Lets talk about Stone Armor:

[Zolgar]

Also, you know, I figured it would be kind of obvious how much I care about the set, the amount of time I sunk in to explaining why the set needs a buff.

If I didn't like the set, I would just ... ignore its existence, like I do with Dark Armor (just not a fan of that set 😛 ).

I see the potential for Stone Armor, I know it can be a good set again, but the design of Stone Armor is dated, Most, if not all, of the other old tanker sets, have been revamped quite a bit throughout the years. For Stone Armor is was a big thing when they finally made the armor toggles not mutually exclusive (it was the last straggler for that, mind you).

[Vadavim]

10 hours ago, Zolgar said:

Also, you know, I figured it would be kind of obvious how much I care about the set, the amount of time I sunk in to explaining why the set needs a buff.

If I didn't like the set, I would just ... ignore its existence, like I do with Dark Armor (just not a fan of that set 😛 ).

I see the potential for Stone Armor, I know it can be a good set again, but the design of Stone Armor is dated, Most, if not all, of the other old tanker sets, have been revamped quite a bit throughout the years. For Stone Armor is was a big thing when they finally made the armor toggles not mutually exclusive (it was the last straggler for that, mind you).

I totally understand where you're coming from. I think it's fine to criticize Stone Armor for its faults (hehe), and I like some of the changes you suggested (especially adding absorb! It feels like Stone Armor should have that). I personally have had a hard time trying to work it into a build. I find myself avoiding it because it just feels too slow for the benefits it provides, and the lack of synergy bothers me. This is a shame because I really love the concept!

 

Also, is there no limited FX version of Granite Armor? (I did not notice a power customization option for it). It's a bit of a turnoff to me, especially since it doesn't fit thematically with some of the alternate FX options for stone armor (lava and crystal).

[Zolgar]

I am fine with there not be a limited fx version of Granite. I can see why others would want it, but I feel that would kinda cheapen the stone set a little.

I would practically kill for a Quartz version of Granite though.

[Teirusu]

I've talked about /Stone Armor on the SCORE server in the past as well because, I too, really love the concept of /Stone Armor, however my idea.. didn't really go well with people.  I have since refined my idea a little bit since then and, perhaps, people here might think a little bit differently about it.

 

To give some background, back on Live, I had a level 50 Stone Melee/Stone Armor (Along with the same character as a 50 Tanker.  This was before we could just.. switch sides.  I gave up on the Tanker after that.)  I've also played several other brutes, including a level 50 SS/WP brute that I love to bits and whom is extremely tough in her own right with a pretty kited out build.  In terms of my re-leveling experience between the two characters on Homecoming, the only thing I felt lacking on the SS/WP was just damage until I got Footstomp as SS has no AOE until that time.  (Unless you grab cross-punch and/or spring attack)

 

Re-leveling my SM/Stone brute (Whom is now 48 with nearly my full planned IO build minus purple sets) was just.. yeah, everything that I remembered it to be back on Live.  Survivability was.. okay, compared to my SS/WP, but that, in-part, came from Fault being the awesome power that it is.  Thinking back and actually looking at the numbers in Pines, I'd say that /WP gets pretty comparable (mathwise) /DEF and /RES.  One gets an always-on (but smaller) HP boost, while /Stone gets Earth's Embrace.  What isn't comparable is the amount of regen /WP gets in comparison.  With just one mob in range, you quite a bit more HP/s then what /Stone gets while running Earth's Embrace. (Which is not perma with an SO build)  EE also heals you, yes, but the amount of healed HP you get is only worth the difference of about 30 seconds of /WP's extra regen with one 1 mob in range.  /WP nearly doubles it's regen with 10 mobs in range.  It also debuffs those mobs with a small, but still there -3.75% Tohit.

 

So, technically, until you get Granite, you're actually behind /WP in terms of survivability.  /Stone has nothing that helps you in a crowd of mobs like /WP does.  Rooted does give you some debuff resistances that /WP doesn't get which is nice but doesn't really warrant the debuffs that you get in exchange, especially in modern play.  While /Stone has decent END drain resistance, there's just nothing that helps it's large END requirements to run all of those toggles.  (Yet /Elec gets both END/Rec resistances along with END powers.)  Mudpots is especially nasty at 0.78 END/s (Verse 0.52 END/s for other damage auras, but it does have the slow/immob in it, although sometimes it feels like that part doesn't even work and mobs just run through it.)

 

There's also the other issues with the set, such as lots of toggle juggling that other people have mentioned.  Particularly if you actually want to pop in and out of Granite.  (And because of this, you actually are running an END discount while in Granite because you're running less toggles...  Which seems like a silly mechanic to me.)  You are, in fact, actively discouraged to not get out of Granite.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

With all of that being said, here are my actually ideas to improve /Stone without effecting the flavor or how the set works too much from what we have now.  Keep in mind, these are brute numbers I'll be suggesting since I'm more familiar with them.

 

1)  Strip 5.63% RES off Granite and give it Stone Skin.  As long as Stone Skin is slotted for the same RES enhancement as you would Granite you still get the same over-all amount of RES when in Granite.  You'll just have more RES when not in Granite.  Definitely helps the lower-end survivability while not changing high-end at all.  This also makes Stone Skin more comparable to High Pain Tolerance and True Grit.

 

2)  Rooted should definitely come sooner then Mudpots.  If we must keep the rooted debuff on it, then it should either be buffed in some way or part of the -runspeed debuff should be resistible.  (Or just flat reduce it) That gives another way we can build around the debuff, at least.  (Basically using Winter sets to resist some of the -slow debuff)  Although, in my humble opinion, I think if it had only the rooted part of the debuff but little or no -runspeed, then it would be about right.  It would be similar to the effect of Grounded.  -Runspeed, I feel, should just be mostly from Granite.

 

3)  In order to reduce toggle juggling and normalize END usage and basically give the set better QOL in it's handling I suggest this:  Make Granite, Crystal, and Brimstone Armor the only exclusive toggles of the set.  How would this work?

 

A)  Shave ALL of the S/L defense off Granite. (Yes, all 15%) and let Rock Armor stack on top.  Yes, you'll have less S/L defense because of this.  Yes, you'll use more END because of this.  But, what could you get in exchange, you ask?  Being able to run Minerals, if you want, on top of Granite.  I feel that's a pretty good trade-off.  Granite more-or-less stays the super-tank toggle and you now can get Psi DEF while in it.  You still wouldn't have Psi RES though.  Perhaps some toxic RES could be removed from it to further balance this, if needed?

 

B)  Since Crystal and Brimstone would be exclusive to each other.  Each can have a different theme to them.  Crystal could then be the tank-lite toggle.  Buff up it's numbers (Adding in DEF it doesn't have) and maybe even give it a PBAOE debuff aura like some of the other sets have.  Or give it extra END recovery or both?

 

C)  Brimstone could then be your Offensive-leaning armor toggle.  Buff its RES up minorly (Adding what it doesn't have), but have it boost the damage of Mudpots, or even give the Fiery Embrace mechanic, definitely seems in-theme.  Give it some slow resistance, even.  (Which could make you run faster if the -runspeed was kept on Rooted, but part of it was resistible.  Snergy~)

 

Effectively, this idea makes those 3 toggles into stance toggles:  Heavy Defensive (Granite with the heavy debuffs it already has), Light Defensive (Crystal with no debuffs and some buffs), Offensive. (Brimstone with less overall protection, but with more offensive abilities tacked onto it.)  Rock Armor and Minerals could always be used under those three, so you're only having to switch between those 3 toggles, with no toggles dropping.  Far simpler.  It's even better since you -wouldn't- have to take all three, if you didn't want too.  You'd have a choice in which ones you actually want to keep and use of those three armor toggles because they couldn't be used at the same time.  The cooldown on all three of the toggles could be increased for a further balance point, as well.

 

The only people I'd assume whom wouldn't like this change (And have a decent reason for it), are the ones whom do already layer Crystal and Brimstone together and like that look.  For them, couldn't alternate FX be added to give that layered look on either Crystal or Brimstone by themselves?

Edited July 26, 2019 by Teirusu
Minor grammar

[Hyperstrike]

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(15), Rct-ResDam%(34), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(34)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Hct-Acc/Rchg(36), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Hct-Dam%(37)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(5), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(5), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(7), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), ScrDrv-Dam%(13)
Level 6: Earth's Embrace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(45), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(45), Pnc-Heal(45)
Level 8: Mud Pots -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(13)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(33), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(43), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(43)
Level 14: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(25)
Level 18: Brimstone Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 22: Crystal Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(40)
Level 26: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(27)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(33)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 32: Teleport -- Range-I(A), Range-I(46)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 41: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Laser Beam Eyes -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(48), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(50)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A), Run-I(37), Run-I(46)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(37), Mrc-Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(42)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Melee Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Incandescence Radial Epiphany
------------

 

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[Golden Azrael]

On 7/25/2019 at 5:34 AM, Mr.Sinister said:

Why would you take multiples to 50 built to survive OUTSIDE of granite if you hate it so much.  

 

“Absolute garbage for 31/37 levels”

”I hate it more every time I play it”

”I am HATING leveling it right now”. 

 

I feel I addressed your comparisons to ice.   Having multiple lvl 50’s doesn’t mean a whole lot.  In this game anybody can fall down a flight of stairs and be lvl 50 before they hit the bottom.  I can really only go off of what you say about playing it.  Which is can’t this, can’t that.  I addressed those can nots with solutions available right now.  

 

I am sure you have many extremely capable toons built up with IO’s.  I wasn’t challenging your skill, more so challenging your playstyle.  There is a difference between player skill and build skill though.  A person can make an awesome build, and of course that toon will play awesome.  But a skilled player can squeak out performance with less.   When player skill can’t squeak, tanking ghost widow or recluse for example, granite picks up the slack.  

 

Hating it it so much and calling it trash outside of granite, why wouldn’t I assume you hit granite level and respec out of everything?   Just because you said you don’t?   Why would the opinion of somebody who does something multiple times, all while hating it so much, carry any weight.  What’s that definition of insanity?  Something something is the definition of insanity?  Nailed it!  

 

Who is it, Jack Nomind, who makes the no set builds?   That’s what I’m talking about.  That’s a man after my own heart right there.  Old school knowledge passed on.  Anybody who has read even small amounts on the forums can build a soft capped anything with IO’s.   If you want to homogenize everything just soft cap everything.  

 

The problem with stone armor is, even soft capped it still requires different play.  Or it breaks your softcap build mold and requires different sets and goals to play like all the other soft capped builds.  If you want all sets to play the same then stay away from the sets that require something different.  Let people who don’t want all their toons to play the same enjoy those sets.

 

Trick Shooter has been rallying for trick arrow for what, over a decade?   You know why his opinion is important?  Because he enjoys the set, doesn’t want it to change, and instead sees minor tweaks that it could use without changing what it does or how it plays .  If he hated it so much and wanted it changed, then his words too, would be lost in the chum bucket of Internet forums  

 

Learn to play, LOL.  Remove the -damage from granite.  And while we are at it, NERF REGEN!

Good post, that. 🙂

 

I thought my stone tanker was pretty tough.  Some alt appearance options would have been nice and the rooted slowness was a bit of a bind.  However, I take your point about play style being different.  eg.  You had to tp into a mob.  That circumvented the 'sllloooww' walk to aggro'.  Granite form seemed even slower.  But hey, I guess stone sentience would move slower.

 

A bit like those tree guys in Lord of the Rings. 😄

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

14 hours ago, Zolgar said:

I would practically kill for a Quartz version of Granite though.

*drool.

 

Azrael.

[Galaxy Brain]

41 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Good post, that. 🙂

 

I thought my stone tanker was pretty tough.  Some alt appearance options would have been nice and the rooted slowness was a bit of a bind.  However, I take your point about play style being different.  eg.  You had to tp into a mob.  That circumvented the 'sllloooww' walk to aggro'.  Granite form seemed even slower.  But hey, I guess stone sentience would move slower.

 

A bit like those tree guys in Lord of the Rings. 😄

 

Azrael.

I guess the difference nowadays is that even with modest slotting you can make builds that are as tough as stone without downsides or playstyle changes. Like, if you put in some slots to Willpower to bolster it to effectively be as tough as stone without downsides. Not softcap to everything, but legit be as tough. Why play stone outside of theme?

 

Galaxy Azrael

[Bjornalf]

On 7/25/2019 at 2:34 PM, Vadavim said:

Also, is there no limited FX version of Granite Armor? (I did not notice a power customization option for it). It's a bit of a turnoff to me, especially since it doesn't fit thematically with some of the alternate FX options for stone armor (lava and crystal).

There is no customization for Granite cause they took a shortcut when they made the power.. it basically replaces your character with a properly scaled DE Granite model.

[Leogunner]

On 7/25/2019 at 10:28 PM, Teirusu said:

I've talked about /Stone Armor on the SCORE server in the past as well because, I too, really love the concept of /Stone Armor, however my idea.. didn't really go well with people.  I have since refined my idea a little bit since then and, perhaps, people here might think a little bit differently about it.

 

To give some background, back on Live, I had a level 50 Stone Melee/Stone Armor (Along with the same character as a 50 Tanker.  This was before we could just.. switch sides.  I gave up on the Tanker after that.)  I've also played several other brutes, including a level 50 SS/WP brute that I love to bits and whom is extremely tough in her own right with a pretty kited out build.  In terms of my re-leveling experience between the two characters on Homecoming, the only thing I felt lacking on the SS/WP was just damage until I got Footstomp as SS has no AOE until that time.  (Unless you grab cross-punch and/or spring attack)

 

Re-leveling my SM/Stone brute (Whom is now 48 with nearly my full planned IO build minus purple sets) was just.. yeah, everything that I remembered it to be back on Live.  Survivability was.. okay, compared to my SS/WP, but that, in-part, came from Fault being the awesome power that it is.  Thinking back and actually looking at the numbers in Pines, I'd say that /WP gets pretty comparable (mathwise) /DEF and /RES.  One gets an always-on (but smaller) HP boost, while /Stone gets Earth's Embrace.  What isn't comparable is the amount of regen /WP gets in comparison.  With just one mob in range, you quite a bit more HP/s then what /Stone gets while running Earth's Embrace. (Which is not perma with an SO build)  EE also heals you, yes, but the amount of healed HP you get is only worth the difference of about 30 seconds of /WP's extra regen with one 1 mob in range.  /WP nearly doubles it's regen with 10 mobs in range.  It also debuffs those mobs with a small, but still there -3.75% Tohit.

 

So, technically, until you get Granite, you're actually behind /WP in terms of survivability.  /Stone has nothing that helps you in a crowd of mobs like /WP does.  Rooted does give you some debuff resistances that /WP doesn't get which is nice but doesn't really warrant the debuffs that you get in exchange, especially in modern play.  While /Stone has decent END drain resistance, there's just nothing that helps it's large END requirements to run all of those toggles.  (Yet /Elec gets both END/Rec resistances along with END powers.)  Mudpots is especially nasty at 0.78 END/s (Verse 0.52 END/s for other damage auras, but it does have the slow/immob in it, although sometimes it feels like that part doesn't even work and mobs just run through it.)

 

There's also the other issues with the set, such as lots of toggle juggling that other people have mentioned.  Particularly if you actually want to pop in and out of Granite.  (And because of this, you actually are running an END discount while in Granite because you're running less toggles...  Which seems like a silly mechanic to me.)  You are, in fact, actively discouraged to not get out of Granite.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

With all of that being said, here are my actually ideas to improve /Stone without effecting the flavor or how the set works too much from what we have now.  Keep in mind, these are brute numbers I'll be suggesting since I'm more familiar with them.

 

1)  Strip 5.63% RES off Granite and give it Stone Skin.  As long as Stone Skin is slotted for the same RES enhancement as you would Granite you still get the same over-all amount of RES when in Granite.  You'll just have more RES when not in Granite.  Definitely helps the lower-end survivability while not changing high-end at all.  This also makes Stone Skin more comparable to High Pain Tolerance and True Grit.

 

2)  Rooted should definitely come sooner then Mudpots.  If we must keep the rooted debuff on it, then it should either be buffed in some way or part of the -runspeed debuff should be resistible.  (Or just flat reduce it) That gives another way we can build around the debuff, at least.  (Basically using Winter sets to resist some of the -slow debuff)  Although, in my humble opinion, I think if it had only the rooted part of the debuff but little or no -runspeed, then it would be about right.  It would be similar to the effect of Grounded.  -Runspeed, I feel, should just be mostly from Granite.

 

3)  In order to reduce toggle juggling and normalize END usage and basically give the set better QOL in it's handling I suggest this:  Make Granite, Crystal, and Brimstone Armor the only exclusive toggles of the set.  How would this work?

 

A)  Shave ALL of the S/L defense off Granite. (Yes, all 15%) and let Rock Armor stack on top.  Yes, you'll have less S/L defense because of this.  Yes, you'll use more END because of this.  But, what could you get in exchange, you ask?  Being able to run Minerals, if you want, on top of Granite.  I feel that's a pretty good trade-off.  Granite more-or-less stays the super-tank toggle and you now can get Psi DEF while in it.  You still wouldn't have Psi RES though.  Perhaps some toxic RES could be removed from it to further balance this, if needed?

 

B)  Since Crystal and Brimstone would be exclusive to each other.  Each can have a different theme to them.  Crystal could then be the tank-lite toggle.  Buff up it's numbers (Adding in DEF it doesn't have) and maybe even give it a PBAOE debuff aura like some of the other sets have.  Or give it extra END recovery or both?

 

C)  Brimstone could then be your Offensive-leaning armor toggle.  Buff its RES up minorly (Adding what it doesn't have), but have it boost the damage of Mudpots, or even give the Fiery Embrace mechanic, definitely seems in-theme.  Give it some slow resistance, even.  (Which could make you run faster if the -runspeed was kept on Rooted, but part of it was resistible.  Snergy~)

 

Effectively, this idea makes those 3 toggles into stance toggles:  Heavy Defensive (Granite with the heavy debuffs it already has), Light Defensive (Crystal with no debuffs and some buffs), Offensive. (Brimstone with less overall protection, but with more offensive abilities tacked onto it.)  Rock Armor and Minerals could always be used under those three, so you're only having to switch between those 3 toggles, with no toggles dropping.  Far simpler.  It's even better since you -wouldn't- have to take all three, if you didn't want too.  You'd have a choice in which ones you actually want to keep and use of those three armor toggles because they couldn't be used at the same time.  The cooldown on all three of the toggles could be increased for a further balance point, as well.

 

The only people I'd assume whom wouldn't like this change (And have a decent reason for it), are the ones whom do already layer Crystal and Brimstone together and like that look.  For them, couldn't alternate FX be added to give that layered look on either Crystal or Brimstone by themselves?

Could also make the other powers apply different effects depending on which toggle stance you're using. Like you mentioned brimstone about giving mudpots a fiery embrace effect but how about just making earth's embrace also apply fiery embrace if using brimstone? Have the passive apply unique stuff too. 

[Teirusu]

12 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Could also make the other powers apply different effects depending on which toggle stance you're using. Like you mentioned brimstone about giving mudpots a fiery embrace effect but how about just making earth's embrace also apply fiery embrace if using brimstone? Have the passive apply unique stuff too. 

This isn't a bad idea, I just wouldn't want to over-complicate the job of whomever would need to commit all these changes and test them for balance issues.  The proposal I gave is a basic outline of what I think would simplify the set to people, making it easier to manage and be more streamlined. 

 

That being said, thinking about it a bit more, I think it be a great idea for those 3 toggles to have snergy with Earth's Embrace and Mudpots.  Earth's Embrace is, right now, just a Dull Pain clone so giving it something.. more that's in-theme with the set makes sense.  And, I already mentioned that /Stone Armor doesn't quite have a PBAOE debuff aura power that helps it survive more mobs that are around them.  Mud Pots only physically slows them and tries to immob them next to you, but this doesn't help you survive longer.

So, refining this idea a bit:

 

1)  Earth's Embrace and Mudpots would have no change while in Granite as this is already balanced, as is.  (We also wouldn't want to add any further debuffs as Granite already debuffs these powers due to its own debuffs of -Damage and -Recharge)

 

2)  For when in Crystal Armor, perhaps Earth's Embrace could give additional recovery?  Instead of Crystal Armor getting a PBAOE debuff itself, Mudpots instead could gain such debuff that helps with survivibility.  -Recharge, -Tohit, -Damage ?

 

3)  Thus, for when in Brimstone Armor, Earth's Embrace could grant a small damage bonus along with giving something additional to Mudpots, either more damage or just an END discount? 

 

Having the passive (Stone Skin) granting different effects for when one of the 3 toggles is running doesn't quite make as much sense.  Whatever those buffs might be, could just be easily given to the toggles themselves.  The only functional difference would be still getting those buffs while mezzed?

[Leogunner]

9 hours ago, Teirusu said:

Having the passive (Stone Skin) granting different effects for when one of the 3 toggles is running doesn't quite make as much sense.  Whatever those buffs might be, could just be easily given to the toggles themselves.  The only functional difference would be still getting those buffs while mezzed?

You right, I think the only main advantage of it would be slotting.  As is, your Stone Skin only takes resist enhancements but if it also gave +def or +health with another armor toggle, you've got 3 more slot opportunities if you decide to put extra slots into the power (assuming you only put 2-3 slots in the power currently).

 

[Voldine]

24 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

You right, I think the only main advantage of it would be slotting.  As is, your Stone Skin only takes resist enhancements but if it also gave +def or +health with another armor toggle, you've got 3 more slot opportunities if you decide to put extra slots into the power (assuming you only put 2-3 slots in the power currently).

 

One extra slot is all you need for the resist set +def uniques right now, unless you also slot it to mule the other resist set pieces that give psi resist...but that's what Brimstone is currently good for too.

[Leogunner]

24 minutes ago, Voldine said:

One extra slot is all you need for the resist set +def uniques right now, unless you also slot it to mule the other resist set pieces that give psi resist...but that's what Brimstone is currently good for too.

I was mainly talking about basic enhancements and basic IOs. 

[Voldine]

5 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I was mainly talking about basic enhancements and basic IOs. 

My bad. Nearly seven years later and my first instinct is to consider io bonuses before anything else with Stone to make up for the massive shortcomings and drawbacks to the set.

[Zepp]

Here's an idea, making Granite Armor a buff Toggle:

Rock Armor grants +Dmg

Stone Skin grants +Res (ABP)

Earth's Embrace grants +Absorb

Mud Pots +2mag immobilize

Rooted PBAoE -SPD -Recharge

Brimstone PBAoE HoT
Crystal +Res (DeBuff Res)

Minerals +Res (Fear)

 

Not set in stone, but I thought this might be good for a start...

[Megajoule]

On 7/30/2019 at 4:51 AM, Bjornalf said:

There is no customization for Granite cause they took a shortcut when they made the power.. it basically replaces your character with a properly scaled DE Granite model.

Which adds one more problem with the set, for those of us who actually like and put some effort into our costume(s):  we don't get to see them.  Activating our strongest toggle makes us look like every other Stone/* and just like any DE we may be fighting.

[Galaxy Brain]

On 8/2/2019 at 7:44 PM, Zepp said:

 

 

Not set in stone

hehehe

[Errants]

On 7/24/2019 at 11:34 PM, Mr.Sinister said:

Who is it, Jack Nomind, who makes the no set builds?   That’s what I’m talking about.  That’s a man after my own heart right there.  Old school knowledge passed on.  Anybody who has read even small amounts on the forums can build a soft capped anything with IO’s.   If you want to homogenize everything just soft cap everything.  

Necro tangent - his builds are actually kinda wonky, though a good start. He tends to underslot for critical enhancement.

[Replacement]

I understand this treads close to Ad Hominem territory but I gotta be honest, here:

 

If you don't regularly play Stone Armor and love it, I really don't want to hear your opinion on why it shouldn't be improved.  

 

If it were a known, well-performing set, I'd feel differently and I'd be willing to bring more nuanced logic to the table.  That's not the case, here.  You're just being difficult for no reason.

On 8/5/2019 at 1:23 AM, Eran Rist said:

Necro tangent - his builds are actually kinda wonky, though a good start. He tends to underslot for critical enhancement.

This is part of their charm.  They're intended to show a minimum viable product.  An absolute starting point for people who haven't begun to absorb the burden of knowledge of the game.   It would be most-excellent if someone else would start a series of intermediate builds that assume you do not have an influence sugar daddy and only a single handful of unique/global/set IOs.

 

[Errants]

On 8/6/2019 at 1:53 PM, Replacement said:

This is part of their charm.  They're intended to show a minimum viable product.  An absolute starting point for people who haven't begun to absorb the burden of knowledge of the game.   It would be most-excellent if someone else would start a series of intermediate builds that assume you do not have an influence sugar daddy and only a single handful of unique/global/set IOs.

Oh, I wasn't commenting on that, more the fact he heralds them as beginner builds, but doesn't slot/power choice leveling friendly, and insists on using level 50 commons, when 30's would be much more approachable, and a better analogue to SO build constraints.

 

If there's really an audience for both such beginner and intermediate slotting, I'm certain I could work up something on most any build/combo... my altitis is strong.

[DSorrow]

I wish something was done to Stone Armor. Right now it's one of those sets I have never played and just looking at its downsides, I have no intention playing either. While you can make an Invuln nearly as survivable as Stone (soft capped to all except psi, 70% Res to all) with a meaningful amount of +Rech on the side, it's impossible to make a Stone even close to as good as Invuln is offensively with all the -Dmg and -Rech. Second, there's the whole slow movement and being groundlocked unless you pick TP which isn't a fun gameplay mechanic. Finally, 4 powers out of 9 in the powerset are pretty much useless except as set mules the moment you get Granite Armor, after which you also start being unable to affect your character design.

 

Yeah, Stone definitely needs some downsides to offset the insane survivability it gets out of the box, but right now those downsides are far too big, especially when we consider survivability potential of other powersets with IOs. I'd start with reducing the -Jump from Rooted and Granite so that you could jump over small obstacles, making the -Speed (and potentially the -Rech) resistable, and severely reducing the -Dmg from Granite.

[LateNights]

Just give us Granite as our tier 1 power and swap everything else back one (Minerals end up as the tier 9) - it'll still be balanced by slots & enhancements & the inherent negatives of Granite, and at least allow stoners to actually perform as the premier Tank until everyone else has surpassed us in the later part of the leveling experience...

 

The way the game is now, by the time we've finally achieved Granite it has already become redundant because IO builds are a thing, and often feels more like we're slowing the team down than keeping them rolling through the slog to 50 - and that's after we've suffered through the worst parts of the set!

 

However, changing Granite too much just makes them more cookie-cutter Tank than anything else (they really should be the odd man out just to add some flavour to the game) - having the full Granite experience come in the early game won't hurt anyone long term though.

[Megajoule]

Wouldn't giving out Granite at tier 1 make the rest of the set useless?

"Here's your power, singular - next level you get Rooted, and then the next thirty levels are powers you'll never actually use."

[Cementi]

Pretty happy with Stone Armor myself but some tweaks wouldn't hurt.

To me the only REAL problem is the run speed in rooted. I could even live with the no jump. Just remove the run speed debuff. That would make the set much more fun to play.