Proc Monsters - Controller Edition

SmalltalkJava · August 19, 2019

I think a -res in a toggle would generally be worth it. 1 slot to increase the damage across the board. I'm speaking in generalities of course.

Hjarki · August 19, 2019

6 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I'm now trying out nerve alpha because it seems silly to waste slots on acc enhancements when you could put more procs into a power. Between nerve and set bonuses you shouldn't need acc slotting. Also boosts defense a bit saving more slots in the build for proc potential.

Musculature/Intuition are going to add probably 20% to your damage. Since all you're doing with Nerve is slotting another non-purple proc, it's unlikely that you'll make up the shortfall.

Frosticus · August 19, 2019

3 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Musculature/Intuition are going to add probably 20% to your damage. Since all you're doing with Nerve is slotting another non-purple proc, it's unlikely that you'll make up the shortfall.

20% to what damage though? the vast majority of my aoe damage is being generated through non damage or low damage powers. Procs already make up nearly 70% of my aoe damage output between poison trap (6 procs), carrion creepers (5 procs), fissure (5 procs), envenom (3 procs), seeds (4 procs) and roots (5 procs). The switch to nerve allowed me to reallocate 8 slots throughout the build due to not needing to slot acc. It allowed an addition proc in nearly every power that i use.

I'll post a herostats damage report from a farm map tmw.

Sir Myshkin · August 19, 2019

Test #2: Earth Control/Dark Miasma/Stone Mastery

Alright folks, its been a few days since the last test I dropped, so here we go. First I want you all to answer a question in your mind before I get into this: Do you think Earth Control is weak from a damage aspect? Yes or No. Hold on to that thought.

I talked about the different aspects I'd be targeting in the preliminary post, and I've finally had time to roll around into testing out what Earth and Stone would provide as potential proc fodder. I've come back with some interesting things to talk about, some unexpected results, and some rather amusing ones as well.

Stalagmites

This was kind of just a 'proof of concept' for this power. I hadn't actually said "Yeah, I tested procs in [that] power." All the sets have very similar long-range fired targeted AoE, figured I should make sure it didn't have any quirks. I didn't. And honestly, I was rather pleased with it being a decent burst damage opener with just the ATO Proc and Posi in it.

Earthquake

Bad news bears are about to walk in on this one. I ran this power on loop over and over for five minutes and I only got to see one trigger of Achilles Heel, and it did what Rain powers do, disappeared within a flash of its existence. I have no idea why, and the game didn't feedback any other recordings of it ticking off. I also didn't get any damage procs off on it.

I did, however, get pretty consistent procs off of FF+Rech, which was pretty awesome. So great there. Gets to save some slots!

Fun note: The game reports this in the combat log as "Ice Slick." Hmm. 🤔

Hurl Boulder

I took this more as filler, but also to mildly test it as well, and I was actually pretty surprised. With a base recharge of 10/s, and an animation 2.5/s long, this thing gets close to the cap of probability and fired off its procs pretty regularly. Super awesome and would probably be worth a couple more slots in a situation of lacking ST attacks with fun flair. I kinda feel like the 2x+Dam and the FF+Rech make up for its long animation.

Heck, who am I kidding, take the power!

Volcanic Gasses

This power, this power, this power. Kinda like Poison Trap if you can keep the mobs in the patch. Something a little different here is that I tossed in the -Res proc, and just like Earthquake, it was a ghost in the machine. I saw this one pop up twice in total, and both times they flashed and disappeared. Damage wise, however, the procs seemed to be fairly consistent, so I absolutely don't have an explanation there other than "do I need a larger sample test? Or does this proc in certain powers just not 'work' right?"

Volcanic does okay damage on its own. If the procs didn't go off at all, then I probably wouldn't even consider relying on VG otherwise, but for an AoE effect, they followed expected protocol. With there being four in the power, and having a 60/s duration (6 ticks), it was worth dropping for the 1.32/s animation time. Even if I only got 4 or 5 hits, that (and its own damage) were enough to make it a valid attack choice even in ST focus.

Fun note: The game reports this as Voltaic Sentinel, and then also occasionally Voltaic Geyser. Has me curious how this power is coded and if that explains why the -Res proc doesn't 'work'. 🤔

Fissure

I forgot to pull a sample clip of this things routine kick-back, but I have nothing but good things to say about this power. The Annihilation proc did seem to be a bit hard-core about a 10/s duration, I couldn't seem to get it to extend the duration, just kept cutting off at 10/s regardless if the proc notified it went off. I know this because I saw the trigger, and then a second later the effect wore off, which was 10/s from when it originally triggered. I've never noticed Achilles doing this, and this is the first power I've dropped Annihilation -Res into that's been able to recharge fast enough to reapply with considerable speed. I had a FF+Rech in the power, which proc'd pretty consistently, and between that and Ageless (depending on which stage I was in), this thing was bouncing back in >5/s. Pretty much if FF+Rech went off, its 5/s duration was long enough to carry Fissure to recycle (5.6/s under +!00%).

I want to point out that this is technically a T-AoE, and I got really good returns on impact despite that. So much so that I still included using it as an attack in my Pylon attempt. I'm curious if this power is actually a ST attack with a splash caused by a Pseudo Pet. Not speculating on effect in the game, mostly just curious how the devs set up powers like this to work, and if their overall effect changed how they applied it. Not every swing of this power resulted in a proc, but I feel like it definitely averaged out to be 2 of the 4 on the regular. Plus I had FF+Rech dropped in there which gave me the occasional spike too.

Seismic Smash

Alright, lets all admit we came here for this attack. It hits hard on its own, it takes a bucket load of procs, it gets containment, and Controllers get the chance to really feel that crunchy smash!

I think this will kind of speak for itself as a random sample:

Spoiler

You activated the Seismic Smash power.
Your Seismic Smash deals a whopping 105.68 points of smashing Damage to Rikti Pylon.
Your Seismic Smash deals a whopping 105.68 points of smashing Damage to Rikti Pylon.
Rikti Pylon is knocked unconscious and held by your Seismic Smash!
Rikti Pylon takes 57.39 points of bonus psionic damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Lethal damage!
You blast Rikti Pylon for 85.66 points of bonus negative energy damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Smashing damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Lethal damage!
Seismic Smash is recharged.
You activated the Seismic Smash power.
Your Seismic Smash deals a whopping 105.68 points of smashing Damage to Rikti Pylon.
Your Seismic Smash deals a whopping 105.68 points of smashing Damage to Rikti Pylon.
Rikti Pylon is knocked unconscious and held by your Seismic Smash!
Rikti Pylon takes 57.39 points of bonus psionic damage!
You blast Rikti Pylon for 85.66 points of bonus negative energy damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Smashing damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Lethal damage!

526.58 Damage?! And we thought Dominate hit hard! That was performed against a Pylon with no active debuffs. Toss a double Tar Patch and an Annihilation proc in there, and that one single attack is crushing. Absolutely crushing.

Originally Tested Build

Since there came about things that warranted being changed due to the results I got back testing these powers, here is what the original build was, and I'll also add a modified build that corrects the things that didn't come back positive.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Earth Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fossilize -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(13), Apc-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(27), UnbCns-Dam%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(3), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(5), Acc-I(7)
Level 2: Stone Cages -- Rgn-Knock%(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Rgn-Dmg(37), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(37), PstBls-Dam%(40)
Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Stalagmites -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(31), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(36), PstBls-Dam%(36)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A), PstBls-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(15)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 18: Earthquake -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31), TchofLadG-%Dam(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(40), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), HO:Ribo(48)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Volcanic Gasses -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(43), GldNet-Dam%(43), Ann-ResDeb%(45), PstBls-Dam%(50)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 32: Animate Stone -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Hurl Boulder -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), ExpStr-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 41: Fissure -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(42), ExpStr-Dam%(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%(42), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hct-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Quicksand -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1546;737;1474;HEX;|
		|78DA65544B4F1351149E572D2D455AA65028146879B4B4501844DD6994575030242|
		|46EC904A6B452A7643A2492A8118D7F808DFF8000262E8D2E8D6BFF810BF199F882|
		|688CBA30F574CE57DAA4934EBE7BBE7B5EF79B73BB706BCAF76476FBA220FA27F37|
		|AB1B83C59306DAB90CF1B96FB9A6E6F5A7A5E283F6E7A7BAB7B15B7F4B46ED9D98A|
		|15AD71B8BC99C9A4A7746BDD3428EBA54C2667E6ECADC09C99352CC3B4D39545F36|
		|281D2CC1BFAAA6115B3B98D26C79EC9AD65ED9CB9E675ACA50DC358F5F1B260AD18|
		|D656CBF4466E25BD64174C6379412FDA44B55387297A6F8B029E924BB84986A608B|
		|E1B404D72303C2D3BD835C776D730DB6F4235B1BDCC495DC008A3D20DEC613C1526|
		|77CD23DCA1122262C5F39CD77B8EB17D82B17F1C789631FE4C70F090EACA1C2BC82|
		|9CE1720C95DE05CADDCBFE4E62F51E6DC618E7D4BB11EA77049F44439D60BBC477C|
		|237A6A3CE07EBB77817B8CD17DC6BEC740F4F48EF23671ACD4849E4E63EFF42E258|
		|E28C27BF269E6DAAE66F4E80F02FD8C2DBF386FCB1FC6B6AB8CDBB41DE0FC72E005|
		|E9A1524F0F5997BE57D0698BF90F5447451D15758201D1E929382B3BD8A6B21DFFC|
		|DF6E83FC1E95126C15A39566A1DE7DAA321EE7FF402D18A2CC4C827040D43386B3B|
		|F03EF11DD0B043E7B830E62989F94A629E863F316AD0E923F5DDE94C4549E8443E9|
		|56A45B89610D9931CEE01D93DA8D173C467EFFD01FC093C668C4E020F3187942F86|
		|F3C5A04D5C65D4F00DBE90EB00B41E38501C6E10DA0E62F607A1FD573213E825817|
		|30CE15C438819826FF239E71A7ECAF8D7C777B01C9BDAC15E8A7D47A0D5C8326DC7|
		|0913D06A9DBFD35DDA4E63B6D398AF3E3ADB18B8B1D7B8ABCAC91DA51F3D65C70A5|
		|34AD6ED8ED5315A1D73A68E99A863E6EB9845E5E4C60BA2C378FC27F7B8F4CD4BBB|
		|F8CEE208EB7854E524318AFF8FEBAC4BC315D1D1E57B6D5C82E38EAB9C28EEB00E0|
		|D8F18159A318DF74A3335EBCFFDD5F5BE4A6BF4F532565D7704AB3EFF01CDE2FA5B|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

And the updated build post-test:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Earth Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fossilize -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(13), Apc-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(27), UnbCns-Dam%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(3), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(5), Acc-I(7)
Level 2: Stone Cages -- Rgn-Knock%(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Rgn-Dmg(37), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(37), PstBls-Dam%(37)
Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 8: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Stalagmites -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(31), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(36), PstBls-Dam%(36)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A), PstBls-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(15)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 18: Earthquake -- RechRdx-I(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Ksm-ToHit+(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(40)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), HO:Ribo(48)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 26: Volcanic Gasses -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(43), GldNet-Dam%(43), PstBls-Dam%(50)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Animate Stone -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Hurl Boulder -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), ExpStr-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(45), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Fissure -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(42), ExpStr-Dam%(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%(42), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hct-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1546;736;1472;HEX;|
		|78DA65945B4F135110C7F7564B4B91962D140A055A6EA585C222EA9B46B90505434|
		|2E22BD9C09656EA966C9744124D44E317E0C56F4000131F8D3EFB357C10954BBC41|
		|34467D3075BAFF296DD24D37BF73E6CCFC6776CE399D7F30E97B39B3755D10FD133|
		|9BD50589AC89BB695CFE50CCB7D47B7372C3D27941E37BDDD95B5B25B6A4AB7EC4C|
		|7916AD72B8B9914EA726756BCD3448F5463A9D35B3F66660D6CC189661DAA9F2C0B|
		|B902799C575C358697086D3D9D58C9D35571B9DD99CA1AF185621935DF7C1316F2D|
		|1BD666D3D47A7639B568E74D63695E2FD8646AA50A93F43E14057E8A2EE13E4D344|
		|5F0DD636A92C3F094ECB06316F38E21CCDF87AA62BB61933A981150E964768117C2|
		|E4AE7984479442E458F12A74BD57C0D671B0778C7999F95A7078407965C40A72127|
		|A316AB9CB112C8A2EB6B532253776A4E4EF0E43E3036978D8DF13859F97F998ECF5|
		|5C5BFD3EEAEEDC61EE82D13DB0E705936BFB48BA0D88951A38FF455EBBB843C2114|
		|5F8443E8DC8ED6A6C46AFFD41A61F6CFA05DDA63F60CB6D708B9603D0170349E876|
		|3E437F0E4957655D95758301D1A92138233B6C5131EFF92738B50CFC865DA606352|
		|3566A1E43AE9110EA1DB94666451614F209B14F88F5075450E3BA9F10DA509FD2A6|
		|233ECCE729C1E72BC1E749E3BE1C51DDEDCE69280AEDDCB300E58AF09E4538D7534|
		|217EF4BD729BEB9FB07F327F30C8C4E300F90EB0B21865839B6AF38B6FE4DF25189|
		|7C9EFBB98F27544F1FFBF69D48E8D3313874088E1C815F2934CE35C5F97B068FA13|
		|7C8FA83AC9B7883BC43AFC0BF3EDCC1526C729BD792F01DE65E0D2FD1F20031CE3D|
		|5BC3BEA9D49F14F64248ED4AD853B28D72CF46DFF15D55CEEF28FDE82905972DC54|
		|4CDEA688D45ABB15CAAB18CD758E66A2C0BCAF98D1744C7E2F19FDFE3E2372FADF2|
		|F788C3E8E369C5268951FEFFB88BBED4DD129DBE7CAF8E8B23EEAC6213C56DF4A1E|
		|E39A8D0DE6A582B4E578D3FF756C67B2A8DB9AEB7B1CAB82D58F1F90F0A12FB0A|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Yeah the only primary goal was to get Dark Servant back into the build, I kinda missed his ugly mug.

So why did I ask you to think about Earth's damage potential?

For years everyone always had complaints about Ice and Earth as being sub-par for damage compared to the other sets. I wanted everyone to hone in on that fact before going into the obvious that I did, of course, try and take this against a Pylon. The biggest thing about being a Proc Monster is whether procs take a mediocre or lack-luster set and give it impact, or even a good set and pushes it over the edge.

Did you answer no?

Would you change your mind if I told you I took down a Pylon under the 'Standard Rules of Engagement'?

T4 Intuition Radial and Ageless Core. I forgot to actually slot in Interface before hand because its procing interferes with my normal testing and I hadn't put it in before I so hurriedly bashed on a Pylon. Given that, this time quite definitely can be improved. Further enhance Hurl Boulder, or determine how much impact Fissure fully had, as I know I was favoring it when I probably shouldn't have, and add Dark Servant back into the mix. Fluffy may not be a lot of damage, but he's better than not having him.

The video starts exactly when Stony tosses a rock at the Pylon, which was before I got to toss down Darkest Night or really much of anything else, but did have Fade/Hasten/Ageless popped before we came around the corner. The Pylon pops at 4:58.

I think that's pretty good for being "the worst damaging set."

Some other Responses (Consolidating Replies)

8 hours ago, Tater Todd said:

Such a shame. I guess there's no point of slotting Procs in toggles anymore 😕 I gathered as much but I was hoping someone who is far more versed in coh game knowledge and math could prove me wrong.

I wouldn't say that in the slightest. Toggles run on a 10/s activation period which isn't any different that patches dropped from T-AoE or L-AoE effects with durations. They still cycle on a given time window, and can still do really good for what they are. Some better than others, but it really comes down to a playstyle choice on whether you were running the power anyway, and what value it ultimately has.

11 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I'm now trying out nerve alpha because it seems silly to waste slots on acc enhancements when you could put more procs into a power. Between nerve and set bonuses you shouldn't need acc slotting. Also boosts defense a bit saving more slots in the build for proc potential.

Nerve might help a small focus area of things, but the bigger impact of something like Intuition isn't just in Damage, but also Range, and in some cases -ToHit increases, there's a lot that Alpha actually does for a wide spread of relevant builds. But the biggest is making it so all those other abilities that were only getting 2-3 slots to shove in Acc/Dam/End were still able to get a reasonable value in on Damage before they fell short of even their most basic abilities. Tactics and a Kismet IO easily fix a lot of other accuracy woes, so if you really wanted to push your luck, there's probably the best way to do it.

natewest1987 · August 19, 2019

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I ran with your early notes on electric/dark and mostly got my butt kicked in +2/8 fire maps, lol.

subbacultchas · August 19, 2019

Love your writeup of Elec/Dark. I have one sitting at 50, that just sits there because before all this proc discussion the damage is just abysmal. Although it's a very durable character, I struggled to solo until 30s and even then it was rough until Epic PPs. I'm really happy to see someone do something with it that I couldn't at the time.

Frosticus · August 19, 2019

16 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Nerve might help a small focus area of things, but the bigger impact of something like Intuition isn't just in Damage, but also Range, and in some cases -ToHit increases, there's a lot that Alpha actually does for a wide spread of relevant builds. But the biggest is making it so all those other abilities that were only getting 2-3 slots to shove in Acc/Dam/End were still able to get a reasonable value in on Damage before they fell short of even their most basic abilities. Tactics and a Kismet IO easily fix a lot of other accuracy woes, so if you really wanted to push your luck, there's probably the best way to do it.

I originally thought similar and I would agree about intuition if I were making a generalist controller. But, we are talking about proc focused builds. A proc outweighs a damage enhancement if it provides more avg damage boost to the power. Or if said proc has additional utility that may outweigh said damage enhancement in the overall build.

You don't need endurance slotting because a proc build uses ageless. And you don't need acc slotting because you use nerve. So any extra slot gets a +5 purple dam IO, or the next best thing for said power.

I have 6 aoe focused powers:

poison trap - ideally i'd put over 10 procs in here...

fissure - 5 procs that are of high value

roots - 6 procs i'd like to have, 5 for sure

seeds - 4 procs

envenom - 3 procs

creepers - 5-6 procs

I have 3 st focused powers:

strangler - 5 procs

paralytic - 4 procs

seismic smash - 7 procs i'd like to have. 4-5 for sure

The only power in that list that deals significant enough base damage to really want to ensure it is enhanced is seismic smash. Roots does decently with dam enhancing too, and procs at a low rate, but a standard proc is of more value until roughly the 3rd casting (assuming 1st is uncontained and next two are contained). I prefer the burst nature of the procs rather than whitling them down. Dead minions/luts are zero threat.

-tohit is of questionable value against +3/4's unless in very large doses plus weaken is small aoe and venomous gas is low value -tohit. +range is of questionable value to poison as you want to leverage venomous gas.

Sir Myshkin · August 20, 2019

Test #3: Gravity Control (w/ Time/Primal backbone)

Two tests in 24 hours! Giving a ton of content update here just because Gravity is/was honestly a pretty straight forward "Did all this work? Yup, cool, moving on." I probably spent more time leveling/building it versus testing it.

This really came down to more of a test on a couple of features I personally wanted to verify, get a range limiter on, and see what happens. Gravity has a lot of proc potential, so the biggest thing was seeing how much could be crammed into a single build too. Time I felt might be the most flexible, and I'd kinda hoped with Gravity being a heavier hitting ST set it might scrape ahead for damage on its own merits.

Crushing Field

Wanted to really explore the Font proc here, and see how many times I could get it going within the limitations of the duration. The biggest thing is keeping enemies alive long enough for it to work. Grabbing groups of 8-10, my highest successful count was 4 Fonts at a time, one per execution of the power. What's really great is that I didn't slot anything but procs and one other piece from the OP ATO for Acc/End, and it was going off enough that things were dying after 3-4 applications anyway.

Dimension Shift & Wormhole

With the ATO proc and Trap of the Hunter, we can get two damage procs into Dimension Shift with two triggers (once at activation, and once 10/s in), which is pretty decent if you're willing to drop the set there and dedicate six slots to DS. I know that ability is a hot button for a lot of people, but I personally find a lot of amusement in the idea of what it can do, which is also why I wanted to test something else out with it.

Wormhole a group into] Dimension Shift. I don't remember ever seeing anyone talk about doing or trying this, especially not in recent couple of months. I didn't see a reason why it couldn't, but I also understand why it wouldn't logistically. Dug around RWZ for two close-knit patches of enemies relatively tightly packed themselves, shifted one, and then spammed the other into it. And it worked. If I did it fast enough (before the 10/s trigger) I could also get that new group to feel the wrath of the Shift. What I don't know is whether there is an effective limitation for Dimension Shift in how many enemies it could potentially damage in one shot.

Also dropped FF+Rech into Wormhole and that thing fired off like a champ, effectively turning the recharge of Wormhole into something more like 24/s instead of 28/s.

Single Target Attacks

There's four ST attack options with Gravity, which is kind of a lot in a Controller set. I skipped Crush since it didn't have the same flex as animation/options the other three did (and just general space in the build). Lift and Gravity Distortion were the two strongest picks and obvious need-to-take powers, and Propel was mostly just a choice thing. Propel might not be the best choice in a Proc Monster though, it looks like. On its own in regular standard view, Propel was always that go-to ST hitter, but with 3-4 +Dam procs that can be loaded into each of the ST attacks, they can easily overshadow it by at least 10 damage per average activation. I looked back after the fact at Crush over Propel, and with 4x+Dam procs at 1.5/s for 108 damage vs. Propel at 2.2/s for 150, Crush is doing marginally better DPS (by about 4 pts), tightens the chain for Lift and GD, and a if I flip around some of the proc choices in Lift, we can toss Decimation +BU in there and run Redlynne's "Chuck lots of dice" manta in there and get the 2-3 chances to fire that per minute which'll net a marginal uptake for all three powers being able to go off in that window (Lift twice).

I know Propel is a fan-favorite, but Proc Monsters are hungry beasts, and I don't think it has a home with them.

Here is the tested build:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg(31), Apc-Dam%(34), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(37), GldJvl-Dam%(37)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(5), Prv-Absorb%(7)
Level 4: Gravity Distortion -- Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), GldJvl-Dam%(7), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(15), UnbCns-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(40)
Level 8: Propel -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(9), GldJvl-Dam%(11), ExpStr-Dam%(11), FrcFdb-Rechg%(13)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 12: Crushing Field -- SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Knock%(46), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(46), PstBls-Dam%(48), TraoftheH-Dam%(48), ImpSwf-Dam%(48)
Level 14: Dimension Shift -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(42), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(42)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- SprEnt-End/Rchg(A), NrnSht-Dam%(17), GldNet-Dam%(17), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(19), ImpSwf-Dam%(19), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(21)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(23), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 26: Wormhole -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(50), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Singularity -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(36), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(27), Mrc-Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1491;712;1424;HEX;|
		|78DA65944B4C13511486EF6DA7605B1E2D2D160A05296FDA4E5B3571A7890804A48|
		|404E2964C60804986B6990E46962E5CFA221A17261A8C12C4C4B55B4DDCA90BD76E|
		|0C1B5F08D195AB7A3AFF29907492E6EBFDCFFBDC697337AE34BC9EB87949C8C0A8A|
		|9954A0BA385BC6D154C53B7EA67347BDDD24C5179EAE9133FB655DDD4094BBB6ED8|
		|1BD573CF0997CBEBCBCBEABCB1A62FE4B4BC515C3735DB28E48393F955DDD2F3B65|
		|AFDE29F2D50A271D35859B59B9DEFD3BAB6A45BA555A3D8085BC564E4577CCE69AE|
		|A8EB4BD1B1A2B1A8CE5AC69A662E8C17AC45BD44654AB66E6DB451AB03F4B923053|
		|F658FC8B884C82AA22B09F664C15E15EC4B31936E874FC247B1424485A33D254D72|
		|3EF90D7EAEEFCC1FA0F293F90BACDB07EF52A09B63DD5BC857C7B51AD6A4C3A6319|
		|C9B26D14B789BF49822BCB47B8F53B8ECF6B4C2B76F0ABE83E3CCABE03D89ABAAD4|
		|A9DF511CEDD42E730FF4715DDF06D50951FD5BA8B745F37979666F0E75EE13FC9CC|
		|FDF81F8D405F8A76238A7DF609EF463C4A4B9EF4D42236295C65DD4ECDAE17E5F82|
		|C3DBCC57E033EAA119B37A9ADF217F4043BE00EFA785F7D5C275C2EFE117A4C183B|
		|CA720EF6938008E84986150926F88670DF1FDBA496B45BCAB358D5AA7B3CCB37CAF|
		|E413E11A11AED1C639DBB856946B3D20B473BE76DE7196EF209BC3F939CDDBC1F93|
		|A385F6790C9F9BA385F9C6AC7E02B63894ACF5E31C27C487A37DF53F701729FF9C3|
		|3C64FEE5777F94F91533BDA01EE28875C5DFE29DE8FDEC72F2F67AC827E615DBE4D|
		|3CF7DF6DF866D60468273E86F601EFC402143BCDBA10476FB91B404C7272E1214B7|
		|485619C13D26FFA19F4F0495E3558EF7D3EC19D6325FD07FA772E2375AA6A792A4A|
		|A94476AAC991A255BA39CAB51CED728D335CAAC72F4CF20A4A3780347BFF7F2BE8F|
		|ACF2A4F5E05871C91E4C1DBD86EDA5A688838AF85D137578AC48B9C9EFD32350891|
		|0602BFF07C9C1F4E5|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

And here is with Crush replacing Propel:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Dcm-Build%(34), GldJvl-Dam%(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(5), Prv-Absorb%(7)
Level 4: Gravity Distortion -- Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), GldJvl-Dam%(7), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(15), UnbCns-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(40)
Level 8: Crush -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), GldJvl-Dam%(9), Apc-Dam%(11), TraoftheH-Dam%(11), ImpSwf-Dam%(13)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 12: Crushing Field -- SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Knock%(46), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(46), PstBls-Dam%(48), TraoftheH-Dam%(48), ImpSwf-Dam%(48)
Level 14: Dimension Shift -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(42), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(42)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- SprEnt-End/Rchg(A), NrnSht-Dam%(17), GldNet-Dam%(17), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(19), ImpSwf-Dam%(19), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(21)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(23), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 26: Wormhole -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(50), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Singularity -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(36), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(27), Mrc-Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1491;720;1440;HEX;|
		|78DA65544B4C1351147D6F3A05DAF26969B15028D8F2A7D0523571A7890804A4840|
		|4E2964C60804986B6990E46962E5CA291685CF80B461BC4C4B55B4DDCA90BD76E8C|
		|1B7F08D195AB7A3BE716483A4973FACEBDF79C7BEFEB3473FD72FDABC91B1785F48|
		|F995AA1B03896CBDA56CE3475AB7656B3372CCD14E5A7963EF1E358252D396969D7|
		|0C7BB3728E9D48B9B4B1B2925C30D6F5C58C9635F21BA6661BB96C602ABBA65B7AD|
		|64E56BEF8E6722434611AAB6B7693F37D46D79675ABB066E41B102B878CECAAD739|
		|CDE7757D39329E3796927396B1AE998B13396B492F904DC1D6ADCD566AB58F3EB7A|
		|4E0A7E416BBAA10695574EE01630F89EE5745F7B0CB39F76C2A4204096F2ACEF971|
		|E8A856888870B827C449D693DF50A77C67FC01547F32FE02D6EC036F53A18B6B5D3|
		|BD0AB61EFFA75E960E338CE8D53E82154243EAA0A0FEDDEED18975CEE16E4F64C23|
		|B77F82F10A704BE2AACA3EB58FE053C77E75ECE74D43DFFB005AF5ECB343F379786|
		|64F06B13B043ED6F3B5637723E7513F12C539F51AFA29D64BB1DE3641036AD5863D|
		|7877EE72BF2F808345C697C0A7D44313667537BD85BE5F839E9FF7D3CCFB6A669FD|
		|03BE40568F000EF29C07B1AF40387828C21A0A4DC20CF1AE4FB7511D7827AA52505|
		|AF5369C6337CAF9413668F307BB4B2662B7B45D8EB2E411BEBB5F1EF2AFD15BDA63|
		|3383FA379DB59AF9DF53A028CACD7C97A71F28E22574613E59E3D6288F11EF15D7C|
		|4F5D07D03EFD87F190F12F3036C6F805333DA71EE2A855E26FF01E747F521CDD6E3|
		|7E5443DA24839BDDC67EF16627DB312388FFEFA1680EFA96480773B90C06E3F1097|
		|E0FAC40502D525862B18C63D0EFF433F1F09925C9FE47A1FCD3ECADCE867F4DFA19|
		|E78474BF494452A4C69A82A3A5AC5A4AB98B355CCB92A66A68A99538FFE19847418|
		|8FFFE87D2FED7B292A4F460F8E1945C63075E42AB637322D9D7FA6DF555587C78C9|
		|4DBFC7BBA0F54C3048895FE03C287F63B|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

And since it kinda feels like its just part of the process now:

End run was 7:34 which felt about as dumpster-driven as the final scene when the Pylon blew up.

Sadly I blame this circumstance on Time just not having a wide spectrum of strong debuffs. That's the trade off really for the level of Buff Boosting it can do for a wide group in one shot. I'd hoped Gravity would have more push from a damage perspective, but I guess it did marginally better than non-Enflame Rad/Time Defender did. Taking Dimension Shift out and trying to squeeze in Enflame could be possible but it'd cost Hover too, and 3% of the builds defense to peak Softcap. Not really worth it for an isolated scenario like a Pylon.

Upcoming Tests

That only really leaves Plant to test with Leviathan/Mace/Soul, and some feedback on Hot Feet/Consume from Fire along with build specs for Dark Control (since I already had that Live, I've already 'tested' it). Controllers are about wrapped up and then it'll be on to the next Proc-spective AT.

I'll leave this here for anyone interested, not necessarily a "Proc Monster" build, but a proc-bent Fire/FF/Flame build that I put together for myself (my OG 'Main'). It's a rare-sight build because it doesn't have Hasten.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), GldJvl-Dam%(7), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(19), UnbCns-Dam%(19)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Rgn-Knock%(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Rgn-Dmg(5), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(7), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(17)
Level 4: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(5)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(9)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- EndRdx-I(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(9), Erd-%Dam(11), ScrDrv-Dam%(45), Obl-%Dam(45), Arm-Dam%(46)
Level 10: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(11)
Level 12: Flashfire -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(15), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(37), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(39)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17)
Level 16: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 18: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def(23), RedFrt-EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27), GldArm-3defTpProc(37), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(39)
Level 24: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(25), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Rct-Def/Rchg(36), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 26: Bonfire -- RechRdx-I(A), Ann-ResDeb%(31), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(46)
Level 28: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(31)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Fire Ball -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(50)
Level 38: Fire Blast -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg(45), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Dam%(40), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 41: Force Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Victory Rush -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 47: Fire Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(48)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(31), Mrc-Rcvry+(36)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(43)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Rularuu Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1585;727;1454;HEX;|
		|78DA6594CB4F135114C6EFB4534A5FB4A550DE85167958FA1A20BA911005AA2824A|
		|CDC19526180496A4BA635D1B87281D1685CB86167627CA2892B9F7BFF07376E880B|
		|5752048D1A17F574BE5366924ED2FCEEFDCEFDEE39F79E992E5E9BF5BE3E7B735A4|
		|881997CAE545A9E2916CA7A319F5775C7626E5D5B11B5C749BF7E33525F94CA6ABA|
		|5A9FF458E267AEAEADA5B2457D455DCE6A6A7E35385FD85075B5504ED5079EA562C|
		|D9FD7D637CA7E63BCA0E65655BDB4A16DFA10AB85B4C2BAB71EDDA449706E535B41|
		|DAC55CA9ACEAD73BA9B434FDB624C14FD5211E111459D81E824D09BB41EF15C960E|
		|B1CE6ADF33683A74CAF10ED58738B20F17ED249ACB39D00E571B06902F44E82813E|
		|D9E01419EDF04AF648AD86262147508B8BEED22121E6E05CCD955A3D2E719BA64EC|
		|41CCEA830B4E669D4EADEA31CB47FE206F64908E8C929E49E269F8B73BA38A79B73|
		|DEA19887CFE279065FCB73E60BF0D80EF32538FC0A0C52BD3ED464F771BDBD59C47|
		|AE7C1C005D0436BFD7C8FFE2F7C67A405590B76A39ED3B44D88CF197263CF360FD3|
		|0B865BC0A81F8CFB40BB132DAA79DB7F226FF817D8FD87F997CF32CE67E9908CBB9|
		|3C9DBC1DE8E3DC43A2BCC7D70F0073872002A87E05DF275E11CF6AE31F426F28D3D|
		|5B36639EFC8AFE87284F0FF7B887FB18D9C17D8429D6C7B13EBE4FA50DBC47E8E73|
		|EF51F62FD408579C0DC07A333CC5DD4F08410636FEC0DEA38FE96F98EF91E8C7F00|
		|958FE063F20EB17728837D13097024090EA778AE8049FEA666A9E651EEEF6814FDB|
		|D4F9B8DB1363600ED292D4FF17B94E23EA5B97F69EE5FFA3728C24264D89FA9BF73|
		|B2E51BADD2536B685DA9C61BA29906456950261A94C90665A14159928FFE1984642|
		|8DFDDA448AC0CE2BC1553B3491771864894DF97F3341F91C59ED5370ADFBEA949D2|
		|36EE3AFE00EF972B70F4BF525D721B1519E34B9671CE32BE6C19FFA33B55B06FF57|
		|388C6ACC7DA4CFD5CBB39FE1433D76C5BD6FF07341E0308|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Edited August 20, 2019 by Sir Myshkin

Redlynne · August 20, 2019

24 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Dimension Shift & Wormhole

With the ATO proc and Trap of the Hunter, we can get two damage procs into Dimension Shift with two triggers (once at activation, and once 10/s in), which is pretty decent if you're willing to drop the set there and dedicate six slots to DS. I know that ability is a hot button for a lot of people, but I personally find a lot of amusement in the idea of what it can do, which is also why I wanted to test something else out with it.

Wormhole a group into] Dimension Shift. I don't remember ever seeing anyone talk about doing or trying this, especially not in recent couple of months. I didn't see a reason why it couldn't, but I also understand why it wouldn't logistically. Dug around RWZ for two close-knit patches of enemies relatively tightly packed themselves, shifted one, and then spammed the other into it. And it worked. If I did it fast enough (before the 10/s trigger) I could also get that new group to feel the wrath of the Shift. What I don't know is whether there is an effective limitation for Dimension Shift in how many enemies it could potentially damage in one shot.

Also dropped FF+Rech into Wormhole and that thing fired off like a champ, effectively turning the recharge of Wormhole into something more like 24/s instead of 28/s.

Okay, that's just whacktastically WILD ... turning the combo of those two powers into a doubled up smackeroonie like that. Incredibly slot hungry (you need +5 slots for each to do it right).

I'm kind of wondering about your order of operations for this, and whether it might have been a superior choice to Wormhole group 1 into group 2 and then Dimension Shift groups 1+2 combined, rather than Dimension Shifting group 2 and then Wormhole group 1 into group 2 in time for the 2nd damage proc from Dimension Shift to happen to all within the Dimension Shift field.

Also note that Dimension Shift will phase Allies within its radius, meaning that it will allow melee monsters to enter and smack around $Targets (who are also phased) within the radius of effect of Dimension Shift. This means that in group play, you could have an aggro magnet herd up a group, and your Controller uses Wormhole to port in a second group, and then cast Dimension Shift over the entire dogpile and the melee monsters wouldn't even notice any difference (aside from the lockdown of their $Targets). Ranged attackers would need to enter the Dimension Shift field to continue blasting away at the $Targets though.

33 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I looked back after the fact at Crush over Propel, and with 4x+Dam procs at 1.5/s for 108 damage vs. Propel at 2.2/s for 150, Crush is doing marginally better DPS (by about 4 pts), tightens the chain for Lift and GD, and a if I flip around some of the proc choices in Lift, we can toss Decimation +BU in there and run Redlynne's "Chuck lots of dice" manta in there and get the 2-3 chances to fire that per minute which'll net a marginal uptake for all three powers being able to go off in that window (Lift twice).

This kind of thing where you reach for the Decimation Build Up proc is best exploited in attack chains that feature an AoE attack as part of the rotation. If all you're doing is applying Build Up to single target attacks, the return on investment is comparable to what you'd get out of a damage proc, but not really all that much better. It's only when you can exploit the multiplicative factor of having an AoE attack against lots of $Targets that the Build Up proc pulls way out in front of the damage proc alternative option ... and even then, you need to be using fast animation speed attacks in order to have an attack chain that lets you use some 3-5 attacks in the duration of the Build Up buff after it procs to really squeeze the most advantage out of it (preferably by getting in 2 AoEs after the Build Up procs). So it's a little bit of a niche thing dependent upon the ... shape ... of the powers available for use.

Sir Myshkin · August 20, 2019

15 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I originally thought similar and I would agree about intuition if I were making a generalist controller. But, we are talking about proc focused builds. A proc outweighs a damage enhancement if it provides more avg damage boost to the power. Or if said proc has additional utility that may outweigh said damage enhancement in the overall build.

I do see where you're going with this in regards to your Plant/Poison specifically, and in some cases where the powers don't even originate their own damage outside of procs, I can see Nerve making sense, but I do want to mention the fact that--in general--even the AoE Immobs will still do a reasonable amount of damage comparatively, and consistently, under containment. Even with just one slot used towards Damage, that still doesn't compare to having at least Intuition in there to act as the thing that maximizes that potential, which is why I built so many builds around it. Maximize every avenue of potential damage, and a proc might do the potential of more damage, but consistent backbone damage over the execution of the power will outweigh that proc in most cases.

I haven't fully looked at Plant yet to see what you might be encountering and really seeing (for that set) what kind of balance is there, but it is something I can definitely look more closely at to see what the better average is in action versus probability.

15 hours ago, Frosticus said:

You don't need endurance slotting because a proc build uses ageless. And you don't need acc slotting because you use nerve. So any extra slot gets a +5 purple dam IO, or the next best thing for said power.

Generalist statement doesn't work. Might for your case, but not generally speaking.

Nerve needs a lot more than just itself to get your Accuracy up to levels warranting +3/4 content. Depending on the build there will be more out there, but that is something that has to be specifically looked at for each power because some are under weighted out of the gate.

Not every Proc build uses Ageless. In many of the cases that I've listed or "used" that power it was either out of convenience, or hardly used. In the case of the most recent test with Grav/Time, I didn't need Ageless. That build has a very long period it can run without needing endurance support, and it has Conserve Power which is actually sufficient to bring it back up to full and allow it to run another 3-4 minutes. I loaded up Ageless just out of preparedness more than necessity. Neither Time nor Dark need Ageless, and those are the two best-fit sets for Proc Builds.

Necessity Bear · August 20, 2019

I'm having naughty thoughts about a proc monster Tank. Im thinkin (off the top of my head) Bio/Stone?

Also, i just realised this is a thing:

On a successful hit, any tier 1 Tanker secondary power setattack will bruise an enemy target. This bruising effect causes a resistible 20% damage resistance debuff which lasts for 10 seconds.

Can we do Tanker testing next? 🙂

Sterling work so far lads. Well done!

Bopper · August 20, 2019

33 minutes ago, Necessity Bear said:

I'm having naughty thoughts about a proc monster Tank. Im thinkin (off the top of my head) Bio/Stone?

Also, i just realised this is a thing:

On a successful hit, any tier 1 Tanker secondary power setattack will bruise an enemy target. This bruising effect causes a resistible 20% damage resistance debuff which lasts for 10 seconds.

Can we do Tanker testing next? 🙂

Sterling work so far lads. Well done!

I also thought Tankers made sense for Proc Monster analysis. I was thinking Titan Weapons with the defense debuff and knockback procs with momentum improving cast times could lead to decent attack chains.

Hjarki · August 20, 2019

52 minutes ago, Necessity Bear said:

I'm having naughty thoughts about a proc monster Tank. Im thinkin (off the top of my head) Bio/Stone?

Also, i just realised this is a thing:

On a successful hit, any tier 1 Tanker secondary power setattack will bruise an enemy target. This bruising effect causes a resistible 20% damage resistance debuff which lasts for 10 seconds.

Can we do Tanker testing next? 🙂

Sterling work so far lads. Well done!

Stone is well-suited to a 'proc monster' build since it has every form of attack - melee, PBAoE, target AE, Ranged and Hold. It also has multiple knockback attacks for Force Feedback.

However, I'd say this value is limited by a few factors:

Titan Weapons. This set is so over-tuned that it's really hard to beat it. Since it already has the best procs (Force Feedback), eeking out a bit more dps from Unbreakable Constraint and Apocalypse probably isn't enough to bridge the divide.
Brutes/Scrappers. There is a relatively small damage disparity between Defenders and Corruptors that makes the defense vs. offense trade-offs involved in these proc discussions meaningful. However, the damage disparity between Brutes/Scrappers and Tankers is so enormous that it's tough to justify a Tanker build that isn't a 'pure' Tanker (i.e. built for raw defense). Unlike squishies, where you normally take a 'good enough' attitude and just soft-cap Ranged Defense, it's impossible to close every defensive hole for a Tanker and there's no accepted stopping point for 'enough defense'.

Frosticus · August 20, 2019

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I do see where you're going with this in regards to your Plant/Poison specifically, and in some cases where the powers don't even originate their own damage outside of procs, I can see Nerve making sense, but I do want to mention the fact that--in general--even the AoE Immobs will still do a reasonable amount of damage comparatively, and consistently, under containment. Even with just one slot used towards Damage, that still doesn't compare to having at least Intuition in there to act as the thing that maximizes that potential, which is why I built so many builds around it. Maximize every avenue of potential damage, and a proc might do the potential of more damage, but consistent backbone damage over the execution of the power will outweigh that proc in most cases.

I haven't fully looked at Plant yet to see what you might be encountering and really seeing (for that set) what kind of balance is there, but it is something I can definitely look more closely at to see what the better average is in action versus probability.

Generalist statement doesn't work. Might for your case, but not generally speaking.

Nerve needs a lot more than just itself to get your Accuracy up to levels warranting +3/4 content. Depending on the build there will be more out there, but that is something that has to be specifically looked at for each power because some are under weighted out of the gate.

Not every Proc build uses Ageless. In many of the cases that I've listed or "used" that power it was either out of convenience, or hardly used. In the case of the most recent test with Grav/Time, I didn't need Ageless. That build has a very long period it can run without needing endurance support, and it has Conserve Power which is actually sufficient to bring it back up to full and allow it to run another 3-4 minutes. I loaded up Ageless just out of preparedness more than necessity. Neither Time nor Dark need Ageless, and those are the two best-fit sets for Proc Builds.

Like I said above it isn't until the 3rd application of roots (1st uncontained, 2nd,3rd contained) where you see damage enhancements edge out procs. And roots is double the base damage of other immobs. +5 purple damage adds more damage enhancement than any combo of acc/dam/end IO's while still permitting the maximum number of procs possible.

Damage enhancements only outweigh a proc if they provide more avg damage than the proc. Otherwise you slot a proc. That is literally the exercise of maximizing a proc build. ideally you max out procs and damage enhancing, but imo the proc takes priority if the formula dictates it.

Ageless isn't a generalist statement, it is simply the most beneficial destiny slot to a proc focused build regardless of the endurance requirements because it also gives strong global recharge, which every proc build seeks. Every (proc) build has some powers that are more beneficial than others. you want them up as often as possible.

Nerve plus conservative IO bonuses gives you 75% global acc. Plus tactics, plus kismet. It is adequate in any power that has standard or above acc. It isn't for plant/poison specifically, but rather for any build that wants to squeeze in the most procs possible to become a proc monster.

But there is more than one way to skin a cat :)

Edited August 20, 2019 by Frosticus

Sir Myshkin · August 21, 2019

13 hours ago, Redlynne said:

I'm kind of wondering about your order of operations for this, and whether it might have been a superior choice to Wormhole group 1 into group 2 and then Dimension Shift groups 1+2 combined, rather than Dimension Shifting group 2 and then Wormhole group 1 into group 2 in time for the 2nd damage proc from Dimension Shift to happen to all within the Dimension Shift field.

My choice of one over the other first was purely to know it was possible. The biggest aspect about dealing with aggro control is knowing the limitations of your abilities and how to use them to diffuse a room effectively. If a Tank rolls in to a crowded space and the team is on top of him but gets over aggro, I can isolate the squad and instantly remove the outside threats from beyond the perimeter of Dimension Shift giving a reprieve against outside forces. Then I can follow that up with Wormhole to bring extra into the shift, with effective KB on entry, and let the team respond accordingly.

It was just to know it was--in fact--possible to do. Obviously if I were after the proc side of the equation, doing the reverse would be the most effective way to manipulate damage potential. Look at it from the reverse. Picture the same scenario as above, room over-clustered with mobs everywhere, Tank aggro-caps, what do we do? Wormhole one spawn into another, then Shift them collectively, removing them from concern instantly. By the time Dimension Shift fades, Wormhole will be nearly recharged and I can re-throw the whole cluster a second time if the team still isn't ready for them. Bonus points on the fact that Wormhole will proc FF+Rech again (most likely), and speed up Dimension Shift by a few more seconds meaning I'll probably only have a short 5-8/s delay to firing that power off again.

13 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Also note that Dimension Shift will phase Allies within its radius

Fully aware 🙂

13 hours ago, Redlynne said:

This kind of thing where you reach for the Decimation Build Up proc is best exploited in attack chains that feature an AoE attack as part of the rotation.

I did Napkin Math on it, and since there's not really another significant choice for a Proc between Lift and Crush, I looked at the one I was likely to be able to fire more randomly-rapidly, which was Lift, and put the Apocalypse in Crush. Adding another form of Damage into either ability doesn't net much gain based on what I've got it slotted with currently (talking 6-7 some odd points, 12-14 under containment). If Decimation were to go off, I have enough of a window to fire GD > Lift > Crush > Lift in its window (or Crushing Field in an AoE circumstance instead of Crush), getting that BU effect on four full attacks. In that window I'd see ~140 (contained) damage (ST). Or a DPS increase of ~5 for everything versus ~5 from only Lift. Decimation gives that ability to spike Crushing Field if it comes up, but it was practically a net wash.

Tried doing the math briefly Monday when I wrote the initial Test 3 post and figured for as much as I could spam Lift (about twice every 5.5/s, like 10-11 shots a minute max potential) that should be pretty reasonable opportunities if all I focused on was attacking. It's not, but, "maximum effort" and all. I mean, realistically I could just put Lift on Autofire and it'd cycle more than it would in an attack chain.

11 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Damage enhancements only outweigh a proc if they provide more avg damage than the proc. Otherwise you slot a proc. That is literally the exercise of maximizing a proc build. ideally you max out procs and damage enhancing, but imo the proc takes priority if the formula dictates it.

Crushing Field. Single Damage IO +5'd, 14.68 damage. Basic 3.5 Proc in that ability gives an average of +7. Intuition, +3, contained to +6. Statistically not going to hit every target, every time, no matter what. Somewhere in there you have the potential of never hitting one of those targets with a proc at all. Guaranteed damage versus the probability of damage. If 1 point was the difference between the two, guaranteed makes a lot more sense to me than probability, purely looking at the Alpha choice.

And still, that's not the only thing being impacted. Range, -Def, -ToHit, Hold Duration, Slow Movement that has a lot of rounded value in a ton of places for support roles. Like I said before, the circumstances you're experiencing with your specific build might warrant a slightly different path, and there is some flexibility in tailoring each build a bit differently. So far I've focused on generalizing the approach and haven't really min/maxed any of these to their fullest. Honestly in some of their cases they could be tailored a bit to eek out a bit more slot-based damage enhancement. Just looking at the Gravity/Time, a PB boosted Farsight actually far-oversights its accuracy. I could likely trade some of its ST slot choices a bit to push the attacks a few points each.

11 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Ageless isn't a generalist statement, it is simply the most beneficial destiny slot to a proc focused build regardless of the endurance requirements because it also gives strong global recharge, which every proc build seeks. Every (proc) build has some powers that are more beneficial than others. you want them up as often as possible.

Unfortunately the math doesn't necessarily support this. In the realm of packing high global recharge, unless there is a struggle to achieve it, Ageless is going to have less significant impact over its duration. Depending on the ability, and whether there's any inherent recharge already packed in, Ageless (at its fullest) may only shave 1-1.5/s off a high-base recharge ability. Mathematically speaking a build that can leverage a couple of FF+Rech procs will have better invested return than Ageless. I've proven that with Torrent on recycle with Tenebrous Tentacles. I managed to go a full 15/s at +100%. My limitation was the fact that the entire spawn died.

Initial spike on Ageless is 70%, falls to 30% in 10/s, then 20% in 30/s for a remaining 30/s, then 10/s for the last 60/s. Effectively that's something like 15-16% normalized over the lifespan of 120/s. Napkin Math. All of your sub-10/s recharge powers will see almost no impact from this, maybe .1-.2/s difference. Depending on the slotting for a higher base recharge ability, potentially 1-2, maybe 3-4/s net gain. Now I'm purely looking at a build that already nets 175-190% on its own. Something less than that, go for it, I'm not countering against that.

With as many builds as I have put together at this point, there are plenty of them that don't dramatically benefit from Ageless and could easily function without that Destiny if a player wanted to go a different route. I can't possibly sit here and tell every single player "This is the only way to play a Proc Monster." Cause it isn't, and shaving 1/s off of Distortion Field isn't going to suddenly make you a wickedly better Proc Monster over the player who didn't. And in many, many, many of the builds I've put together, the abilities that most benefit from Ageless aren't even proc-based powers (I'm looking at you, Chrono Shift).

In quite a few cases, Clarion is the choice that has to be argued because it is the one that gives many builds their status protection, which can be considered far more valuable than 1-2/s off any given power's recharge. You can't look at these builds as one-lane roads, they have to be built in a way that makes each build shine most effectively. If that involves Ageless, than great, but not all of them will, and nor should they.

12 hours ago, Frosticus said:

But there is more than one way to skin a cat 🙂

And that's the ultimate point 🙂

14 hours ago, Necessity Bear said:

Can we do Tanker testing next? 🙂

I was actually going to ask near the end of this what people would like to see next. Guess the people have spoken.

Redlynne · August 21, 2019

57 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I did Napkin Math on it, and since there's not really another significant choice for a Proc between Lift and Crush, I looked at the one I was likely to be able to fire more randomly-rapidly, which was Lift, and put the Apocalypse in Crush. Adding another form of Damage into either ability doesn't net much gain based on what I've got it slotted with currently (talking 6-7 some odd points, 12-14 under containment). If Decimation were to go off, I have enough of a window to fire GD > Lift > Crush > Lift in its window (or Crushing Field in an AoE circumstance instead of Crush), getting that BU effect on four full attacks. In that window I'd see ~140 (contained) damage (ST). Or a DPS increase of ~5 for everything versus ~5 from only Lift. Decimation gives that ability to spike Crushing Field if it comes up, but it was practically a net wash.

Soundly reasoned. Also you're right that Containment will lend an increased benefit to Build Up over a damage proc, since Containment will function akin to a Critical Strike (kinda) for double damage, while a damage proc under Containment wouldn't "proc twice" to deal double damage to a Contained target. And that's not even including the bonus damage delivered by Impact into the bargain (or at least, I'm not while hastily writing this).

So yeah, given the alternative choices, a good choice.

Frosticus · August 21, 2019

11 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

🙂

I think I see where the issue lies. We are talking about different things.

I'm talking about a ground up design centered around maximizing proc potential, whereas you are talking about squeezing in as many procs as are reasonable that don't require much build compromise.

Each dam proc in an aoe immob adds an avg of 9 (8.95) damage per target. They are probably the best example for a controller of slotting procs or dam enhance being a wash. You prefer to whittle. I prefer to burst, even if randomly. A "proc monster" would slot procs, are generalist build would slot dam. Or you could do what I do below and get the most out of the power.

A simple example is a power you want to put 5 procs in.

My method (nerve, ageless, +5 purple dam) gives the power

45% acc, 66% dam, 10% global rech (min) and 5 procs.

I can't find a more efficient path to maximizing said power. But i'm honestly asking for suggestions because procs are pretty fun and you keep telling me there is another way.

It isn't until I use 3 or less procs that other avenues start to outshine the method I'm employing (imo). But to me that isn't really a proc monster, but rather a build that uses procs.

Clarion is fantastic, but it doesn't benefit procs and controllers specifically have access to many other mez protection powers . Intuition is fantastic, but it doesn't benefit proc slotting as efficiently as nerve. Both clarion and intuition may result in a very well rounded build, but the topic you started is about proc monsters...

A build that focuses on procs as a priority usually gives up most 4-6 slot set bonuses. Those are most of the global rech bonuses. So the 20% global rech that ageless offers over its life is of pretty high value outside of a few builds that can really leverage forcefeedback (ie storm, which prob wants ageless anyway) to get powers like: hasten, fade, AM, overgrowth, etc etc. back up and closer to perma.

Still an interesting thread and i continue to seek performance gains and efficiencies :)

subbacultchas · August 21, 2019

On 8/18/2019 at 1:38 PM, Frosticus said:

I'm now trying out nerve alpha because it seems silly to waste slots on acc enhancements when you could put more procs into a power. Between nerve and set bonuses you shouldn't need acc slotting. Also boosts defense a bit saving more slots in the build for proc potential.

Not on my controllers, but on my corruptors I actually started using Vigor for the +heal/acc/endred. Admittedly the +heal is useless on some powers, but almost everything slots endred or accuracy and I find myself not having to slot much on the powers I proc (except some damage). So I've used that in a similar manner as what you're describing here, and I'm liking it.

I'm considering redoing my Plant/Dark with it, but it's tough. I need the extra +recharge in some of the dark powers, and not so much in the plant powers I want to put procs in. Decisions decisions..

Edited August 21, 2019 by subbacultchas

Sir Myshkin · August 22, 2019

13 hours ago, Frosticus said:

A simple example is a power you want to put 5 procs in.

My method (nerve, ageless, +5 purple dam) gives the power

45% acc, 66% dam, 10% global rech (min) and 5 procs.

I can't find a more efficient path to maximizing said power. But i'm honestly asking for suggestions because procs are pretty fun and you keep telling me there is another way.

Lets use Seismic Smash for this example from my Earth/Dark build.

132.4 Damage (w/o Procs, no containment, can't +5 the Superior WTO)
26.5% Acc
59.5% Dam
26.5% End
33.0% Hold
Superior BC Acc/Dam/End, and procs from these sets: Hecatomb, Ghost Widows Embrace, Gladiators Strike, Mako's Bite, and Touch of Death
Attack, with global bonuses and Tactics has 118% Acc against +4's.

That's how I posted slotting, using Intuition Radial in the given build. If I switch to your configuration (assuming Nerve Core):

137.8 Damage (w/o Procs, no containment)
45% Acc
66.25% Dam
33.0% Hold
Hecatomb Dam +5'd
Changing no other slotting, has 132% Acc against +4's

For 5 (10) points of damage, I get 4 points of endurance reduction per activation over your method of slotting. If I forgo the endurance aspect and use the Acc/Dam WTO I can get 137.7 damage. I am now on par with your choice. Technically Seismic Smash has a higher base accuracy, and if I rely on the build as it stands, I could just put a Heca Dam +5'd and get 163.4 and still be at 98% to +4.

I am also, with Intuition, gaining a boost to all my -ToHit debuffs in the Dark Miasma set, and a range extension on 90% of my build. With Nerve, the build would only see a marginal 2% Defense gain of minimal value. I would also loose the damage boosting of any pets I utilize by not taking Intuition, and there's already sufficient slotting for Accuracy (and Tactics stacking) to compensate Acc for the Pet(s). If I use Time Manipulation as a secondary for a Controller, I completely invalidate the need for Nerve at all with a considerable boost to ToHit from Farsight. I'd be better served looking at an alternative choice. Since a Time build can achieve 190% Global Recharge, and Softcap Defenses and a massive +ToHit boost, Nerve has no value and Intuition is the optimal choice. I could consider Agility to help fix the marginal error of Chrono Shift being 2-3/s off by fault, but a FF+Rech (if available) activating just once in 90/s will fix that gap on its own, so another reason to not need that Alpha either.

13 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Clarion is fantastic, but it doesn't benefit procs and controllers specifically have access to many other mez protection powers

A dead Controller can't proc, and there aren't that many mez protections, and both require a significant commitment to achieve, and neither one of them are capable of being Perma. Clarion is out-of-the-box best choice for mez protection, period. Not saying it has to be taken, but there are definite cases were Ageless has no intrinsic value any longer, as I already stated before, I'm not going to repeat that math again.

13 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Intuition is fantastic, but it doesn't benefit proc slotting as efficiently as nerve. Both clarion and intuition may result in a very well rounded build, but the topic you started is about proc monsters...

I've already demonstrated how you're incorrect in that regard, and in fact have the capacity to over-shoot your ability to stack damage into a power while maintaining appropriate accuracy levels without engaging Nerve. You must also take into account that Intuition Radial has a Defense Debuff modifier, and for appropriate sets, this too will help skew accuracy concerns in my favor for abilities that are enhanced by this. You have to play to the benefits of each combination, that's just a flat given.

13 hours ago, Frosticus said:

A build that focuses on procs as a priority usually gives up most 4-6 slot set bonuses. Those are most of the global rech bonuses. So the 20%* global rech that ageless offers over its life is of pretty high value outside of a few builds that can really leverage forcefeedback (ie storm, which prob wants ageless anyway) to get powers like: hasten, fade, AM, overgrowth, etc etc. back up and closer to perma.

I feel like you really missed a lot of the ground work laid out in the Defender version of this thread.

13 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I think I see where the issue lies. We are talking about different things.

I'm talking about a ground up design centered around maximizing proc potential, whereas you are talking about squeezing in as many procs as are reasonable that don't require much build compromise.

I'm going to be blunt on this one: You're just not listening to what I'm telling you. I've been, from the beginning, looking for maximum potential.

There are a lot of powers that do not have more than 2, 3, sometimes 4 procs available to them. The abilities that can actually get more than that actually ended up spiking into the 5-8 realm, but they're rare comparatively. You are trying to argue against a very niche subsection of powers and trying to redistribute an entire concept change based off those few, very limited abilities. I even outlined that fact at the beginning of this thread that some sets have more potential than others, and my focus has been primarily on those to find how to best utilize them, study what they can do, and return that relevant value back as knowledge to the community.

I'm all for others trying to explore different avenues and approaches and see what they come up with, but you cannot blanket-statement your choices and claim them to be the only one. You have no testing, no builds, no proof of any of this approach. I have the testing, the proof, and the builds to go off of. If you want to continue counter arguing, then show us.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Sir Myshkin

Sir Myshkin · August 22, 2019

Strap on your safety belts kids, I just broke a new record.

Test #4 Plant Control, Part A

I don't like Plant Control, it has too many options!

All I'm going to initially do here is drop a video for the funsies, since I'll be testing a couple more variant options.

Some highlights that will come in the Part B write up in a couple days:

You may notice a declaration of something unseen in any of the prior tested Proc Monster builds in this video.
Uncovered discrepancies between Mids and In-Game information.
An interesting function in Carrion Creepers I wasn't aware of.
The sacrifice needed to make Plant Control sing as a Proc Monster
The video was only sped up for the first few second. Once the Pylon is engage, that is real-time.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Sir Myshkin
fixed dead video link

Frosticus · August 22, 2019

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

show us.

Please don't be so asinine as to assume that you are the only testing these things. You are posting results and that is appreciated, but you don't get a special award beyond that. I also don't think I'm making blanket statments any more than you are. I'm simply saying as a base point nerve+ageless is better for a proc build than intuition+something else. Overall enhancement value in a power and global rech agree with me. There are some outlier builds that may be different.

I think you tried to cherry pick seismic, but it doesn't work out like you think.

Your seismic smash is literally outputting less than mine until you take my recommendation and put the purple IO in it. Which makes your acc garbage, but doesn't matter for siesmic because it is an outlier with acc of 1.2. You also conveniently forgot about the 10% (min) global rech of ageless in my method...ooops. One approach is unequivocally more optimal than the other for procs and overall output. Take a guess which one?

Try it out with a 5 proc fissure and see what happens...or any of the 90% plus powers that have standard or lower base acc.

You are also moving the goalposts with your clarion argument. Everyone knows mez protection is great. Maybe your build needs it, maybe it doesn't. Mez protection doesn't equate to procs any more than unlimited endurance does. You know what does equate to procs? global recharge. Regardless of whether you personally need it, the math, not your napkin math, indicates it is beneficial.

I personally don't care about the extra def debuff, tohit debuff or range. Nor would anyone who is seeking proc potential. At least the extra defense of nerve (approx 4% on my current char) is proactive rather than reactive, but neither matters for this discussion and only matters for one's specific build and content they play.

As for powers that only have 2 ish procs, well I'd personally just two slot those procs and move any extra slots that your methods require to elsewhere in the build to further maximize potential.

Look, like I said, you don't have a monopoly on testing things and I am genuinely interested in making build improvements. I don't think you share that interest because you are hand-waving away things like in your seismic example.

edit: it isnt how I personally slot seismic as I make sure it's internal rech is as close to 14 sec as possible (16 currently).

love the creepers

Edited August 22, 2019 by Frosticus

amendara · August 22, 2019

How are you guys watching the video? Im getting a message it was removed from youtube.

subbacultchas · August 22, 2019

1 minute ago, amendara said:

How are you guys watching the video? Im getting a message it was removed from youtube.

Same here. And I need to watch it since I'm revamping my Plant/Dark/Earth.

Frosticus · August 22, 2019

1 hour ago, amendara said:

How are you guys watching the video? Im getting a message it was removed from youtube.

Apologies. I loaded it and commented before actually watching because I knew it would be a gooder if his creepers do what mine do 🙂

creepers are ...impressive.

subbacultchas · August 22, 2019

How are yall currently slotting them? I plan on redoing mine this weekend, but haven't decided on what exactly. I figured cap damage or close, then proc the rest and let global recharge take care of the cooldown.

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Sign In

Proc Monsters - Controller Edition

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in