An Update from The Homecoming Team

[Abraxus]

8 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

You'll forgive me if I see no reason whatsoever to trust a company that's already stabbed us in the back once.

Except that it's literally 7 years later, and most of the folks at that company are very likely no longer there, or have moved in to other things since then.  Plus, until just a couple of months ago, they had all the advantage.  The game was dead, and they saw no real reason to bring it back.  Since then, the game code has become an infinite resource, meaning that anyone with a little knowledge can bring up their own server, if they wish.  So, they might see it as an opportunity to capitalize on a situation that would be easier to legitimize, than to spend resources chasing down, and playing whack-a-mole for all the servers that will pop-up out there.  There is a certain logic to it, even from a corporate perspective.  I'm sure they'd go the latter route if given no other choice, but here, in this situation, they have a choice.  They are weighing that choice against their other alternative, and what comes of it could be as simple as they just agree to leave things here alone, and give their blessing on future changes made by the Devs, so long as they remain non-profit.

So, trust?  Well, I'm not sure I completely trust any large entity whose very existence revolves around the money to be made from their particular product(s).  But, when something is in their best interest, or at least not completely against it, potentially good things can happen.

 

[Murcielago]

There are so many negative people on this post. I get realism but damn, some of y'all should quit your jobs and write spy novels.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Murcielago

[MunkiLord]

3 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

Hahahahahaha ....  You are incredibly naive if you think NCSoft won't stomp CoH into the dirt all over again at the slightest excuse.  All this negotiation does is give them an easy vector to squash the whole thing at once.

How do the negotiations make this any easier for NCSoft to squash anything? All it will take is a C&D to the hosting company and the servers are gone. Nothing about this makes that any easier or harder.

[starro]

5 hours ago, GM Capocollo said:

There's been one bigger update, a few small updates, and continuing progress on the beta client since that update you mentioned.

and then BOOM release notes for HC Beta today of all days....and here I thought people were laying extra low and not updating homecoming while this NCsoft talk unfolds...

 

 

 

 

[Black Zot]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

So, trust?  Well, I'm not sure I completely trust any large entity whose very existence revolves around the money to be made from their particular product(s).  But, when something is in their best interest, or at least not completely against it, potentially good things can happen.

 

 

CoH and its studio were turning a solid profit over its last year, even with another project going on in the background that was leeching some of its revenue.  It was in NCSoft's best interest to leave well enough alone.  They didn't.  

 

"Best interest" isn't part of the decision-making tree here. 

 

Just now, MunkiLord said:

How do the negotiations make this any easier for NCSoft to squash anything? All it will take is a C&D to the hosting company and the servers are gone. Nothing about this makes that any easier or harder.

 

Same way they almost wiped the game out 7 years ago: use the "legit" server to concentrate everything in one place so they can kill the thing with one bullet instead of half a dozen.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Black Zot said:

 

Same way they almost wiped the game out 7 years ago: use the "legit" server to concentrate everything in one place so they can kill the thing with one bullet instead of half a dozen.

How would that work? So if they strike a deal with the HC team does that mean all the other servers magically disappear? Do they start sending out notices to them after the deal is made? Wait for them to die off on their own? Either way your version sounds like more work and more time when NCSoft could copy and paste some text then send out emails and/or letters to various hosting companies right now and do the same thing. And it would take less time which means they spend less money.

[Hells_Hound]

AWESOME NEWS!  I also would be willing to support some sort of income model to help keep this awesome game up-and-running, especially if it resulted in attracting some programming talent and a team to develop new content!  Keep it coming, guys!  CoH FOREVER!!!

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, Black Zot said:

 

CoH and its studio were turning a solid profit over its last year, even with another project going on in the background that was leeching some of its revenue.  It was in NCSoft's best interest to leave well enough alone.  They didn't.

The "solid profit" was a joke and 'chump change' in terms of their global business.  Sure, it was making a profit, but so small that it wasn't an enticement to them.

 

Are you familiar with the business concept of 'return on investment' or ROI?  If they were putting $1 million a year (random number) into the game to get 5% profit and they could put that money into a game running in South Korea for a 10% profit, that is a complete no-brainer decision to dump the lower profit potential game.  In such a situation, it is absolutely NOT in NCSoft's best interest to leave well enough alone.

[Ago]

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

The "solid profit" was a joke and 'chump change' in terms of their global business.  Sure, it was making a profit, but so small that it wasn't an enticement to them.

 

Are you familiar with the business concept of 'return on investment' or ROI?  If they were putting $1 million a year (random number) into the game to get 5% profit and they could put that money into a game running in South Korea for a 10% profit, that is a complete no-brainer decision to dump the lower profit potential game.  In such a situation, it is absolutely NOT in NCSoft's best interest to leave well enough alone.

Making profitability assertions in one direction (it was profitable) or another (it was wasting money) is honestly conjecture coming out of any of us. 

 

1) Unless it was part of the leaked info and I'm not aware of it, we don't know their business plan.  If there's a source, I'm alright to be proven wrong.
2) Even with 1 in mind, the WOW-Killer assertions in sales talk fall flat as Blizzard has bested any competition, so being #1 in the MMO scene is nonsense.  It was true then, it's less true today as the landscape has changed greatly since 2012.  (Even if WOW is easier to defeat now, MMO Games aren't doing anywhere as big in sales volume today as they did in the past.)  So it's safe to assume that isn't the metric of "success". 
3) NCSoft never published sub numbers or "actuals" (amounts in sales) for COH before the shutdown.  Absent of a business plan, that would be the best way to make any inference towards success or failure.  But we're left with guesses as to what part of the "Other Revenue" pie belongs to COH.

[Black Zot]

7 hours ago, Ironblade said:

 

Are you familiar with the business concept of 'return on investment' or ROI?  

 

I'm familiar enough to know that 10% ROI is pie-in-the-sky territory for most ventures.

[Calamity Cain]

11 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

You'll forgive me if I see no reason whatsoever to trust a company that's already stabbed us in the back once.

Listen, I'm pretty ignorant on how Live got shutdown; I left close to a year before it all happened. I can see there's plenty of animosity about it, and no wonder. This game means a lot to us. But I see two problems with this bitterness I'm getting from your comments:

 

1) You're assuming spitefulness before stupidity, and it should be the other way around. Yeah a bunch of you got rubbed raw by what happened, and given NCSoft's lack of explanation, you're prone to fill in the blanks yourself. But to assume they "stabbed us in the back", an accusation of malevolence, smacks more of projection on your part. It seems more likely that it was one of many decisions made for reasons we can't rightly place without speculation, and just because you're personally offended doesn't mean the decision to pull the plug was personal, even if you'd prefer it that way.

 

2) Furthermore, if you believe wholeheartedly that NCSoft is just raring for another chance to betray you, perhaps you should think twice about enjoying Homecoming at all. Seriously, the people who are dumping their heart and soul into keeping this game afloat (without pay) are willing to try. What are you doing? You reap the benefits of these people's hard work by playing for free, only to mouth off with glee about how ill-fated their efforts are? That's vile, and you should be ashamed. You wouldn't even be here without the Homecoming team, so be a little more respectful while you still enjoy the fruits of their labor.

[Xeres]

15 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

Hahahahahaha ....  You are incredibly naive if you think NCSoft won't stomp CoH into the dirt all over again at the slightest excuse.  All this negotiation does is give them an easy vector to squash the whole thing at once.

I think if NcSoft wanted stomping to be done it would have started already.  If these negotiations or whatever fall through then maybe it happens anyway.  I feel it's better to engage NcSoft and work out something (that doesn't suck) than hoping NcSoft just sits on their hands and did nothing.

[Abraxus]

Always better to know exactly where the hammer will fall, than to worry about if/when it will fall.  Not knowing, or anticipating the worst is downright maddening.  Why wouldn't you want to know for sure.  I see these talks as the only way to have that knowledge. 

 

I, for one, feel better knowing that if this works out, that worry goes away for good, and we can just relax, play, and look forward to all the good stuff to come.

[justicebeliever]

Here's what I want to know...how do I get the corporation mind reading power (knowing what NCSoft will or won't do)?  It seem like it would be a handy temp power to have against the Crey...

[Freedom Frank]

13 hours ago, Black Zot said:

Same way they almost wiped the game out 7 years ago: use the "legit" server to concentrate everything in one place so they can kill the thing with one bullet instead of half a dozen.

If that's what they wanted before pulling the trigger, they could have done so already.  Homecoming is the vast, vast majority of the CoH revival population.  Like, we're talking 95%+ of the total player count.  It's not going to get much better a target than that.  I mean, unless you think they won't go for it until 100% of the pop is on Homecoming, in which case rest easy!  Because it'll never happen.

[Abraxus]

1 hour ago, justicebeliever said:

Here's what I want to know...how do I get the corporation mind reading power (knowing what NCSoft will or won't do)?  It seem like it would be a handy temp power to have against the Crey...

In the absence of fact, the vacuum fills with supposition, conjecture, speculation, and out-and-out guessing.  The hope is that, at least some of it uses some historical data, similar situations, logic, and business sense to make the best of a situation where we have no conclusive facts with which to work.  But, it's all we have at the moment. 

 

For me, the bottom line is that we have a chance for legitimizing the Homecoming server, which will go a long way towards alleviating the fears harbored by all regarding its future in the current state of things.  For others, if this is successful, and the server is legitimized, that might give them more cause for concern, because of their unshakable distrust of NCSoft.  For them, I'm not sure there is a real solution, but I feel like the folks that fall into that category are a small percentage of the player base here.

 

The only thing we do know for sure is that the talks are happening, and what the goals are.  Beyond that, we are all just waiting to hear what parts of our hopes, and aspirations are confirmed; and which (if any) of our greatest fears could be realized.  But, that is life in a nutshell, so there ya go...

Edited August 12, 2019 by Abraxus

[justicebeliever]

@AbraxusI'm trusting HC on this one...they say they have a good deal in the works, I have no major reason to doubt them...Personally, I think it was @MunkiLord who suggested that NCSoft want's to do some risk free trial marketing, and that seems the most plausible scenario, given the facts...

 

I find it funny that all the doomsayers feel they have an inside track into the very corporate consciousness of NCSoft...that's the temp power I want...

 

So to be 100% clear, I'm on the side of trusting this will work out, mostly because being a skeptic doesn't have any upside - I have no risk and no control here, so might as well enjoy what I am doing instead of fretting about it...

[Abraxus]

Just now, justicebeliever said:

@AbraxusI'm trusting HC on this one...they say they have a good deal in the works, I have no major reason to doubt them...Personally, I think it was @MunkiLord who suggested that NCSoft want's to do some risk free trial marketing, and that seems the most plausible scenario, given the facts...

 

I find it funny that all the doomsayers feel they have an inside track into the very corporate consciousness of NCSoft...that's the temp power I want...

 

So to be 100% clear, I'm on the side of trusting this will work out, mostly because being a skeptic doesn't have any upside - I have no risk and no control here, so might as well enjoy what I am doing instead of fretting about it...

I agree with all of that! 👆

[Remidi]

I agree that 'stabbing in the heart' is too personal and ascribing malice where there wasn't any.  Back when the live game folded, this was going around, and I think it perfectly describes the situation.  NCSoft blithely thought that, like some other game communities, we would go chase the latest new shiney.  They seriously underestimated the depth of feeling of the CoH fanbase.

 

 

[Unruly]

8 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

I'm familiar enough to know that 10% ROI is pie-in-the-sky territory for most ventures.

Historically 10% roi has always been sort of a cut off number.  Most large corporations will not invest in a capital project that does not project 30% roi.  For an entire company or division, most would historically divest anything that fell below 10% roi unless there was some projection that this would be temporary. When a division falls to 10% is when you find a smaller investor to take it off your hands.  A 10% roi business is OK for a smaller company to keep.  In recent years, the cost of money has been historically cheap and so even a 10% business can produce a 5% or 6% return after the cost of money, but as the costs of loans increase, these numbers look worse and worse.  The value of a business is always a function of it's return as compared to just buying treasury bonds.

[JCMcBoo]

2 hours ago, Remidi said:

I agree that 'stabbing in the heart' is too personal and ascribing malice where there wasn't any.  Back when the live game folded, this was going around, and I think it perfectly describes the situation.  NCSoft blithely thought that, like some other game communities, we would go chase the latest new shiney.  They seriously underestimated the depth of feeling of the CoH fanbase.

 

 

 

Please stop! I am at work and I don't want people to see me cry!

 

[Black Zot]

8 hours ago, Calamity Cain said:

 You reap the benefits of these people's hard work by playing for free, only to mouth off with glee about how ill-fated their efforts are? 

 

Now who's projecting?  There's no glee at all in what I'm saying.  Only disgust that so many people are willing to take the snake at its word that it won't bite.

[GM Capocollo]

Okay, we can stop the dramatic monologuing.

[Widower]

34 minutes ago, JCMcBoo said:

 

Please stop! I am at work and I don't want people to see me cry!

 

It's okay. The game is back.

[JCMcBoo]

2 minutes ago, GM Widower said:

It's okay. The game is back.

I know and thank you for bringing us home because it really was a wrench. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by JCMcBoo