class created by the Homecoming team!

 

No they are what the original devs put into the code but it was not ready for release yet. the Homecoming team just turned it on.

[Lockpick]

I have the following at 50:

 

Huntsman SOA

DP/MC Blaster

DP/EM Blaster

DP/Ninjitsu Sentinel

 

All of these guys are ranged and shoot guns and they are all fun to play.  I leveled my Huntsman SOA first and then I played my DP/Ninjitsu Sentinel to about 42 and felt the damage was lackluster.  I then went to my DP/MC and then DP/EM.  Damage was better, but I was always taking big hits or getting defeated.  I went back to the DP/Ninjitsu and took him to 50.  The lower damage no longer bothered me because I was defeating enemies quickly enough for me and I am rarely defeated.  The only 2 times I have been defeated since hitting 50 are in Apex TF during the Battle Maiden fight when I cannot move out of the blue fast enough.  The DP/Ninjitsu Sentinel has at least 45% defense to melee, range, and AOE, so is a beast.  DP also looks cool when linked to MC or Ninjitsu.

 

The Huntsman SOA may be the best of the bunch though.  He also has at least 45% defense to melee, range, and AOE, and brings buffs to the team.  He just doesn't look as cool as the DP guys and coolness does count.

[justicebeliever]

The reason you never played them on live is that they are a custom class created by the Homecoming team!

 

No they are what the original devs put into the code but it was not ready for release yet. the Homecoming team just turned it on.

 

Destlin, the Sentinel is a 100% a SCoRE invention (the people who do the game coding for Homecoming).  You might be thinking of the Striker, which you can read more about here

[Ironscarlet]

How about when a team I was on with my energy/Inv/fire wiped all but me and a blaster, who retreated. The tank got hit by a Malta sapper and went down, and the rest followed. I cleaned up the mess while getting cheers from the rest of the faceplanters. It was set to 50+4, and I am still working on T3 incarnate powers.

 

This happens all the time. Make me feel like a Super Hero not just a Hero.

 

On live my main was a tank and I ve already lvl 2 Tanks to 50. With a Sentinal I feel just as comfortable  living as I do with a Tank. Not all set are the same though some feel like tankers some feel like scrapper in playstyle.

 

 

Living through  unthinkable odds.is amazing but people expect  that from tanks these days. From a sent being the last alive finishing the 3 groups that were pulled why your dead teammates watch in aw  quateing afterwards "how you do that, your amazing, or I think I am going to build a sent.."Makes my day

 

Don't expect blaster numbers and you won't be disappointed. Saving  your team gets you off you will love Sentinals.

[PaxArcana]

I never played them on live. In fact, I did not even remember that they existed.

They were never released on Live.

 

I mean, if I wanted ranged damage, blasters do it better.

Your DPS is 0.000 when you're face-down on the floor with 0hp.

 

Solo specialist AT?

This.

 

Or rather, RANGED soloist AT (where the Scrapper is the MELEE soloist AT).

 

When played solo, Sentinels are Blasters that trade in a little bit of damage-per-second potential, for a LOT more survivability when they don't have someone else tanking for them.

 

When on a team, Sentinels are Blasters who don't need to be baby-sat nearly as much by the healing-power Defenders and Controllers.

 

((Also, a /WillPower Sentinel is going to have a MUCH easier time of END management than any Blaster alive ... solo and teamed.))

[Obitus]

((Also, a /WillPower Sentinel is going to have a MUCH easier time of END management than any Blaster alive ... solo and teamed.))

 

Agree with everything else you said, but these days Blasters have great end management, pretty much across the board.  The sustain powers are just that good.

[Sovera]

Despite the enthusiastic answers here the truth is that a Blaster can be pretty much as durable with capped ranged and Smash/Lethal defenses, while also annihilating a pack with the opening nuke that does twice the damage (solo) of a sentinel. On reddit there's a guy who soloed a 4/8 ITF on his blaster, so, the vaunted solo ability of a sentinel in exchange for damage is a bit eh.

[nihilii]

Blasters played well are no joke. But there's that pesky "played well" requirement...

 

Sentinels allow for more mitigation than barely softcapped S/L + ranged. Which lets less twitchy players have their fun too.

[Fedifensor]

Despite the enthusiastic answers here the truth is that a Blaster can be pretty much as durable with capped ranged and Smash/Lethal defenses, while also annihilating a pack with the opening nuke that does twice the damage (solo) of a sentinel. On reddit there's a guy who soloed a 4/8 ITF on his blaster, so, the vaunted solo ability of a sentinel in exchange for damage is a bit eh.

I would be more impressed if “a guy” was the norm, instead of the very top end of the scale.  It’s possible for a sentinel to softcap ranged/smashing/lethal defense, AND hardcap smashing/lethal resistance, so the durability is not equal.  Whether that extra durability is overkill is a matter of debate, but the fact remains that the average sentinel is significantly more durable than the average blaster.

 

Damage can also be a matter of overkill.  My fire/fire sentinel wipes normal difficulty spawns with ease, and the only thing holding the character back with large spawns is the target cap on cones and targeted AoEs.  It may not be quite as fast as the blaster...but I don’t have to worry about a lucky mez through my defenses shutting me down.

 

The comparisons also seem to focus on level 50 play.  Until you hit level 27, the largest source of ranged defense (Thunderstrike) is unavailable to you, and you won’t have the powers and slots to softcap ranged defense until sometime in the 30s or 40s (depending on powerset and build).  Many people burn out on a character before then if it isn’t working well.

[Obitus]

Blasters played well are no joke. But there's that pesky "played well" requirement...

 

Sentinels allow for more mitigation than barely softcapped S/L + ranged. Which lets less twitchy players have their fun too.

 

It comes down to that age-old pesky question of how to value defense vs offense. 

 

For years and years (and even now, arguably), Blasters paid way too much for their alleged offensive superiority.  It wasn't even a question; Scrappers (for example) could (can) be several times more survivable, in some cases orders of magnitude more survivable, whereas Blasters in the best case were only marginally better at damage output, and even then only really AoE damage output.

 

Single-target damage for Blasters was always weak, and to this day it largely remains so.  We used to see certain flavors of Tanker put up comparable DPS scores in the Pylon thread to the best Blaster powerset combos.  Again, this problem is less pronounced than it used to be, but the basic premise remains that ST damage is the province of melee ATs (or certain debuff builds).

 

Incidentally, all of this points to why I don't agree with people who call for Sentinels to be given Assault-like primary sets, mixing ranged and melee attacks.  Blasters were arguably hobbled by the decision to give them melee attacks, because once you introduce melee as an inherent part of an AT's design, you're left with an inescapable dilemma:  the melee attacks have to be strong enough to make them worth using, which means they must be stronger than ranged attacks (on average), which means that ranged sets have to be (comparatively) weak, lest the whole AT's performance dwarf everyone else's.  In other words, Blasters, who were given zero defenses to pay for their ranged-damage crown, actually had pedestrian DPS from range (a couple of powersets notwithstanding), in part because you could always point to this-or-that WTFPWN melee attack in a Blaster secondary.

 

But that points to a problem that migrated to Sentinels, which is that ranged sets alone tend to be comparatively weak.  Again, this is less true than it used to be, in large part because of crashless nukes (and to an extent fast snipes, which Sentinels don't get), but it's still worth noting.  As Sunsette noted in another thread for example, Energy Blast's (single-target) DPS just isn't at all good, and Energy's certainly closer to the average than, say, Fire or Ice. 

 

(By the way, Ice's single-target DPS was inexplicably nerfed on Sentinels. On the other hand, Sentinel Sonic Blast got a fairly big buff.  There appears to be very little rhyme or reason to the decisions made in porting blast sets to Sentinels.)

 

Of course, you could argue quite reasonably that the bulk of the game's content emphasizes AoE and not single-target damage.  Given the existence of Lore pets and -regen temp powers, this argument is even more compelling now.  And Energy Blast should have competitive AoE output, among Torrent, Explosive Blast, and Nova.  But here again the Sentinel is a bit stymied, because Sentinels have markedly lower AoE target caps.

 

None of this is to say that Sentinels suck.  I agree with Nihilii that they have a refreshing niche as a sort of easygoing soloist option.  Despite all of my above complaints, Sentinels almost certainly handle better than Scrappers in high-end team environments, for example; even if their damage is lower on paper, Sentinels don't have to run from target to target, and they have more AoE damage, on average.  And Sentinels are far easier and cheaper to bring to a high level of solo or self-contained performance than most of the squishy ATs that people compare them to.

 

But if you don't pick one of the better blast sets (e.g. Fire), and if you're in it for the long haul (high-end IO/Incarnate building), then you may find yourself disappointed.  Sentinels could use some tweaks.

 

As for Blasters, yeah, I think they have a high ceiling when played well, and the new Sustain powers certainly shouldn't be under-estimated from a quality-of-life standpoint, but if we're gonna talk ceiling then Blasters are marginalized by VEATs/Corruptors and certain flavors of Controller/Dominator/Defender, and even some Brutes/Scrappers. 

 

Leaving aside the performance ceiling, Blasters' offensive advantage isn't as big as Sentinels' defensive advantage.

[Ironscarlet]

Despite the enthusiastic answers here the truth is that a Blaster can be pretty much as durable with capped ranged and Smash/Lethal defenses, while also annihilating a pack with the opening nuke that does twice the damage (solo) of a sentinel. On reddit there's a guy who soloed a 4/8 ITF on his blaster, so, the vaunted solo ability of a sentinel in exchange for damage is a bit eh.

 

So yes most blaster well spec can get ranged def or s/l  true. All classes get Barrier with Incarnates. You can fix most holes at end game.  2 points.

 

What do you want ?

 

And

 

When do you want it?

 

Blaster will get there towerds end game  after many hr of work.

Sentinal start there and just get tougher.

 

So if your a player that wants to go through squishy times for many hrs and end on super power damage end with decent toughness at end game. Blaster suits this

 

If you want to start tough and end tougher + mez protection. With specials like absorb shield off tank, aoe heals (combat medic), and so forth. Sentinals offer a little bit of every world except big debuffs.  The absorb shields  got me hooked plying a different game of defense brought something new to me. It will never do blaster numbers but I out live Tanks regularly this is my fun. End game I am just getting tougher and tougher. So damage is not what I am going for. When I played my beam sent and compared it to my blaster I was super disapointed beam blaster was way more damage but mez killed me so beam/bio Sent played it got the nuke and was like wow this is terrible compared to my blaster. When I re rolled a sent to take tons of damage. I figured it out sent are not damage dealers at heart there off tanks or sub tanks. Take alpha like champs. Take agro of xtra pulls, plays tank when your team has none. It excelled at all of that.

 

Blasters and Sentinals play completely diffrent. Play both and figure what style you like. Endgame blasters get tough.  Sentinals get invincible.  Blasters are top damage. Sentinals have great sustained  aoe damage.  People have to stop looking at Sentinals like blaster.

 

One word of warning you can make really bad sent ! A good combo goes along way with Sentinals.

 

People build either a offensive sentinal with/bio , /rad or /fire.

 

Or people make defensive Sentinals with. /regenerate/sr/ will or /inv.

 

A offensive secondary will play like weak blaster with mez protection. A defensive Sentinal will play like Tank jr.

Other combo can work just some guidance. 

[Destlin]

Also people are not thinking outside the box enough with sentinels. They have a few good heals available to them in their ancillary and /rad has a really nice pbaoe heal. Mixed with heal other they can be a healer in a group setting while applying vulnerability and bringing respectable dps. Not to mention a healer that is beefy is a great thing.

[ParaBruce]

Personal opinion: I'm leveling a water blast/willpower sentinel, closing in 30, and...wow. Literally, I have never felt so little worry about either my health or my endurance. Physical limitations make it very hard for me to play melee, so my experience is nearly all ranged, and it falls into two broad categories: doing stuff and being constantly starved for endurance until fairly late in the game, scrounging blue inspirations at every possible moment, constantly re-toggling on the stuff that got shut down in the last zeroing out; and being okay in endurance because I'm basically not doing anything (robots/force field mastermind, say).

 

This is fun. I get to be very active - and water blast is very handy to have on a lot of task forces and missions, where being able to disable so many enemies again and again is significant for the whole team's well being. It's not that I'm invulnerable in the literal sense. The character can be overwhelmed and defeated. It's that while I'm not yet defeated, I always have useful and enjoyable things to do. I have never been so active, so happily, while playing in the ranged zone where I'm happiest, contributing usefully to team efforts and soloing at a good pace when alone.

 

I will never be one of those people pushing the boundaries of the possible - I'm too old, too slow, too gimpy, too etc etc etc. The best I personally can manage is very much middle of the pack, and that's on a good day. :) Sentinels are a force multiplier for me, turning my available effort into better outcomes, which make me happier. So that's my sales pitch. If you like ranged play (and not everyone does, and that's okay), and you're not in a mood or situation to be providing support and/or wrangling pets a lot at the moment, sentinels will give you an empowering good time.

 

(On the Synapse task force I did this afternoon, there was one (1) moment where my endurance bar dipped below 50%, and my health bar never did. So that meant that support didn't have to spend a lot of time tending to me, leaving them that much freer to help our de facto tank and squishier characters, and my up time was, at least by my standards, very very high.)

 

Edited to add: this post wishes to thank its intellectual sponsors, Sovera, Kelly Rocket, Sunset, and Heraclea. You four have given me most food for useful thought about sentinels, and I appreciate y'all.

 

[Sunsette]

Just chiming in here to say that I think Obitus' summary is very, very well thought-out and even-handed. It's about as accurate a 'state of the sentinel' post as I've seen. I've been heavily on the negative side on Sentinel, but I'm leveling a BR reroll of my Energy Sent through Praetoria and the performance is so much better it's ridiculous. In hard content, you really feel it if your primary sucks, and I think Sents possibly have a lot of bad primaries (from a casual scan, AR and Psy are not looking hot at all and of course Energy is bad) which can be responsible for some of the serious ups and downs in how people evaluate them.

[Obitus]

Thanks, Sunsette, always enjoy reading your posts.

[scottybev80]

I made my first Sent last night (Water/Regen) and have to say I'm having the most fun levelling I've had in ages! To be able to keep groups off their feet, take them out pretty quick, and be able to survive a barrage of hits is just brilliant. If feels like so many new build possibilities have opened up. I can't speak for the post-50 gaming experience, but from a levelling point of view.... FUN!!

[ShiverMeRivets]

Thanks for the replies and discussion. This is interesting.

 

First, it is nice to find out that it is not me being stupid forgetting about Sentinels from before the shutdown...

 

About playing sentinels and blasters -

With blasters, a great part of the game (grouped) is holding back and adjusting aggro generation to the melee players ability to hold aggro. I need a good tank/s in the group to be able to go all out right from the start. The impression that I get from the discussion that while sentinel’s damage potential is lower, it is more often, up to always, able to go all out on damage and reach this full potential - because it can deal with the blow back from tanks losing aggro hold.

 

Interesting.

OK, I guess I’ll just have to try it out and see how it plays out.

Now, I need a new RP concept for another alt...

 

[ParaBruce]

The impression that I get from the discussion that while sentinel’s damage potential is lower, it is more often, up to always, able to go all out on damage and reach this full potential - because it can deal with the blow back from tanks losing aggro hold.

 

Broadly, yes. Anyone can get themselves killed with a little effort, of course. :)

 

[Hyperstrike]

Hey mang!  You lookin' for a SENTINEL?

 

*Opens coat*

 

I got what you want!

 

I got what you need!

 

 

AH CRAP!  I FORGOT TO GET DRESSED THIS MORNING!

 

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT FLASHER BEHIND THE TRENCHCOAT!

[Force Redux]

Gonna post my 02 Inf for a Water/Bio. Great AoE, nice damage types that avoid being heavily resisted, layered protection, damage boost, and fun visuals.