Pylon Damage Thread

[Sovera]

22 hours ago, Microcosm said:

It seems to vary quite a bit by set is the thing. Anecdotally, it fired maybe twice each run for that staff stalker, but it fires super frequently for the db one I tested a long time ago. Similarly, ice seems to rarely fire it, but savage gets an ok rate. I haven't run thousands of tests, but that is the trend I've noticed. It could also just have to do with the chains used and frequency of attacks if it's a flat % per attack to fire for all attacks. So a very quick animating set might get more uptime.

It's still a 5% chance. Of course that on AoEs it actually turns Stalkers into blenders (if we disregard farming where people chug reds to be at the damage cap when possible) but on ST 5% sed 5%. This was my experience with the proc as well but I only played Ice and Staff which you did point as being lowballers. Could you actually try to run a five minute run and see how many procs you get on DB?

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

It's still a 5% chance. Of course that on AoEs it actually turns Stalkers into blenders (if we disregard farming where people chug reds to be at the damage cap when possible) but on ST 5% sed 5%. This was my experience with the proc as well but I only played Ice and Staff which you did point as being lowballers. Could you actually try to run a five minute run and see how many procs you get on DB?

ya i think 5% is so low that a good run becomes very noticeable. Last night it proc'd a LOT in a single AV encounter. To the point I thought the newest patch changed it. Then the next AV I don't think it went off a single time.

 

If it were possible I'd vote for it to be increased to 10% on single target attacks and lowered to 3-4% on aoe's. Many stalkers have limited aoes. I thought the proc was bordering on junk on my nin/bio, but I love it on my aoe-centric savage stalkers. 

[Microcosm]

Right, if it's a flat 5% per attack then sets with fast activating attacks get more chances to proc within x seconds than other sets, like the way procs worked before ppm. I'd have to rebuild that db stalker as he was on a previous version of test, but I'll probably get around to it.

[Microcosm]

KM/DA Scrapper, T4 Musc Core, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degen Core, T4 Pyronic Core, T4 Assualt Core (not toggled)

Using FB>SB>BB with some proccing

3:53 292

3:40 302

 

Then I switched the build to use Moonbeam as well, figuring it would benefit a lot from the long-term +damage from power siphon.

3:27 313

4:23 (?) 274

 

I don't know if that's a good showing. It's lower than the stuff I generally do, but I think KM is usually pretty low on the damage and DA isn't doing much to boost its damage output. It's fairly survivable unless there's a ton of energy damage floating around though.

[Sir Myshkin]

13 hours ago, Microcosm said:

I don't know if that's a good showing. It's lower than the stuff I generally do, but I think KM is usually pretty low on the damage and DA isn't doing much to boost its damage output

If you're using Focused Burst in a primary chain, that's the sets worst ST attack. You'd get more mileage out of QS>SB>BB and be able to take better advantage of how Power Siphon's stacking sets up. Even if you happened to take Concentrated Strike, the T1/2/3 chain is comparable close to the same damage potential (within 10-20 DPS) depending on how misses stack up with CS.

[Microcosm]

57 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

If you're using Focused Burst in a primary chain, that's the sets worst ST attack. You'd get more mileage out of QS>SB>BB and be able to take better advantage of how Power Siphon's stacking sets up. Even if you happened to take Concentrated Strike, the T1/2/3 chain is comparable close to the same damage potential (within 10-20 DPS) depending on how misses stack up with CS.

Thanks. I was using Focused Burst to get the other purple proc and buildup proc in there, but I can reconsider that now that I'm using moonbeam.

[Microcosm]

Revisiting a proc warshade, with a new build leveraging Weaken Resolve I hit 246. This is without the pets and without enemy fodder for sunless mire. I have been toying with getting enemy fodder like dm/sd scrappers used to do so I can actually use sunless mire (would be about 100% damage buff fully saturated accounting for misses). I have a hard time finding enough Chief Soldiers, and when I do find some I tend to also get Chief Mesmerists, which in turn means I have to use Clarion instead of Ageless which hurts my attack chain too much. I seem to always miss killing a Mesmerist when trying to clean the groups, and they'll sit at range hitting me with -rech in their psi attacks while I attack the pylon... If I try fodder that is not a 54 Chief Soldier, they die too quickly to mire and orbiting death. If I can figure that out though, I'm hoping to get somewhere closer to the 300 mark.

 

Edit: I changed the build around a bit and forced in the pets with Barrier core and the two +def pet uniques. I also added burnout + one blue insp after burnout so I could summon one extra pet (warshade pets are recharge based and expire) when I summoned the last one before heading over to the pylon. With all the pets actually surviving now and benefiting from weaken resolve I hit 2:04 for 437 dps. For comparison, I also did one before that without the Burnout trick and got 322.5, which is still a massive increase from petless. In the regular game you could definitely do this for an AV, but if the AV survives much longer than the pylon your dps would start to drop back down to the 246 range as the pets die off. You would also need to use Break Frees if there was mez involved, since Barrier replaces Clarion.

Incarnates for the final version are Barrier Core T4, Musc Core T4, Degen Core T4, Pyronic Core T4, Assault Core T4 (not toggled).

Edited February 24, 2020 by Microcosm

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

I think I have doe this right ... no 100% sure 

 

• 1st run: 3:17 (197) = 322 DPS
• 2nd run: 3:09 (189) = 330 DPS

 

 

I think (can anyone check my math isnt brain dead (Would this example math be correct? Time 3:17 (197 seconds) = 322 DPS?)

Toon: MA/SR scrapper - attack chain CAK > SC > CS > CAK

Incarnates:

• Alpha: Musc T4 Radial
• Judgement: Ion T4 Core
• Interface: Reactive T3 Core
• Hybrid: Assault  T3 Core
• (Destiny and Lore unused)

 

 

Is this good? Seems slow compared to other sets ... and MA is meant to be good at ST 😐

 

My build if anyone is curious at all

*note Mids doesnt allow for the Achillie's Heel -res proc to go in CAK but its there in game. Probably makes a decent difference against a ST like a Pylon

 

Spoiler

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Edited February 27, 2020 by Duck-Smokes-Quack

[Haijinx]

28 minutes ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

I think I have doe this right ... no 100% sure 

 

• 1st run: 3:17 (197) = 322 DPS
• 2nd run: 3:09 (189) = 330 DPS

 

 

I think (can anyone check my math isnt brain dead (Would this example math be correct? Time 3:17 (197 seconds) = 322 DPS?)

Toon: MA/SR scrapper - attack chain CAK > SC > CS > CAK

Incarnates:

• Alpha: Musc T4 Radial
• Judgement: Ion T4 Core
• Interface: Reactive T3 Core
• Hybrid: Assault  T3 Core
• (Destiny and Lore unused)

 

 

Is this good? Seems slow compared to other sets ... and MA is meant to be good at ST 😐

 

My build if anyone is curious at all

*note Mids doesnt allow for the Achillie's Heel -res proc to go in CAK but its there in game. Probably makes a decent difference against a ST like a Pylon

 

  Reveal hidden contents

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		|88|
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Since its SR and not BIO, that is pretty good though.

 

Most of the big ones are Bio.

[nihilii]

1 hour ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

*note Mids doesnt allow for the Achillie's Heel -res proc to go in CAK but its there in game. Probably makes a decent difference against a ST like a Pylon

Wait... what? Is this a recent fix? I could swear I tried to stick it in there a few months back and it didn't work!

[Microcosm]

1 hour ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

I think I have doe this right ... no 100% sure 

 

• 1st run: 3:17 (197) = 322 DPS
• 2nd run: 3:09 (189) = 330 DPS

 

 

I think (can anyone check my math isnt brain dead (Would this example math be correct? Time 3:17 (197 seconds) = 322 DPS?)

Toon: MA/SR scrapper - attack chain CAK > SC > CS > CAK

Incarnates:

• Alpha: Musc T4 Radial
• Judgement: Ion T4 Core
• Interface: Reactive T3 Core
• Hybrid: Assault  T3 Core
• (Destiny and Lore unused)

 

 

Is this good? Seems slow compared to other sets ... and MA is meant to be good at ST 😐

 

My build if anyone is curious at all

*note Mids doesnt allow for the Achillie's Heel -res proc to go in CAK but its there in game. Probably makes a decent difference against a ST like a Pylon

 

  Reveal hidden contents

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Math's right on the 3:17

Getting above 300 used to be a huge deal, so I wouldn't say it's bad.

🙂

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

41 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Wait... what? Is this a recent fix? I could swear I tried to stick it in there a few months back and it didn't work!

No idea. I think I was looking in game at where to put damage procs and noticed that CAK listed "DeffDebff" so i tried to bang a DefDebuff IO in there and it worked ... straight to the AH to grab the Achilee's Heel proc! 
 

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Since its SR and not BIO, that is pretty good though.

 

Most of the big ones are Bio.

True. Would be nice if there was some sort of Google Form maybe for people to submit their best times. That way we could collate loads of data and people would know if they were doing good DPS vs others with the same powers.

As you an /SR comparing to /Bio is not a useful comparisson

 

16 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

Math's right on the 3:17

Getting above 300 used to be a huge deal, so I wouldn't say it's bad.

🙂

Good to know! I never took part in the original forums Pylon thread so don't really know what the benchmark is.

Still kind feels bad to see TW/Bio do it 1/2 the time but thats the nature of the game. My main concerns are:

• How am I doing against other 'normal' sets (not the FOTM OP outliers)
• How am I doing against other people with the same sets (for me I'm most interested in MA/ performance (but MA/ seems to be very unpopular)

[Sir Myshkin]

6 hours ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Would be nice if there was some sort of Google Form maybe for people to submit their best times.

See my signature. Regrettably the Google submission method seems to be buggy and any time I edit it, something else disappears (currently missing a melee set, and it won't let me edit the form properly to add it back in). I've been (albeit slowly) looking for an alternative.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

4 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

See my signature. Regrettably the Google submission method seems to be buggy and any time I edit it, something else disappears (currently missing a melee set, and it won't let me edit the form properly to add it back in). I've been (albeit slowly) looking for an alternative.

The melee set thats missing appears to be Martial Arts (which also happens to be the set I want to submit 😭)


Great work though! Thats the sort of thing I was thinking in my head would be great! (The layout is a little clunky though - for example you could have the AT question take you to a section that only had the appropriate sets listed. It would be a bit fiddly and take a bit of work but can be done, I am happy to help if you wish and are struggling to find the time)

[nihilii]

2 quick runs on my MA/SD (MANY thanks to @Duck-Smokes-Quack)

 

Musc T3, Degen T3, Assault T3

EC -> SK -> CAK -> SK. BU replaces the second Storm Kick whenever up

Critical Strikes set in EC
Heca + ToD proc in SK
Achilles Heel + ToD proc + Mako proc in CAK

Gaussian in BU

 

Hybrid active

1:47 = 486 DPS

without Hybrid

2:17 = 407 DPS (got KBed once due to forgetting Active Defense)

Superb damage, by my standards anyway, for a relatively light on procs build that doesn't have to use Ageless. 🙂

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

3 minutes ago, nihilii said:

2 quick runs on my MA/SD (MANY thanks to @Duck-Smokes-Quack)

 

Musc T3, Degen T3, Assault T3

EC -> SK -> CAK -> SK. BU replaces the second Storm Kick whenever up

Critical Strikes set in EC
Heca + ToD proc in SK
Achilles Heel + ToD proc + Mako proc in CAK

Gaussian in BU

 

Hybrid active

1:47 = 486 DPS

without Hybrid

2:17 = 407 DPS (got KBed once due to forgetting Active Defense)

Superb damage, by my standards anyway, for a relatively light on procs build that doesn't have to use Ageless. 🙂

Damn! Thats way faster than what I got ....

Maybe the changes to EC have legit changed the best MA/DPS chain (an earlier post way back on page 9 by Kaeladin seemed to also suggest the same thing)

So you didnt even use Sheild Charge? Just EC>SK>CAK>SK 
(Did you use judgement at all?)


The time is just so much quicker - I am going to have to do some testing!

• Im going to test some different attack chains
• I wonder how much your double damage proc in CAK and damage proc in SK helps (would be really interested to see your build actually)
• Finally depending on the above results I will look and see how much the incarnates affected things 

[nihilii]

You're right, I didn't use Shield Charge (or Judgement). I don't think either is good DPS compared to MA attacks.

Eagle's Claw works well with the Critical Strikes proc, the lengthy animation + base recharge almost guarantees the proc will go off. Coupled with EC's bonus crit, that means your Storm Kick will almost always crit and your CAK has a high chance to crit as well.

It doesn't play as well in regular gameplay, simply because whenever you kill something with EC, your special crit buff might be consumed by the time you switch targets.

(On the flipside, reliable Critical Strikes-fueled Dragon's Tail is delicious.)

MA/SD build below:

 

Spoiler

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Edited February 28, 2020 by nihilii

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Hybrid active

1:47 = 486 DPS

without Hybrid

2:17 = 407 DPS (got KBed once due to forgetting Active Defense)

I cannot get ANYWHERE near your times ... like not even close.

You are MA/SD and I am MA/SR - but since you arent even using SC in your rotation, for this test both secondaries are basically identical since we both have clicky mez and thats about it

Your times are faster even than the afformentioed testing done by @Kaeladin (back on page 9) with MA/Bio ... and /Bio as we all know is a top *cough OP cough* performer.
Something must be going on here and I suggest it must be one of the following:
 

• Your time/math is wrong (least likely since I certainly don't think you are dumb)
• Something about using Superior Critical Strikes in EC is an undiscovered gem of game mechanics
• Our choice of Interface incarnates. I am using Reactive T3 (-res) whilst you are using Degenerative T3 (-hp) [My personal bet is that this is whats causing the huge numbers gap]
   
• Alternativly its something do with me. Maybe my build is just trash 😋 or maybe its because I am from the UK playing on a US server. Perhaps I am only attacking at 2/3 speed or something from a server side perspective? Like rubberbanding but less obvious when your standing completley still?

 

 

I am going to craft up Degenerative now and let you know the results

(Question were you using Core or Radial for Interface?)

-UPDATE-

Just ran 3 x quick tests with Interface: Degenerative Partial Core Conversion T3

1. 2:51 - 352 DPS
2. 3:14 - 325 DPS
3. 3:51 - 293 DPS

Strange bucnh of results. I got my best ever time and worst ever time with Degenerative by some distance. Not sure how to interperate this one, maybe I dont even enough data. 
Seems odd to me. Still nowhere near your times ...

Next I will try munching reds to bring my Dam bonus from 14% to closer to 35% to be in line with you and see what results i get

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Duck-Smokes-Quack

[Haijinx]

SD gets a damage bonus that SR doesn't 

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

SD gets a damage bonus that SR doesn't 

True ... I did forget about this *doh*

 

Even so against 1 target if you look at our builds its showing as difference in Mids 20% Dam (14% vs 34.9% dam buff)

The difference in times is 47% comparing out 2 x best posted runs (I am assuming he isnt saturating the pylon with other trash mobs? I guess its not against the "rules" otherwise Dark melee would be in deep trouble)


Well assuming its just him vs the pylon, where is that extra 27% damage coming from ... im determined to find out 😁

Edited February 28, 2020 by Duck-Smokes-Quack

[nihilii]

27 minutes ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Your times are faster even than the afformentioed testing done by @Kaeladin (back on page 9) with MA/Bio ... and /Bio as we all know is a top *cough OP cough* performer.
Something must be going on here and I suggest it must be one of the following:

Maybe memory fails me but I could swear I tried to stick the Achilles' Heel proc a few months back in CAK and it didn't work.

 

(And even if there was no such change, it's possible Kaeladin made the same mistake as I did based on Mids, and didn't slot the -res proc.)

 

This alone makes a huge difference in damage. The proc is basically perma on this attack chain.

I'm not using AAO fodder for Pylon tests.

32 minutes ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Our choice of Interface incarnates. I am using Reactive T3 (-res) whilst you are using Degenerative T3 (-hp) [My personal bet is that this is whats causing the huge numbers gap]

I believe the math was done on the old forums and conclusively proved Degen is superior. Not by much but still. I use the -75% maxHP no dot Degen, I don't recall the name.

34 minutes ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

maybe its because I am from the UK playing on a US server. Perhaps I am only attacking at 2/3 speed or something from a server side perspective? Like rubberbanding but less obvious when your standing completley still?

I'm from the EU as well (160ms ping on netgraph, used to be 220ms), and in my experience we have to queue attacks well in advance if we want the server to actually register them on time.

Perhaps you're already doing this, but just to be sure: while your character is doing Eagle's Claw you should already have pressed Storm Kick, while your character is doing Storm Kick you should already press CAK, and so on. Without doing this, subsecond delays stack fast and wreck DPS.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

31 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I'm not using AAO fodder for Pylon tests.

Yeah I didnt really think you were honestly.
 

 

31 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Maybe memory fails me but I could swear I tried to stick the Achilles' Heel proc a few months back in CAK and it didn't work.

 

(And even if there was no such change, it's possible Kaeladin made the same mistake as I did based on Mids, and didn't slot the -res proc.)

 

This alone makes a huge difference in damage. The proc is basically perma on this attack chain.

Yeah I expect he didn't know about it which may have saved a little bit of his time buts yours would still be ahead even if we were generous and just took a flat 20% of his time.

 

34 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I believe the math was done on the old forums and conclusively proved Degen is superior. Not by much but still. I use the -75% maxHP no dot Degen, I don't recall the name.

Really? Ok that another bit of info I wasnt aware of. I was using the -50%HP 25%DoT so some minor varience there too.

 

38 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I'm from the EU as well (160ms ping on netgraph, used to be 220ms), and in my experience we have to queue attacks well in advance if we want the server to actually register them on time.

Yeah I do this too. OK so at least we can rule network issues out 

 

The chain I was using was CAK>SC>CS>SC 

Since my EC holds the passive +Crit% chance and my SC holds the active Critical Strike change (I am starting to think more and more its the location of the 50% critical hit chance proc that its main cause for gap but havent proved it yet)


Just about to test keeping 1 red insp live at all times to try and rule out the bonus you get from AAO as the main cause

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

19 minutes ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

Just about to test keeping 1 red insp live at all times to try and rule out the bonus you get from AAO as the main cause

Ok just managed to get a new PB

• 2:40 (140 seconds) = 401 DPS!

Fantastic, I broke the 400DPS mark on a MA/SR of all things! I should be ecstatic! ... and yet, knowing I am still close to a minute behind your fastest time (and still slower than one of your times where you didnt use Hybrid and got KBed! is driving me mad ....)


What on earth is causing this difference? 

• Its not the damage bonus from AAO since you arent saturating with minions and I tested by poping small reds to compensate. It did reduce my PB by just over 10seconds but it is not the sole cause for the gap
• Its the incarnates we are using. I swapped Degenerative on your recommendation (thanks!) and this also improved by time
• There IS a difference in our attack chain (Me: CAK>SK>CS>SK /vs/  You: EC>SK>CAK>SCK All previous data seems to indicate that CAK>SK>CS>SK is the optimal ST DPS chain for MA/. However I wonder now if this it outdated info. The Scrapper ATOs + the 33% Crit added to EC close to shutdown may have shifted the balance of power ... these results certainly seem to indicate that might be so ....
  
  My 50% crit proc is slotted in SK vs yours in EC ... I also notice that my SK seems to miss a lot ... I am also not that clear on exactly how PPM works etc ... hmmmm
  
  I wonder if anyone has any ideas to why there is a full min between our times (is there a test server that still exists where I can play about? Or do I have to edit my live toon ... which i really dont want to do atm 😋)

[oldskool]

Those MA numbers!!! 

[Coyote]

Check out the Bug Forum for a report I put up about Degenerative Interface. There is something buggy with it, and it's likely skewing any Pylon results for characters using it. I haven't had time to test it out with Brawl/Boxing to figure out the exact details, and a Scrapper isn't putting out 14 different sources of damage like my Ill/Storm, so it's not going to be as ridiculous as it is for me, but it's still likely making a big difference.